Ecliptique
Well-known member
It's noted, Opal.
Ecliptique.
Ecliptique.
Most house systems work near the poles. They may not work the way astrologers want them to work, but that's a different issue. If you don't mind the larger or smaller houses (and the increased probability of intercepted signs and houses) then you can always get valid house cusps and a valid chart.
The only house systems which don't work everywhere are Placidus and Koch. These two simply aren't defined above the Arctic Circle, and attempting to cast a chart above the Arctic Circle will fall back to a different house system (for example Astro.com will switch to Porphyry). Note that this doesn't mean Placidus and Koch are "bad" systems or inaccurate. It just means that (at least for now) they're incomplete systems, and the formulas used to calculate them need to be updated to do something when above the Arctic Circle. (However, just switching to Equal or related systems isn't ideal, because doing so will result in discontinuous sudden jumps of house positions when stepping across the Arctic Circle.) Actually, there are ways to make the Placidus formulas work near the poles, but they require weird 3D models which can result in certain houses being out of order, absent altogether, or intersecting the ecliptic in more than one place, which of course doesn't display well in a classic 2D wheel chart.
Speaking of 3D models, part of the problem with houses near the poles is due to their attempt to fit a 3D model of the celestial sphere onto a 2D wheel chart. Houses are related to the local horizon and divide local space, with the 1st house on or near the Eastern horizon, and the 10th house on the meridian. In other words, visualizing houses is similar to visualizing divisions along the prime vertical running from East to Zenith point straight up to West. Near the equator, the ecliptic or plane of the zodiac is close to the plane of the prime vertical, so signs and houses are similar. However, near the poles, the ecliptic is near the horizon, which is 90 degrees offset from the prime vertical. Trying to shoehorn houses into house cusps defined along the ecliptic doesn't work well, and results in abnormally large/small houses, which some don't like.
For this reason, I like 3D house systems, which don't just define divisions along the ecliptic, but are actually areas of local space. That means there are no longer house cusps in the classic sense defined by a single zodiac position, since two bodies at the same zodiac position can be in different houses, because their ecliptic latitudes differ. My favorite is 3D Campanus, because it's the simplest and most fundamental, and is an Equal system in which each house covers exactly 30 degrees (if you look at its 3D model). Campanus is defined as 12 equal sized wedges covering the local horizon, which makes sense since houses are inherently related to the local horizon. It's only the 2D cross section as displayed in a classic 2D wheel in which Campanus houses appear to be irregularly sized. In summary, Campanus houses (in its 3D model) is the only system in which all three of the following are true:
- All 12 houses are equal sized and cover the same amount of the celestial sphere.
- A planet above the horizon will always be in houses 7-12, and a planet below the horizon will always be in houses 1-6.
- A planet east of the meridian will always be in houses 1-3 or 10-12, and a planet west of the meridian will always be in houses 4-9.
Yes, for a birth location on or above the Arctic Circle, there will be one time each day when the plane of the ecliptic is exactly overlapping with the horizon. That will make all 2D quadrant house systems (such as Campanus) have the Asc and MC exactly Conjunct or exactly Opposite each other, which will produce several zero sized houses.In the case of a birth on the Polar Circle whose time gives a local sidereal time = 18h 00mn 00s, the 2D Campanus system (like Regiomontanus) indicates: cusp Houses X, XI & XII = 0° Capricorn and cusps Houses II & III = 0° Cancer (cusp House I = 0° Aries). In this case, does Campanus 3D offer a possible solution of astral position in the XI and II houses?
Certainly I recommend 3D Campanus, if one has software that can display it. For example, see the image below for a comparison between 2D and 3D Campanus. On the left is a classic 2D Campanus wheel, and on the right is the corresponding 3D Campanus on a "chart sphere". Both charts are showing the exact same data and are animating through the same times.For your studies of birth charts near or beyond the Polar Circle, do you regularly use the 3D Campanus model or the 2D Campanus system by considering the points obtained on the Grand vertical projected on the ecliptic circle?
Yes, for a birth location on or above the Arctic Circle, there will be one time each day when the plane of the ecliptic is exactly overlapping with the horizon. That will make all 2D quadrant house systems (such as Campanus) have the Asc and MC exactly Conjunct or exactly Opposite each other, which will produce several zero sized houses.
Fortunately, that issue doesn't affect 3D Campanus houses! Each 3D house is still always an equal sized wedge covering the same 1/12 of the celestial sphere, even above the poles. The fact that the 2D house cusps are small doesn't matter. Remember, when looking in 3D, all houses (such as XI and II) are no longer defined by a single zodiac position. Instead, they're 3D lines which pass through multiple zodiac positions depending on their latitude. That means 3D houses no longer have "cusps" in the simple sense that their boundaries can be fully defined by a single zodiac position.
Certainly I recommend 3D Campanus, if one has software that can display it. For example, see the image below for a comparison between 2D and 3D Campanus. On the left is a classic 2D Campanus wheel, and on the right is the corresponding 3D Campanus on a "chart sphere". Both charts are showing the exact same data and are animating through the same times.
In the chart sphere, white is the horizon line, and green are the 3D Campanus house boundaries. The purple lines indicate the ecliptic and zodiac sign boundaries, which change orientation relative to local space during the day. 2D Campanus cusps can be seen where the purple ecliptic line intersects the green 3D Campanus lines. When the ecliptic is nearly parallel with the horizon, it will produce small 2D Campanus cusps, however regardless of how the ecliptic moves, the 3D boundaries are fixed in size and position and never move.
This is something anybody can check for themselves in Astrolog. Simply toggle its "Setting / House Settings / 3D Houses" setting on, and planets will be placed according to the 3D version of the house, after which you can notice planets will shift house position slightly. If you do this with the chart for ABBA singer Anni-Frid Lyngstad, it turns out none of her planets will change houses when switching between 2D and 3D Campanus. (After all, just because planets can sometimes change house, doesn't mean it will happen in all charts.) A simple diagram like the above shows how 3D houses work compared to normal houses, and when house changes do happen. As the accompanying article by Deborah Houlding says:1) By taking into account the latitude (ecliptic) of the celestial bodies, the 3D image makes it possible to place the planets in the houses in conformity with reality. We can note the change of house of Pluto at a precise moment which will be different from that given by the 2D image. For example, can you make an animation applied to the birth chart of Anni Frid Synni Lyngstad, singer of the group ABBA, born beyond the Arctic Circle?
I haven't conducted research to "prove" whether 3D houses are more accurate than 2D houses, although it certainly seems better for the reasons described! Note that 3D Campanus produces house positions exactly the same as 2D Campanus for objects exactly on the ecliptic, such as the Sun and Moon's Nodes. For other objects, especially those with larger ecliptic latitudes such as Pluto, asteroids, and especially fixed stars, they have a much higher change of moving to different houses.2) The interest is obviously to validate the 3D choice, according to the evidence of the importance of the latitude... From a prediction method, were you able to carry out a quantitative study with very high frequency results allowing the 3D Campanus system to impose itself for births below the Polar Circle or failing that in the rest of the world?
This is something anybody can check for themselves in Astrolog. Simply toggle its "Setting / House Settings / 3D Houses" setting on, and planets will be placed according to the 3D version of the house, after which you can notice planets will shift house position slightly. If you do this with the chart for ABBA singer Anni-Frid Lyngstad, it turns out none of her planets will change houses when switching between 2D and 3D Campanus. (After all, just because planets can sometimes change house, doesn't mean it will happen in all charts.) A simple diagram like the above shows how 3D houses work compared to normal houses, and when house changes do happen. As the accompanying article by Deborah Houlding says:
"Rudhyar also proposed that a future development of the houses could utilize Campanus as the basis of a three dimensional 'birth sphere', in which the effect of planetary latitude could be fully acknowledged; although to do so requires some alternative way of representing this information other than our two-dimensional chart forms which only show measurements along the ecliptic. Those who consider the three dimensional perspective important, argue that defining house positions by zodiacal degree alone can often prove inaccurate since it assumes that the cusps cut through the ecliptic in a straight line whereas in reality the lines are curved..."
I haven't conducted research to "prove" whether 3D houses are more accurate than 2D houses, although it certainly seems better for the reasons described! Note that 3D Campanus produces house positions exactly the same as 2D Campanus for objects exactly on the ecliptic, such as the Sun and Moon's Nodes. For other objects, especially those with larger ecliptic latitudes such as Pluto, asteroids, and especially fixed stars, they have a much higher change of moving to different houses.
For example, the Astrolog page for its wheel charts gives an example for how Polaris moves from the 2D 6th house (based on its ecliptic zodiac sign position alone), to the 3D 10th house (since Polaris is the North Star and therefore always on the meridian, so accurately considered should always be near the 10th house cusp): https://www.astrolog.org/astrolog/ast3d.htm#wheel
Well, it's challenging to scientifically prove anything in astrology. Only Gauquelin with his Mars Effect has come close to measuring astrological effects in a statistically valid manner. That means (at least for now) that much of astrology is subjective, and based on what feels right to each person. The celestial sphere is 3D, so it seems right to me to take latitude into account. However, others might think that the ecliptic is supreme, and therefore astrology should be 2D and latitude can be ignored, in which case classic 2D houses would be more "correct".maybe you are right that there is no need to "prove" anything since the reality is that the latitude would have to be taken into account?
Note that there are 3D models of all classic house systems. Any classic house system can be converted into a 3D house system which takes latitude in to account, by drawing 3D lines from the North to South points on the local horizon, which pass through the ecliptic at the point of the 2D house cusp. For example, Placidus houses in 3D can be seen above, which looks similar to 3D Campanus except the 3D Placidus wedges are different sized.Thank you for your spotlight on the Campanus 3D house model.
Well, it's challenging to scientifically prove anything in astrology. Only Gauquelin with his Mars Effect has come close to measuring astrological effects in a statistically valid manner. That means (at least for now) that much of astrology is subjective, and based on what feels right to each person. The celestial sphere is 3D, so it seems right to me to take latitude into account. However, others might think that the ecliptic is supreme, and therefore astrology should be 2D and latitude can be ignored, in which case classic 2D houses would be more "correct".
Note that there are 3D models of all classic house systems. Any classic house system can be converted into a 3D house system which takes latitude in to account, by drawing 3D lines from the North to South points on the local horizon, which pass through the ecliptic at the point of the 2D house cusp. For example, Placidus houses in 3D can be seen above, which looks similar to 3D Campanus except the 3D Placidus wedges are different sized.
However, I claim 3D Campanus is the best 3D system, since it's the one system whose 3D model is composed of 12 equal sized wedges, and is also aligned with both the horizon and meridian. For this reason, I like to call 3D Campanus "3D Equal houses", since it's an equal system in 3D, but is also a quadrant system since it aligns with both the horizon and meridian.
Note that fixed stars often have very high latitudes above or below the ecliptic, and therefore can have very different 2D versus 3D house positions. For example, the North Star Polaris in 3D houses will always be Conjunct the 3D 10th house boundary, since Polaris is always on the local meridian. However, in 2D houses the North Star will be treated no different from any planet in Gemini, and will cycle through the 12 houses once each day.I also believe that the latitude of the stars must be taken into account.
Gauquelin sectors and Gauquelin sector charts are actually rather similar to 3D houses, because they both measure position relative to the local horizon. For example, when a planet is above the horizon, it's always in Gauquelin sectors 1-18, and when a planet is below the horizon it's in sectors 19-36. That's similar to how when a planet is above the horizon, it's always in the 7th through 12th 3D houses, and when a planet is below the horizon it's always in the 1st through 6th 3D houses.From Gauquelin's statistics, I retain the general idea.