Bullying

[Neptunian Rainbow]

Edgar Cayce Venus conjunct Saturn
John F Kennedy Junior Venus conjunct Saturn

Thomas Edison Venus conjunct Saturn

Christopher Columbus Venus conjunct Saturn
Lord Byron Venus conjunct Saturn


Florence Nightingale Venus square Sturn

Franklin D Roosevelt Venus square Saturn
Felipe VI of Spain Vemis sqiare Saturn

Marjorie Orr astrologer Venus square Saturn
Louis XIV of France Venus square Saturn


generalisation is fun, yet unreliable
and so on ad infinitum
Q.E.D.


.

I agree, it was not my intention to generalize. I simply find it to be fascinating that Jeff and his buddies all have Venus-Saturn aspects and they seem to deal with it in the same way.
People with harsh Venus-Saturn aspects may have issues with their self worth, feel unlovable, feel as if they have to sell themselves in some way in order to gain money or work way too hard to deserve money. Some feel that they have to pay to get love or intimacy (like a sugardaddy). Everyone will experience and deal with their Venus-Saturn issues in different ways depending on what their entire chart looks like. I also believe that we have a free will and that we can choose to evolve and transform aspects.

 

[Zeuses]

Interesting debates throughout this whole thread, but hopefully whilst considering what may or may not cause people to be bullied or to people to bully others there is empathy for anyone that is subject to this in any shape or form given that we are meant to be the higher species.

 

[Fz hb]

this thread is eye opening in many ways. I have encountered some bullies and some of them are fully aware of their behavior and how it affects everyone around them and they use it to wield power. I have noticed chiron in 11th or 7th of those who are bullied a lot and it remains as an internal wound and becomes part of their personality. Some people stand up to their bullies or at least defend themselves and those usually have strong leo charts, or pluto saturn conjunction, or even venus somewhere in aspect to the ruler of chiron or saturn.
I have seen that venus works in a neutralizing manner in charts of those that are bullied and able to walk away from the bullying person. This is not to say they are not harmed by the bullying, they definitely are, but they manage to at least find an escape or a way to reduce the intensity of bullying. Venus is a very powerful planet when it comes to neutralizing any conflict with authority figures.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Interesting debates throughout this whole thread,

but hopefully whilst considering what may
or may not cause people to be bullied or to people to bully others
there is empathy for anyone that is subject to this

in any shape or form

given that

we are

meant to be the higher species.

an interesting illustration of the topic

with example of social media doxing:
GOP Wayne County canvassers expose Democrat bully tactics
call for audit in Michigan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdmz8JcTju4




.

 

[david starling]

an interesting illustration of the topic

with example of social media doxing:
GOP Wayne County canvassers expose Democrat bully tactics
call for audit in Michigan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdmz8JcTju4




.

Trump literally FIRES anyone on his campaign staff who EVEN MENTIONS Biden's name! And, threatens or fires any Republicans who have publicly accepted the Election results as projected by the Media.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Trump literally FIRES anyone on his campaign staff who EVEN MENTONS Biden's name! And, threatens or fires any Republicans who have publicly accepted the Election results

as projected by the Media.

The U.S. election fraud has now become the focus of the world
but the U.S. "...mainstream media..." is turning a blind eye to it
and not reporting it at all.
More sensational news won’t be covered
by the mainstream media.
Therefore, I am here to share it with you.

Inside story behind Michigan reversal exposed
Cash-for-Vote scheme used by Pro-Biden group

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1FwH9xHs0s

If Congress rejects the conclusion of the election
under the Twelfth Amendment of the United States Constitution
the House of Representatives would hold a “...contingent election...”
to select the president.
The Senate would also hold a contingent election
to select the vice president
this would be very favorable to Trump.


Regarding the election data, Brian Trascher of the Trump team
said on Wednesday in a interview with Newsmax
that they had recovered the raw data of the election
from Dominion servers seized in Frankfurt, Germany

...“The data that is going to come out will shake the globalists to their very core....." says Trascher.

He pointed out the problems
such as
why U.S. election servers are overseas
how ballots are changed from one candidate to another
and how a nationwide fraudulent system is operated.
He said that with this software
tens of thousands of ballots were automatically changed
and this information “...will...” be made public.




.

 

[Zeuses]

In keeping with the theme of the OP, what would cause someone to be especially vulnerable to sexual bullying in the first place? The generally accepted answer is: Low self-esteem.

So, that's probably the case for all forms bullying. What in a Chart would cause one to have a sense of low self-esteem?

Maybe a weak, badly-Aspected H1?

Apologies but I thought I had responded to this but obviously didn't. What would be defined as sexual bullying?

In general bullying/harassment/mobbing etc how does the victim having a badly aspected H1 work if they have only been bullied at a particular time in their lives (not continually throughout life) and don't suffer from self esteem issues?

It is interesting to read throughout this thread from the very beginning where people have shared their experiences and it hasn't always been throughout life. I think it rarely is. I still believe transits are important in bullying for this reason.

 

[Zeuses]

Are a few of these last responses better placed in mundane (if there is one) even though you are both relating to bullying in them?

 

[Humanitarian]

In keeping with the theme of the OP, what would cause someone to be especially vulnerable to sexual bullying in the first place? The generally accepted answer is: Low self-esteem.

So, that's probably the case for all forms bullying. What in a Chart would cause one to have a sense of low self-esteem?

Maybe a weak, badly-Aspected H1?

I think that is a prominent Chiron. I have Chiron aspected with almost every planets and points, even some dwarf planets in my chart are aspected by my Chiron

 

[Lin]

Well, one thing we know about antisocial behavior is that most people who are guilty of this have themselves been victims of it.

People who are "sexiual" bullies...I am not an expert about. But I do know that all impulse to antisocial behavior has things in common. As said above, low self esteem + being paranoid, having NO sense of normal social "limitations" (Saturn issues).....
and having NO ability to laugh at oneself..and not being able to take NO for an answer...
NOT having ANY talent for changing behavior to fit the occasion... And taking EVERYthing so personally .....that all forms of debate or difference of opinion or personal choice have no bearing on the immediate need to dominate.

BUT the impulse to manipulative behavior has many sources...we think of the "outer planets" issues.... and as they relate to Moon, Venus, Mars...especially.

We can't "generalize" about this.
But.....Like pornography, I would know it (in a chart) when I see it (in the chart.)

LIN

 

[david starling]

Well, one thing we know about antisocial behavior is that most people who are guilty of this have themselves been victims of it.

People who are "sexiual" bullies...I am not an expert about. But I do know that all impulse to antisocial behavior has things in common. As said above, low self esteem + being paranoid, having NO sense of normal social "limitations" (Saturn issues).....
and having NO ability to laugh at oneself..and not being able to take NO for an answer...
NOT having ANY talent for changing behavior to fit the occasion... And taking EVERYthing so personally .....that all forms of debate or difference of opinion or personal choice have no bearing on the immediate need to dominate.

BUT the impulse to manipulative behavior has many sources...we think of the "outer planets" issues.... and as they relate to Moon, Venus, Mars...especially.

We can't "generalize" about this.
But.....Like pornography, I would know it (in a chart) when I see it (in the chart.)

LIN

(Some humor)

"Ah, I see you have a pornographic chart! So, what are your plans for tonight?"

 

[Lin]

HUH?? I have no idea what you mean.

My point was that trying to describe in advance the type of person who would bully is like all other generalizations. You have to SEE a chart to know why THAT particular person is prone to anti social behaviors of all types...as each chart is unique.
There are some dynamics one would expect to see in the chart of someone prone to bad behaviors....but it's bad astrology to speculate and generalize.

The sentiment about "pornography" is from a very famous quote...when it was thought that one could legislate against ****.
But the problem was...that one could not "generalize" ...enough to know what is or is not pornography.
But it was said...as I mentioned above...that one might not be able to define it perfectly but the person who first said it...said, "I can't define it but I know it if I see it."

In this same way, I could never describe every type of anti social behavior..but if I SAW a chart of someone suspected of having this type of behavior...I probably would know it.
I hope this clears up this point,
LIN
P.S.: here is the quote I referred to:

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously said in his 1964 Order that he could not use words to describe pornography, but “I know it when I see it.”
.

 

[Humanitarian]

Yes, Moon's placement, I think is very important when it comes to social integration and acceptance -> a 2-way street. I've noticed that Airy Moons and those in Fire signs do very well in this regard (I have an Earth Monn & that's in Capricorn, it can make you lonely)

Also, look for if any & what planets are there in 11. Venus, Moon, Sun, Jup might be very helpful in making one popular (menaing well-liked) in his social circle. A Saturn on the other hand (as in my chart ) might bring about the reverse effect.

I have an Air Moon (Libra Moon) and a Fire Sun (Sag Sun), and even an air ASC (Gemini ASC), but I've been bullied from preschool till now. I think it is because I'm too different from others (Uranus square ASC, square Sun, inconjunct Moon), and a prominent Chiron (Neptune, Jupiter conj. Chiron, North Node, Uranus semisextile Chiron, Pluto septile Chiron, Mars opp. Chiron, Moon, ASC trine Chiron, Sun sextile Chiron). I'm trying to be my true self, but my shadow wants to bully others (Mars octile Saturn and sesquisquare + contraparallel Pluto).

 

[Humanitarian]

I have more bullies in my new class now, and it seems that my Uranian "can't be controlled" energy triggers my new friends, and so they want to bully me to discourage me to achieve my goals, and fortunately, when I drove my attention away from my new bullies, the bullying situation improved, although my friends still bully me on social media (I offed AW more than usual also for this reason, too).

 

[Lin]

Friends never bully. Hence, they are NOT your friends...they are acquaintances. Don't encourage their interaction....it's better to be alone than with bad friends.
When you expect more of "friends" and don't TAKE abuse, you will begin to attract better friends.

And if it feels like abuse, it's abuse.
Lin

 

[Ukpoohbear]

Friends never bully. Hence, they are NOT your friends...they are acquaintances. Don't encourage their interaction....it's better to be alone than with bad friends.
When you expect more of "friends" and don't TAKE abuse, you will begin to attract better friends.

And if it feels like abuse, it's abuse.
Lin

It’s difficult to navigate the friend world because, in my experience - I have been able to see a side to an acquaintance that I did not like, and therefore prevented me from trusting her or forming a fully-fledged friendship, even if technically they haven’t done anything that wrong to me yet. Until they do, then it still hurts me when they finally do hurt me, even if I saw it in them before they did.

 

[Lin]

It's always difficult to navigate the "friendship world" because as you say....unless yo KNOW the person tends to be a bully you don't know if they will do that...in your friendship.

So yeah...it's good to be cautious. BUT...you need to have a "ZERO TOLERANCE" for bullying behaviors .....one strike and they are OUT....unless they profusely apologize and there was a reason....(they were going thru a trauma or some other issue which was temporary)....but otherwise....once a bully, always a bully.

Remember: tolerating bullying can become a habit until you are a perpetual victim. Don't let that happen. I don't know how old you are but...you'll have plenty of chances to make good friends....good friends "appreciate" each other....
Lin

 

[curu1]

I have Pluto in my 11th and I have been severely bullied form childhood into adulthood.

My 11th lord venus is also conjunct mars in my 7th house and my mars is in opp to Neptune in my first. I thought a lot of people were my friends but was betrayed constantly and they only hung out with me to use me.

 

[Lin]

Have a checklist...or priority list when meeting new friends....ask around about their past friendships....be IN THE MOMENT and don't trust before the person shows they can be trusted. Don't "fantasize" the perfect friendship and PROJECT in on to that person or any person.....until you see the reality.

Someone....a VERY long time ago....said to me: IF YOU LAY DOWN ON THE FLOOR, DON'T BE SURPRISED IF YOU ARE TREATED LIKE A DOORMAT.

LIN