ASTROLOGY of the 2016 US elections

[muchacho]

I reported on the CNN poll, muchacho, not on how you or other Trump fan's felt about the debate.

Trump's aggressive Leo Mars in the 12th house conjunct his Asc may backfire on him. I'm not much on the Twitterverse, but many women voters found Trump's demeanor and invasion of Clinton's personal space to be threatening.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-standing-right-behind-clinton

Recent wikileaks show that CNN is a mere extension of the Clinton campaign. I've already analyzed their biased polls in another thread months ago. Wikileaks just prove what we've suspected all along. CNN is not a credible news source.

I rather think this aggressive approach is what a majority wants right now because they want someone who can clean up Washington. Both Trump supporters and Sanders supporters liked his performance in the 2nd debate. So it's going to help him.

 

[muchacho]

Not only that, Donald has Mars out of bounds. All the more out of control. And speaking of pride hath a fall....

I didn't get around to addressing this earlier, but yes, Trump has lots of easy aspects going on and Clinton has lots of hard ones. That doesn't, as waybread pointed out, tell us who's going to win the election. Polls are a better indicator of that (if not a thoroughly reliable one), and right now, Clinton is ahead, and Trump falls farther behind the more he goes too far. The numbers are even more telling days after each event, when people have had time to process it.

Seems to me that Trump is just going to coast to the bottom on those easy aspects. No matter what happens, he'll convince himself everything's fine. "No, I won't drop out, I'll stay in for my party!" when Republican officeholders all over the country are worried about their chances of staying in office if they're associated with Trump.

Clinton, meanwhile, has been dealing with hard aspects all her life. That's put her in good fighting shape.

I agree, relying on a birth chart alone is too risky. It should be done with some actual ground data. And (unbiased) polls would be valuable data. However, the vast majority of recent polls are extremely biased and should better be ignored. Here's an article about the 11 point lead hoax:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog...ry_in_wsjnbc_poll_sure_looks_like_psyops.html

Also, are you aware of those recent wikileaks? That rather looks like the final undoing of HRC. And those leaks also seem to indirectly confirm her 8 am birth time.

 

[muchacho]

You astrologers fail miserably, when it comes to predicting the fate of politicians.

Meanwhile, the usage of meaningless, or obscure planets, like asteroids and the like, to justify the political prediction, is clearly embarrassing.

I wonder, is that a tacit admission that the major planets don't really work in mundane astrology and neither do solar arcs for that matter !

Well, there's this wild card called 'free will' that regularly messes with those predictions, hehe.

 

[muchacho]

Regarding the debate, an article in Euro News declared there was no winner, and that the real losers were the American people; and that it had the intelligence-level of a barroom brawl. I'm inclined to agree. The movie version takes place in a salloon or at a truck-stop, with Hillary reaching for a ketchup bottle as Trump closes in, spoiling for a fight!

The goal of HRC and her moderators was to sink Trump once and for all and if not then at least create talking points for the weeks to come (see Machado in 1st debate). They failed.

The goal of DJT was to confront HRC with her record and force the MSM to cover talking points they refuse to cover. He succeeded.

Trump won.

 

[david starling]

The goal of HRC and her moderators was to sink Trump once and for all and if not then at least create talking points for the weeks to come (see Machado in 1st debate). They failed.

The goal of DJT was to confront HRC with her record and force the MSM to cover talking points they refuse to cover. He succeeded.

Trump won.

His main goal was to discredit both Clintons among women-voters, but he appears to have failed in that effort. Now, he's stuck explaining his own alleged groping behavior; and, his looming presence and aggressive stance during the debate was counter-productive. He also distanced himself from Pence, his own running-mate, regarding Putin, and took a "know-nothing" position about Russia, bringing his own credibility into question. Sun and Merc in Scorpio is bound to help HRC as we approach election-day.

 

[JUPITERASC]

His main goal was to discredit both Clintons among women-voters,
but he appears to have failed in that effort.
Now, he's stuck explaining his own alleged groping behavior;

Bill Clinton apparently has no problem with shrugging off multiple groping scandals

for example
BILL and MONICA:
- are both Leo’s
- both have the Moon in Taurus
- their Venus signs match

Mars in Aries OPPOSES Mars in Libra.
There are many examples of Mars-Mars in synastry
So, they matched enough to get started.
His Saturn on her Sun shows us that there were restrictions, however.
How about being married
and
age?
That is what kept them apart.
And that is what keeps the Clinton's together: SATURN! http://astrology-love-romance.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/famous-couple-bill-clinton-and-hillary.html

and, his looming presence
and aggressive stance during the debate was counter-productive.

Trump is much taller than HRC

and that is obvious
its counterproductive expecting Trump to appear the same height as HRC
or vice versa

interestingly young HRC had dark hair

hair color is influenced by planetary ruler of ascendant
as well as by planets aspecting ascendant

HRC changed her hair color

He also distanced himself from Pence, his own running-mate, regarding Putin,
and took a "know-nothing" position about Russia, bringing his own credibility into question.

HRC accuses Putin of supporting Trump for nefarious reasons

and yet
Donald Trump is not endorsed by Putin
– but
Trump understands the Russian leader far better than Hillary Clinton
Branding Trump an apologist for the Kremlin is a set piece of the Clinton campaign
even though the pair have never met.

But he has a handle on what drives Putin
– one hardscrabble bruiser, perhaps, recognises another http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...presidential-campaigns-election-a7359671.html

Sun and Merc in Scorpio is bound to help HRC

as we approach election-day.

Trump ascendant conjuncts a powerful Leo Mars

 

[david starling]

Bill Clinton apparently has no problem with shrugging off multiple groping scandals

for example
BILL and MONICA:
- are both Leo’s
- both have the Moon in Taurus
- their Venus signs match

Mars in Aries OPPOSES Mars in Libra.
There are many examples of Mars-Mars in synastry
So, they matched enough to get started.
His Saturn on her Sun shows us that there were restrictions, however.
How about being married
and
age?
That is what kept them apart.
And that is what keeps the Clinton's together: SATURN! http://astrology-love-romance.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/famous-couple-bill-clinton-and-hillary.html

Trump is much taller than HRC

and that is obvious
its counterproductive expecting Trump to appear the same height as HRC
or vice versa

interestingly young HRC had dark hair

hair color is influenced by planetary ruler of ascendant
as well as by planets aspecting ascendant

HRC changed her hair color

HRC accuses Putin of supporting Trump for nefarious reasons

and yet
Donald Trump is not endorsed by Putin
– but
Trump understands the Russian leader far better than Hillary Clinton
Branding Trump an apologist for the Kremlin is a set piece of the Clinton campaign
even though the pair have never met.

But he has a handle on what drives Putin
– one hardscrabble bruiser, perhaps, recognises another http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...presidential-campaigns-election-a7359671.html




Trump ascendant conjuncts a powerful Leo Mars

Mars enters Aquarius on election day!

 

[waybread]

Just a reminder that this is a mundane astrology thread. There are at least 3 chat threads where non astrological comment on the election is welcome. The briefest of astrological comment within a post primarily devoted to anti-Clinton propaganda is not mundane astrology.

Sabumnim, this was your comment:

Regarding Hillary Clinton, she has been the sentimental darling or favorite of the female dominated, astrological community going back to 2004 !

I would read that comment as derogatory. Is that not how you meant it?

While I admire your capacity for definite non-equivocal opinions, you seem to have decided that certain techniques are unusable, either because you have not studied them, or because they didn't work for you. And that's fine, but it isn't an inducement for me to abandon techniques that have worked for me.

You are no doubt aware of the many astrological efforts out there to rectify Clinton's chart, or even to obtain her TOB through subterfuge with the Illinois Office of Vital Records. Have you done much work on chart rectification?

Rectification must remain an educated guess, absent a Rodden AA-worthy TOB, but I've worked a bit with medical astrology and Clinton's transits timed to her accidents, because if "reverse engineering" in astrology works, we should see some house placements popping out.

Using an 8:02 am birth time for Clinton, I've had fun with natal asteroid "Whitehouse"particle conjuncting HRC's IC (she did live there, right?) Asteroid Hillary conjuncts her MC with 1 degree of orb.

On Inauguration Day (January 20,) solar arc Uranus is partile conjunct her MC. Solar arc asteroid Hillary partile conjuncts her natal Venus. Her solar arc MC conjuncts her Venus with one degree of orb. Solar arc Saturn conjuncts her sun (1 degree orb.)

One interesting feature for those of us who use namesake asteroids and BML, is that HRC's natal asteroid William and Black Moon Lilith are conjunct within just under 2 degrees. That pretty well sums up the shocking level of demonizing she and and Bill Clinton are currently experience from Trump and his supporters.

Clinton's solar arc Venus, Mercury, and AC bracket Clinton's natal asteroid William and BML on Inauguration Day.

Solar arc Neptune will partile trine HRC's natal Saturn in Leo.

For anyone unfamiliar with mythological Lilith, she was the arch she-devil of Hebrew folklore: ex-wife of Adam and the mother of demons, who fell from grace when she refused to have sex with Adam on top.

Trump actually called Clinton the devil during the second debate. Wow. So no, muchacho, this kind of raw insult is why only Trump and his supporters claim that he "won." We don't confuse extraordinary bullying with winning an actual debate on the issues.

If we turn to the (rectified) Astrodienst chart for the US Constitution and solar arc it to Jan 20, 2017, we find asteroid Hillary conjunct the moon ("the people") in the 10th house (government in power in a mundane chart.)

There's more to be done with solar arcs on the election. Generally I use only the conjunction for the namesake asteroids.

Unfortunately there is no namesake asteroid Donald, Trump, or anything cognate other than asteroid "Donn." I don't know how radical it is, but I invite people to play around with the asteroids. To input them in Astrodienst charts, you need to input their astronomical numbers. The ones I looked at are:

3130, 4036, 228136, 4689, 270373. (Yes, there is an asteroid "Billary."

Anyway, post-election, it will be interesting to see if some methods are more accurate than others. If mundane astrology were an exact science, a lot of political campaigns and the stock markets would like to know about it. Fortunately, the Constitution still leaves the choice to the voters, via the Electoral College.

 

[JUPITERASC]

Just a reminder that this is a mundane astrology thread.

on the subject of reminders concerning mundane astrology

QUOTE

Mundane astrology, the study of heavenly cycles upon groups and nations
is the most ancient branch of astrology.
The affairs of a nation can be judged from the horoscope set up at the time of its official inauguration,
the birth chart of its leader, and various phenomena such as eclipses, lunations, great conjunctions
stations, comets and ingresses.
As in all mundane work, the meanings of the planets and houses need to be adapted
to the circumstances of a nation rather than an individual http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html

Using an 8:02 am birth time for Clinton,
I've had fun with natal asteroid "Whitehouse"particle conjuncting HRC's IC
(she did live there, right?)
Asteroid Hillary conjuncts her MC with 1 degree of orb.

clearly
for some, natal asteroids are designated as objects to 'have fun with'
however
time of birth for HRC is not known
therefore conjunctions to MC are unreliable speculation
so
although arguably fun
natal asteroids "Whitehouse" and "Hillary" are irrelevant in this case

 

[waybread]

JA, what is your experience with chart rectification? Have you studied namesake asteroids? What is your preferred birth time for HRC based on your own research and the many astrological rectifications available on the Internet? Which mundane charts for the US do you prefer? Sibly? If so, whose version? Or do you prefer Aries ingress charts alone?

Prognosticative methods revealing conjunction hits on house cusps, angles and planets are used in chart rectification. If you use a hypothetical birth time that does not "light up" during the event dates you input, you might wish to search further.....

But "playing"? Oh, fer sure. Astrology should be enjoyable as well as serious. Don't you think?

 

[JUPITERASC]

JA, what is your experience with chart rectification?

déjà vu
i.e.

[moved from another thread - Moderator]

Dirius, are you familiar with chart rectification techniques?

Are you?
you can't "rectify" a chart without a time of birth.

This is why its called "rectify",
because you take the time of birth you are given and change it to the actual one.

A speculative chart with no actual time of birth, its not really a rectification.

WHAT IS CHART RECTIFICATION discussion at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87000

by the way WB
four years ago
I posted the following thread discussion as OP:
RECTIFICATION TIPS
- VERIFYING ASCENDANT/DESCENDANT/MC/IC ANGLES http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51626

 

[JUPITERASC]

Have you studied namesake asteroids?

On any natal chart
there can be seven visible planets

i.e.

one Sun
one Moon
one Mercury
one Venus
one Mars
one Jupiter
one Saturn

PLUS FOR THOSE INTERESTED

more than one and a half million asteroids

i.e.

any natal chart
has more than four thousand asteroids
conjunct each one of its 360 degrees


because there are at least one and a half million asteroids orbiting our sun
FOUR THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX ASTEROIDS ARE ON EACH DEGREE
of the 360º degrees of any natal chart
with more being discovered daily

International Astronomical Union is less strict on naming asteroids when compared to other bodies

so
there are asteroids named
Mr. Spock of "Star Trek" and rock musician Frank Zappa

- as well as more solemn tributes -
such as the seven asteroids named for the crew of the Space Shuttle Columbia killed in 2003.

Naming asteroids after pets is no longer allowed
Asteroids are also given numbers — for example, 99942 Apophis

ASTEROIDS FORMATION DISCOVERY AND EXPLORATION http://www.space.com/51-asteroids-fo...ploration.html

'.....Most asteroids lie in a vast ring between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter.
This main asteroid belt holds more than 200 asteroids larger than 60 miles (100 kilometers) in diameter.
Scientists estimate that
the asteroid belt also contains more than 750,000 asteroids larger than three-fifths of a mile (1 km) in diameter
and millions of smaller ones.
Not everything in the main belt is an asteroid,
comets have recently been discovered there,
and Ceres, once thought of only as an asteroid, is now also considered a dwarf planet....'

 

[waybread]

The timing of election day is becoming less of a factor than in the past, because so many states now allow early voting. Over half a million votes have already been cast.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/da...e-already-been-cast-2016-presidential-n665196

https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar

This is why I used the inauguration date n my post #88 instead of November 8. Oftentimes the outcome isn't known till November 9.

Also, it is impossible now to time when the election will be decided, unless someone here is a better prognosticator than I am. (Somewhat likely.)

For any non-Americans here, I might note that the winner isn't a result of a direct popular vote, but the popular votes by state generally give it a "winner take all" set of Electoral College ballots. These are roughly proportional to the states population: its total number of elected Senators and Representatives in Congress. Only Nebraska and Maine split their votes proportionately. The big states do not.

The winner needs 270 Electoral College ballots out of the 538 total to win. The electors generally pledge to vote for the candidate who won the popular vote in their state, but the Constitution actually gives them some flexibility.

http://www.history.com/topics/electoral-college

They have a "Monday after the second Wednesday" meeting date. This year it will be on December 19. This delay gives some time for recounts or problems in getting an accurate tally, as happened in 2000 with the Bush-Gore election. So December 19 would be another sensible date for predicting the election outcome.

 

[waybread]

For anyone interested in inputting namesake asteroids, you have to be very judicious about choosing them. Obviously nobody would input thousands of asteroids and expect to get meaningful results. Nor would anyone work with all of the fixed stars or Arabian parts (lots) out there. I recommend the work of Demetra George (a hybrid modern and traditional astrologer) for anyone interested in working with asteroids.

I looked at asteroids Hillary, Billary, William, Whitehouse, and Donn.

See what you come up with. You can input them into charts at Astrodienst.

 

[JUPITERASC]

For anyone interested in inputting namesake asteroids,
you have to be very judicious about choosing them.

Obviously nobody would input thousands of asteroids and expect to get meaningful results.

Quite.
however
an ex-member posted the following comment on asteroids
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=447005#post447005

I use the following asteroids for love and relationship:


Erato, Amor, Bienor, Bosque Alegre, Compassion, Amanda, Frigga, Klyria, Medea,
Rousseau, Summa, Valentine, Anteros, Hathor, Jason, Moraes, Peirithoos,
Pocahintas, Sidi, Ubasti, Sappho, Amicitia, Patroclus, Cupido, Medusa,
Hephaistos, Demeter, Hera, Thereus, Valentine, Nessus,
Ariadne, Chariklo, Close, Rhoda, Damocles

Does anyone use others not here, and what do they mean?

Zarathu

almost forty asteroids for one topic alone

and
when a member commented on the numbers
they were told

No its a small number. I regularly use 700 of them.

i.e.
700 asteroids = twenty three asteroids FOR EACH DEGREE OF ANY NATAL CHART

 

[unique_astrology]

With transit Uranus conjunct her progressed Jupiter and transit Moon opposite her natal and progressed Plutos (in right ascension) First Lady Michelle Obama delivered a powerful speech in New Hampshire on Thursday.

The speech touched the most decent feelings within me and I am sure it did the same for many who have watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ45VLgbe_E

 

[sabumnim]

I would read that comment as derogatory. Is that not how you meant it?

I have no hidden agenda with the Clintons. They are scum.

This answer may surprise you, Waybread. But, there was a time, perhaps 10 or more years ago, when I thought HRC could have made a very decent POTUS. But, here we are in 2016 and she's frankly an old geezer with serious, serious, medical problems, all hidden, of course, and "baggage" (LOTS) and her husband, Bill, is just as bad and corrupt, who boinked a number of women half his age while President, and she, of course, just looked the other way ?

As far as I'm concerned, any self-respecting woman should have divorced Bill Clinton in a heartbeat, President or not, and threw him in the proverbial trash can.

Instead, to parade this former playboy and sexual abuser at her political rallies was simply the last straw for me.

I guess that because of my own Venus in Taurus, loyalty when married, is a big deal for me and the fact Hilary Clinton hangs on to her husband is just disgraceful.

Of course, Donald Trump is not the IDEAL solution....But it must be said that Canadians are really NOT fond of the Donald. Isn't it true ? LOL

I am hoping that, in 2020, the USA Dems and Reps nominates much younger candidates for President. Even Trump is an old geezer and way past his prime...

 

[Inline]

..............................

 

[Estrellero]

https://estrelleros.blogspot.com.es/2016/10/hillary-clinton-terrorism-and-evil.html

Hillary Clinton has a nefarious natal chart. The most remarkable in her chart is a stellium of malefic planets (Pluto, Saturn and Mars) set the fixed star Dubhe, an also malefic star of martian nature in Leo sign of fire in his ninth house (abroad or foreign affairs) square her Ascendant in Scorpio. Venus ruler of House 7 in Taurus (the declared enemies), and Mercury ruler of her Midheaven in Virgo, are in exact conjunction with her Ascendant in 22º Scorpio, on the fixed star Unuk or "Neck Snake", which "has a martian saturnian combined influence shown in a dangerous and destructive manner." Having three malefic planets together means that their harmful effects are amplified and reinforce each other. No astrological advice had the one who appointed a person with her ninth house so full of evil as secretary of state, responsible for relations with foreign countries.

 

[waybread]

I have no hidden agenda with the Clintons. They are scum.

Well, thanks for showing your hand. Doesn't this disqualify you from making an objective astrological assessment of the 2016 election?

I hope we never call other human beings "scum." I find Donald Trump wildly unsuitable to be president. But I don't wish bad things to happen to him. He is still a human being.

You've raised an important astrological issue, which is that if you truly have hate in your heart towards someone, you are disqualified from an objective reading of her/his chart or mundane charts affecting her career.

This answer may surprise you, Waybread. But, there was a time, perhaps 10 or more years ago, when I thought HRC could have made a very decent POTUS. But, here we are in 2016 and she's frankly an old geezer with serious, serious, medical problems, all hidden, of course, and "baggage" (LOTS) and her husband, Bill, is just as bad and corrupt, who boinked a number of women half his age while President, and she, of course, just looked the other way ?

I fear the alt-right has gotten to you.

HRC does not have serious health problems according to recent statements released by her MD. At 70, Donald Trump is an even older "geezer," as is Bernie Sanders at age 74. Only two records of Clinton "boinking" other women have ever been verified. The other allegations are unverifiable. Juanita Broaddrick and the other accusers (unfortunately for them) have been unable to tell a sufficiently consistent story to give their allegations legal credibility.

As far as I'm concerned, any self-respecting woman should have divorced Bill Clinton in a heartbeat, President or not, and threw him in the proverbial trash can.

Instead, to parade this former playboy and sexual abuser at her political rallies was simply the last straw for me.

I guess that because of my own Venus in Taurus, loyalty when married, is a big deal for me and the fact Hilary Clinton hangs on to her husband is just disgraceful.

I don't know how old you are, or whether you are married or have been married. But marriages last precisely because imperfect people forgive each other their transgressions and learn to do better. You might divorce a cheating spouse in a heartbeat, but many husbands and wives do not. Who are you to judge what is best for them and their children?

Donald Trump overtly cheated on Ivana Trump with Marla Maples; and bragged about his sexual conquests. His staunch supporters cannot claim any sexual moral high ground with him.

Loyalty in marriage is a big deal for me, as well. But I've been married now 40 years across two marriages. Hillary Clinton did not cheat on her husband. She did not enable him or damage women claiming sexual advances, despite alt-right allegations to the contrary.

Of course, Donald Trump is not the IDEAL solution....But it must be said that Canadians are really NOT fond of the Donald. Isn't it true ? LOL

I am hoping that, in 2020, the USA Dems and Reps nominates much younger candidates for President. Even Trump is an old geezer and way past his prime...

If the "Canadian" comment is directed to me, I stress that I am a native-born US citizen and taxpayer. I currently live in Canada and am a dual naturalized Canadian citizen. I spend a lot of time in the US, where I am right now.

Incidentally, Trump recently grossly misspoke about the Canadian single-payer health care system. With Neptune square Mercury, facts are not his strong suit.

Citizens of most countries, including Canada, are astounded and horrified at the Trump phenomenon. If he wishes to establish (or re-establish) the image of the US as the leader of the free world, he is making a hash of it. Not to mention that many European countries are very concerned about Trump's misrepresentations of Russia and NATO.

I think it's a little shallow to stress age over experience and judgement. Have you any idea what being POTUS actually entails?

So here's the thing, folks. Mundane astrology isn't mere celebrity character analysis. It is about the future or history of a nation.

It isn't about demonizing the Clintons, unless you want to get into Jungian shadow material. A topic for another thread.