Black Moon Lillith

Night Sky

Well-known member
Squapius said:
Hello again NightSky!

You said:


I could tell you by reading this post that you are taking the myth words in a plain way.

Is true that a part of lilith is being very hurt and feeling strong anger towards what caused you pain. The pain in question relate to the treats of the house where lilith is placed on.
Then we can say that the person seeks revenge and feels much hatred.
That´s true. But this anger or hate are the consecuence of not being aware of a deeper meaning of yourself. Because lilith represents a higher concept of yourself.
Because the hatred comes when a very sensitive part of yourself or your life (sometimes focus of fears and shame) get´s hurt.
That´s why you feel so much anger and hatred.

I think that the myth describes lilith as the wrong evil demoness, because of the same unadmitted shame and anguish of the men or the scripture writters projected to lilith with the purpose of hidding the guilt they feel for what they did to her. Then, lilith would be being very alike to pluto (things that lie hidden), but with the only difference that knowing the truth and looking at it is your choice (lilith is more like a personal planet/space object).

When you obtain awareness and you are atuned to lilith´s energy, then you will respect yourself in the way you won´t let anything to hurt you and it will give you the chance of forgiving your own errors.
Is like loving yourself.

I think those words are very inciteful Squapius. This does probably denote anger in some way.


And I find it admirable that you think that by analysing it and knowing about it, you would be able to "cure" it in some way.

Maybe I do take the myth of Lillith too literally. But wouldn't it be ignoring the basic premise to say that it CAN be dealt with in a way which is acceptable. BML is totally unacceptable... that is the point of her isn't it. She is completely thrown out by God and rejected by the Paradise world and has to make do with demons.

How is the figure redeemed?

How do you find a positive out of that kind of story?

So what are you saying here then... it is good to be bad? To act out the BML? I don't see it.
 

Squapius

Banned
And I find it admirable that you think that by analysing it and knowing about it, you would be able to "cure" it in some way.
I didn´t say anything about cure or healing.
I was just talking about my conception of lilith.

Maybe I do take the myth of Lillith too literally. But wouldn't it be ignoring the basic premise to say that it CAN be dealt with in a way which is acceptable. BML is totally unacceptable... that is the point of her isn't it. She is completely thrown out by God and rejected by the Paradise world and has to make do with demons.

How is the figure redeemed?

How do you find a positive out of that kind of story?
So what are you saying here then... it is good to be bad? To act out the BML? I don't see it.
It´s unacceptable because it´s a very sensitive point.
Maybe you though I was talking about it with too much soft words.

And I never meant to say that "is good to be bad".


Why do you think lilith is like that?
 
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Awakened_Pisces

Well-known member
On her own, yes she is unacceptable. But as with all planets, etc. Together, Lilith is a part of the being. Individually flawed, but collectively strong.

My own personal life (Lilith in Cappi) is however proof that Night is right about Lilith's destructive force. Night knows me pretty decently, so he knows of both my honesty and intregrity. No, Lilith didn't turn me into a lier. What Lilith did was manipulate/distort or increase the level of the Dark Truths of my feelings. And in hyper active Cappi. She did this real well.

Lily basically revealed the basic core of my hatred. Throughout the majority of my life and indeed, although tempered greatly I still do have some of it. A hatred for adults. Why? Because they took all that was important to me without telling me why or asking why. And from a world standpoint. Guns, Bombs and the such. In the end. Uranus opposing Saturn. And the peaceful Pisces in me combined to really say. "Enough". That's not to say Lilith's hatred still isn't there. She's still in Capicorn. But, Uranus, Pisces and my general being has kept Lilith undercontrol. Lilith exploited the Darkness in me. Now I know how to corperate that darkness into me. And now I know what to do not to make Lilith tick. Because from experience. Lilith is one beautiful but deadly woman.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
I have never really bothered even trying to interpret my lillith.

Have it in aquarius... sign of friendships... in 5th house, house of 1 creativity, but also of fun and dating and that kind of thing.

I have never really hated anyone, but have felt anger towards groups of people (VERY AQUARIUS) especially groups at school who picked on me, 5th house is children.

I don't know, always decided to be on my own since then. So i am independent in one way, but feel some of the badness of aquarius... the one who is acquantance of all but close friend of none.

I don't know what other 5th house Aquarius things are there?
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Lilith is an indicator of a particular process in personality only when it is closely associated to an angle or planet. Lilith is a kind of "sub personality" issue and is very difficult to recognise in self. Others may "see it" emerge however its Blackness is just that, hard to see just like some of Pluto's unconscious projections. It takes an evolved or very competent self-reflective process to identify Lilith actually hapening in the here and now.

To start with, you may "see it" a couple of days later in a reflective process by aligning ones feelings and behaviours to the particular event that had occured.

There can be a style of thinking that is aimed to squash Lilith down, to restrict her while being socially interactive because the last thing we want is to have Lilith emerge and stuff up relationships or be misunderstood.

Some Lilith postions and chart functions do not allow for much self reflection or perhaps there are other denials going on that eventuate in more lilith manifestations than others.

If one becomes alienated due to Liliths gusts of over-ruling sub personality issues the person may or may not care (have a conscience or desire to integrate socially) Some of us do care and want to limit her. They begin to chastise themselves for such innapropriate behaviours and consequently reinforce Liliths anguish about not being acknowledged for her power-creativity or her rawness. She just gets more suppressed and more powerful in the sub personality.

Lilith is hard to do at home. I do not recomend that unless there are good boundaries involved. Maybe a lilith role-play will get her out in the open however in my mind it is not the same thing. Lilith is not that pretentious unless that is, she is pretentious, if you get what I mean.

In controlled situations in groups, one can see glimpses of lilith and recognise internal shames or lack of conscience related to ones behaviours or interactions in the group. This kind of work involves relational therapy techniques where its not what is said but what is not said. Everyone must be willing to allow others to 'hear' the unconscious-subjective interelational material between two or more people. That requires working within a holding process which can usually be emulated by a therapist for the group to follow and practice.

After a while one can sense in their minds "there it is" "jeez I really meant that by saying this" "Does that really mean what I think it means?" The group silences and unspoken reflectiveness emerges. No one can do wrong in the group and there is no intellectualising otherwise that structure deflates the "holding patterns" designed for the intersubjective relational spaces.

It is the "non thought" that emerges into "the" thought his way. (psychoanalytcal). If there were literal analysis, cognitve reflections by another in these situations Lilith heads for the depths. She only comes out when there seems to be less structure or control. It is very dificult to develop that trust and safety for intersubjective - relational techniques to work. She is the transferences and counter transferences working on instinct and impulse. When Lilith can form a working relationship to ones personality or emerge limitlessly without post event rebukings she becomes one of the most creative potentials available. Remember one must have a prominent Lilith to develop in the first place. I have Moon Lilith Chiron in Aquarius.

I have noted in some cases where Lilith and the south node or Lilith and Uranus acts out continually without resting on the seventh day. In some cases it takes over and seems to be there 24/7. That may not be completely detrimental to a person and they may be admired for such a strong and outwardly projected personality. They get away with it perhaps? Albeit misunderstood in more vulnerable and needy circumstances. They are full on by randomly disclosing elements of their life perhaps, and acting out of context with what seems extraordinary at the moment. They will have a good reason for their actions no doubt. Lilith most likely has already ingeniously-subconsciously crafted that event to happen; then she goes POW! "now I have got you, you son of a *****". If raw Black Moon Lilith was reading this, she wouldnt get it, it might confront her existence with too much reality. "She" may emerge with her war paint and banshee screaming. We might end up in the quite despairing "No Win No Win" position. (and she would feel like she had won like the Joker in Dark Knight)

Kingsley
 
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Kingsley, have you found that Lilith expresses more in women than men, or just differently? I know more probably depends on the strength from aspects but I do wonder how we integrate her depending on our sex.
 

flea

Well-known member
Kingsley
Lilith on the MC has expressed in work situations, having dealt with some really hard collective opinions (mainly by men) of women in work projected at me. The rage that this instigated, brought me face to face with an incredibly dark power within me, that I had not experienced before. Lilith is also conjunct Juno, so there maybe some merging of feminine archetypes in this story also. This is quincunx a pluto/uranus conjunct. All of which leads me into these threads with interest.

I do see society as not being able to fully understadn or incorporate the feminine as so many social structures are patriarchal. Yet on a personal level I find people open to experiencing a more feminine way of being that sits well with their being. The holistic expertialtial side of life rather than the logical codifying of things. Both I might add are useful ways of looking at the world.

I am currently experimenting with a stream of consciousness in writing and art and then looking at the process using logic and a more structured thinking afterwards. I think this is a creative attempt to move from no win no win as you say, and I have experienced it, to the win win. I made distinct efforts to integrate the pain and deal with the people who triggered things in a humane way. It really helped me move on, no baggage. Free for the new. But I move on knowing the depths of which I am capable.

So I really relate to lilith on angles, and also the capacity for creative lilith, having working through the pain and rage and separation. Not that I am there yet just aware and walking the path.

A REsonant Flea
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Interesting question Jamie. It does seem to work differently in Men. That is what several writers seem to also say. Perhaps the Moons association to the feminine and the Black Moon will work differently in terms of anima and animus. Some men have more anima in personality and some woman have more animus. If the man is more intuitive-femine then perhaps his animus (blokey self) is lilith orientated. Just a thought.

kingsley
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
I like what you write about your own experiences with Lilith Flea. You have evolved creatively with "her".

That sort of awareness is invaluable

k
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
Ok here is my BML stats: (All within 2 degrees)

Square Sun

Sextile Moon

Sextile Neptune

Trine Pluto


I think I feel oppressed by feminism and having women around me who hate men, simply for being men. My mother was a selfish woman who used "feminism" to give her an excuse to trample over men. To at every opportunity denegrate men for being men.

I think feminism is fascism as a result. My sister has BML conjunct Sun. My mother has it opposite. They are both the same in their unbiased hatred. The desire is not for a relationship, their desire is to dominate, and the begin with being condescending.


There is definitely something going on with BML. But all I can think of is that people like that are just selfish and should not be allowed in your life.

I reject BML. I wouldn't stay with someone like that for very long.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Sounds like Lilith and the Sun in relation to your parents could be about authority and who has the bigger identity. That could have been a competitive scenario in your family Night Sky?

In both your parents charts their Sun's and Lilith represent the previous generation, their own father figures. The "corrupt" nature of Lilith tends to be passed down like in some forms of bias like racial predjudice.

Perhaps you have seen enough in you time Night Sky and the Lilith square to the Sun in your chart challenges you to "not default" in the same direction as other have in your family. Perhaps you may sound like your father in more stressed circumstances and when lilith kicks in.

kingsley
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
I don't see my father as possessing the Lillith qualities.

But then he never "submitted" to anyone in his life.

Maybe its some kind of pride thing.... he has no Leo whatsoever.

He had BML square Sun with 6 degree orb which seems a little much.

My mother had it 4 degrees opposite her Sun.

My sister has it 1 degree conjunct and I have it 2 degrees square, but sextile Moon as well as Pluto + Neptune.

Seems to have got closer down the generations if you look at it that way.

I think it is interesting, but still can't say i have pinned it down to anything in particular. All I can think of is hate.


I think the child sacrifice is an interesting theory... because this is one of BML's problems in the myth.
 

Awakened_Pisces

Well-known member
I would never sacrifice a child personally. And the thought of a child getting hurt, from my own past makes me cringe. Which is why I kind of like Sarah Palin if she wasn't so radical. Her desires to protect children is a connection with me.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
The Moon by right rules over childbirth.

One of the main functions of the moon, of Cancer, is childbirth and mothering.


Children and child rearing is part of the Lillith myth. She had her children killed by a vengeful God.

She is the "dark moon lillith" the Dark MOTHER, Lillith.

This must be connected.

And I would add that pride and not willing to be subjugated both in males and females is part of this depending on aspect.
 

Squapius

Banned
And I would add that pride and not willing to be subjugated both in males and females is part of this depending on aspect.

That makes sense a lot for me...because bolder feminism is hidding behind the still-going women emancipation. So there are much women that are very dominant and want to rule over men at their reach. The same thing with the chauvinism, but less evident or considerable.
I know what you mean. I hate that kind of women too, when they start to be agressive.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
With my Moon conjunct Lilith 0 25' minutes I had never thought that my mother wanted to kill me off. Bazaar thought really, however in a way she has attempted that kind of thing psychologically. She doesnt really know that she does it, which can seem passive agressive at times.

It took me many years to arrive at the decision that I dont have to love my mother. She is definitely not a nurturing kind of mother although she did provide something in my up bringing.

She definitely has Lilith in her personality as represented by my chart. Differentiating her place in my make up has taken some time and perhaps becoming a psychotherapist - counsellor has helped me achieve that process. I can certainly understand and connect with my client's symbolic Lilith part or sub daemon personality. When I can connect with that part of the personality, they feel understood for the first time and are more likely to return for more counselling. It is Lilith that gets something out of going to counselling because that deeply supressed part of personality is finally being recognised.

Lilith and my Moon is also charismatic, intense and enigmatic sometimes. I seem to be able to handle others intensity. Perhaps that is the nature of the Aquarian moon too which can be detatched in situation.

kingsley
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
Kingsley thanks for sharing.

I see Lillith Moon, because i have sextile, but maybe this might also be Pluto opposite moon too.

There is something that doesn't want to allow anyone to tell her what to do. The love that is there is not unconditional. The condition is that you subjugate yourself to her, that you show yourself to be beneath her.

I see this in my sister, she looks for boyfriends who are weak, and who she can be superior to and it always works out badly for her, because she must be ABOVE.

Lillith is about sexual inequality. There is nothing sharing about this. In some ways i see this similar to Pluto. Pluto wants power, born out of fear.

Black moon Lillith wants power born out of pride.

Does it lead to good relations... to want to dominate someone...? Kinsley I ask you how do other women figure in your life... do all women act out BML for you? I think that Moon would signify mother, but maybe human relations can work ok through the 7th house and its ruler... or maybe Lillith has positives?
 
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