Asperger's / autistic traits in the chart

Cary2

Banned
I knew two people who are both employed as nurses (the male & female nurses) One in hospice care, the other (male) in the hospitals.

They were quite sad and told me that their neighbors had children and they didn't and they were getting older now 17 or so years ago.



When the husband was around 43 and wife perhaps 34 they had twins. Both were elated when they found out she was pregnant and with twins. The children were born sometimes before noon (I can't recall exactly now), so I used noon, but it was just before noon. She delivered them Cesarean and a planned time.


They were both determined to be autistic around age 2-3 and one was "worse then the other" for not connecting with people.



From my notes I saved - For example, once I had them over for swimming around age 5-6. "C" readily engaged but "L" his twin did not. Everytime "L" wanted to speak, he'd speak in a 3rd person type of way always disconnected from himself it seemed.


Example: "Look mommy, the swimmer is swimming " (instead of using his own name or saying "I" am swimming he would say, "Look at the swimmer"



When my husband made them grilled cheese sandwiches, they came into the house. "L" looked into the pantry for cookies, I forgot he had before, Vanilla wafers. He grabbed the box, ran outside and when we said, "give your brother one" he gave him just one exactly and didn't offer to share them.


from my notes -


[FONT=&quot]They BOTH wanted the "Pink Noodles" for the pool, and we had one purple & one pink....so it was settled by suggesting that the Purple one had a flower shape on the end.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]C.... is mostly the more distant, (focused one)..........and L.... is more the ADD - jumpy, fast and every moving one.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Both are cute. Logan kept saying, "that's L....'s house, (over our fence) are you coming over to see [FONT=&quot]his [/FONT]garden?" Never self-involved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]TOB in question, but definitely just before noon - 10AM -12 is safe to believe.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Their mom had a very difficult pregnancy, was quite sick a lot.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Being nurses, I recall telling the father that they were very equipped more then any others to take care of the boys (when the father expressed sadness to me) after they were diagnosed.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Better equipped then most would be as parents"....."they'll do just fine" not knowing if they would or not of course.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But as it turned out, the parents got First class help coming in 3 times a week to tutor the children and they both attended Public school now for many years,(they are currently 17 yrs old now) ....[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Still they are different in their mannerisms, much like when younger, but "L" has improved quite a bit and his twin "C" you can't even tell if you didn't know it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]They seem to keep only each other as best friends always together. Their father bought them each a car, like older 70's and they drive them once in a blue moon (literally), always with father in the car.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yes, the father is quite strict with them (always has them on a rigid schedule) perhaps told to do so by the early tutors. and counselors who would teach them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I recall "L" being in a grocery store and bumping into them when they were around 12 yrs old at the produce section. Both boys were there, but "L" clung onto his father in a bear hug (he was still younger then)...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The father told him not to be so emotional......in a sharp tone said, "Be a man, L"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]They ALL seem to do well as an intact family, lots of structure, lots of busy time in the summers boating, (he bought a nice motor boat) and an RV so they go camping together. They all graduated from camping outdoors to now in the RV. They really seem to be doing quite well at their age now. But not much freedom that I can tell.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I know the father is a Scorpio Sun, and I think the mother is an Air sign, but I can't say for certain now.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]They are Fraternal twins
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]note: 3 planets are in the 29th degree i.e. Mercury, Mars - Uranus.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Again I see the suggestion of intellectual brilliance (Mercury-conjunct-Uranus) and a rich imagination (Jupiter-oppose-Neptune). How can this be used to diagnose Asperger's?
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
If that was your point, why did you say, "mistaken for"? There's nothing to mistake.

What's arbitrary is calling it a disorder. Homosexuality used to be known as a disorder, too.

Similarly, people ask if there are "gay" markers in a birth chart. Arguably, there are, but the same markers appear in the charts of straight people too. And when we look for astrological markers of neuroatypicality, we may find some that appear time and again, but they also appear for neurotypical people.

Everything astrological can manifest in a variety of ways.

I think there is a high level of ignorance about ASD (or Aspergers Syndrome) even by psychiatrists and clinical psychologists due to its complex nature and possibly other reasons (lack of research, societal taboos about autism, etc.). Therefore don't expect to figure out a pattern to spot it in the chart easily. I totally agree that it can manifest through various astrological patterns though!

The ASD diagnosis is very complex, often it requires a team of specialists who will often disagree or approach the subject so theoretically (meaning might not recognize the individual traits right away, or might misdiagnose the person as having a personality disorder). This process takes months or years in order to be "accurate".

The doctors who diagnosed me told me "You are not an autistic woman but you are technically on the functional side of the spectrum" in an attempt to make it sound that I am not severely autistic and due to genetics I somehow ended up on this side. However, now that I am studying further about this condition, ASD or Aspergers (!) is a contradiction in itself. It's a paradox where technically you are not severely autistic but at the same time, you exhibit strong 'autistic traits' that have an impact on your life and the way you relate to others. For example, maintaining eye contact or the ability to have long-term friendships and demonstrate empathy. Astrologically maybe Pluto has something to do with it, I have been told before in this forum that Pluto is the most important planet in my chart and this justified my loner's early years. (Saturn as well).

The important thing to remind yourselves is that ASD is not a disease, and I am not sure that labeling it a disorder is appropriate. (For experts, it is appropriate, obviously, however, I don't approach this as scientific research here.) What I am trying to say is that quite often labels fail to get to the true nature of things and that nowadays almost everyone can be diagnosed with some disorder. I think we need to accept there is no normal. Specifically, a psychiatrist told me that "there is no such thing as normal, there is only the pathological".
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
The important thing to remind yourselves is that ASD is not a disease, and I am not sure that labeling it a disorder is appropriate. (For experts, it is appropriate, obviously, however, I don't approach this as scientific research here.) What I am trying to say is that quite often labels fail to get to the true nature of things and that nowadays almost everyone can be diagnosed with some disorder. I think we need to accept there is no normal. Specifically, a psychiatrist told me that "there is no such thing as normal, there is only the pathological".

For the case of the mental diversity of this topic, I think that the description Osamenor supplied ....neuroatypicality .... is a very good substitute for the 'dis-....' labels because it does not imply any form of dis-crimination.
Yet would it be adequate to include the influence of emotional expression under the same description?
 

Osamenor

Staff member
The important thing to remind yourselves is that ASD is not a disease, and I am not sure that labeling it a disorder is appropriate. (For experts, it is appropriate, obviously, however, I don't approach this as scientific research here.) What I am trying to say is that quite often labels fail to get to the true nature of things and that nowadays almost everyone can be diagnosed with some disorder. I think we need to accept there is no normal. Specifically, a psychiatrist told me that "there is no such thing as normal, there is only the pathological".

Very true... and yet, being "diagnosed" with a "disorder" is, unfortunately, the only way you can get the adaptations that you may need to finish school or hold down a job. Some of us are greatly helped by medication, either in general or under certain circumstances, but to get that, you have to be diagnosed.

So, we're made to adopt a label.
 

TamaraL

Well-known member
Very true... and yet, being "diagnosed" with a "disorder" is, unfortunately, the only way you can get the adaptations that you may need to finish school or hold down a job. Some of us are greatly helped by medication, either in general or under certain circumstances, but to get that, you have to be diagnosed.

So, we're made to adopt a label.

You are totally right. I have come to realize that the diagnosis is the only tool for self-development and understanding the disorder. (Even a late diagnosis such as my case) By the way, I am not trying to sugarcoat this disorder. I really want to understand it.
 

brainpuddle

Well-known member
I read a study not long ago from a New York City hospital, comparing birth month to afflictions treated. Many of the conclusions were very much in line with things I'd read about or observed in astrology, including autism spiking in September births. This makes perfect sense to me, as in many ways, autism can be seen as an extreme exacerbation of natural Virgo traits.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
All,

Please remember, this is an astrological thread. I've deleted a few posts that veered off the subject of astrology. An occasional side comment is one thing, and I've left a few of those, but multiple non-astrological posts take the thread off track. If you want to discuss asperger's/autism without astrology, please take it to Chat.

Keeping it on track,
Osamenor
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I have a natal Neptune in 6th in Sagittarius, which squares Mercury in 9th in Pisces, note Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo, and Neptune rules Pisces. In between the two planets is my Sun and Moon in 8th in Aquarius...caught between the planet of illness in the house of illness and the planet of mental issues in the sign of mental issues. The 13' of Pisces where my Mercury is in is the planet's worst degree, while Neptune in 22' Sagittarius - the 22-23' range - is malefic in numerology similarly to 13-14' range of any sign of the zodiac.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Re: Autism/Asperger's



I happened to listen to this Podcast (which btw, was created around the time of the 2016 Presidential Elections) - with Tad Mann who talks about Asperger's Syndrome and a friend of his in London.


(I'd recommend skipping to around 16 minutes in....the 1st 15 min. is very boring...or noisy.) Go to 16 minutes on video on this Link:
It is where the fetal state drawing is which I think is DaVinci's art - THAT is where the podcast is located to listen to:


https://www.holestoheavens.com/exploring-life-time-astrology-with-at-mann/




He said there seems to be a correlation between Autism and Saturn square Neptune.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
All the talk of famous people coming out as in the autistic spectrum: Anthony Hopkins and Elon Musk, a similar trend with the recent coming-outings of Billie Eilish and David Archuleta claiming to be LGBT. Can anyone find anything related to having autism in natal charts of Anthony Hopkins and Elon Musk?

Elon Musk (June 28, 1971 - 2 weeks away from now is his 50th birthday). https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Musk,_Elon

Anthony Hopkins (Dec 31, 1937 - New Years eve birth close to 1938). https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hopkins,_Anthony

Osameanor used one of 3 known self-titles many adults with autism use: Like Neurodiverse or neurodivergent are 2 of them to indicate the autism spectrum is not what we define as a disability, it's part of nature to have different brains and neurological identities, and people who have autism are able to live fairly normal lives in the workplace, being independent, established and relationships.
 

athair

Well-known member
I have a natal Neptune in 6th in Sagittarius, which squares Mercury in 9th in Pisces, note Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo, and Neptune rules Pisces. In between the two planets is my Sun and Moon in 8th in Aquarius...caught between the planet of illness in the house of illness and the planet of mental issues in the sign of mental issues. The 13' of Pisces where my Mercury is in is the planet's worst degree, while Neptune in 22' Sagittarius - the 22-23' range - is malefic in numerology similarly to 13-14' range of any sign of the zodiac.

Hi; interesting info; im 23 degree Sag asc; Mars 23° in Acquarius; Pluto 13° in Libra and Vertex 13° in Taurus; would you suggest somewhere to find about numereology point of view regarding those degrees? Thanks; greetings
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Hi; interesting info; im 23 degree Sag asc; Mars 23° in Acquarius; Pluto 13° in Libra and Vertex 13° in Taurus; would you suggest somewhere to find about numereology point of view regarding those degrees? Thanks; greetings

A link to an article regarding the 22nd degree in a sign, esp. 22* Capricorn is specifically mentioned here, it does reference the 18th degree of a sign is also malefic, and the number 13 is generally a bad luck omen in western cultures.

https://astroniki.com/the-18th-and-... degree is the,native's loved one passes away.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Like in the movie *Mercury Rising* about a boy with autism has to be protected by the protagonist played by Bruce Willis, the planet Mercury in the 12th or 1st and similar with Uranus are thought to play a role in a person to develop autism (spectrum disorder) in their lives, whenever those planets conjunct Ascendant.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
A link to an article regarding the 22nd degree in a sign, esp. 22* Capricorn is specifically mentioned here, it does reference the 18th degree of a sign is also malefic, and the number 13 is generally a bad luck omen in western cultures.

https://astroniki.com/the-18th-and-22nd-degrees/#:~:text=The%2022nd%20degree%20is%20the,native's%20loved%20one%20passes%20away.


Well, I won't be doing it, but someone might want to inform Astro-Niki (the link posted here), that she was wrong about this:
One of the world’s renowned astrologers, Nikola Stojanovic came up with the “Degree theory”. He made researches on the 18th and 22nd degree for the first time. And figured out that every degree has a special meaning. In other words
I wrote a Kindle e Book on the Critical Degrees and how many are connected to the fixed stars, although not all. The link is seen below my name.



It was not Nikola Stojanovic who gets the credit for being the "first time" as she said, pointing out these critical degrees, (including the 18th & 22nd)



If anyone gets the credit, it is Charubel (pseudonym) in more modern times- long before Nikola S. was born:

Charubel (1826-1908) was the pseudonym of John Thomas, a Welsh clairvoyant, astrologer and healer.
And then, Sepharial (pseudonym for Walter Gorn Old )
There are many who believe that each degree of the entire zodiac circle carries a specific meaning itself. From what I can determine, there have been several people who have either come up with their own individual meanings for each of the degrees of the zodiac or who have expounded upon existing sets.


There are three people whose work is primarily noted in this subject: Charubel, Sepharial, and Marc Edmund Jones *who originally wrote down the Sabian Symbols with a lady named Elsie Wheeler in California - meeting each day and she would tell him which degree would mean what in Sabian Symbols ....supposedly Elsie Wheeler was a medium & psychic.
Charubel (the pseudonym of John Thomas) was a clairvoyant and astrologer (among many other things), and in 1893 published Degrees of the Zodiac Symbolized, which contained a symbol and the author’s determination of it’s meaning for all 360 degrees of the zodiac. He used his psychic abilities to determine and record each of the symbols.

Sepharial (the pseudonym of Walter Gorn Old) was an astrologer, theosophist and clairvoyant (also among many other things). He brought forth a second set of symbols very shortly after Charubel which he said was translated from a work by Sig. Anton. Borelli called “La Volasfera.”



Sepharial then added his own interpretations to each degree symbol and published this set in 1898 as part of the second edition of Charubel’s book.
https://www.heavenlytruth.com/degree-symbols




and you can read further on this Link:
https://sabian.org/sabian_symbols.php

The Early Influence of "Charubel"

At about the same time that Marc met Elsie, he had become interested in the symbolic astrological degrees of a Welsh seer by the name of John Thomas, better known as Charubel. Thomas had obtained his degrees psychically for the basic purpose of helping him rectify the ascendents of horoscopes. Those degrees were published in Alan Leo's Astrological Manual No. VIII in 1898 and again by Aries Press as The Degrees of the Zodiac Symbolised in 1943
My guess is "there is nothing new under the sun" and same with the Critical degrees. :happy:
 
Last edited:

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
The degrees ruled by a certain sign and it's ruler planet:

1, 13, 25 - Aries (Mars).
2, 14, 26 - Taurus (Venus).
3, 15, 27 - Gemini (Mercury).
4, 16, 28 - Cancer (Moon).
5, 17, 29 - Leo (Sun).
6, 18, 30 - Virgo (Mercury).
7, 19, 25 - Libra (Venus).
8, 20, 26 - Scorpio (Pluto).
9, 21, 27 - Sagittarius (Jupiter).
10, 22, 28 - Capricorn (Saturn).
11, 23, 29 - Aquarius (Uranus).
12, 24, 30 - Pisces (Neptune).

Saturn may have to do with a person developing autism which is a disability (more like a neurodivergence) and Saturn is the planet of (all) disabilities.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
And I did some research to expand my knowledge on astrology like in the past 9 or 10 years here in the AW forum, and I'm certain this is related to the topic.

*What does 22 degrees mean in astrology?: The 22nd degree is the Capricorn degree. Though it is different than the 10th degree, which is also the Capricorn degree. The 22nd degree can indicate that a native's loved one passes away.*

22' Sagittarius is a whole house apart from 22' Capricorn, also it is the planet of Neptune not of Saturn, and Neptune is another planet related to neurodiversity.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
My astrological profile and does it point to any chances of developing autism.

* Sun (Leo) in 26' (Taurus) Aquarius in 8th (scorpio).
* Moon (Cancer) in 20' (scorpio) Aquarius in 8th (scorpio).
* Mercury (Gemini) in 13' (Aries) Pisces in 9th (Sagittarius).
* Venus (Taurus) in 7' (Libra) Aries in 10th (Capricorn).
* Mars (Aries) in 9' (Sagittarius) Virgo in 3rd (Gemini).
* Jupiter (Sagittarius) in 6' (Virgo) Virgo in 3rd (Gemini).
* Saturn (Capricorn) in 24-25'? (Pisces/Aries) Virgo in 3rd (Gemini).
* Uranus (Aquarius) in 25' (Aries) Scorpio in 5th (Leo).
* Neptune (Pisces) in 22' (Capricorn) Sagittarius in 6th (Virgo).
* Pluto (Scorpio) in 21' (Sagittarius) Libra in 4th (Cancer).
* True Node (Libra) in 29' (Aquarius) Leo in 2nd (Taurus).
* Opposite Node (Virgo) in 29' (Aquarius) Aquarius in 8th (Scorpio).
 
Last edited:

MissScorpio

Well-known member
Hi,
Through a passion for medical astrology, I have a shoot-off side interest in charts on the diagnosed autism scale, which began when studying the effect and relationship of MEAN Black Moon Lilith :)lilth:) with physical dis-orders and dis-ease. Over the years I have accumulated a small collection of 70 charts from private individuals, internet astro. forum exchanges, and excluding those of the famous in the Astrodatabank of Astro. com.

What has been observed personally is that a Mercury link is present in all cases. Usually yet not always in harsh aspect. I guess this would depend upon one's personal mental outlook towards its societal place (Saturn) and whether it is bothered or unconcerned by it (MEAN BML).
Yet differences have been observedm according to the diagnoses on the autism pectrum.

Autism, as a diagnosed disorder in itself, has shown more than would be considered average harsh aspects between Moon, Mercury, Saturn, and Uranus. There is a link between one with another, sometimes all four connected with each other.
IMOOsamenor is correct in saying that the planet does not necessarily have to be in its ruling sign; it's their inter-connection aspect that seems to be decisive.
The harsh Moon would relate to the 'disconnection from feeling/emotional bonding',
Mercury would relate to the mental thought flow,
Saturn for the strict disciplinary order maintained throughout,
Uranus for the alternative manner of mental perception (electrical wiring - neurology?).

Spectrum diagnoses do not include all 4 planets linked together in some way, but (also) forming separate aspects to other planets.

What has been commonly observed:
ADD:
Mercury in harsh aspect to Mars is apparent,
Neptune (the attention deficit) forms a harsh aspect that is linked to Mercury.

ADHD sees the inclusion of a harsh aspect with Mars (brain activity) and Jupiter (the H of the disorder?)

Asperger's syndrome can include a harsh aspect to Pluto.

These are in no way conclusive in themselves. The 'research' of counter-checking with same data charts of those who do not have autism spectrum disorders has never been undertaken.

:smile:

P.S. Diagnosed spectrum charts are always welcome. Name not necessary but accurate birth data included.
Thanks.


Hi there I was recently diagnosed with Aspergers. If you were interested i'm 17/11/1981 born 18.00 (6pm) Haslemere England
 

MissScorpio

Well-known member
Hi. I have been reading this thread and rather interesting. I was diagnosed with Aspergers 2 months ago. If you wish for my chart it is attached.
 

Attachments

  • l.jpg
    l.jpg
    42.1 KB · Views: 52
Top