Black Moon Lilith Orb

leomoon

Well-known member
Leomoon, here's an explanation of what BML means in a chart. I hope you'll check it out, and say what you think about it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JjHOl04WdFU


I watched it. I also see how young she is, so I took it and posted to a blog I keep going for my granddaughters mother, (my youngest daughter)....One of the twins is big into mystical arts of all kinds. She loves Tarot, Witchcraft? type of things; and even Astrology to some degree. So she'll see it, and the girl giving the talk isn't much older then she is now at 18.



As to what I thought of it? Well, I do think it's likely correct but can only speak from my own experiences. For me, The end of the 5th house is my P.O.F. and quite a distance into the 6th house is my BML> (about 12 degrees separates the two) I haven't looked at the Asteroid yet as I only keep BML on my default charts.

My BML almost destroyed my marriage in my 40s. :annoyed: So it is a heavy hitter. She is likely correct as she describes how it can affect people, on both sides. But then again, the books published also say the same as BML doesn't bring us lovely presents from the gods, rather the opposite. :pouty: imo.
Since BML cannot destroy what I didn't create in the first place (in my way of thinking, i.e. we all create in lifetimes), I think it was shadow energy just waiting it's turn so to speak of something I once had going in a past life more then likely. So when I became vulnerable and (Neptune Uranus challenged), I acted to my later regret. We ALL make mistakes in life, and this one was mine.


All in all, I'd say from a personal perception, it rings true what she says.
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi Leo Moon
I remember our BML exchange and the general gist of its content.

Unfortunately, I don't keep all written exchanges and I no longer have your chart. Yet if I remember, you had natal MEAN BML in Sagittarius. I recall you speaking of your past personal cultural heritage, which I found interesting. Also, that it could signify 'a natural talent' that, in Sagittarian manner, may be and/or remains (un)recognised in the wider world. (This thought came after seeing Rudolf Nureyev's chart. Leaving and self-imposed exile from his homeland for creative success, never to treturn. His BML is in Sagittarius. Thoughts I worked upon to gather further proof! )

I don't work with aspects between non-physical points (my Earth influence??), so cannot comment on BML's transits to them.

Thinking purely in Astro. symbolism terms, Sagittarius is the sign relating to ( the furthering and expansion of) specialised rather than Gemini's informative general knowledge. This desire to seek knowledge to know ( everything ) works through the function of Jupiter.
Could it be that a BML in Sagittarius, according to natal aspects it makes, shows how and more importantly IF this is (n)ever possible?

It’s been observed that there are many sides to BML, of which one is the (self) denial, another is the non-admittance of that which, in this case, Sagittarius knows to be true. If such knowledge is oppressed, denied existence and the opportunity to surface, its images can live within to ‘haunt’ (other than dreams) one’s conscious self.
Deep down, do you really desire to know the truth because of what it can/will reveal about your daughter and her actions? As much as you would desire to, you can never truly know what went on in her mind, feelings, and spirit that resulted as it did. Your 'true knowledge' of her may not go far enough.
Could well be that your BML acts as an inner protector of your feelings.

Just thoughts; nothing written in stone. :smile:
 

david starling

Well-known member
Hi Leo Moon
I remember our BML exchange and the general gist of its content.

Unfortunately, I don't keep all written exchanges and I no longer have your chart. Yet if I remember, you had natal MEAN BML in Sagittarius. I recall you speaking of your past personal cultural heritage, which I found interesting. Also, that it could signify 'a natural talent' that, in Sagittarian manner, may be and/or remains (un)recognised in the wider world. (This thought came after seeing Rudolf Nureyev's chart. Leaving and self-imposed exile from his homeland for creative success, never to treturn. His BML is in Sagittarius. Thoughts I worked upon to gather further proof! )

I don't work with aspects between non-physical points (my Earth influence??), so cannot comment on BML's transits to them.

Thinking purely in Astro. symbolism terms, Sagittarius is the sign relating to ( the furthering and expansion of) specialised rather than Gemini's informative general knowledge. This desire to seek knowledge to know ( everything ) works through the function of Jupiter.
Could it be that a BML in Sagittarius, according to natal aspects it makes, shows how and more importantly IF this is (n)ever possible?

It’s been observed that there are many sides to BML, of which one is the (self) denial, another is the non-admittance of that which, in this case, Sagittarius knows to be true. If such knowledge is oppressed, denied existence and the opportunity to surface, its images can live within to ‘haunt’ (other than dreams) one’s conscious self.
Deep down, do you really desire to know the truth because of what it can/will reveal about your daughter and her actions? As much as you would desire to, you can never truly know what went on in her mind, feelings, and spirit that resulted as it did. Your 'true knowledge' of her may not go far enough.
Could well be that your BML acts as an inner protector of your feelings.

Just thoughts; nothing written in stone. :smile:


Would "Shadow Moon Lilith" be a better descriptive label in your opinion? "Black" Moon Lilith is edgier, and probably helped it catch on, though.

Have you heard of "Black Sun Saturn"? It's the same idea, using Saturn's point of aphelion.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
@ Frisiangal. Would "Shadow Moon Lilith" be a better descriptive label in your opinion? "Black" Moon Lilith is edgier, and probably helped it catch on, though.
Personally, I don't think calling BML 'Shadow Moon Lilith' would make any difference to what it represents and how it seemingly works. Are you suggesting the name has a (negative) 'psychological' effect that is prpojected upon how people interpret its effects. I don't interpret it as a 'shadow' of the Moon. It seems to be the exact opposite; it is inner action, not REactional response as is the Moon.

Do you think the planets would act differently in their positions if Venus had been named Mars and vice versa, etc.etc., OR even called Beauty, War, Peace, Reverence, Fear, etc.? And if the big 7 were named after the 7 deadly sins, for instance. Is interpretting astrological symbolism all an effect of the 'association projection' towards their names given them? Or did the names given in the ancient teachings arise through observation of co-incidences over a long period of time? Did the ancients even consider personal behaviour in their deductions?

Long ago I stopped thinking of BML as a 'she', and as an 'it'. I believe the femininity applied to it refers to the active inner feeling that arises from it, similar to how, or perhaps the same as, instinct can work. It is present in both male and female charts.

Have you heard of "Black Sun Saturn"? It's the same idea, using Saturn's point of aphelion

I had never heard of it, and could find no serious reseach on it through Internet. The Black Sun represents something else (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13389), I read G. Bode's book many, many years ago.

Is Black Sun Saturn something different to Saturn as the Night Sun in Eastern astrology?
Does aphelion refer Saturn's furthest distance from the Sun or Earth (as per BML)?

:smile:
 

david starling

Well-known member
Personally, I don't think calling BML 'Shadow Moon Lilith' would make any difference to what it represents and how it seemingly works. Are you suggesting the name has a (negative) 'psychological' effect that is prpojected upon how people interpret its effects. I don't interpret it as a 'shadow' of the Moon. It seems to be the exact opposite; it is inner action, not REactional response as is the Moon.

Do you think the planets would act differently in their positions if Venus had been named Mars and vice versa, etc.etc., OR even called Beauty, War, Peace, Reverence, Fear, etc.? And if the big 7 were named after the 7 deadly sins, for instance. Is interpretting astrological symbolism all an effect of the 'association projection' towards their names given them? Or did the names given in the ancient teachings arise through observation of co-incidences over a long period of time? Did the ancients even consider personal behaviour in their deductions?

Long ago I stopped thinking of BML as a 'she', and as an 'it'. I believe the femininity applied to it refers to the active inner feeling that arises from it, similar to how, or perhaps the same as, instinct can work. It is present in both male and female charts.



I had never heard of it, and could find no serious reseach on it through Internet. The Black Sun represents something else (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13389), I read G. Bode's book many, many years ago.

Is Black Sun Saturn something different to Saturn as the Night Sun in Eastern astrology?
Does aphelion refer Saturn's furthest distance from the Sun or Earth (as per BML)?

:smile:

It's ALL about the elliptical orbits, discovered by Johan Kepler, which destroyed the classical Greek model of "perfectly circular" orbits.

"Black Moon" is at the Moon's Apogee on its orbit around the Earth, where the center-line of the Moon's eliptical orbit intersects the zodiac when the Moon is at its farthest distance from the Earth.

The "gee" refers to the Earth, which the Moon is orbiting. With the planets, the farthest distance is from the Sun, which they are orbiting in the Heliocentric model, so it's called the "aphelion". Every planet in our Solar System has both a point of Aphelion and its opposite, the point of Perihelion, when its closest to the Sun.

Kind of difficult not to think of "Lilith" as feminine. It's said to be about the inner "bad girl" in a woman's chart, and how a man reacts emotionally to "bad girls" in a man's chart.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
It may not make "logical" sense to call the BML a shadow but i think the idea is it "feels" like we are being chased by a Moon's shadow sometimes, especially when something occurs and we verify that something via the transits ....its hard not to think of it as chasing us.
(whatever "it" is) :pouty:


I would however think too that a Virgo Astrologer might have true difficulty with naming something differently then is the custom, unlike one with strong Cancer or Pisces influences.

(just my "off the cuff" thought of the BML)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L56rAG5aK0
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Frisiangal's idea of "inner energy" contained within an elliptical orbit sounds intriguing. I'm using precession of the Earth's elliptical orbit for the tropical Ages, concentrated at the Perihelion. That's where the Earth's orbit is closest to Sun, whereas BML energy is concentrated at where the Moon's orbit is farthest from the Earth.

I could imagine an energy flow of some sort along the orbital center-line, much like the SN energy flow to the NN where the Moon's orbit intersects the Earth-Sun orbital plane on which we base our zodiac Signs and Houses.

For the tropical Ages, the flow would then be from the farthest (Point of Aphelion) to the closest (Point of Perihelion) regarding Earth's proximity to the Sun.

For BML, it's predicated to be flowing from the closest (Point of Perigee) Lunar approach to the Earth, to the farthest (Point of Apogee) Lunar distance away from the Earth. But, I see no contradiction, because of the extremely different nature of the Earth/Sun relationship versus the Moon/Earth pairing.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I am working on the chart of a friend, and struggling with Black Moon Lilith. There is little material available, including on orb of influence. The website I use displays BML and her aspects, but I have noted that my friends' Mercury is 3.5 degrees away from BML, but there is no conjunction listed in the aspect list. I do not want to miss including something as important as a conjunction here, so my question is, what is the effective orb of BML, and does a 3.5 degree difference qualify as a conjunction in this chart?

I use an orb of 3 degrees in longitude and about 1-1.5 degrees in declination.
 

david starling

Well-known member
There's also the counterpart to BML, which is being called White Moon Selene. It's the other end of the centerline of Moon's elliptical orbit around the Earth. Same orb would apply to both. I see no logical reasons to ignore WMS entirely, and focus ONLY on BML. It would be like focusing only on the SN and ignoring the NN.
 
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