Black Sun ?

piercethevale

Well-known member
Orsoblu1 said:
Hi all,
thank you very much for your contribute to my post.

There was a person that told me I have black sun near my natal sun in my house of work, I wanted to know more and that's why I post the thread,
but I admit that I didn't know anynthing about it.
I'm sorry for that, and your discussion now is over my capacity at the moment. Please excuse me.

From the other part, I'm glad this discussion is become so instructive for all us.

Thank you all,

ob1:)

Orsoblu, if your Sun is nowhere near the 7th degree of Libra then I would assume they meant the Aphelion...

...if you live anywhere near Caeserta or Naples say hello to my cousins for me...Ciao, Amica!
 
if anyone knows where i can find bode's books let me know!!!

here's why i wanna know:
lilith is conjunct my true node
panacea conjunct uranus
okyrhoe conjunct my neptune

& if the black sun
[[[best info i've found, btw: http://www.horusset.com/RIKB/bsastro.htm ]]]
is indeed at 13 in cancer, then it is conjunct my urania
also: natal sun, hekate, chiron, jupiter


AND as far as that lilith ruling capricorn theory goes--- i want to talk about it! i'm capricorn rising- conjunct saturn. (neptune and uranus are in the 12th house, not too tight but i consider it highly relevant because my natal sun is exactly opposite uranus. :)


anybody inclined to follow that link will see a black sun 'feast day' is june 29th- my birthday. that's when it enters into libra, which is where my moon sits(nine degrees.. my 9house cusp is 8deg. in libra) - not to mention, all this is trine my node/lilith (in aqu.1) and venus (in gem.5) - grand trine :)


FROM THIS YOU MIGHT GLEAN HOW VERY VERY INTERESTED I AM.
I REQUIRE MORE INFORMATION!!!!
 
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Inconjunct

Well-known member
Black Sun, Black Moon - what is with all this? Aren't there enough planets without making ones up?

Actually I think I know what this is about. It's about what one poster here called so very aptly "special snowflake syndrome". Having Capricorn rising is - well - it's a bit boring isn't it and doesn't make you stand out enough. So let's make up some planets, and chuck in some asteroids and maybe a bit of trans-Neptunian space junk suddenly I have Juno conjunct Lilith in Scorpio in a grand cross with Pholus and Sedna which is like rilly dark and interesting and deep, man.
 
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Fulcrum

Well-known member
Resurrecting an old thread here to share a bit of information I found pertaining (hopefully) to the subject at hand.

That information is here, if you don't mind reading a lot of stuff that to my untrained eye looks like Golden Dawn patois, filled with Hebrew symbolism and naming that frankly made my head spin around on my neck. I'll try to summarize, but first I have to quote the man himself (mods please note that he provides no copyright information on his page):

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mystic and psychoanalyst Carl Jung wrote about the Black Sun... in his alchemical works. The psychiatrist and pioneering LSD therapist Stanislav Grof relates an anecdote of a client who spontaneously experienced a vision of the Black Sun during a session of holotropic breathing. He subsequently associated the symbol with the "core self" of the client, the hidden radiance underlying the "manifest sun" or ego. The alchemist Jean Dubuis, in a lecture before the Philosophers of Nature stated that "this black sun of Saturn is the one that emits all the mystical influences of Saturn. And at that time chances of contact with eternity are maximum." This is the meaning behind Crowley's reference in the Book of Thoth: "According to an ancient tradition, the sun is also black."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Contact with the Black Sun is associated with the experience of burning away the dross of the personality, leaving the gold or essential nature of the first matter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Special emphasis is paid to Saturn in the article: the reason being that if we regard Saturn's orbit as elliptical, and if we know that the Sun is one of the foci of that ellipse, then there must be a second focus in order for Saturn's path to be an ellipse. The Black Sun is that second focus. While all the planets except for maybe Venus have a second focus defining its path through the heavens, Saturn's is the only one outside Earth's orbit. (Actually, the only one easily calculated; according to the article, the outer planets orbit our solar system's center of mass, or barycenter, and finding that and then a second focus to define an elliptical path seems to have proven cumbersome.)

The guest poster above is partly correct that the Black Sun occupies a position that appears to be fixed, but according to the article [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]he's 180 degrees out of phase according to the article: it was at 3 Capricorn when the article was written. Of note here (the guest failed to touch on this) is that it is at that position when viewed from a heliocentric standpoint. Its counterpart on that axis, the Diamond, would then complete the axis at 3 Cancer. And again, if you were standing on the surface of the sun, it wouldn't look like it's moving the way the other celestial bodies do (it does move around the ecliptic, but at a rate of 1°52' a year; it takes twelve thousand years to complete an orbit, so you'd get a little bit sweaty, standing there on the surface of the sun).

From a geocentric standpoint, it seems to move in a manner similar to the way I understand the Vertex to move, albeit that the Vertex moves windshield-wiper-like in traversing the 5th through 8th houses (correct me if I'm wrong here) and the Black Sun moves windshield-wiper-like between two points on the ecliptic: approximately 16 Pisces and 19 Libra. It tends to move slower as it approaches either of these two extremes, and around 7 June turns retrograde in Pisces. It picks up speed, whipping through Capricorn and Scorpio in a matter of four or five days (22-26 June, during which it reaches aphelion with Earth), slows down again, and turns direct in Libra on or about July 11. Its direct motion is considerably slower: it spends approximately a month each in the last half of Libra, Scorpio, and Sadge; then two months each in Capricorn, Aquarius, and roughly the first half of Pisces before turning retrograde again.

So far the only bit of Black Sun interpretation I was able to find regarding its astrological significance was that alchemy-speak in the quote about it burning away the impurities in order to allow our true selves to shine. I haven't seen the Bode book the guest mentions, but I take it that the guest's interpretation of the Black Sun (q.v. the fourth post in the thread) follows on from Bode's.

EDIT: this article from Astrotheme.com identifies the point in question as existing at 13 Cancer, and gives it a name: Dionysus. Now I'm not at all certain which is the Black Sun and which is the Diamond... and so far I've found nothing about interpreting the Diamond.

Back to the mines then...
[/FONT]
 
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Okay so my understanding is that:
The Black Sun is the other foci of the earths orbit around the Sun, yes/no correct me if I am wrong.
The position of the Sun as seen from the Earth would look through the Sun, one foci, and the position of the Black Sun as seen from the Earth would look through the other foci, yes/no correct me if I am wrong.
These two positions would not vary much but by about two degrees, Black Sun exact the Sun at perihelion and aphelion or up to two and a bit degrees either side, yes/no correct me if I am wrong.
Not lot of difference until we consider transits and progressions.
What does it mean, I am working on that but need the maths.
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
You have dredged up a post that is more than two years old, and the OP has never come back here.

There is no such thing as black sun in astrology.

There are, however, three Liliths which maskerade in this way: Dark Moon Lilith(which is an imaginary planet, but effective just the same---maybe a dark matter planet), black moon lilith(which is just a place in the moon's orbit), and asteroid Lilith(which is obviously an asteroid).
 

ukdesifem

Well-known member
Sounds like an astrononomical term.

the link between astronomy and astrology is loose at best, as astrology's understanding of celestial phenonema is more or less as the Romans or Greeks saw it. For instance, there is no Oort Cloud in Leo, or Wolf 359 in Gemini. :wink:
 

teskaf1

Member
All information about Black Moon, Black Sun etc you will find on this site:
www.zwarte-maan.nl Too bad it's only in dutch.

Recently a FB page has started where Charlotte Wenner is going to translate the texts into english. So, if you have a FB account at this moment you already can read about Black Moon, Black Sun and an excerpts from a book by George Bode:
https://www.facebook.com/invisible.luminaries?fref=photo

The article about the Black Sun in dutch:
http://www.devlinderpraktijk.nl/de_zwarte_zon.htm

Another dutch article:
http://www.zachariel.nl/artikelen/zachzwartezon.htm
 

teskaf1

Member
if anyone knows where i can find bode's books let me know!!!

here's why i wanna know:
lilith is conjunct my true node
panacea conjunct uranus
okyrhoe conjunct my neptune

& if the black sun
[[[best info i've found, btw: http://www.horusset.com/RIKB/bsastro.htm ]]]
is indeed at 13 in cancer, then it is conjunct my urania
also: natal sun, hekate, chiron, jupiter


Ladylemnescate, the Black Sun in the article you mention has IMHO nothing to do with the Black Sun from the books by George Bode.
I never heard Bode talk about Panacea or Okyrhoe ??

His book: 'Zwarte Maan, Zwarte Zon, Drakenkop'
Uitgeverij Vulcanus. ISBN:90 5685 062 8.

An interview with George Bode (dutch)
http://www.zwarte-maan.nl/art-1-printversie-georgebode-zwartemaan.htm
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Does anyone know whether the black sun can be input into a chart at astro.com?

Or info on its current position and precisely how fast it moves?
 

teskaf1

Member
Black Sun is on 12 degree Cancer. Moves just one degree in 72 years.
No, it's not possible to put in a chart on AstroCom.
As far as I know it only is calculated in Astrolab from Ole Eshuis.

http://www.astrolab.nl
 
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teskaf1

Member

booboo

Well-known member
Thanks I've missed that it's the same question :smile: I saw actually afterwards the article in facebook and I read it and saw it was given as 12-13 degrees cancer.
 
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