Asperger's / autistic traits in the chart

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Thank you @Frisiangal ! You raised some very insight provoking questions. I will try to answer in the same order you wrote the questions and answer them in the context of the ASD diagnosis.

Hello again Alegria

To begin with, a heartfelt thanks for your feedback that is so very descriptive of how planets can actually, rather than theortically work in a chart.
Anyone reading can learn much from what you wrote and I shall read it many times to gain more 'feeling' knowledge into the astrology of ASD charts

You asked: -"Do you think the inherent traits of the 'controlling' trine outweighed the T-square effect, or repressed it?"- I don't understand this question, would you please elaborate on it? I think I might be missing something about how T-Squares function

If you do a google search you will find many pages describing how different aspects function.
I can only write how I would perceive the two aspects from Moon to function from an objective astrological perspective

Moon represents the 'automatic reactional response without forethought (Mercury)' through an inbred instinctive feeling pattern that governs one's behaviour. When linked to a personal planet, Pluto represents the 'I must, 'I have to' of a controlling power, not necessarily detrimental, that works with it. In a soft aspect as a trine, in AIR, the signs which all refer to the mentality in inter-relating with another, there should be freedom of (thought) movement in how one goes about that. Moon might well react to situations with an 'I can't help it, I feel inwardly compelled to REact in this manner.

A Moon in Aquarius may have a reputation for being FIXED upon its needy freedom of independence, whilst the sign Libra prefers the 'we together' mentality. As Pluto is retrograde in the sign, it may place an overpowering spoke in that togetherness wheel. A person may want to inter-relate with/to another, yet there is something in the retrograde position that says, 'I have to do it this way' in whatever is undertaken in the realms of life (houses) in which the planets are situated. Pluto in Libra tends to transform the 'we together' towards 'we as individuals within a relationship'. It's a natural trait in one's own nature, yet it can cause issues with those who act or react differently to situations through their own chart positions

A T-square, of which there are several in your chart, can be the literal spoke in the turning wheel of the FIXED signs, whose agility towards movement of any kind is slow at the best of times. Taurus does not seek independence, it wants physical Safety through Security and Stability. How Moon feels to motivate what Sun wants are two totally different things, UNLESS thay can work together, preferring not to make any kind of change to the situations each finds themselves in, and stay FIXED to.
'The bringer of change' is represented by the planet Uranus, and it is the 3rd planet on the FIXED wheel. In Scorpio, it attempts to bring change to the inner emotional depth of one's feelings. Yet it is also retrograde; subdued.

The T-square between Venus-Mars-Pluto is in the Cardinal signs in whatever house system is used. Planets in the cardinal signs are an active, of prime importance, aspect of one's nature because their function is so personal towards one's well being. Harsh aspects depict conflict (square) and confrontation (opposition) to be met in life. A desire for personal love and adoration (Venus trine Neptune) can be hampered by internal
stirrings of vulnerable feelings (Mars in Cancer) that is forced by (Pluto). Uncontrolled internal rage can occur, over which a Moon opposing Saturn (controlled discipline) cannoty contain.

Another aspect I would love to understand more is the Thor Hammer. All I can gather from what I have read so far on Thor's Hammer is that focusing on expressing the healthy neptunian qualities would help with the tension this aspect brings...... As you said: -"Differences in orbs taken might question the validity of a Thor's hammer with the Sun. Chiron in the 1st house would be within orb."- I wonder how this comes into play within the ASD cont

I think that much depends upon an accurate time of birth and whether Pisces is or is not rising, AND the choice of house system used, to interpret the meaning of/behind Neptune. The medical astrology through which I was taught in the late 1980's placed 'health patterns' (and not 6th house disease) in the 9th house, also the house of one's convictions through belief patterns as mentioned before. Neptune can have a weakening effect upon any planet with which it interacts in harsh aspect.

IF it is part of the Thor's hammer to natal Sun, you could ask yourself in how far do you believe and have faith in yourself? You may want to, yet it requires such a lot of effort if you do, without knowing how it will turn out. That's the strenuous challenge of, and/or otherwise the internal pain (Chiron) with which you live.

Saturn and Neptune are total opposites.
Saturn represents the manifested physical life in all its facets. Being aware of just how far one can go (9th house) before drawing the line of resistance that says, 'this far and no further' is its strength. Neptune represents the intangible beyond (9th house) of manifestation which cannot be physically proven; only internally experienced. It's also retrograde ... unprove? That doesn't agree with what motivates a Sun in Taurus; the physical shown by fac

Both Saturn and Neptune are in non-physical signs (and houses?). The one through suppression of feeling, the other through its spiritual ideals. This can place a weight upon a sign that lives for that which the physical side does or doesn't show.

How can the Thor's hammer be experienced? If myth is to be believed, wouldn't it mean having to throw one's self into the difficulties faced, to have them resolved when it returns.

Thank you for thinking along

Hope I didn't get carried away too far. :biggrin: :biggrin:

(This post underwent a peculiar glitch when trying to send and needed much correction. Hope it gets through in one piece. :smile:)
 
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Alegria

New member
Hello again Alegria

To begin with, a heartfelt thanks for your feedback that is so very descriptive of how planets can actually, rather than theortically work in a chart.
Anyone reading can learn much from what you wrote and I shall read it many times to gain more 'feeling' knowledge into the astrology of ASD charts



If you do a google search you will find many pages describing how different aspects function.
I can only write how I would perceive the two aspects from Moon to function from an objective astrological perspective

Moon represents the 'automatic reactional response without forethought (Mercury)' through an inbred instinctive feeling pattern that governs one's behaviour. When linked to a personal planet, Pluto represents the 'I must, 'I have to' of a controlling power, not necessarily detrimental, that works with it. In a soft aspect as a trine, in AIR, the signs which all refer to the mentality in inter-relating with another, there should be freedom of (thought) movement in how one goes about that. Moon might well react to situations with an 'I can't help it, I feel inwardly compelled to REact in this manner.

A Moon in Aquarius may have a reputation for being FIXED upon its needy freedom of independence, whilst the sign Libra prefers the 'we together' mentality. As Pluto is retrograde in the sign, it may place an overpowering spoke in that togetherness wheel. A person may want to inter-relate with/to another, yet there is something in the retrograde position that says, 'I have to do it this way' in whatever is undertaken in the realms of life (houses) in which the planets are situated. Pluto in Libra tends to transform the 'we together' towards 'we as individuals within a relationship'. It's a natural trait in one's own nature, yet it can cause issues with those who act or react differently to situations through their own chart positions

A T-square, of which there are several in your chart, can be the literal spoke in the turning wheel of the FIXED signs, whose agility towards movement of any kind is slow at the best of times. Taurus does not seek independence, it wants physical Safety through Security and Stability. How Moon feels to motivate what Sun wants are two totally different things, UNLESS thay can work together, preferring not to make any kind of change to the situations each finds themselves in, and stay FIXED to.
'The bringer of change' is represented by the planet Uranus, and it is the 3rd planet on the FIXED wheel. In Scorpio, it attempts to bring change to the inner emotional depth of one's feelings. Yet it is also retrograde; subdued.

The T-square between Venus-Mars-Pluto is in the Cardinal signs in whatever house system is used. Planets in the cardinal signs are an active, of prime importance, aspect of one's nature because their function is so personal towards one's well being. Harsh aspects depict conflict (square) and confrontation (opposition) to be met in life. A desire for personal love and adoration (Venus trine Neptune) can be hampered by internal
stirrings of vulnerable feelings (Mars in Cancer) that is forced by (Pluto). Uncontrolled internal rage can occur, over which a Moon opposing Saturn (controlled discipline) cannoty contain.



I think that much depends upon an accurate time of birth and whether Pisces is or is not rising, AND the choice of house system used, to interpret the meaning of/behind Neptune. The medical astrology through which I was taught in the late 1980's placed 'health patterns' (and not 6th house disease) in the 9th house, also the house of one's convictions through belief patterns as mentioned before. Neptune can have a weakening effect upon any planet with which it interacts in harsh aspect.

IF it is part of the Thor's hammer to natal Sun, you could ask yourself in how far do you believe and have faith in yourself? You may want to, yet it requires such a lot of effort if you do, without knowing how it will turn out. That's the strenuous challenge of, and/or otherwise the internal pain (Chiron) with which you live.

Saturn and Neptune are total opposites.
Saturn represents the manifested physical life in all its facets. Being aware of just how far one can go (9th house) before drawing the line of resistance that says, 'this far and no further' is its strength. Neptune represents the intangible beyond (9th house) of manifestation which cannot be physically proven; only internally experienced. It's also retrograde ... unprove? That doesn't agree with what motivates a Sun in Taurus; the physical shown by fac

Both Saturn and Neptune are in non-physical signs (and houses?). The one through suppression of feeling, the other through its spiritual ideals. This can place a weight upon a sign that lives for that which the physical side does or doesn't show.

How can the Thor's hammer be experienced? If myth is to be believed, wouldn't it mean having to throw one's self into the difficulties faced, to have them resolved when it returns.



Hope I didn't get carried away too far. :biggrin: :biggrin:

(This post underwent a peculiar glitch when trying to send and needed much correction. Hope it gets through in one piece. :smile:)
Thank you so much for this! A lot to ponder on.
 

teeheeteehee

New member
Hello everyone,

Interesting thread, I have tried to research this topic before. I am on the spectrum, diagnosed last year when I entered my thirties. Prior to the diagnosis, I was considered a 'shy' person that cannot cope with relationships/social situations. I personally think it is reflected in my chart by Mercury (in Aquarius) square Pluto (in Scorpio).

I am also uploading my natal chart and looking forward to your interpretations. Feel free to PM me for further questions.

Many thanks,
T.
Youre born just a few weeks after me, I am also on the spectrum. I have Merc rx in Aqua conj the sun square mars in taurus, pisces 3rd house, the stellium of saturn neptune and uranus sqaure the midheaven, uranus square the moon, virgo moon, aqua sun, aries 4th house, mars in 4th house, jupiter in taurus in 5th house, diagnosed on the spectrum, Autism also affects the senses greatly, along with Mercury, Neptune, check whats going on in Taurus possibly as well. Also! Scorpio, and Pluto in the 11th. Chiron in cancer in the 7th. Difficulty with friends and family, but I am a very loyal friend. Considered very Intense by many lol. Sag rising, 1st house stellium of Saturn Neptune Uranus and Venus in Cap.
 

ScorpioMaria

Well-known member
For autism, aspergers, or any great emotional or learning difficulty,
maybe any acute affliction involving the Ascendant/Sun/Moon/Mercury/Saturn/Uranus?
Maybe an exact conjunction with Uranus or Saturn can make the native too unusual or too serious, and unable to learn normally or fit in socially?
Also, maybe an exact opposition or square between the Ascendant/Sun and Jupiter can make the native very unlucky?

I think any of these aspects can manifest as autism, among many many other possibilities
 

Rosalind Bond

New member
Mercury sign can't be it. Only Geminis, Cancers, and Tauruses can have Mercury in Gemini, and only Virgos, Leos, and Libras can have Mercury in Virgo, but people on the spectrum are born year round.

Neither can south node sign. If south node sign were it, people on the spectrum would only be born within one 2 1/2 year window every 18 1/2 years, and everyone born in that 2 1/2 year window would be on the spectrum. But that isn't so.

But more general characteristics of Mercury might be involved: Mercury afflicted in some sense, for instance. That's the communication planet, and autism involves communication difficulties.

Greta Thunberg, who is on the spectrum, has Mercury retrograde and nearly (but not fully) unaspected (however, it does sextile Venus). Her birth time is unknown, so we don't know how her Mercury fares by house placement, but that could be another factor.
What a breath of fresh air this response is…….never allow astrology to determine WHO you are how you are these are symbols to guide you and it is in the study of geometry that you find yourself becoming more knowledgeable …the best way to understand yourself is to study your own birth chart as there is no hiding place for you then. I do think personally Autism, ADHD etc., could be connected with Pisces, Neptune and 12th house …Gemini, Mercury and the 3rd house for communications (mine is ruled by Mercury in 3rd house of Gemini with Neptune in the house)……my Mercury is in Pisces in the 7th house unaspected I desperately try to connect it with my Neptune in Gemini trine but its 6 degrees so I am clutching at straws……So Mercury and Neptune, 3rd, 7th and 12th houses seem to have a connection but it does not mean you have Autism you may think differently to pretty much everyone you know lol but thats okay too. So check out the markers but don’t beat yourself up if you have one or more of them. We are born to be our best and thats all that matters. If your wondering what on earth I am talking about well I blame Neptune 3rd and Mercury unaspected in the 7th its not my fault its just me. X
 

passiflora

Well-known member
Mercurial & Lunar processing requirements have changed dramatically since at least the 1960s with the advent of widespread electrification, globalization, and computing.

It would be frustrating to seek diagnosis in the individual horoscope without referring to wider social interaction, cognition, and mundane astrological patterns. The need for contextualized diagnosis is probably relevant in other "12th house" afflictions. 12th is 3rd from the 10th - it's the mind of the zeitgeist not just the individual.

If the OP is still around, you'd be better off using the individual horoscope to look for patterns indicative of treatments (which are mutable) rather than diagnosis of inborn traits (which are immutable).
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
Autism.
Here are charts of some celebrities with this syndrome. I had no idea it was so common.
I haven't included charts with no TOB, tried to post the most reliable birth times.
Are there any repeating patterns here?

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ElenaJ

Well-known member
The charts were chosen randomly, as I wrote earlier, trying to select those with the most accurate TOB.

Evaluating mercury only by sign, both Aquarius and Leo occur twice, no one has mercury in taurus, gemini, sagittarius, or cancer.

Only Fischer and Jobs have no mercury to mars aspects.
In fact, Steve Jobs, the tech genius, has only one aspect with mercury, which is a Saturn square! This was a big surprise, I would have expected him to have an active mercury..

Only 3 have no mercury to Saturn aspects, Hannah, Gates, Grandin.

Except for Gates and Grandin they all have mercury aspects with the outer planets.

Not sure if this is helpful.
Any other ties between these charts?
 

sentR89day

Well-known member
Steve Jobs? I was thinking more close to Narcissistic Personality Disorder! The astrology? His Moon and Mars in Aries! I'm not saying all Moon and Mars in Aries, have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I'm just saying it probably made his Narcissism worse, if he was one!
 

ElenaJ

Well-known member
Steve Jobs? I was thinking more close to Narcissistic Personality Disorder! The astrology? His Moon and Mars in Aries! I'm not saying all Moon and Mars in Aries, have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I'm just saying it probably made his Narcissism worse, if he was one!

No idea, I know very little about his personal life. But he was a genius in his field. And I was expecting a lot of mercury activity.

Actually I was surprised at how many there are! It's a long list.




.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
What a breath of fresh air this response is…….never allow astrology to determine WHO you are how you are these are symbols to guide you and it is in the study of geometry that you find yourself becoming more knowledgeable …the best way to understand yourself is to study your own birth chart as there is no hiding place for you then. I do think personally Autism, ADHD etc., could be connected with Pisces, Neptune and 12th house …Gemini, Mercury and the 3rd house for communications (mine is ruled by Mercury in 3rd house of Gemini with Neptune in the house)……my Mercury is in Pisces in the 7th house unaspected I desperately try to connect it with my Neptune in Gemini trine but its 6 degrees so I am clutching at straws……So Mercury and Neptune, 3rd, 7th and 12th houses seem to have a connection but it does not mean you have Autism you may think differently to pretty much everyone you know lol but thats okay too. So check out the markers but don’t beat yourself up if you have one or more of them.
I don't believe that you can be that old.:biggrin:
Do you mean that you have Neptune in Virgo, in Gemini's natural rulerhip house??

We are born to be our best and thats all that matters. If your wondering what on earth I am talking about well I blame Neptune 3rd and Mercury unaspected i
the 7th its not my fault its just me. X
(y)
Yes; and if only astrology could always be interpretted as such.:smile:
 

Phoebe_4evs

New member
My natal chart finds indicators I will have autism, mild anxiety and depression. I have Sun/Moon conjunction in 8th (Aquarius) square Uranus in 5th (Scorpio), Mercury in 9th (Pisces) square Neptune in 6th (Sagittarius) and also opposite Mars-Jupiter-Saturn in 3rd (Virgo), and finally a lack of planets in 12th (Gemini) indicates I'll never be sent into an institution when I was diagnosed at age 4 (Mild and high-functioning) at a time this was recommended by the "experts". I was checked for ADD, OCD, Tourette's and Mood/stress issues (no diagnoses).
Hi! May I ask, is your ascendant also in Gemini? And, your chiron, please (house & sign) 🤔?
 

sentR89day

Well-known member
On some website I read that Autism is related to Mercury and/or Uranus! I'm not sure I agree! But, it was interesting to read! It was an essay on the internet 12 years+ ago or something!
 

infest

Well-known member
1680820329184.png

I am self dianogsed with a lot of mental conditions including autism. I believe they all show in my natal chart.
i need to eat a specific way most of my life I've had headaches and trouble swallowing from eating, need to have autonomy of how i handle myself my routine my actions, I need to wear specific clothes shoes hurt my feet I stand out I may need to move all the time, cutting my nails gives very uncomfortable sensation for prolonged period of time thats distracting but also makes me miserable i've mostly had abnormal posture and gait
I have a lot of health issues and hypersensitivities related to autism, I offend people I don't relate to them on a level yet I do because I'm also HSP and absorb emotions (Neptune first house, scorpio moon 10th house, NN cancer 7th, venus sextile neptune lilith, chiron in 12th who knows what else)
 

honeylove1

New member
I think that's worth studying. If we see charts belonging to neuroatypical people that do not have Uranus accentuated, then there's the answer.

But my thought is that Uranus would be accentuated in most or maybe all cases. What better way to suggest there's something markedly atypical about this person?

My chart does have Uranus accentuated--at the midheaven, most elevated planet, decent amount of aspects--and I can't think of a single case where I've seen a chart whose native was known to have ADHD or autism and Uranus was in a quiet spot.

Something I have noticed is that in those cases, more often than not, there's a Uranus/Sun aspect. Mine is a wide orb sextile, but it's applying, so I think I can count it. TamaraL has a Uranus/Sun sextile too!
My son was diagnosed with ASD, his Sun in Taurus is in the 10th house conjunct Uranus and Midheaven. He is 4 y.o
 

morgainebrigid

New member
Hi,
Through a passion for medical astrology, I have a shoot-off side interest in charts on the diagnosed autism scale, which began when studying the effect and relationship of MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:) with physical dis-orders and dis-ease. Over the years I have accumulated a small collection of 70 charts from private individuals, internet astro. forum exchanges, and excluding those of the famous in the Astrodatabank of Astro. com.

What has been observed personally is that a Mercury link is present in all cases. Usually yet not always in harsh aspect. I guess this would depend upon one's personal mental outlook towards its societal place (Saturn) and whether it is bothered or unconcerned by it (MEAN BML).
Yet differences have been observedm according to the diagnoses on the autism pectrum.

Autism, as a diagnosed disorder in itself, has shown more than would be considered average harsh aspects between Moon, Mercury, Saturn, and Uranus. There is a link between one with another, sometimes all four connected with each other.
IMOOsamenor is correct in saying that the planet does not necessarily have to be in its ruling sign; it's their inter-connection aspect that seems to be decisive.
The harsh Moon would relate to the 'disconnection from feeling/emotional bonding',
Mercury would relate to the mental thought flow,
Saturn for the strict disciplinary order maintained throughout,
Uranus for the alternative manner of mental perception (electrical wiring - neurology?).

Spectrum diagnoses do not include all 4 planets linked together in some way, but (also) forming separate aspects to other planets.

What has been commonly observed:
ADD:
Mercury in harsh aspect to Mars is apparent,
Neptune (the attention deficit) forms a harsh aspect that is linked to Mercury.

ADHD sees the inclusion of a harsh aspect with Mars (brain activity) and Jupiter (the H of the disorder?)

Asperger's syndrome can include a harsh aspect to Pluto.

These are in no way conclusive in themselves. The 'research' of counter-checking with same data charts of those who do not have autism spectrum disorders has never been undertaken.

:smile:

P.S. Diagnosed spectrum charts are always welcome. Name not necessary but accurate birth data included.
Thanks.
I can't upload my chart, for some reason, but here are my details: I'm female, born 5/26/1962, in Colorado Springs, Colorado, at 10:37 am. I am Autistic, have ADHD, plus OCD. I believe I was born at Mercury stationery. Would love to know your thoughts.
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi,
May I ask if you were officially diagnosed with a dis-order on the autism spectrum?

Your chart shows a configuration that can find a correspondence to OCD, Moon (plus Jupiter-Chiron) opposing Pluto in Virgo 1st house that form the red triangle T-square (friction) to natal Sun in Gemini (mind communication).
Yet there is only a wide out-of-sign opposition aspect between Moon-Uranus, and no linking aspects to/between Mercury and Saturn that, altogether, have shown to form correspondences to an autustic pattern of behaviour (Moon influence).
A while back member-moderator Osamenor introduced a wonderful word for strong Uranus contacts .... neurodivergence. Uranus is strongly individualistic in its single-minded aptitude. Having alternatively wired perspectives to the societal norm may make one 'different' in its eyes, yet doesn't make for a 'mental disorder' label. Ideas have changed in that respect since you were young.

ADHD has been observed to show a Jupiter (hyperactive) influence to 'autism spectrum' linked planets. Yet the Moon-Jupiter- Chiron links are in Pisces, not exactly the most active of signs, unless working through its non-material 'other worldly' associated realm. There is a Mars in Aries trine Uranus, that could relate to a very active and assertive 'my way' state of mind that in the Fire element (temperament) could become aggressive of nature if uncontrolled.

The Moon-Jupiter -Chiron-Pluto opposition also forms 'the backbone' of the kite figure composing Venus trine Neptune in Water. Very sensitive and willing of nature, especially in those realms of the relating spheres (3-7-11th houses). Natal Saturn retrograde in Aquarius could stick to its non-changeable mental guns which could give Neptune's emotional illusions (in Scorpio) reason for diappointment if they don't pan out. You don't read of it often, yet there can be a cruel infliction side to Neptune in Scorpio. The sting in the scorpion's tail that could provide emotional satisfaction for any Virgo influenced planet; the only one in the Earth element (physical manifestation)? The non-physical astrological point MEAN Black Moon Lilith in Virgo could relate to living in a state of irreality (in youth) and an unacceptance in/of the manifested world.

If these planetary traits are recogniseable, would they agree to applied disgnoses you mentioned ........... by todays's standards???










:):)
 

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Humanitarian

Well-known member
I looked at the charts of people diagnosed with autism, some of them had a stationary mercury. kinda interesting
many of them have stationary planets in general
I have autism and ADHD and I have these (I don't have any station direct or retrograde planets):
Prominent Chiron in 9th house (Aspected to all planets (and a wide sesquisquare/sesquisquadrate to Saturn, maybe not counted), both luminaries, both nodes and AC, DC, Vertex, POF, POS).
Mercury octiles Jupiter, Neptune, Chiron (Jupiter is the ADHD indicator due to its magnifying or hyper- nature).
Mercury conjunct Pluto (both in Cap), square Saturn in Libra (Saturn and Capricorn are the autism indicators)
Uranus squarea Sun and AC, quincunxes Moon (Uranus is the ADHD indicator)
 
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