Bank of England Chart (Provisional) - Discuss...

[mystic777]

Hello Everyone,

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone here for being so kind; I am a young member but feel so at home here. You are all so knowledgeable. I'm only self taught myself

Well, I was doing some rooting around and found the founding date of the Bank of England through its Charter document, but without the time. I decided it must be midday because I am sure the BoE would want to make the Governor strong - and with Jupiter in 10th con. Sun no less!

I find it quite an interesting chart with intercepted houses but what struck me were the Solar Returns 2006-2008 which all had their angles over the Mars- Neptune axis. Since, Nepture is in 5th I think this may indicate deceptive speculation practices leading to fraud. Also, this years S.R. Pluto is con. Natal Saturn and in 3rd - which seems to be in its own intercepted house. Can we discuss this further and see what this might suggest for the UK economy more generally? Difficult times ahead I think. Probably higher inflation and increasing unemployment. What do you think?

Peace Profound

Mystic

 

[Night Sky]

Jupiter conjunct Pluto and Sun, not surprising. But very interesting... Pluto-Jupiter is connected to big money.

Venus in your chart is the AS ruler placed in the Eighth, which I think would make sense, but without a true time I wouldn't go into house analysis.

What do you make of the Venus possition in Gemini as part of a grand cross? To me this indicates a certain degree of instability and eratic behaviour, especially considering it is conjunct Uranus in Gem?

 

[mystic777]

Jupiter conjunct Pluto and Sun, not surprising. But very interesting... Pluto-Jupiter is connected to big money.

Venus in your chart is the AS ruler placed in the Eighth, which I think would make sense, but without a true time I wouldn't go into house analysis.

What do you make of the Venus possition in Gemini as part of a grand cross? To me this indicates a certain degree of instability and eratic behaviour, especially considering it is conjunct Uranus in Gem?

Hello Night Sky,

I would, hesitantly, suggest the following. Venus in Gemini in the 8th con Uranus (natural ruler of the 7th sign /house) would suggest a number of things. Firstly, that it has a challenging relationship with both the Stock market (5th house of speculation and with Neptune there) and with the Commodity (Virgo) market and an ever more challenging relationship with the Credit (Sag) Markets with opp to conservative Saturn in its own intercepted house. I would suggest that Venus is related to press releases and comms with foreign banks and that these (and their associated decisions) are manipulated by powerful and perhaps authoritarian figures (Uranus) within the 3 above named market places. Perhaps it makes radical decisions based on these powerful and unstable institutions. Venus in mutable grand cross would suggest to me that the Bank itself is associated with the flow (mutable signs) of money (Venus) and that in particular that it has to manage the extremes (Gemini) in its flow.
Just a few thoughts to begin with I guess.

Best wishes,

Mystic

 

[Night Sky]

This is an interesting topic.

In May 1997 The bank is privatised, it's governorship was previously nationalised. During this time Uranus was at 8 Aquarius on the IC and opposite Sun-Jup- Pluto. Neptune was on the verge of the IC.

Pluto was exactly Trine from the 2nd at 3 SAG.

These transits confirm that you have the right date. But not the right hour...

Mystic can you find a transit or progerssion to 25 Libra or 25 Cardinal which coincides with big CHANGES in this institution? This would surley prove your chart, and once proven we can speculate on the house-meanings, and also on prediction of what's going to happen.


My incling is that the chart is off by ONE HOUR. I suspect that the Ascendant is between 01 and 15 Libra. Look for big events in the history of the bank and then look at what's going on in the transits.

 

[mystic777]

This is an interesting topic.

In May 1997 The bank is privatised, it's governorship was previously nationalised. During this time Uranus was at 8 Aquarius on the IC and opposite Sun-Jup- Pluto. Neptune was on the verge of the IC.

Pluto was exactly Trine from the 2nd at 3 SAG.

These transits confirm that you have the right date. But not the right hour...

Mystic can you find a transit or progerssion to 25 Libra or 25 Cardinal which coincides with big CHANGES in this institution? This would surley prove your chart, and once proven we can speculate on the house-meanings, and also on prediction of what's going to happen.


My incling is that the chart is off by ONE HOUR. I suspect that the Ascendant is between 01 and 15 Libra. Look for big events in the history of the bank and then look at what's going on in the transits.

Hi NightSky,

On 1 March 1946 the bank was nationalised. On that date, Transiting Jupiter was at 26 degrees 53. Con Asc by less than 2 degree orb. The transiting North Node was at 26 degree 21 Gemini (trine Asc from 9th - on cusp of ninth). I guess that this could have an expansive effect on its activities, maybe.

In May 1997, progressed Moon is at 5 degrees 32 Scorpio (Square the MC/IC). If the Moon is to do with the public and the public face of the bank,and the IC is to do with its very foundations then a square to its foundations would bring about something new. In fact it suggests a total transformation since it is in Scorpio. It is also interesting that the Moon is exalted in Taurus which in the chart is on the cusp of the 8th house of transmutation or death and rebirth.

In Aug 2007 (time of the credit crunch) Progressed Moon was 3 degrees Aries (trine MC) showing to the public how important the bank is to the underlying economy and it was clearly a time when the bank was seen to do radically new things. At the same time, Saturn was at 25 degrees Leo (sextile asc in 11th) suggesting that it was changing or rearranging its relationships with organisations/groups associated with it such as Northern Rock. NR brought the BoE to public consciousness and saved their mortgages and savings (Moon trine MC and sex IC (Homes).Also Pluto was transiting at 26 Sag. The Asc of the chart is almost on the Pluto-Sat midpoint!

I am guessing that the Asc maybe about 25 degrees 30 in Libra.

Your thoughts? This is definitely an intriguing study!

Best wishes for Peace Profound,

Mystic

 

[Night Sky]

Nice points. 1946 gets us there a little more, however:

Look a little closer at the march '46 transits.

Saturn and Mars are at 18 and 14 Cancer

Neptune is at 8 Libra.


Nationalisation is not about expansion, expansion for the Government Yes, but not for the Bank, in fact it is a loss of control... which ties in nicely to Saturn-Neptune symbolism. The Ascendant must be at 10 Libra.

Pluto incidentally is at 10 Leo in 1946, and would be Trine the Ascendant, indicating a smooth transformation and handover of power. Pluto has to be involved.


Also....Pluto would have have transited the Leo Stellium in about 1939... It would be interesting if we could get a PLUTO RETURN CHART.

We would probably need a bit more information to really verify a true ascendant. I think that possibly you are right and possibly I am right, with the evidence and arguments so far. Are there any scandles, or losses, individual days which we can look at for transits? Keep researching.

NS

 

[mystic777]

Here is the pluto return (I think). I am starting to agree but still not certain. Why did you want to know specifically about the Pluto return? How would you go about interpreting it?

 

[Night Sky]

Here is the pluto return (I think). I am starting to agree but still not certain. Why did you want to know specifically about the Pluto return? How would you go about interpreting it?

There are probably quite a few Pluto returns, it goes retro quite a lot, and I would be interested in the final one.

However the chart that you have drawn up here is interesting. Jupiter conjunct Saturn in Taurus. Mars conjunct Pluto in Leo conjunct Mercury. It's definitely a powerful chart. And I thought it would be interesting.

In a human lifetime we have Saturn returns, Jupiter returns. Pluto is associated with collective rescources and money. It's one of the biggest financial planets around. And here we have it, if you add Moon and Uranus you've got a mega stellium in Taurus all angular. Which indicates TREMENDOUS growth of wealth and resourses.

I think you should be proud you're probably the 1st to ever bother making a PLUTO RETURN chart on the basis of one of my random thoughts. Well done.

Also I'd point out Pluto conjunct Mars and Mercury. Britain has fiercely resisted "intergration" into the Euro and fought to maintain its financial and economic independence, not just since the beginning of the European Union, but since the beginning of World War II when Hitler wanted to inergrate the Pound into the Reich-Mark.

The timing of this chart is spot on --- July 1940 ---

It's a beautiful chart, thanks for making it, and so revealing too.

Look for more events in the history of the BOE and also see if you can pinpoint other financial institutions, stock exchanges etc. I reckon that there is a synastry, especially between NY and London, simply by the fact that they are economically very close partners.

 

[mystic777]

Yes, I think there were a number of retro periods but I have just checked the ephemerides on astro.com through the 1940s and it seems that would have been the last time to have reached that degree. So it seems that that was the last return for the the current epoch.

Yes the stellium does look powerful come to think about it! Perhaps it also set the scene for the UK government to promote consumerism after WWII by believing that that plutonic power would only increase further indefinitely. Does beg the question though what the effects will be on the Bank when Pluto transits 10 Cap.

What then concerning the houses if 10 degree lib asc? How do we go about looking at them do you think? At a guess the 11th house would represent the Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) I think.

Best wishes

Mystic

 

[mystic777]

Here's the new chart based on our collected thoughts. But now Venus is well into the ninth and the Moon is weak. That doesn't look terribly good for a public institution that is so strongly rooted in society, does it?

Love & Light
Mystic.

 

[Night Sky]

In 1929 during the economic crash, Uranus at 6 Aries would have been opposite Moon and Ascendant, with a 10 Libra Ascendant chart. (my suspicion).

Also That Pluto in cancer -19 Cancer (under my prefered chart) would be crossing the MC. 1929 also marks a Saturn Return.

Since the BOE is one of the oldest fincancial insitutions in the world, there is nothing to say that it won't continue fighting for it's survival right up until it's next Pluto return.

Well done on the Pluto research. And good point with consumerism and Taurus there also. But on another note, consumerism is not just a UK phenomenon, and one Bank surely does not have that much power to be able to control the world's spending habits.... OR does it? Look at the original chart.... it's the chart of a beast.... Pluto, Jupiter, Sun ---- All closely conjunct in the MC in LEO.

p.s. If your original chart with 25 Libra rising is correct, The BOE has a 12th house Moon in a nice sextile to that POWERFUL stelium..... which definitely means that the BOE's power extends probably much beyond what you can find out on Wikipedia. A powerful hidden (12) Partnership (libra). Hidden Financial planning between western nations? You didn't see me.

 

[mystic777]

This is becoming stranger and stranger. I don't quite know why I was inspired to look into this all today. Take a look at the following synastry between the UK 1801 chart and my original one. There are some strange things afoot. I feel like I'm staring into the consciousness of the nation, literally. Take the original charts Chiron, for example. It is exactly con UK MC. UK Jupiter is con the stellium and almost exact to that Pluto. Since you mention hidden power, two things jump out at me here. Firstly, the UK exalted ruler of the 2nd (Uranus) is the 12th in Libra. Also, the vertex (a point I'm only just exploring after so many years) is in the 8th in Taurus! Uranus is also sextile the stellium. The gate of destiny in the 8th house of mysteries. What do you think about that?

Best wishes

Mystic

 

[Night Sky]

This is becoming stranger and stranger. I don't quite know why I was inspired to look into this all today. Take a look at the following synastry between the UK 1801 chart and my original one. There are some strange things afoot. I feel like I'm staring into the consciousness of the nation, literally. Take the original charts Chiron, for example. It is exactly con UK MC. UK Jupiter is con the stellium and almost exact to that Pluto. Since you mention hidden power, two things jump out at me here. Firstly, the UK exalted ruler of the 2nd (Uranus) is the 12th in Libra. Also, the vertex (a point I'm only just exploring after so many years) is in the 8th in Taurus! Uranus is also sextile the stellium. The gate of destiny in the 8th house of mysteries. What do you think about that?

Best wishes

Mystic

Yes.

I like your attitude Mystic.

I know the UK 1801 chart quite well, which is a powerful chart in its own right.


The reason I wanted 10 degrees Libra for the BOE was precisely because that's where UK has its Ascendant (at 6 Lib). But I am inclined to go with your chart after a little more analysis.... my chart would put Mars in the 12th.... very bad since it is terribly aspected.

The synastry is magnificent. I think what we might have to conclude from this is that both charts are two sides of the same coin. The UK in its present Political entity is TIED up with the Bank of England..... When the Bank is shocked and reeling from financial meltdown, so will the country be.... hence the close synastry. Also when the Bank is doing well, the country would also be doing well.

I was thinking about analysing the Bank of England and the Stock Market, but finding precise data is always difficult... And I also skeptically dismissed looking at a bank as just a bank and not really capable of analysis.

But I was wrong. You have proved that looking at a central bank you can in fact register all the big events not just of the bank but of the nation.


I think that the next step.... possibly tomorrow... would be to compare the BOE with other financial institutions, that have been around almost as long as it has.... + those institutions with their National governments.

The degrees 5-15 in Cardinal signs should come up over and over again in Western Economies. Whether this be Moon, Ascendant, Sun.... really important points for coming transits..... To find those charts out and then to make a prediction on those charts is a challenge I would be keen to look into. I think that the Federal Reserve has a known chart.... Will start a little of research myself, since you have contributed so much to this topic.

 

[mystic777]

UPDATE:

Received the following informaiton from a Bank of England employee:

Thank you for your enquiry concerning the Bank of England. We can help you with dates, but timings, I'm afraid, are a little beyond even what we have in our records! Days, months and years are what we go by.

Perhaps I might begin, however, by providing a little background on the subject of the Bank’s premises in general.

As you may know, the Bank of England was founded in the year 1694 to help finance a war between King William III of England and Louis XIV of France. At the time, there were calls for a national or public bank to mobilise the nation's resources. Many schemes were proposed. The successful one, from William Paterson, envisaged a loan of £1,200,000 to the Government, in return for which the subscribers would be incorporated as the "Governor and Company of the Bank of England". Although the new bank would have risked its entire capital by lending it to the Government, the subscription proved popular. Within a few weeks, over a thousand people duly subscribed £1,200,000 and, as a result, the Bank opened its books for business at Mercer’s Hall, Cheapside, on 27 July 1694. The staff of 17 clerks and 2 doorkeepers were chosen on 30 July and work started on 1 August. The Royal Charter itself was sealed on 27 July 1694, and the Bank started its role as the Government's banker and debt-manager, which it continues today. Interestingly, the £1,200,000 concerned was the beginning of the National Debt..."


See:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/remit.htm

and click on that of the above date ('The New Monetary Policy Framework'). The new Bank of England Act 1998 incorporating the change to the Bank's status came into being on 23 April of that year. Please see:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/legislation/legis.htm

an click on 'the 1998 Act'.

Hope this might be of some interest and a source for future inspirations.

Best wishes for Peace Profound,

Mystic


[Moderator note - In accordance with the Forum's Copyright Rules, the quoted/copied text has been pruned.]

 

[Night Sky]

Hi Mystic,

Thanks for the info which you have managed to garner, I'm not completely sure how it's meant to fit in with the story, perhaps you could do charts for these two dates?

One thing I did find though, was something of interest and to be compared with your original BOE natal chart.

June 1st 1998, Frankfurt --- Is the official date for the establishment of the European Central Bank. Do the chart.

We have Pluto opposition Mars and Sun, all in a t-square with Moon. So just like the BOE, this chart is heavy on Pluto.


Secondly, Venus conjunct Saturn in Taurus.

Thirdly, if you take midnight as the time, you've got Pluto on the MC, Uranus conjunct an Aquarius Ascendant, Venus in the Second house.


In part I think, this changes my outlook on astrology, hard aspects see present in the strongest most powerful institutions... Hard aspects involving Pluto that is.

Normally I would think that Mars nad Sun opposite Pluto would be unfortunate as a placement.... But I think my understanding has been wrong. Hard aspects are powerful aspects.

I think that the more hard aspects, the more that the thing born under that configuration has to fight. And the more fighting, the tougher it's going to be. What do you think Mystic?

 

[mystic777]

Thanks so much for that Night Sky. I can something to that. Firstly, though, the extra info was really just further background stuff.

Now, what I can notice straight away in both charts is that the Sun moon sq is in the same phase. Also, Moon and Pluto are practically at the same degrees as in the BoE chart (between 4-6 degrees or around the 5 deg mark). So I would say 5 deg might be a trigger point for banks generally. But wait it gets even more interesting...

Firstly take a look at this synastry chart between the European central bank and the foundation chart for the European Union. I think it is quite amazing.
Like the BoE chart I chose the time to be midday LMT and for the EU chart I chose midnight. Would you believe that Chiron in the European Central bank is affecting the IC of the EU this time where in the UK it was affecting the MC - but both close to the MC/IC axis. However, what makes it an intriguing chart chart is the close relationships of the Moon-NN conjunction and Chiron - again a way of healing the people of Europe in someway it seems.

Now, take a look at the next chart. It is a provisional World Bank foundation chart ( I got the data from http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTABOUTUS/EXTARCHIVES/0,,contentMDK:20035657~menuPK:56307~pagePK:36726~piPK:437378~theSitePK:29506,00.html
This time I have used a midnight chart so that which follows below may not be consistent or valid.
We see again Pluto Moon Square with Moon in Scorpio and Pluto almost in the same degree and sign as the BoE Pluto! Pluto with a Leo power. That IS Power I think- with Jupiter and Mars also con. in Leo. However what is also curious is that the Vertex in this chart is at 6 degree Libra conjunct the BoE Moon. What do you make of all that?

Oh yes, and the World Bank Uranus con European Central Bank MC....Have fun!

Best wishes

Mystic

 

[Paribas]

Jupiter conjunct Pluto and Sun, not surprising. But very interesting... Pluto-Jupiter is connected to big money.

Venus in your chart is the AS ruler placed in the Eighth, which I think would make sense, but without a true time I wouldn't go into house analysis.

What do you make of the Venus possition in Gemini as part of a grand cross? To me this indicates a certain degree of instability and eratic behaviour, especially considering it is conjunct Uranus in Gem?

This thread has been a good learning experience for me. I'd like to offer another possible perspective on Venus in Gemini conj. Uranus, one based on dual roles for the BOE in the public and private spheres.

The Bank of England was the ultimate in what we would describe today as public-private partnerships. It was a private, for-profit institution but its public charter granted it the closest thing you could get to a monopoly on issuing legal tender (official English, and later British currency). Other banks issuing currency of their own were permitted to continue doing so, but if they ran into trouble they were allowed to fail, gradually establishing the BOE as the only important issuer of Sterling.

This ability to generate revenue through issuing currency, coupled with the assurance of a dependable source of income through the government's purchase of gilts generated a terrific incentive for investors to invest in the BOE, further consolidating its position as the premier financial institution of the British state, and subsequently of the Empire. It is this fortuitous mutual support of the state that laid the foundations for the UK's financial, political, and eventually military successes. Finance collected within the country, and then flowed from abroad, into the new national currency, finance flowed out internationally from London into both the developed and developing world, supported by a UK government favouring free trade and investment, periodically guaranteed by military action, ranging from colonial domains to gunboat diplomacy, in turn financed by loans secured from the Bank.

Thus, the Bank was created to serve both public (or better said, state) and private interests at the same time. During the height of empire, when European powers increasingly adopted free trade and the gold standard, the Bank's international importance was also at its peak. There were smaller financial centres in Europe working with gold, but it was London through which the greatest sums of money changed hands. All of this had beneficial effects for the British currency as well.

The mutually supporting institutions of state and Bank, was a big innovation and gamble, Uranian I should think.


There is one additional point in which the Bank has a role suitable for a Gemini. The Bank has always been granted de facto responsibility for regulating The City on behalf of the State. For hundreds of years, this took place through the personal ties that bound Bank officials with other private financial institutions. The Bank's role in this relationship was not about rules and was never made public. It was all done in private, individually, and in secret. Anything else would have horrified everyone involved.

Some of that influence remains today, but was diluted under the Labour government, which gave some of the regulatory authority to the Financial Services Authority. The Bank has demanded in the wake of the current financial crisis that the government reinstate its role as primary regulator of The City, at least the part comprised of banks. This is designed to ensure London's continued prominence as an international financial centre, and even build upon it (at least in the time after the financial crisis, it is hoped, taking advantage of capital flight from the United States).

So...the Bank of England is a remarkable institution with both a public and a private role, and one that supports the view that much of the activity takes place behind closed doors.