sprinthrussfed
Well-known member
what do you use it for in astrology?
ArchAngle42
Well-known member
Yes, it's an even mix of astrology, astronomy, and sacred geometry that fits the bill quite nicely. Have a look at [FONT=Arial, Sans, Verdana][FONT=Arial, Sans, Verdana]Glaucus[/FONT][/FONT]'s work over on the Linda Goodman forums.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/203096.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000070.html
piercethevale
Well-known member
I ran across this the other day...I haven't delved into it as of yet...a quick study of it gave me reason to bookmark it for study later... but in the interim, if anyone else knows anything about it already...give me a synopsis ... or if anyone else finds it intriguing as I do ...have at!
http://www.crystalinks.com/styves.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/styves.html
O
OrcinusOrca
First time I've been back to this thread since January 2009 and I'm pleasantly surprised that it continued on the way it did.
I actually got this idea reignited in my head after watching a documentary on Henri Matisse. It discussed how he used the colour spectrum to his advantage and how he carried a 12 part colour wheel around with him.
I actually got this idea reignited in my head after watching a documentary on Henri Matisse. It discussed how he used the colour spectrum to his advantage and how he carried a 12 part colour wheel around with him.
O
OrcinusOrca
I often use this theory.
I believe songs are impacted by the date in which they are written, the tones used affect different people in different ways. Everything is important, nothing is meaningless.
For example when I've written love songs about me and my wife I use Bb and C to represent myself (Aquarius Sun and Aries Ascendant) and D and Eb to represent her (Gemini Sun and Cancer Ascendant). Then I use other notes that represent other aspects of our charts.
I have a strong belief that C corresponds to Aries or 1st house and A corresponds to Capricorn or 10th house and I've given my reasons for this in the opening post. However, at the end of the day knowing which notes correspond to which houses or signs isn't as important as understanding how intervals in music relate to Astrological angles. The harmony of the 12 notes in music correspond very well with the 12 houses or signs.
O
OrcinusOrca
This is very inspiring! I have been researching this for a while and am extremely fascinated with the idea!I began doing the same thing about three years ago but discovered that some of the aspects do not line up. Like for example the trine, The 1st house to the 5th make a major 3rd at 120 degs and then the 5th house to the 9th make a major 3rd at 120degs. The same is also true from the 9th house to the 1st, but if you play all three notes together you get an ugly augment fifth chord (C-E-G#). This seems to be counter-intuitive because a grand trine (all three elemental signs) should harmonize with each other right? Furthermore, What happens if you play the intervals in the opposite direction? If I take the fundamental C and go clockwise 120degs I get a nasty sounding G#. Shouldn't all of the notes in a trine sound in harmony regardless of the direction? All though maybe because the planets only go in one direction the scale should do the same. Any thoughts? I also tried using a 6 note whole tone scale(C-D-E-F#-G#-A#) around the zodiac and it seemed to work. The tritones then become your squares and the oppositions become the octaves. I thought this might make more sense because the polar axises (Aries-Libra or Aquarius-Leo) have sometimes been referred to exhibiting the same qualities as each other but each on different levels or octaves whereas a square being perpendicular is two energies at odds with one another or crossing each others paths, and to me this screams tritone. I want to make an instrument that could play a persons birth chart. I am thinking of making a midi controller of sorts that would have 12 fader type sliders in a circle. Each fader would cover a spectrum of 30 tonal increments for the 30 degrees of each house. 360 total for all 12 sliders. The idea is that you could set each fader to the exact degree of the natal chart planet. This would allow people to actually hear the harmony of the sky at the time of their birth. But as you can see I am still trying to answer these questions of how all the aspects would work and what scale or tuning would be the most ideal. Maybe I need to throw the whole idea of equal temperament out the window and make my own tuning or scale. I could take an octave in hertz (440hz-880hz) and divide the total number of hertz by 360 tonal increments. Then each degree of the zodiac would translate to 1.22 hertz . Any thoughts or comments?
PS- Equal temperament is a very new tuning system(It was created only within the last 150 years) whereas the fundamentals of astrology are very old, Maybe they are not compatible? and Would it not make more sense to use an older tuning like Just tuning or Pythagorean?
It seems any 2 notes that are 5 tones/a major 3rd/trine work well but if you stack 2 major 3rds on each other they don't work so well.
You mentioned how "C-E-G#" creates an ugly sound, but C and E work well together (a Major 3rd), E and G# work well together (a Major 3rd) and G# and C work well together (a Major 3rd). In each case you need only to add the 5th to create the Major chord.
I've come to my own conclusions about this, 2 out of 3 always work. 3 out of 3 can works but it's the listeners discretion to decide if they enjoy the sound it creates. If you play all the notes seperated in an arpeggio instead of as a solid chord they can sound alright.
I've thought of using unorthodox tunings before, but it would take a lot of effort. A lot of non-Western instruments such as sitars use completely different tunings/pitch frequencies.
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O
OrcinusOrca
It's only my interpretation or perception. But I associate Aries with Red with beginning with aggression...with C major or A minor.
This would make Indigo be the equivalent of Pisces. Which makes further sense due to you mentioning "Indigo being the colour most commonly avowed to as being the colour associated with the Ajna...also known as 'The Third Eye'". I've always associated Pisces with spirit, with the subconscious...with B major or G minor.
Interesting how when you play a B major scale or a G minor scale on a piano that they use the most black notes whereas the C major or A minor use no black notes. This is the point where you take one step up the keyboard and everything changes most significantly. From black to white. From hidden to in your face. From seemingly more complex to seemingly more simple.
piercethevale
Well-known member
"Now because evil has five members while the good has seven, the good only remains by itself at the beginning and at the end. But, in the middle period of its evolution it dips down into the five and redeems the harmony of the twelve foldedness." Manichean
the Seven & Five
the Seven & Five
Attachments
piercethevale
Well-known member
Interesting revelation last night concerning the young prince George's chart... I wont go into too much detail but what started the inquiry was the fact that Mars and Venus have sequential order as to their respective integers involving the minute and seconds they have, Mars: 6* 7' 9" and Venus: 0* 8' 10", and that Mars and Jupiter are sequential in degree in Cancer: 6* & 5*... and Saturn and Jupiters' integers are totally sequential to one another, Saturn: 4* 59' 20", and Jupiter: 5* 58' 19". Look at the relationship in aspects and then check your calculator for what the ratio of 14 [which number I derive from my solution of the app. of musical tonality] is to the Quintile number, i.e. 72...you'll find that it is 5.142857... . A Septile is 51.42857... degrees! And the division of the 360 degrees of the Zodiac by 14, of course is the Semi-Septile. There is a connection between the 7 & 14 to the 72.
There are 72 Angels of the Quintiles and of course there are 7 Angels mentioned in Hebrew esoterica that rule over the days of the week. I'm assuming then there are 14 Angels, not mentioned or otherwise known of that are below those 7 in hierarchy but above those 72 that are also representative of the 72 names of God. There might be yet another level between those two to discover.
Ii is brought up in a number of esoteric accounts as to the Angels being the possessors of the music, light and colour is some various manner, fashion or concernedly specific as to understanding one precept or another.
I figure that the truth is all in there somewhere/
Just "connecting a couple of more dots" to the picture puzzle here...
'Dot's All, Folks!'
There are 72 Angels of the Quintiles and of course there are 7 Angels mentioned in Hebrew esoterica that rule over the days of the week. I'm assuming then there are 14 Angels, not mentioned or otherwise known of that are below those 7 in hierarchy but above those 72 that are also representative of the 72 names of God. There might be yet another level between those two to discover.
Ii is brought up in a number of esoteric accounts as to the Angels being the possessors of the music, light and colour is some various manner, fashion or concernedly specific as to understanding one precept or another.
I figure that the truth is all in there somewhere/
Just "connecting a couple of more dots" to the picture puzzle here...
'Dot's All, Folks!'
Mist Knacker
Well-known member
I notice that I tend to visualize colors in each of the different notes/tonalities. I notice that the sequence, starting from G, match the color of the rainbow.
G = red
A = orange
B = yellow (B leans kinda towards lemon while Bb is purely yellow)
C = green
D = blue
E = indigo (E is more towards violet while Eb is actually indigo)
F = violet
If you take each of the middle frequencies of each musical note and raise them up by 41 octaves to the frequencies of the light spectrum, then the colors would match each of notes.
http://www.lunarplanner.com/Harmonics/planetary-harmonics.html
In Jyotish, each planet is associated with a cosmic color, going from Red to Violet.
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/vedic/vedicastro8.html
So, using this principle, each of the notes could be represented by a planet.
G (red) = Sun
A (orange) = Moon
B/Bb (yellow) = Mars
C (green) = Mercury
D (blue) = Jupiter
E/Eb (indigo) = Venus
F (violet) = Saturn
An example:
C E G# A# D#
Two stacked minor 3rds, on the other hand, sound particularly harsh. These make a diminished chord where the the 5th is flatted (a tritone). However, if you use these intervals well, you can make some pretty cool sounding music.
G = red
A = orange
B = yellow (B leans kinda towards lemon while Bb is purely yellow)
C = green
D = blue
E = indigo (E is more towards violet while Eb is actually indigo)
F = violet
If you take each of the middle frequencies of each musical note and raise them up by 41 octaves to the frequencies of the light spectrum, then the colors would match each of notes.
http://www.lunarplanner.com/Harmonics/planetary-harmonics.html
In Jyotish, each planet is associated with a cosmic color, going from Red to Violet.
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/vedic/vedicastro8.html
So, using this principle, each of the notes could be represented by a planet.
G (red) = Sun
A (orange) = Moon
B/Bb (yellow) = Mars
C (green) = Mercury
D (blue) = Jupiter
E/Eb (indigo) = Venus
F (violet) = Saturn
If augmented chords are used well and with certain extensions such as #6 and #9, then they can sound good. Some gospel music uses these types of chords.
An example:
C E G# A# D#
Two stacked minor 3rds, on the other hand, sound particularly harsh. These make a diminished chord where the the 5th is flatted (a tritone). However, if you use these intervals well, you can make some pretty cool sounding music.
In DAW's (digital audio workstations) & sequencers, to get custom tuning, each instrument can be tuned to a desired frequency (e.g. 432 hz, 444 hz), either in the Pitch envelope editor or adjusting the finetune parameter.
Bjorkstrand
Well-known member
Libra = C
sage= D
etc.
Of course using music will get rid of decans. Too bad. Gone.
Jim
sage= D
etc.
Of course using music will get rid of decans. Too bad. Gone.
Jim
piercethevale
Well-known member
I don't know what decans have to do with the topic but you're pretty doggone close [imho] with you estimations pertaining to the Signs and their respective keys...it is the closest you and I have ever come to agreeing about anything astrological.
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Mark Sandborn
New member
I am a researcher, educator, music theorist and technology developer regarding color, sound, and language. For the past 18 years I have worked professionally in this domain. A significant part of my research is predicated upon the pitch helix regarding Shepard’s 1964 seminal work, along with the continued advancements made by Deutsch and Hajdu. I have advanced the logarithmic model substantially including a highly detailed mapping of the categorical perception of the hitherto undefined microtonal space. Specifically I have been focused on the harmonic science of sound (which involves both the study of music structure and linguistic structure) and the harmonic structure of the photon, the harmonic symmetry of the electromagnetic wave, and the harmonic science of tristimulus color. As I have found through my many years of investigating the topic of color and sound, virtually all research has been specifically focused on the relationship of color to pitch which is flawed in that it does not provide a color or sound symmetry solution, i.e., duration must be part of the symmetry solution. Most correlations between color and sound were a one to one non-scientific mapping of the perceived order of the incomplete visible spectrum color to the linear frequency ordering of the Chromatic circle of pitch (the first such instance being the color organ of Castel in 1740). Prior to Castel, obviously Newton proposed the 7 color rainbow ROYGBIV correlation. Upon the introduction of the opponency theory of color developed by Ewald Hering in 1892, as well as the tristimulus perception of color, these color schemes were proven invalid. In the last century, individuals such as Scriabin, Hauer, Otterstrom, and Malinowski began looking for other means to correlate color to sound such as the perception of harmonic key (correlated to the Circle of Fifths) potentially defining a cumulative stimulus similar to color tristimulus. However, none of them, or others could define the harmonic science correlating these modalities which most significantly resulted in skewed color palettes that could not provide any results defining properties of pitch by literal known principles of color theory.
Most scholars from either the fields of music or color are unaware that there exists a wide range of research on this topic within the field of linguistics dating back to the 1960’s. Specifically this area of research was initiated by Yilmaz (1967,1968) regarding the direct correlation between tristimulus color and the tristimulus formant structure of phonemes (vowels and consonants). Shepard also investigated this in his 1974 paper. My research has not only further validated Yilmaz’s research, as well as the work of others (such as Liljencrants, 1972), but has evolved the science considerably. The harmonic model which I have established is actually defining every attribute of music structure by color theory in detail and is a 1:1 correspondence at multiple levels of hierarchy. For example, I can define why a particular type of chord has a particular perception by it’s color properties. I can show why musical key exists and how scales are defined by their color properties, including demonstrating a previously unidentified logarithmic scale wave structure that is directly tied to the work of Hajdu and Shepard. Furthermore, I have taken the work of Yilmaz and shown direct correlation to pitch and duration which he strongly hypothesized based on the evidence. To be more specific, I can define that not only can pitch be correlated directly with color, but duration (rhythm) can be as well. My research is directly following on a substantial amount of other research demonstrating that vowels are correlated with pitch and that consonants are correlated with duration. My model also demonstrates that the duration component of sound defines 12 macro categories of perception (inferred by Risset) identical to the 12 macro categories of pitch perception defined by Hajdu. From these overarching 12 fundamental categories of perception, I have elucidated a hierarchy of both macro and micro harmonic structures, i.e., that I have a harmonic mapping of micro pitch and micro duration as it’s counterpart for which concepts such as micro scales, micro chords, and micro keys can be discerned and manipulated intelligibly through color properties. Two very important discoveries which evolved from this research were an understanding of a previously unobserved key structure for 24 tone temperament and the discovery that 7 Tone-Equal-Temperament defines a monochromatic color key. The totality of this science is a fusing of the properties of color, the harmonic structure of music, and the harmonic structure of language. This results in the ability to implement all of these modalities for research, analysis, music reading, music education, and to explore new frontiers within the visual, musical, or linguistic domains, or a combination thereof.
Beyond my theoretical research and writing, I have been intimately involved with how these findings can be implemented into music theory, analysis, composition, and music reading as an educational system. Since 2001, I have developed an entirely new music education methodology which implements these theoretical concepts. I mention this because the implementation and teaching of this system for nearly a decade has provided results which dramatically defy all historical expectations of music cognition and learning curves, lending credence to its correctness. Western music notation is still employed, but the organizational structure of the educational approach is dramatically altered. The use of properly correlated color which contains meaning is a significant factor for these results. However, just as significant is the ability to employ my advanced logarithmic model for both pitch and duration and easily convey these advanced and complex harmonic concepts to young students as if they were at the collegiate level. There is no doubt that the ability to define properties of color as they would exist for the visual artist, including concepts of color mixing and structural organization (i.e, color contrast, afterimage, complementary structure, primary structures, analogous relationships, etc...), are a significant factor in the linguistic communicating of all harmonic concepts.
The following links provide significantly more information regarding this science.
www.virtuosoism.com
https://www.facebook.com/Virtuosoism?ref=hl
Link to a PDF of the mapping of helical harmonic space: http://www.virtuosoism.com/Symmetry Field Circle Reference.pdf
Link to the book A Rosetta Stone at GoogleBooks: http://books.google.com/books/about/A_Rosetta_Stone.html?id=Qx1MBAAAQBAJ
YouTube link to Debussy’s Arabesque in Spectrum Color: http://youtu.be/PqItTVJSHnU
YouTube link to Coldplay’s Viva La Vida within the Spectrum Color format: http://youtu.be/PqItTVJSHnU
Most scholars from either the fields of music or color are unaware that there exists a wide range of research on this topic within the field of linguistics dating back to the 1960’s. Specifically this area of research was initiated by Yilmaz (1967,1968) regarding the direct correlation between tristimulus color and the tristimulus formant structure of phonemes (vowels and consonants). Shepard also investigated this in his 1974 paper. My research has not only further validated Yilmaz’s research, as well as the work of others (such as Liljencrants, 1972), but has evolved the science considerably. The harmonic model which I have established is actually defining every attribute of music structure by color theory in detail and is a 1:1 correspondence at multiple levels of hierarchy. For example, I can define why a particular type of chord has a particular perception by it’s color properties. I can show why musical key exists and how scales are defined by their color properties, including demonstrating a previously unidentified logarithmic scale wave structure that is directly tied to the work of Hajdu and Shepard. Furthermore, I have taken the work of Yilmaz and shown direct correlation to pitch and duration which he strongly hypothesized based on the evidence. To be more specific, I can define that not only can pitch be correlated directly with color, but duration (rhythm) can be as well. My research is directly following on a substantial amount of other research demonstrating that vowels are correlated with pitch and that consonants are correlated with duration. My model also demonstrates that the duration component of sound defines 12 macro categories of perception (inferred by Risset) identical to the 12 macro categories of pitch perception defined by Hajdu. From these overarching 12 fundamental categories of perception, I have elucidated a hierarchy of both macro and micro harmonic structures, i.e., that I have a harmonic mapping of micro pitch and micro duration as it’s counterpart for which concepts such as micro scales, micro chords, and micro keys can be discerned and manipulated intelligibly through color properties. Two very important discoveries which evolved from this research were an understanding of a previously unobserved key structure for 24 tone temperament and the discovery that 7 Tone-Equal-Temperament defines a monochromatic color key. The totality of this science is a fusing of the properties of color, the harmonic structure of music, and the harmonic structure of language. This results in the ability to implement all of these modalities for research, analysis, music reading, music education, and to explore new frontiers within the visual, musical, or linguistic domains, or a combination thereof.
Beyond my theoretical research and writing, I have been intimately involved with how these findings can be implemented into music theory, analysis, composition, and music reading as an educational system. Since 2001, I have developed an entirely new music education methodology which implements these theoretical concepts. I mention this because the implementation and teaching of this system for nearly a decade has provided results which dramatically defy all historical expectations of music cognition and learning curves, lending credence to its correctness. Western music notation is still employed, but the organizational structure of the educational approach is dramatically altered. The use of properly correlated color which contains meaning is a significant factor for these results. However, just as significant is the ability to employ my advanced logarithmic model for both pitch and duration and easily convey these advanced and complex harmonic concepts to young students as if they were at the collegiate level. There is no doubt that the ability to define properties of color as they would exist for the visual artist, including concepts of color mixing and structural organization (i.e, color contrast, afterimage, complementary structure, primary structures, analogous relationships, etc...), are a significant factor in the linguistic communicating of all harmonic concepts.
The following links provide significantly more information regarding this science.
www.virtuosoism.com
https://www.facebook.com/Virtuosoism?ref=hl
Link to a PDF of the mapping of helical harmonic space: http://www.virtuosoism.com/Symmetry Field Circle Reference.pdf
Link to the book A Rosetta Stone at GoogleBooks: http://books.google.com/books/about/A_Rosetta_Stone.html?id=Qx1MBAAAQBAJ
YouTube link to Debussy’s Arabesque in Spectrum Color: http://youtu.be/PqItTVJSHnU
YouTube link to Coldplay’s Viva La Vida within the Spectrum Color format: http://youtu.be/PqItTVJSHnU
piercethevale
Well-known member
This is so completely synchronistic in that I was just musing along those same lines as to there a pitch to light wave imbalance.
I pretty much am involved in the same research. The difference being , that I approach it with what experience I have from from applying vedic science, particularly through various forms of yoga, that, and faith and belief that the acquisition of knowledge will be by revelation, in that especially as that is what brought to me any experience to begin with.
If you will take the time to read that theory of mine more thoroughly and by a series of posts I have directly addressed the concept in demonstration to a forum of the worlds most notable and distinguished Astrologers that is only by approved membership...where all is conducted in a respectful atmosphere of sharing techniques proven to work between all the various schools of the "science" {when adequately understood, it is not only a science but, it is reveled to be the "Mother of all Science"}.
This "thesis", if I may be permitted to use the term, I have titled the "Seven and the Five" ...as Mani [the Manichean} stated:
"Now because evil has five members while the good has seven, the good only remains by itself at the beginning and at the end. But, in the middle period of its evolution it dips down into the five and redeems the harmony of the twelve foldedness."
http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=177
Now, if you're up to speed having read the suggested, maybe you'll understand that the Sabian Symbols when applied to what is indicated in the Tanakh by Kabbalistic interpretation, what is reveled is that the present creation of the Universe is the spawn of the seed of the previous one...which was constructed and designed by absolute perfection...and thus was predictable.
This creation is being allowed "to find it's own nature"...like a clear mountain stream finding it's own path to call it's own, This is demonstrated in nature with near to, but rarely, if ever, seen perfect examples of mathematical ratios.
God designed this creation to be allowed a little slack... in that it may possibly become more than the perfection that God is capable of producing Gods' self.
But the missing Seventh Ray... is missing because it is up to us to define it's pitch and wave length. ... We are to become the "Seventh Ray" ...the expression of it by our very beings.
...and it gave us the phenomena of believing we are hearing perfect music...when we are not, not really... The Angels must surely wince at times.
..but it also allowed us to create and by that the "Blues"...most appropriately named... came to be.
...and I do believe that the Arch Angel Gabriel and old "Satchmo" do get together and play it divinely ...once in a while... truly.
There's more to the Science of Astrology...layers.... like peeling an onion.
Check out another "thesis' of mine titled, "A Runic Explanation of the Zodiac" for more about that.
I have shown these theories to a small number of men of science, University kind, and have only received positive feedback to date, some are trying to expand upon it, all asked for copies... May God grant them insight!
OM Tat Sat OM
piercethevale aka Devananda, sisya of the Bij and protectorate of the Sadhan Order of India under the watchful and benevolent eye of Sri Prabhu Ram Lal.
OM Shanti, OM
piercethevale
Well-known member
After all, light acts like both particle and wave because that is it's nature...as it is One with the Logos, the Bij... that which is the Fount of All.
piercethevale
Well-known member
Alan Watts...
http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=177
http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=177
piercethevale
Well-known member
chrismastr
New member
Hi there!!
Quite interesting topic...
I need some help and guidance from the team ...
Please, can anyone explain the relationship between Music Chords and Zodiac Signs of this Wheel : http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=54051&d=1433933039
its not the circle of 5ths neither the Chromatic Circle ... but what is it ??
THANKS A LOT
Peace profound
Chris
Quite interesting topic...
I need some help and guidance from the team ...
Please, can anyone explain the relationship between Music Chords and Zodiac Signs of this Wheel : http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=54051&d=1433933039
its not the circle of 5ths neither the Chromatic Circle ... but what is it ??
THANKS A LOT
Peace profound
Chris
Attachments
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RoelsWorld
Member
This idea isn't new at all actually. Not ony Ptolemy and Kepler wrote about it, also others like for example Marsilio Ficino, Rudolf Steiner, Max Heindel, von Gleich, Marius Schneider, Alain Danielou and Rudolf Haase.
You mention that the signs have never been attributed to musical notes, well, those just mentioed above (and others) will disagree.