I think mythology can help us here. In greek mythology Cronos/Kronos had the nerve to eat his brothers, cause the prophecy said the one of them will down-grade and overcome him, like he did to his father Uranus.
Cronos is Saturn... so a really bad Saturn could be a planet of cannibalism. ( also there is the uranian Kronos that might help too. )
I never had an example of cannibalism in any chart, Saturn would be the most apropiate for me, they could be more planets, like Neptune, and even Mars, Uranus and Pluto ... maybe south node, lilith, and priapus around too.
When I say bad I meant like: badly placed, bad aspects, bad dispositors, ruling certain negative cusps ( 8th, house of death for example, 12th house of subconcious or long diseases, 6th house of acute diseases, 4th house the house of inner fantasies... ) etc.
BUT... even the most badly placed planets I have seen, no one indicated cannibalism to be honest.
The result would be something to do whit a conjunction whit a certain fixed star like these for example:
Aldebaran 09gem47 Saturn
Dschubba 02sag34 Saturn
Here are some links whit some really bad conjunctions:
I couldn't find J.D.'s chart, but I did find some interesting stuff on astrodatabank.com about serial killers. They said that a high percentage of serial killers have moon in sag, sun in gem, and neptune retrograde. Though the killer wouldn't necesarrialy have all of those placements in his or her chart. Moon in Scorpio only popped up 8% of the time with very few fixed moons showing up. They also commented on mercury being heavily placed in the charts. L.
Hi Lilllybelle & Indigo, I also tried to find something on J.D and found at least his date of birth: May 21 1960 in Milwaukee, Murdered on 28 November 1994 in Jail. Let's see if there are bad Saturn aspects.(maybe in connection with the Moon = Food???)
Well, will you believe it, HE HAS A MOON SQUARE SATURN so maybe there is something to it? Interesting is the fact that he has 4 planets dignified, Saturn in Cap., Mars in Aries and Venus in Taurus and ruler of the Sun Mercury in it's own sign, amazing. Then a bit of a nasty Sun-Mercury conjunction square to Pluto and Venus Square Uranus and an exact square between his Mars and Jupiter, extreme violence (cutting!).
Thanks Starlink and Lillybelle about J.D ... il try to give it a shot myself, to see if there is something about him.
Lot's of people in this world have these aspects. So there must be something more powerfull in his chart to show cannibalism.
I have taken your data's about him, but no birth hour so I use Null House System ( no house cusp ).
The most powerfull thing I had seen about the cannibalism disposition, is about the Sun conjuncting fixed star Alcyone.
Alcyone is a unfortunate star, having the influence according to Ptolemy as Moon-Mars, and can usualy give disgrace and evil tendicies if whit Sun, while Mars and Moon bieng badly placed. So it's best to check these planets.
Moon ( detriment in Aries ) squares Saturn... that's strong indicator of cannibalism ( because of Alcyone's influences too ). Mars conjuncts Algenib ( unfortunate, Mars-Mercury by Ptolemy) . Mars is in Aries conjuncting this star is to much fire and can lead to excess of violence. Mercury is quite evil too, cause Sun whit Alcyone is conjuncting Mercury also.
And as final I said in a earlier reply that the uranian Kronos can show cannibalism too... and HEY, here you are!! strangely Kronos has a tight conjunction whit the Sun, Alcyone and Mercury.
The four planets in dignity can show certain things... No matter how good or evil you are :0: ... these four makes it certainly more powerfull than usual.
I wanted to mention one more thing about J.D.'s chart. Over on astrodatabank they gave some astrologers the charts of a few different famous people. The astrologers were able to pick out Madonna and Hugh Hefners's chart, but they were not able to pick out J.D.'s chart. Many of them commented that his chart was not what they expected of a serial killer/cannabilist. L.
Look where his Mars in Aries is placed, in the 6th house of work/daily duties - Daily use of sharp instruments cutting heads/and other physical parts of the body. (all ruled by Aries) (Jupiter square exaggerates this placement.) Mars is also quincunx Pluto. Physical murder.
Venus in Taurus - rules the senses of taste and places to eat. In the 8th house - the dead. He likes to murder his food.
Dahmer was abused as a child himself, Neptune/Scorpio/1st house Venus/Taurus/8th
But of course other people will have these placements and not eat people. Dahmer is an evil soul manifesting the energy in this way perhaps.
21st May 1960, 4.43pm, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (87-W-54 / 47-N-02).
Asc. Libra 21.11
I can't give you the sources but I have revised the internet time and again for this data, and this birth time consistently appears and I believe it must be correct. It obviously isn't a rounded off time, so I suspect it must be an accurate record from a birth certificate. In fact, Dahmer's birth certificate can be viewed online, but not close enough to see any recording of time.
Noel Tyl gives the time of 3.35pm for Dahmer, but I find this odd in light of several sources contradicting this and all stating the same time. I feel that this is a rectification in order to put Mars right upon the descendant, probably because the rectifier desires this to reflect violence toward others, but astrology can and does, speak with a much subtler tongue than this.
The 4.43pm time puts the Moon on the descendant, where I think it belongs.
This post took my interest as I have actually dragged this chart out to attempt interpreting it again. I will post forth with my findings, but in a separate thread, as I think this individual is so interesting that the nativity deserves a topic of it's own. There have been many occasions in the past I have looked at this chart, and then put it away again without writing anything down, but my interest has piqued lately (my Sun is conjoined exactly with Dahmers NN, and this is stimulated by the transitting SN). I see a lot of interesting things in this chart reflecting upon who he was and what he did.
About cannabilism in nativities: I'm not actually sure this is a good, clear thing to look for in a natal chart. For example, Dahmer was a cannibal as a by-product of his necrophilia which in turn came about as a result of his killing. His primary motivation was not to go out and seek a victim to eat, but to seek a cadaver to play with, so it is this tendancy that should be looked for first. His motivation was not cannibalism, but, as with nearly every serial killer, his primary stimulus was sexual excitement. He ate parts of his victims bodies because he might as well have done, and you begin to run out storage space for corpses in a very small apartment, and if you're demented enough to kill people for sexual kicks, then you might as well save on the shopping bill.
Dahmer's image as a cannibal has also been sensationalised by the media over the fact that he was a necrophile and his motivation was sexual and not gastronomical.
Another important point to make is that the tendancy to anthropophagy resides in all of us. If you put us all in a room and starved us, it wouldn't be long before some would begin to feed upon other's in desperation. The vast majority of reported cases of cannibalism occur in circumstances of extreme hunger, and usually, when the victim is already deceased. In a case such as this, we aren't looking for what makes the ravenous native a cannibal, but rather, what is reflected in the nativity that would outline the probability of circumstances arising in which cannabilism might prove to be necessary. The same can be said with Dahmer's chart, cannibalism is the wrong thing to look for, what needs to be explored is the potential for the circumstances to arise in which cannibalism is likely to occur and why this might be.
In short, the question is not, what made Dahmer eat the people he killed, but what influences outlined the potential motivation to kill in the first place, because had he not been a killer, it is very doubtful he would ever have been a cannibal.
Wow this is a hard topic to figure out....I mean, how many of us know anyone who is a cannibal? (Or admits it anyway lol)
Is cannibalism only the desire to eat other human's body/skin just to be cruel?
Some people really like eating the skin around their nails & toes, but not so much as to hurt themselves, or bite their lips/inside cheeks till they bleed...and I think everyone gets some weird pleasure from peeling skin off after a bad sunburn. LoL
I saw a documentary about modern day "Vampires", they paid donors for disease free blood so they could drink it at parties.
Would those be more a habit to calm nerves during stress?
Or OCD? Maybe lack of iron?
He was not. One of the most puzzling things about Damher is that he had an idyllic upbringing in a loving family, and never experienced any abuse.
The general profile of the serial killer usually identifies him as having suffered cruel and unusual abuses during childhood, but every killer always falls outside of the profile in some way, and in Dahmer's case, this is it.
Well his sexual pleasure out of eating flesh can clearly be seen by the 8th house cusp in Tau (the physical) and venus in tau in the 8th.
He was seen as certainly as an abberation by society, ura in 10th and obsessive-sexual - pluto in 11th
Also note that NN is in 12th - secrets, maybe also he was very analytical with his secrets. Covered them up well or something. But I think he was caught out be doing it too much - mars squ jupiter.
On rough calculations, I wonder if nep opposing his sun-moon midpoint has something to do with it as well. As well as a wide opposition between nep and venus-mars (7 degrees, too wide) and trine from pluto.
I would definitely agree with draco that Mars should not be in the 7th house as this just makes for easy interpretation like draco said to interpret it as violence to others. The Mars is much more fitting in the 6th house as Aries is the sign related to butchers and having a double emphasis of this on his 6th house of his daily work fits the description, dahmer was a butcher only he butchered human beings.
The abuse I am sure I read he was abused by a boy when he was younger, but it was late last night and I read a couple of murder cases I will double check the information. But his chart to me does suggest he was abused as the ruler of his Childhood Venus is in Taurus in the 8th house. Neptune in the 1st (house of childhood) in Scorpio can be a possible representation of sexual boundaries crossed during childhood. Plus Mars quincunx Pluto.
On the cannibalism it would be difficult to see these tendencies in a chart I took a lighthearted interpretation at it with the double emphasis of Taurus/Venus in 8th as he liked the taste of the dead. But realistically it would be a hard thing to determine in a chart. I read the reason he liked to eat his victims was to feel close to them as he has the sexual possessive/love tendencies in his chart.
The Sun/Mercury in Gemini 8th square to Pluto in Virgo 11th house all quite mental energy possibly shows the morbidness of his mind and detachment also combined to the life force of his Sun energy.
The Moon in Aries 7th is an interesting placement as a sort of need to please energy which maybe relates to the mother or father but with the volatile emotions of Aries and with the coldness and seperation of Saturn squaring his Moon which could have left dahmer feeling cold and unfeeling himself as he may have felt this within his homelife.
The original question was 'what are the significators for cannibalism?'
Can ONE chart....and a serial killer at that.. be taken as a norm ?, although I have read of a Japanese and a German who did the same but don't have their names or birth data.
There are other sides to this question.
In ancient tribal customs, eating the heart of your enemy was considered an honour and mark of respect towards him. It showed the enemy fought well and his courage would become part of the victor's spirit and make him stronger. Civilised (Saturn) behaviour has obviously outlawed this but I wonder if it may still go on in tribes to which 'civilisation' is an unknown word.
In the 1980's/90's a plane with a South American football team crashed in the mountains. Anyone remember it? In order to survive, the living eventually had to resort to sustain themselves upon the dead.
SolarSiren expressed my own sentiments that almost everybody tones a form of cannibalism within them through various acts towards their body, but I don't know if we'd be so keen to chew on someone else's nails, skin, or nose content.
I think that Saturn refers to the cadaver, so would be found to be of significance in any research of the subject.
Yes, I remember about that planecrash, I think they even made a movie about it! I have looked a very long time at this chart and I get a very different feeling. I believe in what Draco says, I dont think he was abused in the sense we think. Look at the ruler of the 4th, early family environment, Saurn in a grand trine aspect to Venus (in 8, but in it's own sign, calm and dignified )and the Moonnode. Saturn is also very much in his element even though he makes a square to the Ascendant and the Moon, showing extreme introvertism, shyness. He was deeply emotional with his Sun, Mercury and ruler of the Ascendant in the 8th and I think that the abuse, if there was, did probably not come from within the family but from outside, friends. The 11th house ruler Sun in square to Pluto, could be showing this and Pluto as ruler of the 2nd his very low selfesteem as well. And because of that, it is very possible that he turned to violence in order to show power over others, the only way he could be "strong". There could have been homosexuality involved with Neptune trining it's own ruler Mars, reason why his victems were mainly boy and not girls. Perverse sexuality could be seen in the Venus in 8 square Uranus. 8th house issues often are about sexuality and life and death issues, as well as professions like being a surgeon and a butcher! I never heard about the 6th house being an indication of butchery... so probably that had to do with it. Why he turned to canibalism we probably will never know but I really think he turned crazy for whatever reason and could not restrain himself or it gave him such pleasure (being powerful in his own way)that he could not stop (grand trine), probably a combination of both. It is indeed worthwhile looking at this chart as something out of the ordinary. I am intrigued by it as so many others. I have some more ideas on the subject but must go now. S.
Your probably right Starlink I looked up about the possible abuse on the net and it seems he did have sexual contact with another boy at a young age but it was possibly mutually consented. Although from the placements I guess you could interpret it as being exposed to sex at a young age whether through abuse or mutual consent we may never know this for certain.
The 6th house is the house of work and daily duties and it is because Mars/Aries is in this house that it relates to people who work as butchers. Mars rules sharp instruments and Mars/Aries rules the blood. I looked it all up in my Astrology Keywords folder and found the possible occupations for Aries which included being a butcher.
A really good interpretation on his chart Starlink it made a lot of sense.