Asperger's / autistic traits in the chart

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi Miss Scorpio,
I've just seen your post to this topic and thank you for the chart information.
There are some interesting natal aspects that could find an association with Aspergers syndrome.
You are now 40 years old. May I ak if there is any reason that it took so long for a diagnosis to be established and upon what traits it was based? I am wondering in what respect the sec. progressed and Solar Arc positions play their parts.
Is the diagnosis welcoming to you in that it provides answers to those questions which long concerned you?

:smile:
 

LovelyMissAries

Well-known member
What an interesting thread! I used to do this with my kiddos when I worked public school, and I found all of them had a fixed sign in their top three (Sun / Moon / Mercury), or were mutable. Capricorn or Saturn influence was common as well.
 

Giti

Premium Member
I have OFTEN seen a combination of lilith, chiron, saturn in the third, as well as Mercury R or a Retro ruler of third and especially w saturn or uranus related aspects to be the case here.

I have saturn and lilith in the third and I have 12 out of 15 symptoms of women on spectrum myself.
 

Giti

Premium Member
I’m learning here so giving my educational guess lol maybe mercury ret in Virgo or Gemini? Only reason I say is my nephew has autism and he has merc ret and is a Virgo however not fully looked at his chart. Scorpio south node can give mental problems from other charts I’ve seen and again this is not looking at the overall chart!

yes, two relatives of mine who def are on spectrum are mercury R in gemeni and virgo respectively.
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
I have OFTEN seen a combination of lilith, chiron, saturn in the third, as well as Mercury R or a Retro ruler of third and especially w saturn or uranus related aspects to be the case here.

I have saturn and lilith in the third and I have 12 out of 15 symptoms of women on spectrum myself.

I am on the spectrum (officially diagnosed two years ago) and I have Lilith on the 3rd House. Saturn conjunct Uranus on the 6th House. My 3rd ruler-Virgo is Mercury placed on the 8th House. I could never imagine that Lilith would be relevant in ASD cases.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
This little boy is only 12 years old, but he will start college at ASU this fall:


https://www.12news.com/article/news...o-asu/75-8d8eb309-957b-42c2-bbb3-322483f3f001



he will begin studying biochemistry at Arizona State University. Monty is a "twice exceptional" child, his mother said. He’s been diagnosed with ADHD, autism, seizure disorder, and has a connective tissue syndrome.

“I also have a dilated aorta, which could possibly kill me if it gets too big, but honestly, I don’t care as long as I try my best,” Monty said.


The article said he celebrated his 12th birthday on Thursday, which was January 6th:
I used transits for September, although school may start in August in Phoenix -



His natal Mercury conjuncts Etamin: 27 Sagittairus, (which is also the Galactic Center), often connecting one with the "greater Collective of consciousness) Perhaps his studies will eventually take him there.


the star Etamin

In the “right eye of the Dragon”, gamma Draco has a Saturn-Jupiter nature with Martian influence. According to tradition, the Saturnian predominance will give a liking for solitude. Good mental concentration. Dishonor and downfall and loss of prestige. Esoteric and philosophical studies. [Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.74, under Ettanin]

SUN CONJ. VEGA: (THE LYRE) often called a lucky star to have in your natal chart-as it helps give a person some musical acumen etc as mentioned, a "more developed nature":


Influences: “According to Ptolemy Lyra (a musical instrument) is like Venus and Mercury. It is said to give an harmonious, poetical and developed nature, fond of music and apt in science and art


 
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Sailorlaura

New member
Hi,
Through a passion for medical astrology, I have a shoot-off side interest in charts on the diagnosed autism scale, which began when studying the effect and relationship of MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:) with physical dis-orders and dis-ease. Over the years I have accumulated a small collection of 70 charts from private individuals, internet astro. forum exchanges, and excluding those of the famous in the Astrodatabank of Astro. com.

What has been observed personally is that a Mercury link is present in all cases. Usually yet not always in harsh aspect. I guess this would depend upon one's personal mental outlook towards its societal place (Saturn) and whether it is bothered or unconcerned by it (MEAN BML).
Yet differences have been observedm according to the diagnoses on the autism pectrum.

Autism, as a diagnosed disorder in itself, has shown more than would be considered average harsh aspects between Moon, Mercury, Saturn, and Uranus. There is a link between one with another, sometimes all four connected with each other.
IMOOsamenor is correct in saying that the planet does not necessarily have to be in its ruling sign; it's their inter-connection aspect that seems to be decisive.
The harsh Moon would relate to the 'disconnection from feeling/emotional bonding',
Mercury would relate to the mental thought flow,
Saturn for the strict disciplinary order maintained throughout,
Uranus for the alternative manner of mental perception (electrical wiring - neurology?).

Spectrum diagnoses do not include all 4 planets linked together in some way, but (also) forming separate aspects to other planets.

What has been commonly observed:
ADD:
Mercury in harsh aspect to Mars is apparent,
Neptune (the attention deficit) forms a harsh aspect that is linked to Mercury.

ADHD sees the inclusion of a harsh aspect with Mars (brain activity) and Jupiter (the H of the disorder?)

Asperger's syndrome can include a harsh aspect to Pluto.

These are in no way conclusive in themselves. The 'research' of counter-checking with same data charts of those who do not have autism spectrum disorders has never been undertaken.

:smile:

P.S. Diagnosed spectrum charts are always welcome. Name not necessary but accurate birth data included.
Thanks.
Hi, i want to give you my natal chart
 

Thea

New member
Hi,
Through a passion for medical astrology, I have a shoot-off side interest in charts on the diagnosed autism scale, which began when studying the effect and relationship of MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:) with physical dis-orders and dis-ease. Over the years I have accumulated a small collection of 70 charts from private individuals, internet astro. forum exchanges, and excluding those of the famous in the Astrodatabank of Astro. com.

What has been observed personally is that a Mercury link is present in all cases. Usually yet not always in harsh aspect. I guess this would depend upon one's personal mental outlook towards its societal place (Saturn) and whether it is bothered or unconcerned by it (MEAN BML).
Yet differences have been observedm according to the diagnoses on the autism pectrum.

Autism, as a diagnosed disorder in itself, has shown more than would be considered average harsh aspects between Moon, Mercury, Saturn, and Uranus. There is a link between one with another, sometimes all four connected with each other.
IMOOsamenor is correct in saying that the planet does not necessarily have to be in its ruling sign; it's their inter-connection aspect that seems to be decisive.
The harsh Moon would relate to the 'disconnection from feeling/emotional bonding',
Mercury would relate to the mental thought flow,
Saturn for the strict disciplinary order maintained throughout,
Uranus for the alternative manner of mental perception (electrical wiring - neurology?).

Spectrum diagnoses do not include all 4 planets linked together in some way, but (also) forming separate aspects to other planets.

What has been commonly observed:
ADD:
Mercury in harsh aspect to Mars is apparent,
Neptune (the attention deficit) forms a harsh aspect that is linked to Mercury.

ADHD sees the inclusion of a harsh aspect with Mars (brain activity) and Jupiter (the H of the disorder?)

Asperger's syndrome can include a harsh aspect to Pluto.

These are in no way conclusive in themselves. The 'research' of counter-checking with same data charts of those who do not have autism spectrum disorders has never been undertaken.

:smile:

P.S. Diagnosed spectrum charts are always welcome. Name not necessary but accurate birth data included.
Thanks.
Hey, this Sound really interesting with your observations. I’m not diagnosed, but my doctor was saying i could have asperges, because im sensitive to sounds etc. When i was child i always had few other girls i could play around with. But when i Got older it has been harder to me, to talk with other people, im also better one to one. I Can link my birth chart, If you want to look at it. 🙂
 

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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hey, this Sound really interesting with your observations. I’m not diagnosed, but my doctor was saying i could have asperges, because im sensitive to sounds etc. When i was child i always had few other girls i could play around with. But when i Got older it has been harder to me, to talk with other people, im also better one to one. I Can link my birth chart, If you want to look at it. 🙂

Thank for for offering your chart.
I work with the Placidus house system, which would put the whole sign planetary positions in different houses.
Would you be willing to send me your birth data privately so that I could draw up another chart?

For the research purposes I use only those charts that have received a definite diagnosis. Not(ic)ing the differences between those that are not on the scale are just as intriguing.:smile:
There are several aspects in the chart offered which could correspond to a sensitivity towards sound and relating to others, yet without them referring to those aspects between planets that have been found to correlate with A.S.D tendencies.

I appreciate your input.
 

Thea

New member
Thank for for offering your chart.
I work with the Placidus house system, which would put the whole sign planetary positions in different houses.
Would you be willing to send me your birth data privately so that I could draw up another chart?

For the research purposes I use only those charts that have received a definite diagnosis. Not(ic)ing the differences between those that are not on the scale are just as intriguing.:smile:
There are several aspects in the chart offered which could correspond to a sensitivity towards sound and relating to others, yet without them referring to those aspects between planets that have been found to correlate with A.S.D tendencies.

I appreciate your input.
Yes of course you can get it in placidus. 🙂There are also many who think my boyfriend may have ADHD and autism. Since he can speak many languages, and has a great ear for languages, he is also like a book, he has a lot of knowledge in him. Maybe you want to look at his too?

Thanks anyway for looking at it and taking your time. 🙂
 

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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi again Thea,
Thank you for producing the chart in the Placidus house system, which offers a different focus than a Whole Sign chart.
There are a number of factors in the chart that could be said to induce irrationality, mental thought sensitivity, and an obsessional behaviour pattern to that which would be considered 'normal' because they do not agree with what would be considered so. Put them all together and a label on the ASD list could be deemed reasonable to a professional doctor familiar with such symptoms of behaviour.

Let us know if you undergo tests that provide an official diagnosis.

:smile:
 

Thea

New member
So if these different things that can indicate an ASD "diagnosis" and they are put together by a medical professional, this can indicate a "diagnosis". But because society has a lot of rules and there are people who cannot follow these rules, you are put in a certain box/"diagnosis". Just like what Osho said back in time.

And thanks, i Will do.
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
So if these different things that can indicate an ASD "diagnosis" and they are put together by a medical professional, this can indicate a "diagnosis". But because society has a lot of rules and there are people who cannot follow these rules, you are put in a certain box/"diagnosis". Just like what Osho said back in time.
👌
 

sentR89day

Well-known member
I read that people in the astrological circles seem to think that Mercury and Uranus tend towards autistic traits! I am Autistic by the way. I have Mars square Uranus and I have Jupiter in Gemini. Gemini is Mercury ruled.
 

Alegria

New member
Hi,
Through a passion for medical astrology, I have a shoot-off side interest in charts on the diagnosed autism scale, which began when studying the effect and relationship of MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:) with physical dis-orders and dis-ease. Over the years I have accumulated a small collection of 70 charts from private individuals, internet astro. forum exchanges, and excluding those of the famous in the Astrodatabank of Astro. com.

What has been observed personally is that a Mercury link is present in all cases. Usually yet not always in harsh aspect. I guess this would depend upon one's personal mental outlook towards its societal place (Saturn) and whether it is bothered or unconcerned by it (MEAN BML).
Yet differences have been observedm according to the diagnoses on the autism pectrum.

Autism, as a diagnosed disorder in itself, has shown more than would be considered average harsh aspects between Moon, Mercury, Saturn, and Uranus. There is a link between one with another, sometimes all four connected with each other.
IMOOsamenor is correct in saying that the planet does not necessarily have to be in its ruling sign; it's their inter-connection aspect that seems to be decisive.
The harsh Moon would relate to the 'disconnection from feeling/emotional bonding',
Mercury would relate to the mental thought flow,
Saturn for the strict disciplinary order maintained throughout,
Uranus for the alternative manner of mental perception (electrical wiring - neurology?).

Spectrum diagnoses do not include all 4 planets linked together in some way, but (also) forming separate aspects to other planets.

What has been commonly observed:
ADD:
Mercury in harsh aspect to Mars is apparent,
Neptune (the attention deficit) forms a harsh aspect that is linked to Mercury.

ADHD sees the inclusion of a harsh aspect with Mars (brain activity) and Jupiter (the H of the disorder?)

Asperger's syndrome can include a harsh aspect to Pluto.

These are in no way conclusive in themselves. The 'research' of counter-checking with same data charts of those who do not have autism spectrum disorders has never been undertaken.

:smile:

P.S. Diagnosed spectrum charts are always welcome. Name not necessary but accurate birth data included.
Thanks.
Hello,
What an interesting thread! I have been diagnosed ASD as an adult (two years ago) after decades of therapeutic inquiry. My life suddenly made sense. It has been an illuminating and liberating realisation. One of my special interests is astrology and would love to read what you can see in my chart relating to ASD.

This is what I could spot based on what I have read here so far:

- Sun, Moon, Mercury and Jupiter in fixed signs
- Neptune as singleton, highest in the chart, and aspected in a Thor hammer with Saturn and Sun
- Grand Cross connecting Moon, Uranus, Saturn and Sun
- Mercury sextile Mars (only aspect to Mercury, but Mars is connected to everything else)
- Chiron opposite Uranus
- Moon in Aquarius

I wonder what else can you see that I am missing.
Happy to answer any clarifying questions if you have any.
Thank you!

astro_2gw_let_s.32063.76471.png
 
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Frisiangal

Well-known member
Hi Alegria,
The on-the-hour birth time, unless accurate within a few minutes, is questionable regarding whether Aries or Pisces rising describes the personlity through which one lives. As both rulers are within orb of a quincunx/inconjunct to each other, there could be tension between how each trait would desire to manifest itself.
As you say, Neptune is in Sagittarius AND in the 9th house. It could be more carried away by its convictions than a Mars in Cancer in the 4th house that could well be less assertive in employing its assertive energy in voicing them (Mercury sextile Mars). OR, have you experienced more that the courage (Mars) of your 9th house, with Scorpio on the cusp (trad. ruler Mars), convictions relates to 'inner emotional upheavals' because they are non-verbalised of nature that, or, simply cannot be verbalised or interpretted (no aspect between Mercury and Neptune) in a manner that others would understand ?

Neptune as singleton, highest in the chart, and aspected in a Thor hammer with Saturn and Sun

Differences in orbs taken might question the validity of a Thor's hammer with the Sun. Chiron in the 1st house would be within orb.

Mercury in FIXED sign Taurus is ruler of the 6th house of physical complaints with Virgo on the cusp. It is also ruler of Gemini, intercepted in the Placidus 3rd house. It makes no harsh aspects. Enhanced, as you say, by the other planets in FIXED signs, it probably relies on physical facts to aid your well-being. Yet woe betide when Uranus type clashes in emotional Scorpio experiences situations in a totally different manner, that/and remain brewing within without 'erupting'. Transit activation of natal planets during 2019/20, followed by the Uranus opposition probably accounted for the illuminating and liberation realisation you experienced.

Although not an immediate indication of a diagnosis, your delineation of natal aspects could well ascribe to ASD 'in hindisght'. You did not mention Pluto (compulsions) and its involvement in forming the Venus-Mars-Pluto T-square. It makes a wide Moon applying trine in AIR. As mentioned in my post you quoted, its implication has been observed in cases of Asperger's syndrome.
Do you think the inherent traits of the 'controlling' trine outweighed the T-square effect, or repressed it?

Thank you for offering your chart (that I had also drawn up! :wink:).
:smile:
 

Alegria

New member
Hi Alegria,
The on-the-hour birth time, unless accurate within a few minutes, is questionable regarding whether Aries or Pisces rising describes the personlity through which one lives. As both rulers are within orb of a quincunx/inconjunct to each other, there could be tension between how each trait would desire to manifest itself.
As you say, Neptune is in Sagittarius AND in the 9th house. It could be more carried away by its convictions than a Mars in Cancer in the 4th house that could well be less assertive in employing its assertive energy in voicing them (Mercury sextile Mars). OR, have you experienced more that the courage (Mars) of your 9th house, with Scorpio on the cusp (trad. ruler Mars), convictions relates to 'inner emotional upheavals' because they are non-verbalised of nature that, or, simply cannot be verbalised or interpretted (no aspect between Mercury and Neptune) in a manner that others would understand ?



Differences in orbs taken might question the validity of a Thor's hammer with the Sun. Chiron in the 1st house would be within orb.

Mercury in FIXED sign Taurus is ruler of the 6th house of physical complaints with Virgo on the cusp. It is also ruler of Gemini, intercepted in the Placidus 3rd house. It makes no harsh aspects. Enhanced, as you say, by the other planets in FIXED signs, it probably relies on physical facts to aid your well-being. Yet woe betide when Uranus type clashes in emotional Scorpio experiences situations in a totally different manner, that/and remain brewing within without 'erupting'. Transit activation of natal planets during 2019/20, followed by the Uranus opposition probably accounted for the illuminating and liberation realisation you experienced.

Although not an immediate indication of a diagnosis, your delineation of natal aspects could well ascribe to ASD 'in hindisght'. You did not mention Pluto (compulsions) and its involvement in forming the Venus-Mars-Pluto T-square. It makes a wide Moon applying trine in AIR. As mentioned in my post you quoted, its implication has been observed in cases of Asperger's syndrome.
Do you think the inherent traits of the 'controlling' trine outweighed the T-square effect, or repressed it?

Thank you for offering your chart (that I had also drawn up! :wink:).
:smile:

Thank you @Frisiangal ! You raised some very insight provoking questions. I will try to answer in the same order you wrote the questions and answer them in the context of the ASD diagnosis.

1) ASC: Your comment on ASC Piscis vs ASC Aries tension is spot on. There is a constant struggle between the need to just go with the flow and the impulse to lead the way; between the need to avoid conflict by disappearing into my dream world and the impulse to face conflict head on, charging ahead; between the deep desire to merge with my loved ones and the intense need to remain independent and being alone. It is quite a ride for sure.

2) Neptune/Mars: I can get carried away by my convictions and be very assertive, especially when faced with injustice, cruelty and unfairness. AND there is a lot of inner emotional upheaval that has taken years of therapy to understand, accept and integrate before it could be communicated to others. Noticing, interpreting, and embracing my feelings is hard work! There is usually a lot of imagery, metaphors, dream like states, and sensory expressions involved when trying to communicate thoughts and feelings. Communication has been a life long struggle and being misinterpreted or my intentions misjudged is a big trigger for me (I either melt-down or shut-down).

3) I experience Mercury in Taurus as very matter of fact and it can rely too much on hard data. It becomes bewildered when confronted with the mysterious paradoxes that abound. The word "erupting" resonates deeply; the feeling that I am about to explode is very familiar and disturbing, because it seems to be an "overreaction" to what Mercury sees as "it is what it is".
I tend to take people at their word and end up very confused when intuitively I can feel there is something else between the lines. I just don't know what. When I ask directly, it always surprises me that they expect me to know what is going on even though they are saying the opposite of what they are feeling/thinking. I can "feel" something is off, and can "imagine" a thousand scenarios as of what it is, but ultimately, cannot guess and need them to be direct and honest if we are going to understand each other at all.
I can also get stuck on loops of thoughts, going around over and over, ruminating, trying to decipher interpersonal interactions. I may rehearse future conversations to have possible responses (scripts) because my ability to respond appropriately "in the moment" is diminished by intense feelings.

4) Pluto-Venus-Mars T-Square: obsessions and compulsions manifest in the area of interpersonal relationships. Falling in love is a terribly overwhelming experience, taking over my life and seriously derailing me. Interpersonal conflict usually sends me into obsessive loops. Being with people can be so exiting/exhausting that I need a lot of alone time to emotionally regulate after it. The best way for me to emotionally regulate is to be outdoors, walking barefoot and witnessing Nature.

You asked: -"Do you think the inherent traits of the 'controlling' trine outweighed the T-square effect, or repressed it?"- I don't understand this question, would you please elaborate on it? I think I might be missing something about how T-Squares function?

Another aspect I would love to understand more is the Thor Hammer. All I can gather from what I have read so far on Thor's Hammer is that focusing on expressing the healthy neptunian qualities would help with the tension this aspect brings...... As you said: -"Differences in orbs taken might question the validity of a Thor's hammer with the Sun. Chiron in the 1st house would be within orb."- I wonder how this comes into play within the ASD context?

Thank you for thinking along! :)
 
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