Oh boy... anytime you talk about water signs things get emotional! haha, well IMO everything is balanced and has a purpose, and there is good and bad to all signs. I said above that Pisces aren't chill to the core, I believe they are adaptable to the core and deeply afraid of having to adapt to something bad, and deeply hopeful that they can adapt and merge with something good and positive, but there is usually a nervous undercurrent to these people whom do not possess a spiritual faith, which is quite pivotal to these folks. The exit to life unsheathes our purest form, but it also takes us out of the human experience and causes alienation from peers, so most 12th house/Pisces people benefit from doing self work, and healing others in pain to feel connection.
Can 12th house make you feel Scorpio-like?..
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Thank you, it'd be great, actually. If you have time. How can I make it more detailed?
david starling
Well-known member
Is that Aries Asc.? If so, where's your Mars?
Witchyone
Well-known member
Interesting. I also have Mars in Leo. Mine is in the 3rd house.
Therese
Well-known member
hi there,
Whatever is signified by that Sun-Saturn conjunction in your chart, both Pisces and the 12th house are traditionally ruled by Jupiter, who is the final dispositor of your chart. And some of those possible Sun-Saturn issues are more relevant to an Aries ascendant with Moon in the first house than others.
In any case, whatever it is that Jupiter wants, he is so hungry that all planets are there to feed him. And he is in the eighth house. Even without blinking at Pluto, eighth house issues are very important in your personality - all roads (planets) lead to Rome (Jupiter in the 8th). The planets ruled by Sun (Mars) and Saturn (Mercury, Venus - Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius -, Uranus, Neptune) all bring their issues and experiences to Sun-Saturn, who take everything directly to Jupiter.
And there's the Moon, as well, who is in the first house, and who directly participates in the tight grand trine, together with Mars, ruler of your ascendant. Your Jupiter has the ring to rule them all. I would definitely spend quite some time figuring him out if I were you.
Whatever is signified by that Sun-Saturn conjunction in your chart, both Pisces and the 12th house are traditionally ruled by Jupiter, who is the final dispositor of your chart. And some of those possible Sun-Saturn issues are more relevant to an Aries ascendant with Moon in the first house than others.
In any case, whatever it is that Jupiter wants, he is so hungry that all planets are there to feed him. And he is in the eighth house. Even without blinking at Pluto, eighth house issues are very important in your personality - all roads (planets) lead to Rome (Jupiter in the 8th). The planets ruled by Sun (Mars) and Saturn (Mercury, Venus - Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aquarius -, Uranus, Neptune) all bring their issues and experiences to Sun-Saturn, who take everything directly to Jupiter.
And there's the Moon, as well, who is in the first house, and who directly participates in the tight grand trine, together with Mars, ruler of your ascendant. Your Jupiter has the ring to rule them all. I would definitely spend quite some time figuring him out if I were you.
Neptunian Rainbow
Well-known member
I really resonate with this problem. I have Neptune conjunct my ascendant. My Neptune is aspected by many planets including sun trine Neptune, Venus square Neptune and Mars square Neptune. My Venus is close to the cusp of Pisces.
Growing up it felt as if many people felt a deep need for something within me. They seemed hungry and became controlling and obsessed and I kept struggling to free myself. Often when I told them that I needed some alone time or that I did not wanted to do what they wanted to do they felt that I was selfish and a bad person. To me it felt as if other people wanted me to give them what they needed and in return many of them wanted to dump their pain on me.
Growing up I had dreams every night about saving the entire world.
Two friends of mine, both with a Pisces moon have a smaller version of the same problems. One with a Pisces moon in the twelfth house keep meeting women who lashes out at her for no reason. The other with a Pisces moon in the tenth house always befriends new people and she feels disappointed when they end up being addicted to her and when she gives without receiving.
Scorpio/Pluto wants to merge with other people. In some cases it may want to control the person who has what it needs.
Pisces/Neptune wants to merge as well, but in a way that is respectful, empathic, honest etc. Not many people can give those things at the kind of level that I am seeking. I do not escape into a world of drugs or fantasies, I am not avoidant. But perhaps many of the Pisces people are avoidant since it is really difficult to walk around in this world with that kind of vibe. People who need someone to talk to or someone to support them are drawn to me. I meet them everywhere and people call me when they have a problem.
I used to be severely codependent, but I have improved my boundaries immensely. It's not as if it is impossible to have healthy boundaries just because you are watery. Once I read that a watery person can learn to let the bad stuff from other people pass through them and let them go. Imagine a spear going through water, it has nothing to attach itself to, it just passes through.
Addiction is a symptom of a desperate need to feel connection. I believe that the obsession within a Pisces/Neptune person has to do with the longing to merge with others in a way that feels wonderful. I have had a few short moments in my life when I have felt nurtured by my connection with someone, but to be honest it was not real, it was me creating a fantasy world. At the end of the day I realised that I had connected with a yet another immature and selfish person.
Growing up it felt as if many people felt a deep need for something within me. They seemed hungry and became controlling and obsessed and I kept struggling to free myself. Often when I told them that I needed some alone time or that I did not wanted to do what they wanted to do they felt that I was selfish and a bad person. To me it felt as if other people wanted me to give them what they needed and in return many of them wanted to dump their pain on me.
Growing up I had dreams every night about saving the entire world.
Two friends of mine, both with a Pisces moon have a smaller version of the same problems. One with a Pisces moon in the twelfth house keep meeting women who lashes out at her for no reason. The other with a Pisces moon in the tenth house always befriends new people and she feels disappointed when they end up being addicted to her and when she gives without receiving.
Scorpio/Pluto wants to merge with other people. In some cases it may want to control the person who has what it needs.
Pisces/Neptune wants to merge as well, but in a way that is respectful, empathic, honest etc. Not many people can give those things at the kind of level that I am seeking. I do not escape into a world of drugs or fantasies, I am not avoidant. But perhaps many of the Pisces people are avoidant since it is really difficult to walk around in this world with that kind of vibe. People who need someone to talk to or someone to support them are drawn to me. I meet them everywhere and people call me when they have a problem.
I used to be severely codependent, but I have improved my boundaries immensely. It's not as if it is impossible to have healthy boundaries just because you are watery. Once I read that a watery person can learn to let the bad stuff from other people pass through them and let them go. Imagine a spear going through water, it has nothing to attach itself to, it just passes through.
Addiction is a symptom of a desperate need to feel connection. I believe that the obsession within a Pisces/Neptune person has to do with the longing to merge with others in a way that feels wonderful. I have had a few short moments in my life when I have felt nurtured by my connection with someone, but to be honest it was not real, it was me creating a fantasy world. At the end of the day I realised that I had connected with a yet another immature and selfish person.
Witchyone
Well-known member
Interesting. I don't know if we're still in the realm of what feels Scorpionic with this, or not, but what you say about people wanting too much sure does resonate. There have been many, many times in my life where I felt like someone (a lover, a friend, an employer, a family member) wouldn't be satisfied unless they could just...I dunno, suck out all my juices, body, mind, and soul. To this day, I don't struggle with loneliness, but with trying to get away from other people and their demands and hear myself think for a blessed second. (Are we describing what it feels like to get preyed upon by someone with negative Scorpionic tendencies instead of what it feels like to have those tendencies?)
This doesn't mean I haven't experienced unrequited love or longed after someone. I've done that too. In fact, it seems the very people I long for are the ones not paying attention to me. Figures.
I wonder if this has to do with Moon in Pisces, since you bring that up. Mine is in the 10th. It sextiles Jupiter in the 11th, also in Pisces. Venus is in the 12th in Taurus.
david starling
Well-known member
I've had to learn to merge and unmerge.
Neptunian Rainbow
Well-known member
I do not see it as if the sign Pisces feels like Scorpio. They both have the longing to merge, but they are different signs. However, every person is a mix of different signs, so every human being is very complex.
I read that Tina Turner, Whitney Houston and Rihanna all have Venus square Neptune. They have all been in abusive relationships with men who have Venus in a difficult aspect to Pluto. I have been down that road as well and it does not have to be physical abuse. Many years ago I met a man with Venus square Pluto (0 degrees), his Pluto square my Moon and his Nessus conjunct my North Node. He sucked me dry through mindgames and manipulation.
There are different levels of maturity within every sign so it´s not as if the sign Scorpio is bad. I myself have a Scorpio ascendant conjunct Neptune. I dive deep within myself to confront my shadows (=unconscious mind). I love the mature levels of the sign Scorpio. Many of my friends have their Sun in Scorpio or in the eight house. If a person has difficult aspects to his/her pluto I am careful and observe how the person is dealing with that.
Have you seen the series True Blood? The main character is a fairy. Vampires love her scent and her blood makes them feel very high. Normal people´s blood does not give them the same effect. I have seen all of the episodes and could easily write an entire book about all of the symbolism. There is a mutual obsession going on between Sookie (Neptune) and Bill (Pluto). It´s just that Bill lives in the shadows and he cannot survive without other people´s blood (life force). Sookie is willing to give him some of hers but he needs to make a huge effort not to suck her dry completely. She is often disappointed in him and tries to make him better so that they can have a wonderful relationship. In the show you see different kinds of fairies and different kinds of vampires. It´s not as if you love all of the fairies and hate all of the vampires. It´s not all black and white and neither is real life. In the series the vampires can charm other people and make someone feel obsessed by them. When someone gets to drink a little bit of the blood from a vampire they feel high. But the drug is destructive for them. Many fairies in the series hide from the world since they are afraid of the vampires. Some fairies are flighty, irresponsible, deceitful and so on. Some neptunians are like that and may be attracted to glamour, drugs or other things typically neptunian.
To long for someone who does not feel the same is typical for a Pisces/Neptunian as I see it. You have no idea what it would be like if that person would change and have deep feelings for you. Perhaps you would feel drained or suffocated? When you want someone that you can´t have, you have a vision of what it would be like if you and the other person would have feelings of each other and if you would be in a relationship. You are longing for the vision you have created.
Something that is important to know is that healthy people usually are not very interested and drawn to people with poor boundaries. People who need to drain others are very drawn to that.
I recommend you to learn a lot about codependency. It is difficult to improve ones boundaries. People in your life might react in strong and really crazy ways to a very basic kind of boundary. They are used to having access to your energy and when you take your power back they feel as if you are taking something from them or that you are really cold and selfish. They do not understand what is going on between both of you energetically speaking and they don´t know that they are draining you and that it is wrong to do that to someone. Neptunians wants to be seen as very good people and they don´t like it when they are seen as bad or selfish somehow. They really hate feeling as if they are evil so they keep giving themselves away.
When I improved my boundaries some people changed and accepted the new me. Some people had to go. Many new people have entered my life. My boundaries are not perfect, but so much better than before.
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Witchyone
Well-known member
Get outta mah head!
Codependency has been an issue all my life, and I'm married to a Pisces with Libra moon who is even more codependent than I. We're working on it. One thing I've discovered with my therapist is that I have spent most of my life defining love almost entirely by how much I can give to the object of my affection and how loyal I am to them rather than how I'm made to feel or what they do for me. So, I'm sure I am seeking them out on some level, these people who siphon off my energy. I do have an excess of energy, so I think I might need some siphoning, but I trust too much, and some people take and take. Boundaries? What boundaries!!?? By the way, I think with my North Node in Sagittarius in the 7th house, figuring out boundaries is part of my purpose this time around.
But seriously, my eyes are open, and I am working on it. It's so funny that you use the True Blood metaphor. I loved the first few seasons of that show--and then it got stinky-awful bad, did it not!?!--and I very much identify with Sookie. I guess she is the ultimate Pisces - sweet-natured but fierce when protecting loved ones or principals, wishy-washy and forgiving of even the most heinous crimes, clouded judgement when it comes to love, can read everyone's minds and is tortured by it...
And I suppose that a sexy vampire is a pretty apt metaphor for an unevolved Scorpio. They are certainly not the only ones capable of vampiric activity though!
Thanks for the post.
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Witchyone
Well-known member
Can you say more about that?
david starling
Well-known member
Using the "sponge" metaphor, absorbing the feelings and energy-signatures of others, then "wringing it out" and feeling like myself again. Having my Moon in Aquarius helps a lot. (Moon and Venus 3 degrees Conjunct in H12.)
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Neptunian Rainbow
Well-known member
Get outta mah head!
Codependency has been an issue all my life, and I'm married to a Pisces with Libra moon who is even more codependent than I. We're working on it. One thing I've discovered with my therapist is that I have spent most of my life defining love almost entirely by how much I can give to the object of my affection and how loyal I am to them rather than how I'm made to feel or what they do for me. So, I'm sure I am seeking them out on some level, these people who siphon off my energy. I do have an excess of energy, so I think I might need some siphoning, but I trust too much, and some people take and take. Boundaries? What boundaries!!?? By the way, I think with my North Node in Sagittarius in the 7th house, figuring out boundaries is part of my purpose this time around.
But seriously, my eyes are open, and I am working on it. It's so funny that you use the True Blood metaphor. I loved the first few seasons of that show--and then it got stinky-awful bad, did it not!?!--and I very much identify with Sookie. I guess she is the ultimate Pisces - sweet-natured but fierce when protecting loved ones or principals, wishy-washy and forgiving of even the most heinous crimes, clouded judgement when it comes to love, can read everyone's minds and is tortured by it...
And I suppose that a sexy vampire is a pretty apt metaphor for an unevolved Scorpio. They are certainly not the only ones capable of vampiric activity though!
Thanks for the post.
I am inside everybody´s head, y´all should stop thinking so loud
I agree, the show lost it´s greatness. But I kept watching it since my life was very much reflected by the life of Sookie at that time. I also had a Bill, a fling with a handsome man (Eric), it felt as if my only family was my little brother, I feel constantly invaded by other people´s presence and so on. Very interesting to hear that you resonated with her as well!
Perhaps the mind-reading has to do with your north node in Sagittarius? Guess you are always searching within the minds of other people for the truth? My north node is also in the seventh house but in Gemini. I am like a crazy little woman from the mountains who is constantly preaching her truth as she sees it to everyone
I am improving with time though. It is great that you are working on your codepency, I am as well.
I am able to have rather decent boundaries nowadays but I feel as if other people can´t make me feel emotionally fulfilled so I focus on giving them support, advice and emotional nurturing. At least people tell me that they feel nurtured by me so I guess that I sense what they need. I often withdraw from everyone to fill up my energy levels.
In my case I believe that I need to become more confident and value myself more. I believe that I am scared of people who seem to have something that would make me feel good. I feel as if I am not worthy of them. I can´t remember having felt emotionally nurtured by my parents even once during my childhood. I constantly felt invaded/abused/controlled. I probably have some deep seated programs within me.
Healthy people won´t chase me and tear down my walls of fears and insecurities. The vampires however are eager to do that. The moments of emotional fulfillment and connection I have experienced have been with vampires.
Thanks for the comment and good luck!
anjelik
Well-known member
My husband has a Pisces stellium in the 12th (Sun, Venus, Mercury) and I find that he is private about things that are very personal to him. Overall you wouldn't really consider him a private person or an introvert by any means, but things that have substantial emotional meaning to him he keeps close to his heart and he doesn't easily open up about those things. I think that is the 12th house at work and not necessarily Pisces, though I do think it being in Pisces makes him a little more sensitive to things like that. I think having a stellium of personal planets in Scorpio would also make someone a very private person as well. My sister has this in the 9th house as well as a Cap stellium of outer planets in the 12th.
I agree. All Pisces I know are different - myself included. I am a Pisces Sun and so is my husband. If you asked a person who knew nothing about astrology outside of Sun signs, no one would ever say "YOU TWO ARE PISCES!" I know people who are nervous and anxious, and some may be Pisces, but some may also have other Sun signs as well. That is just a stupid generalisation in my opinion as well.
Witchyone
Well-known member
I am inside everybody´s head, y´all should stop thinking so loud
I agree, the show lost it´s greatness. But I kept watching it since my life was very much reflected by the life of Sookie at that time. I also had a Bill, a fling with a handsome man (Eric), it felt as if my only family was my little brother, I feel constantly invaded by other people´s presence and so on. Very interesting to hear that you resonated with her as well!
Perhaps the mind-reading has to do with your north node in Sagittarius? Guess you are always searching within the minds of other people for the truth? My north node is also in the seventh house but in Gemini. I am like a crazy little woman from the mountains who is constantly preaching her truth as she sees it to everyone
It is great that you are working on your codepency, I am as well.
I am able to have rather decent boundaries nowadays but I feel as if other people can´t make me feel emotionally fulfilled so I focus on giving them support, advice and emotional nurturing. At least people tell me that they feel nurtured by me so I guess that I sense what they need. I often withdraw from everyone to fill up my energy levels.
In my case I believe that I need to become more confident and value myself more. I believe that I am scared of people who seem to have something that would make me feel good. I feel as if I am not worthy of them. I can´t remember having felt emotionally nurtured by my parents even once during my childhood. I constantly felt invaded/abused/controlled. I probably have some deep seated programs within me.
Healthy people won´t chase me and tear down my walls of fears and insecurities. The vampires however are eager to do that. The moments of emotional fulfillment and connection I have experienced have been with vampires.
Thanks for the comment and good luck!
That's very astute. Wow. I'm pretty sure I've experienced this same thing. Eventually, I always tire of people who play push/pull games with me. I want realness, and sometimes that kind of intensity can feel like it's getting to the "real" when it's actually just predatory behavior.
With NN in Sag in 7th, I am eternally fascinated by and interested in everyone. I have both SN and sun in Gemini, so I've got the expressing myself thing down now. I'm very self-referential and figure things out about others by first running it through my personal filters. I'm sure that makes me seem arrogant, and it probably muddles my view sometimes, but it's my go-to way of understanding. I'm capable of incredible amounts of empathy. The downside to that is I'm wishy-washy, like Miss Sookie.
I'm sorry you didn't feel nurtured as a child. I can actually feel the nurturing in your posts, so you're obviously not having problems showing that quality. Good luck letting healthy people in. I had a very nurturing mother and family of origin, thankfully, because we lost a lot of people.
On that letting people in thing...I know that I personally hate control. I don't want to control anyone else. That kind of power terrifies me (and that is where I am opposite to a Scorpio). I also don't want to be controlled. I'll go to great lengths to keep from being controlled. And the best way to never be controlled is to never be vulnerable. There is an emotional core in me that is off-limits, and I'm pretty sure I've never bared to anyone. I don't really have access, myself...I just know it's there. Is this about a chart placement or losing my dad at the age of 9? Maybe everyone has that unreachable spot. I honestly don't know.
david starling
Well-known member
Something we've neglected: NN ("Dragon's Head") in Scorpio in the 8th House. I have it in Gemini in H4, and I think WAY too much for a Pisces Sun, Asc, Merc and Mars.
Moon in Aries could be attuned to it, since the Nodes are Lunar in nature (points where the Moon's orbit intersects the Zodiac) and Aries and Scorpio share a bond; and, Pisces-Suns are naturally Moon-attuned.
I really don't think H12 placements would make a Piscean feel "Scorpio-like" unless Scorpio was actually in that House.
Moon in Aries could be attuned to it, since the Nodes are Lunar in nature (points where the Moon's orbit intersects the Zodiac) and Aries and Scorpio share a bond; and, Pisces-Suns are naturally Moon-attuned.I really don't think H12 placements would make a Piscean feel "Scorpio-like" unless Scorpio was actually in that House.
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I have a pretty full 12th house, with the Sun, Mercury, Uranus and possibly Neptune in there. As to feeling scorpionic, in my personal experience this has mostly lead to emotional intensity and obsessiveness to a certain degree, although not a dominant influence in my life. I do suppose, as many others have mentioned in previous replies, that aspects and planet placings come into play when it comes to feeling immersed in a certain sign's energy.
CancerEvolve
Banned
I say it's not a bad chart, emotions and possessiveness, some of us signs like it, Cancer especially will appreciate how much you love them by showing possessiveness.