Astrologers Versus Astronomers

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Draft dodgers moved to Mexico?
More like an escape route to Canada? Any national embassy or consulate near you: whether a neutral country, or if you have any direct family member in that country (my father's from France) would do. I wonder if all the 50 states (i.e Oklahoma) will declare independence in case the US collapses. Seems like everyone's leaving CA starting in the 1990s: 3 decades to reverse the previous 14 decade trend since CA statehood in 1850 of more people leave than move in (and a lot of people did). Is this going to happen to the US when we all bail and flee north to Canada? or the passing through to Mexico to another country? IDK any draft dodger went to Mexico, but international law and bribing an official to get a "you already served in the military" card should protect you. (there's a story about Jehovah's Witnesses paid a 25 cento to the Mexican government to get that as an exemption).
 

david starling

Well-known member
Well, staying in college was better for me than fleeing the country. And, I learned quite a bit, despite not really enjoying the experience.

I also "learned how to learn", so I could apply that ability in non-academic areas, such as astrology. I have a better appreciation for "celestial" (a word derived from the Latin name for the god of the Heavens, "Caelus") mechanics than if I'd missed out on the astronomy class I elected to take.

So, I do have a complaint about the use of a Greek name, "Ouranos" (now known as "Uranus" in English), substituted by astronomers for the correct Roman name Caelus, when ALL of the other planets have their Roman names. There is some use of the Greek name Hermes, even though we still refer to the planet as the Roman name Mercury. That's because of the importance of the name Hermes regarding alchemy.
 

david starling

Well-known member
After being discovered in 1781, it took nearly 70 years for the name "Uranus" to become the finalized, official, astronomical name for the planet beyond Saturn!

By then, in 1846, the planet beyond the planet beyond Saturn had been discovered, and had become the finalized, official, astronomical planet "Neptune" in only about 3 months. "Neptune" was officially named BEFORE "Uranus"!
 

david starling

Well-known member
Pluto was discovered in 1930, after decades of searching for a "planet X".

It became a worldwide celebration, with hundreds of suggestions from the public. There were several people suggesting "Pluto", but there was a HUGE range of other names that were proposed.

This article is worth reading since it captures the frantic intensity of the search for the official, astronomical name for the farthest astrological planet--
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Demoting Pluto to less-than-planetary status was a slap in the face of astrology by the astrology-hating astronomers. Not all astronomers agreed with that unnecessary decision...
 
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Opal

Well-known member
Testy them dang astronomers. Pluto, the entity of, whatever they want to call it, has proven that it is Pluto, true to its mythos.

As is Chiron’s.

The Cosmos seems to have dealt the deck, and ensured, we would find the accurate name.

Faith.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Testy them dang astronomers. Pluto, the entity of, whatever they want to call it, has proven that it is Pluto, true to its mythos.

As is Chiron’s.

The Cosmos seems to have dealt the deck, and ensured, we would find the accurate name.

Faith.
There's still one that's partially wrong. Everyone intuitively knew it for 70 years from the time it was first proposed by a VERY emininent astronomer who even played an essential role in locating the planet. It was finally accepted by default, all those years later.

The other alternative was also wrong, but it never completely went away. This was the idea of abandoning the Roman mythology and naming it after the astronomer who identified it as a planet, rather than a faint star.

His name was William Herschel. He refused to allow the planet to bear his name, even though it was a very popular idea in 1781. So, instead, a symbol was created for it to honor him: :uranus: The capital letter "H" was attached to a vertical line extending from the orb.
 

david starling

Well-known member
There's still one that's partially wrong. Everyone intuitively knew it for 70 years from the time it was first proposed by a VERY emininent astronomer who even played an essential role in locating the planet. It was finally accepted by default, all those years later.

The other alternative was also wrong, but it never completely went away. This was the idea of abandoning the Roman mythology and naming it after the astronomer who identified it as a planet, rather than a faint star.

His name was William Herschel. He refused to allow the planet to bear his name, even though it was a very popular idea in 1781. So, instead, a symbol was created for it to honor him: :uranus: The capital letter "H" was attached to a vertical line extending from the orb.
Astronomers don't use this symbol, only astrologers. The symbol they use is entirely wrong, but they like it. :lol:

Here it is, with a ridiculous explanation if anyone cares to read it.


Well, it's not entirely wrong, since it's got an arrow pointing up to the heavens, and "Uran" means "the heavens" in Greek. But, nothing to do with the Sun or Mars.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Astronomers don't use this symbol, only astrologers. The symbol they use is entirely wrong, but they like it. :lol:

Here it is, with a ridiculous explanation if anyone cares to read it.


Well, it's not entirely wrong, since it's got an arrow pointing up to the heavens, and "Uran" means "the heavens" in Greek. But, nothing to do with the Sun or Mars.
The Muse of astrology, "Urania" in LATIN (unlike "Uranus", which is a Latinized GREEK name in place of Caelus, as so many have noticed) meaning ALL the planets would have Roman names, is the perfect fit. BUT, she symbolizes the PARTNERSHIP of astrology and astronomy, and the planet was discovered at the time when astronomers no longer WANTED astrology as a partner.

Urania was worshipped as a Muse and Goddess of the Heavens in both Greece and Rome. Like Mercury and Mars, Jupiter was her Father, but unlike them, her Grandfather wasn't Saturn, it was Ouranos/Caelus himself. The perfect naming for the first planet beyond Saturn!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The Muse of astrology, "Urania" in LATIN (unlike "Uranus", which is a Latinized GREEK name in place of Caelus, as so many have noticed) meaning ALL the planets would have Roman names, is the perfect fit. BUT, she symbolizes the PARTNERSHIP of astrology and astronomy, and the planet was discovered at the time when astronomers no longer WANTED astrology as a partner.

Urania was worshipped as a Muse and Goddess of the Heavens in both Greece and Rome. Like Mercury and Mars, Jupiter was her Father, but unlike them, her Grandfather wasn't Saturn, it was Ouranos/Caelus himself. The perfect naming for the first planet beyond Saturn!
It's no secret that most astronomers consider astrology to be an "archaic", superstitious belief system.
 

david starling

Well-known member
With the name "Urania" it makes perfect sense that :uranus: would be considered the ruler of astrology. Except, as its Muse, she more properly inspires, rather than "rules" it.

What fascinates me is, that as the domiciled planet of the sign Aquarius, Urania will be the ruling planet of the astrological Age of Aquarius.

I've personally renamed the planet for myself, but I can avoid confusion by calling it "Uran", which works for both the correct and the incorrect name.

Adding another goddess to the hegemony of gods ain't such a bad idea either!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
With the name "Urania" it makes perfect sense that :uranus: would be considered the ruler of astrology. Except, as its Muse, she more properly inspires, rather than "rules" it.

What fascinates me is, that as the domiciled planet of the sign Aquarius, Urania will be the ruling planet of the astrological Age of Aquarius.

I've personally renamed the planet for myself, but I can avoid confusion by calling it "Uran", which works for both the correct and the incorrect name.

Adding another goddess to the hegemony of gods ain't such a bad idea either!


From the article--
"Urania dresses in a cloak embroidered with stars and keeps her eyes focused on the Heavens. She is usually represented with a celestial globe to which she points with a little staff. She is able to foretell the future by the arrangement of the stars."
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The astronomers have definitely prevailed in convincing the mainstream culture that astrology is of no concern. In a modern dictionary or encyclopedia, Urania is always described as the ancient Muse of astronomy without even including the word astrology. And, no mention that in ancient times, astrology and astronomy were one and the same.
 

david starling

Well-known member
There's an obscure asteroid named for Urania. THAT'S the best astronomers could bring themselves to do for the Muse they still share with astrology!

So, I'm personally renaming that asteroid, "Uranus".

Ouranos/Caelus is unique among the Greco-Roman pantheon of deities as having been long deposed and no longer worshipped--just a 2good 2B 4gotten memory of how things used to be. (Before his son Saturn castrated him and drove him away!)

He never did have anything to do with astrology or astronomy in the first place.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
To their credit, the astronomers quickly got the names for Neptune and Pluto right. They listened to their Muse for those two. And, for Chiron as well.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I am really stoked about my decision to substitute the goddess of the Heavens and Muse of astrology/astronomy ('Urania" in Latin) for her brutally deposed grandfather, original god of the Heavens, "Ouranos" in Greece, "Caelus" in Rome.

The Aquarian Age will be the Age of the Muses under the dispositorship of the planet :uranus:, domiciled in the sign Aquarius. Sounds "Heavenly"!
 
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