Asperger's / autistic traits in the chart

[Frisiangal]

Thank you @Frisiangal ! You raised some very insight provoking questions. I will try to answer in the same order you wrote the questions and answer them in the context of the ASD diagnosis.

Hello again Alegria

To begin with, a heartfelt thanks for your feedback that is so very descriptive of how planets can actually, rather than theortically work in a chart.
Anyone reading can learn much from what you wrote and I shall read it many times to gain more 'feeling' knowledge into the astrology of ASD charts

You asked: -"Do you think the inherent traits of the 'controlling' trine outweighed the T-square effect, or repressed it?"- I don't understand this question, would you please elaborate on it? I think I might be missing something about how T-Squares function

If you do a google search you will find many pages describing how different aspects function.
I can only write how I would perceive the two aspects from Moon to function from an objective astrological perspective

Moon represents the 'automatic reactional response without forethought (Mercury)' through an inbred instinctive feeling pattern that governs one's behaviour. When linked to a personal planet, Pluto represents the 'I must, 'I have to' of a controlling power, not necessarily detrimental, that works with it. In a soft aspect as a trine, in AIR, the signs which all refer to the mentality in inter-relating with another, there should be freedom of (thought) movement in how one goes about that. Moon might well react to situations with an 'I can't help it, I feel inwardly compelled to REact in this manner.

A Moon in Aquarius may have a reputation for being FIXED upon its needy freedom of independence, whilst the sign Libra prefers the 'we together' mentality. As Pluto is retrograde in the sign, it may place an overpowering spoke in that togetherness wheel. A person may want to inter-relate with/to another, yet there is something in the retrograde position that says, 'I have to do it this way' in whatever is undertaken in the realms of life (houses) in which the planets are situated. Pluto in Libra tends to transform the 'we together' towards 'we as individuals within a relationship'. It's a natural trait in one's own nature, yet it can cause issues with those who act or react differently to situations through their own chart positions

A T-square, of which there are several in your chart, can be the literal spoke in the turning wheel of the FIXED signs, whose agility towards movement of any kind is slow at the best of times. Taurus does not seek independence, it wants physical Safety through Security and Stability. How Moon feels to motivate what Sun wants are two totally different things, UNLESS thay can work together, preferring not to make any kind of change to the situations each finds themselves in, and stay FIXED to.
'The bringer of change' is represented by the planet Uranus, and it is the 3rd planet on the FIXED wheel. In Scorpio, it attempts to bring change to the inner emotional depth of one's feelings. Yet it is also retrograde; subdued.

The T-square between Venus-Mars-Pluto is in the Cardinal signs in whatever house system is used. Planets in the cardinal signs are an active, of prime importance, aspect of one's nature because their function is so personal towards one's well being. Harsh aspects depict conflict (square) and confrontation (opposition) to be met in life. A desire for personal love and adoration (Venus trine Neptune) can be hampered by internal
stirrings of vulnerable feelings (Mars in Cancer) that is forced by (Pluto). Uncontrolled internal rage can occur, over which a Moon opposing Saturn (controlled discipline) cannoty contain.

Another aspect I would love to understand more is the Thor Hammer. All I can gather from what I have read so far on Thor's Hammer is that focusing on expressing the healthy neptunian qualities would help with the tension this aspect brings...... As you said: -"Differences in orbs taken might question the validity of a Thor's hammer with the Sun. Chiron in the 1st house would be within orb."- I wonder how this comes into play within the ASD cont

I think that much depends upon an accurate time of birth and whether Pisces is or is not rising, AND the choice of house system used, to interpret the meaning of/behind Neptune. The medical astrology through which I was taught in the late 1980's placed 'health patterns' (and not 6th house disease) in the 9th house, also the house of one's convictions through belief patterns as mentioned before. Neptune can have a weakening effect upon any planet with which it interacts in harsh aspect.

IF it is part of the Thor's hammer to natal Sun, you could ask yourself in how far do you believe and have faith in yourself? You may want to, yet it requires such a lot of effort if you do, without knowing how it will turn out. That's the strenuous challenge of, and/or otherwise the internal pain (Chiron) with which you live.

Saturn and Neptune are total opposites.
Saturn represents the manifested physical life in all its facets. Being aware of just how far one can go (9th house) before drawing the line of resistance that says, 'this far and no further' is its strength. Neptune represents the intangible beyond (9th house) of manifestation which cannot be physically proven; only internally experienced. It's also retrograde ... unprove? That doesn't agree with what motivates a Sun in Taurus; the physical shown by fac

Both Saturn and Neptune are in non-physical signs (and houses?). The one through suppression of feeling, the other through its spiritual ideals. This can place a weight upon a sign that lives for that which the physical side does or doesn't show.

How can the Thor's hammer be experienced? If myth is to be believed, wouldn't it mean having to throw one's self into the difficulties faced, to have them resolved when it returns.

Thank you for thinking along

Hope I didn't get carried away too far.

(This post underwent a peculiar glitch when trying to send and needed much correction. Hope it gets through in one piece. )

 

[Alegria]

Hello again Alegria

To begin with, a heartfelt thanks for your feedback that is so very descriptive of how planets can actually, rather than theortically work in a chart.
Anyone reading can learn much from what you wrote and I shall read it many times to gain more 'feeling' knowledge into the astrology of ASD charts



If you do a google search you will find many pages describing how different aspects function.
I can only write how I would perceive the two aspects from Moon to function from an objective astrological perspective

Moon represents the 'automatic reactional response without forethought (Mercury)' through an inbred instinctive feeling pattern that governs one's behaviour. When linked to a personal planet, Pluto represents the 'I must, 'I have to' of a controlling power, not necessarily detrimental, that works with it. In a soft aspect as a trine, in AIR, the signs which all refer to the mentality in inter-relating with another, there should be freedom of (thought) movement in how one goes about that. Moon might well react to situations with an 'I can't help it, I feel inwardly compelled to REact in this manner.

A Moon in Aquarius may have a reputation for being FIXED upon its needy freedom of independence, whilst the sign Libra prefers the 'we together' mentality. As Pluto is retrograde in the sign, it may place an overpowering spoke in that togetherness wheel. A person may want to inter-relate with/to another, yet there is something in the retrograde position that says, 'I have to do it this way' in whatever is undertaken in the realms of life (houses) in which the planets are situated. Pluto in Libra tends to transform the 'we together' towards 'we as individuals within a relationship'. It's a natural trait in one's own nature, yet it can cause issues with those who act or react differently to situations through their own chart positions

A T-square, of which there are several in your chart, can be the literal spoke in the turning wheel of the FIXED signs, whose agility towards movement of any kind is slow at the best of times. Taurus does not seek independence, it wants physical Safety through Security and Stability. How Moon feels to motivate what Sun wants are two totally different things, UNLESS thay can work together, preferring not to make any kind of change to the situations each finds themselves in, and stay FIXED to.
'The bringer of change' is represented by the planet Uranus, and it is the 3rd planet on the FIXED wheel. In Scorpio, it attempts to bring change to the inner emotional depth of one's feelings. Yet it is also retrograde; subdued.

The T-square between Venus-Mars-Pluto is in the Cardinal signs in whatever house system is used. Planets in the cardinal signs are an active, of prime importance, aspect of one's nature because their function is so personal towards one's well being. Harsh aspects depict conflict (square) and confrontation (opposition) to be met in life. A desire for personal love and adoration (Venus trine Neptune) can be hampered by internal
stirrings of vulnerable feelings (Mars in Cancer) that is forced by (Pluto). Uncontrolled internal rage can occur, over which a Moon opposing Saturn (controlled discipline) cannoty contain.



I think that much depends upon an accurate time of birth and whether Pisces is or is not rising, AND the choice of house system used, to interpret the meaning of/behind Neptune. The medical astrology through which I was taught in the late 1980's placed 'health patterns' (and not 6th house disease) in the 9th house, also the house of one's convictions through belief patterns as mentioned before. Neptune can have a weakening effect upon any planet with which it interacts in harsh aspect.

IF it is part of the Thor's hammer to natal Sun, you could ask yourself in how far do you believe and have faith in yourself? You may want to, yet it requires such a lot of effort if you do, without knowing how it will turn out. That's the strenuous challenge of, and/or otherwise the internal pain (Chiron) with which you live.

Saturn and Neptune are total opposites.
Saturn represents the manifested physical life in all its facets. Being aware of just how far one can go (9th house) before drawing the line of resistance that says, 'this far and no further' is its strength. Neptune represents the intangible beyond (9th house) of manifestation which cannot be physically proven; only internally experienced. It's also retrograde ... unprove? That doesn't agree with what motivates a Sun in Taurus; the physical shown by fac

Both Saturn and Neptune are in non-physical signs (and houses?). The one through suppression of feeling, the other through its spiritual ideals. This can place a weight upon a sign that lives for that which the physical side does or doesn't show.

How can the Thor's hammer be experienced? If myth is to be believed, wouldn't it mean having to throw one's self into the difficulties faced, to have them resolved when it returns.



Hope I didn't get carried away too far.

(This post underwent a peculiar glitch when trying to send and needed much correction. Hope it gets through in one piece. )

Thank you so much for this! A lot to ponder on.

 

[Samantha Bean]

20 years ago, Neurobiological studies(https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/206824) suggested that the pre-frontal Cortex is the center of high functioning Autism and Asperger syndrome. Looking further(https://www.yogayuktalife.com/stori...se-happiness-and-the-pre-frontal-cortex-fxabr), you find that Jupiter is associated with the pre-frontal cortex(some of you here will not be surprised at that at all). So relationships of Jupiter with Mercury, as well as aspects of Jupiter with asteroids, arabic parts, fixed stars and sensitive points should be explored as a way tease out the nuances of autism.

 

[Samantha Bean]

Another study in 2014(https://www.researchgate.net/public...Matter_Brain_Structure_in_Asperger's_Syndrome) explored the differences in white matter in the brains of controls and humans with asperger syndrome. It was found that amount of the matter(this is the connecting nerve fibers between the gray matter cells---also implicated MS) is either greater or less than controls in different parts of the brain such as the parietal and the frontal lobes. Again, it would seem that Mercury is debilitated in some way, and to get the nuances that work one would need to tease out asteroids, midpoints, senstive points, arabic parts and rixed stars in their interactions with Mercury in persons with AS and in controls.

 

[teeheeteehee]

Hello everyone,

Interesting thread, I have tried to research this topic before. I am on the spectrum, diagnosed last year when I entered my thirties. Prior to the diagnosis, I was considered a 'shy' person that cannot cope with relationships/social situations. I personally think it is reflected in my chart by Mercury (in Aquarius) square Pluto (in Scorpio).

I am also uploading my natal chart and looking forward to your interpretations. Feel free to PM me for further questions.

Many thanks,
T.

Youre born just a few weeks after me, I am also on the spectrum. I have Merc rx in Aqua conj the sun square mars in taurus, pisces 3rd house, the stellium of saturn neptune and uranus sqaure the midheaven, uranus square the moon, virgo moon, aqua sun, aries 4th house, mars in 4th house, jupiter in taurus in 5th house, diagnosed on the spectrum, Autism also affects the senses greatly, along with Mercury, Neptune, check whats going on in Taurus possibly as well. Also! Scorpio, and Pluto in the 11th. Chiron in cancer in the 7th. Difficulty with friends and family, but I am a very loyal friend. Considered very Intense by many lol. Sag rising, 1st house stellium of Saturn Neptune Uranus and Venus in Cap.

 

[Samantha Bean]

There are almost no charts in this discussion and the ones that are here all have rounded birth times. To make a determination of something as nuanced as the human brain, one needs an accurate birth time to at least 9 minutes of the actual event, IMO. And you are going to need to look at connections to obscure(for 99% of astrologers) information such as asteroids, sensitive points, Arabic parts, midpoint pictures, Waldemath Dark Moon Lilith, and other nuanced astrology.

 

[ScorpioMaria]

For autism, aspergers, or any great emotional or learning difficulty,
maybe any acute affliction involving the Ascendant/Sun/Moon/Mercury/Saturn/Uranus?
Maybe an exact conjunction with Uranus or Saturn can make the native too unusual or too serious, and unable to learn normally or fit in socially?
Also, maybe an exact opposition or square between the Ascendant/Sun and Jupiter can make the native very unlucky?

I think any of these aspects can manifest as autism, among many many other possibilities

 

[Samantha Bean]

For autism, aspergers, or any great emotional or learning difficulty,
maybe any acute affliction involving the Ascendant/Sun/Moon/Mercury/Saturn/Uranus?
Maybe an exact conjunction with Uranus or Saturn can make the native too unusual or too serious, and unable to learn normally or fit in socially?
Also, maybe an exact opposition or square between the Ascendant/Sun and Jupiter can make the native very unlucky?

I think any of these aspects can manifest as autism, among many many other possibilities

It would be helpful for you to look at the four major difficulties of autistic people, leading the list is difficulties with executive function.

 

[Rosalind Bond]

Mercury sign can't be it. Only Geminis, Cancers, and Tauruses can have Mercury in Gemini, and only Virgos, Leos, and Libras can have Mercury in Virgo, but people on the spectrum are born year round.

Neither can south node sign. If south node sign were it, people on the spectrum would only be born within one 2 1/2 year window every 18 1/2 years, and everyone born in that 2 1/2 year window would be on the spectrum. But that isn't so.

But more general characteristics of Mercury might be involved: Mercury afflicted in some sense, for instance. That's the communication planet, and autism involves communication difficulties.

Greta Thunberg, who is on the spectrum, has Mercury retrograde and nearly (but not fully) unaspected (however, it does sextile Venus). Her birth time is unknown, so we don't know how her Mercury fares by house placement, but that could be another factor.

What a breath of fresh air this response is…….never allow astrology to determine WHO you are how you are these are symbols to guide you and it is in the study of geometry that you find yourself becoming more knowledgeable …the best way to understand yourself is to study your own birth chart as there is no hiding place for you then. I do think personally Autism, ADHD etc., could be connected with Pisces, Neptune and 12th house …Gemini, Mercury and the 3rd house for communications (mine is ruled by Mercury in 3rd house of Gemini with Neptune in the house)……my Mercury is in Pisces in the 7th house unaspected I desperately try to connect it with my Neptune in Gemini trine but its 6 degrees so I am clutching at straws……So Mercury and Neptune, 3rd, 7th and 12th houses seem to have a connection but it does not mean you have Autism you may think differently to pretty much everyone you know lol but thats okay too. So check out the markers but don’t beat yourself up if you have one or more of them. We are born to be our best and thats all that matters. If your wondering what on earth I am talking about well I blame Neptune 3rd and Mercury unaspected in the 7th its not my fault its just me. X

 

[passiflora]

Mercurial & Lunar processing requirements have changed dramatically since at least the 1960s with the advent of widespread electrification, globalization, and computing.

It would be frustrating to seek diagnosis in the individual horoscope without referring to wider social interaction, cognition, and mundane astrological patterns. The need for contextualized diagnosis is probably relevant in other "12th house" afflictions. 12th is 3rd from the 10th - it's the mind of the zeitgeist not just the individual.

If the OP is still around, you'd be better off using the individual horoscope to look for patterns indicative of treatments (which are mutable) rather than diagnosis of inborn traits (which are immutable).

 

[ElenaJ]

Autism.
Here are charts of some celebrities with this syndrome. I had no idea it was so common.
I haven't included charts with no TOB, tried to post the most reliable birth times.
Are there any repeating patterns here?

 

[ElenaJ]

The charts were chosen randomly, as I wrote earlier, trying to select those with the most accurate TOB.

Evaluating mercury only by sign, both Aquarius and Leo occur twice, no one has mercury in taurus, gemini, sagittarius, or cancer.

Only Fischer and Jobs have no mercury to mars aspects.
In fact, Steve Jobs, the tech genius, has only one aspect with mercury, which is a Saturn square! This was a big surprise, I would have expected him to have an active mercury..

Only 3 have no mercury to Saturn aspects, Hannah, Gates, Grandin.

Except for Gates and Grandin they all have mercury aspects with the outer planets.

Not sure if this is helpful.
Any other ties between these charts?

 

[sentR89day]

Steve Jobs? I was thinking more close to Narcissistic Personality Disorder! The astrology? His Moon and Mars in Aries! I'm not saying all Moon and Mars in Aries, have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I'm just saying it probably made his Narcissism worse, if he was one!

 

[ElenaJ]

Steve Jobs? I was thinking more close to Narcissistic Personality Disorder! The astrology? His Moon and Mars in Aries! I'm not saying all Moon and Mars in Aries, have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I'm just saying it probably made his Narcissism worse, if he was one!

No idea, I know very little about his personal life. But he was a genius in his field. And I was expecting a lot of mercury activity.

Actually I was surprised at how many there are! It's a long list.

History's 30 Most Famous People with Autism

History is full of people who many consider to be or have been somewhere on the autism spectrum. Like the 30 famous autistic people on this list.

www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com

.

 

[Frisiangal]

What a breath of fresh air this response is…….never allow astrology to determine WHO you are how you are these are symbols to guide you and it is in the study of geometry that you find yourself becoming more knowledgeable …the best way to understand yourself is to study your own birth chart as there is no hiding place for you then. I do think personally Autism, ADHD etc., could be connected with Pisces, Neptune and 12th house …Gemini, Mercury and the 3rd house for communications (mine is ruled by Mercury in 3rd house of Gemini with Neptune in the house)……my Mercury is in Pisces in the 7th house unaspected I desperately try to connect it with my Neptune in Gemini trine but its 6 degrees so I am clutching at straws……So Mercury and Neptune, 3rd, 7th and 12th houses seem to have a connection but it does not mean you have Autism you may think differently to pretty much everyone you know lol but thats okay too. So check out the markers but don’t beat yourself up if you have one or more of them.

I don't believe that you can be that old.
Do you mean that you have Neptune in Virgo, in Gemini's natural rulerhip house??

We are born to be our best and thats all that matters. If your wondering what on earth I am talking about well I blame Neptune 3rd and Mercury unaspected i
the 7th its not my fault its just me. X

Yes; and if only astrology could always be interpretted as such.

 

[Phoebe_4evs]

My natal chart finds indicators I will have autism, mild anxiety and depression. I have Sun/Moon conjunction in 8th (Aquarius) square Uranus in 5th (Scorpio), Mercury in 9th (Pisces) square Neptune in 6th (Sagittarius) and also opposite Mars-Jupiter-Saturn in 3rd (Virgo), and finally a lack of planets in 12th (Gemini) indicates I'll never be sent into an institution when I was diagnosed at age 4 (Mild and high-functioning) at a time this was recommended by the "experts". I was checked for ADD, OCD, Tourette's and Mood/stress issues (no diagnoses).

Hi! May I ask, is your ascendant also in Gemini? And, your chiron, please (house & sign) 🤔?

 

[sentR89day]

On some website I read that Autism is related to Mercury and/or Uranus! I'm not sure I agree! But, it was interesting to read! It was an essay on the internet 12 years+ ago or something!

 

[morgainebrigid]

I mean I'm ADHD, not autistic.

It's now known that a person can be both. I was diagnosed with Autism 2 years ago, and with ADHD last year. It`s....interesting. fyi, I was born the same day that mercury went retrograde in Gemini.

 

[Osamenor]

It's now known that a person can be both.

I never said a person can't be both. Just that I am not.

But we neuroatypicals are definitely cousins, so to speak. It's interesting to see what correlations, or lack thereof, may be in our birth charts.

 

[infest]

I am self dianogsed with a lot of mental conditions including autism. I believe they all show in my natal chart.
i need to eat a specific way most of my life I've had headaches and trouble swallowing from eating, need to have autonomy of how i handle myself my routine my actions, I need to wear specific clothes shoes hurt my feet I stand out I may need to move all the time, cutting my nails gives very uncomfortable sensation for prolonged period of time thats distracting but also makes me miserable i've mostly had abnormal posture and gait
I have a lot of health issues and hypersensitivities related to autism, I offend people I don't relate to them on a level yet I do because I'm also HSP and absorb emotions (Neptune first house, scorpio moon 10th house, NN cancer 7th, venus sextile neptune lilith, chiron in 12th who knows what else)