Are we just simply friendship? Is there anything going to happen between us?

[Narcissus]

Hmm, the situation gets a bit complicated.

Currently I am having some issues with my boyfriend whom I have been with for almost 8 years. I was really upset about his unconcern and coolness for the past years, so we had a big fight a month ago after my business trip back from Cincinnati. I said break-up and wanted to move away from him, but he didn't want to and I was finally compromised when I saw his sadness.

Right before the fight with my boyfriend, one of my long distance male friends was staying with me and comforting me during my hard time. Up to now, I felt there might be something between us, more than just friendship.

I wanted to confirm is there anything happening between me and my friend, or are we still just friends?

Mars is describing me - placement in the 5th house and conjuncts Sat. I am still having hard time with my boyfriend, I do not know whether I still love him, and vice versa, but both of us are not ready to let go of the relationship.

Should I use the 7th house to signify my male friend, or my boyfriend?

Correct me if I am wrong. I would take 7th to signify my friend, since venus' placement in the 10th house of him is also describing the current situation: he once mentioned to me that he wanted some changes in his career, and hinted me that he could move to my location if he wanted to.


P.S. I am a bit wondered that the moon is moving into 7th house and forming a T-square with Jup and the Sun, does that mean anything to the case?(5 degree, which could be 5 days later?) I also found that from my transit-natal chart, something is going to happen on 7/15, but I am not quite sure what that is.

Thanks all for your time!

 

[starlink]

Hello Narcissus!
Thanks for having tried to interprete you chart first. So let me help you (as far as I can of course).

As you are talking about your boyfriend of 8 years, which is really a relationship and a friend which is not yet a relationship, you must always put your boyfriend in the 7th and your friend in the 11th. You are comparing here both relationships in a way, or at least having a boyfriend, but now feeling something towards a friend. So Boyfriend is still in the picture.

This means that Boyfriend is Venus and friend is Saturn. And what do we see? Oh yes, you and him in your 5th house of romance and you are moving in his direction and fast as well. This looks already like a yes to me. But lets look a bit further. Mars and Saturn are both in term of Mercury. There is good communication there, Merc. being ruler of your 3rd. He is actually seen as being in the 6th of work because Saturn is within 5° orb of the 6th. Saturn also rules your 10th of career. Are you in the same field of work? Or was he coming over because of a work related issue?.

As Moon is also your co-significator she is important. She will shortly move into the 7th house where she will gain in strength. Moon will square Sun, ruler of your 5th, which could show difficulty to overcome in this romantic thing with your friend. You probably do not want to have sex with him (5th house is sex) because of your boyfriend (or if you did have sex, it could not have been to your liking emotionally).In any case, an affair with him is probably not what you really want.

Then Moon will square your boyfriend (Venus), a difficult contact with him because Moon is peregrine and Venus is VOC, but a contact anyways, after which You (Moon) will enter his 1st house. Maybe you decide to stay with him, but you wont be too happy as you are entering the Via Combusta there.

The square to Jupiter might have to do with your career. a problem with an overseas client maybe or a trip abroad which turns out to be quite problematic. Or you decide to go abroad to your friend maybe? This could then be a very difficult decision for you to make or cause trouble (between you and your boyfriend, but only if he knows about the other guy).
Last aspect of the Moon before leaving her sign is a trine to Mercury ruler of your 3rd and 6th. A short business trip maybe.

Your boyfriend is Venus, and he is VOC, a bit lost to say the least, not at all able to act. He is in fall of Mars (you)and in detriment of Saturn (the other guy) clearly showing that he feels that you dont like him that much anymore (because the other guy is detrimenting him.) He is still in face of the Moon (also you) which means that you still see him as your boyfriend.

Venus looks like he is having trouble in his career . Moon rules his 10th house and Sun his 11th, his salary (2nd of the 10th).
He might want to earn more and change jobs or has changed jobs recently or left his job.Jupiter rules his 3rd and his 6th, so the square to Jupiter also shows some problems at work and maybe with one of his brothers.

Venus and Mars do not get together I'm afraid. So it could well be that your relationship is ending pretty soon. When Venus enters Leo she will be peregrine and in term of Saturn.

I think that your friend is good for you (NN in the 11th), at least that is what Frawley says about the NN. With Mars getting to him, I would say that indeed there is a spark of romance there. If it will become something permanent? I am afraid not. You will eventually oppose Uranus, his other ruler and a general indicator of separation.

I hope I am wrong about this doom and gloom story, but I cannot see much more than this for the moment. Please keep me posted on the developments for experience and learning's sake! Thanks.

Maybe AG could jump in and correct me where I am wrong?

Starlink

 

[fensi88]

This is all about receptions.
You are Ma and Moon, friend is Sa.
Ma will soon conjunct Sa, so that is "yes", it will be new events between you and friend?
Moon is in Ve sign and Sa exaltation, you still love your boyfriend but much more friend, you see friend much better than he really is.
Sa is in Moon's triplicity.Firendship is key word for this relationship: warm and comfortable, but with no grand passion. So, he sees you as friend.
Ve is in Moon sign, your boyfriend loves you more than your friend. Ve nad Moon are in mutual reception so we are both ready to help each other to outdo problems.

 

[Vista]

It's kind of interesting how both interpretations of the outcome, while both making sense to me really differ. Keep us updated on the outcome.
Vista

 

[Narcissus]

Hello all,

Sorry for the late reply. But first of all, I would like to thank you Starlink and Fensi88 for your kind interpretation. You guys are awesome!

To express my thankfulness, I feel that I have a responsibility to feed back with how the things go in detail.

After casting the chart, I didn't break up with my boyfriend, nor move forward to my friend. However, I found it very difficult communicating with him even though I have decided to stay with him. Although he has been trying his best to keep me happy, his aloofness bothers me a lot. It is not quite pleasant living with him.

Starlink, at first I was so puzzled you mentioned that my boyfriend might have problems at work. (He owns a very small design agency. The economic status of the company was fine so he did not work so hard to maintain it. Instead he played computer games in his office all-day and depended on his parents to manage the company for him) A month after you have interpreted the chart, his major client called and told him that they are not gonna offer him any more projects. His company then went into a crisis and he had to disperse all his employees.

At this point, I was so afraid and anxious. He didn't tell me much about the crisis of his company - even until now. I tried to be caring and asked him if there is anything I could help but he was just covering everything not letting me know. We now have to worry about where we should live in the short future. He suggested that I might have to move out to live by myself and he could live with his parents in order to save money. 5 years ago, he had promised me that we would get marry before my 25th birthday. There are 4 more months and I would be 25, but we haven't discussed anything about our future lives. We have been together for over 8 years, but he doesn't seem to be prepared for marriage, which makes me feeling quite frustrated and sad towards this relationship. I really want to move on but I don't want to wait forever...

Regarding my friend. We did not move further than being "friends" after the last chart. However, from his words, I could still feel the passion from him. He tried to avoid every time I talked about my boyfriend's issues. Lately, He told me that he has planned to come and visit me in coming January and hinted that he has something important to tell me. He asked if I am willing to go travel with him during that time. I was so nervous. I like him a lot that I don't wanna hurt him, or hurting any one around me is the least thing I wanted. I really don't know what I should do.

I casted another chart. This time the placements of the stars bother me.
Jupiter, my first house ruler conjuncts with Moon (which also signify the 5th house) lies in 11th house (My friend's first house). The conjunction trines Saturn (Ruler of 11th - my friend) but at the same time having a difficult angle with Mercury (Ruler of 7th house - my boyfriend) whereas Mercury is under combustion.

One interesting thing is, when Pisces is lying on the first house which represents myself, and Virgo on the 7th house representing my boyfriend,
my natal chart indeed has very obvious Pisces personality (Jupiter conjuncts Neptune lying on my natal ascendant) and my boyfriend is actually a Virgo.

The chart is bothering me and I would be much appreciated if somebody willing to interpret it again. It doesn't matter if you are busy. Thanks

 

[archergirl]

Oh, I definitely see you getting together with your friend! The Moon (the action) separates from Jupiter and applies to Saturn, translating the light. This seems pretty straightforward. Saturn sits in the house of 'relationships'; this is where you would like him to be. Keep in mind, however, that there are mixed receptions here, which may or may not affect his feelings for you.

Mercury (your current boyfriend) retrogrades back to square Jupiter (you) again...continuing difficulties.

I would say, if your friend comes and offers you a chance to travel with him, take it! Your current boyfriend doesn't sound like he is mature enough to be a good husband for you...find yourself someone who will treat you nicely and be happy to marry you, if that is what you really want. I don't think your current boyfriend is 'the One', and that is okay.

Good luck!
AG

 

[Narcissus]

Hi Archergirl,
Thanks a lot for your response! Indeed, ever since my friend hinted to me that he likes me, I finally discover my feeling towards him.

But still, I really don't know how to let go of the current relationship. As I have been together with my boyfriend for over 8 years, it's really hard. For the first 5 years, he was living in New York and we were having a long distance relationship. It was a very difficult time for both of us. We finally get it through but it is so sad that love doesn't last long and lives start to get tougher and tougher. We had so many big fights and break-ups during the previous years. Every time I said break up, he told me that he would improve to make me stay, but end up he turns back into the immature kid very soon. I just don't know, and perhaps I should make a decision before my 25th birthday - if he is not making up his mind to get married with me, then I might have to move forward alone on my own.

As my signifier lies in his 5th house, I suspect he still loves me, but he loves me as casual lover more than wanting me to become his wife.

Mercury - my boyfriend signifier lies in my 7th house, pointing out the fact that I wanted him to get married with me? But as he is in a difficult position and also under combustion, I think he is not going to promise anything in a short term.

Jupiter is at fall but at the same time in term of Capricorn in 11th house. I scare there might be some underlying issues between me and my friend? I don't know what is gonna happen when he visits. I just feel so uncertain towards many things..I wish I could settle down and have a final answer to my current relationship before anything happens.

 

[starlink]

Narcissus, With this new chart it is indeed very clear that you and friend will get together, but in what way is of course a different matter. I have not seen a new question regarding this chart however and I presume that the same question is applying.

Indeed, Moon in this new chart transfers the light from Jupiter to Saturn and Mercury is going to square Jupiter, showing, like AG also said, problems yet again. You dont want that for the rest of your life now dont you? (as you seem to have had several problems in the past as well. I understand how you feel, but I also think that you should think about yourself after 8 years of waiting.

if he is not making up his mind to get married with me, then I might have to move forward alone on my own.

I doubt you will be on your own.....! What is Pluto doing at the moment in your natal chart? Begging you to let go maybe?? Have a look.

Keep us posted please!
Good luck to you, Starlink

 

[Narcissus]

Hi Starlink,

Many thanks for your reply again!
Yes I am asking the same question as I did few months ago. (As there were changes happened between me and my boyfriend, and my friend did really hinted me that he likes me, so I think it could be appropriate to ask the same question again..)

arh...problems again. Every time when we are encountering problems, my boyfriend gets mad very easily and he insults me with vicious words or dumping me on the street of somewhere I am not familiar with. I hate it and I feel so drained up every time we have an issue. I really hope that we could solve the problems peacefully but unluckily not.

Talking about Pluto, currently I am having a Pluto transit passing my ascendant at the same time conjuncts my Jupiter and Neptune. I understand that I must overcome all these transformation brought by Pluto in order to get strong. Pluto's lessons are never easy and always mean letting go of the past to grow. (My father passed away when Pluto transit and conjuncts with my natal Saturn and Mars) The only thing I could do is to face it and learn...

 

[cassanra]

Sounds like he has anger issues. The Pluto transiting Neptune is bad enough but jupiter too?....it will expand the issues...and the ascendant....I suspect you might be seeing things through those rose colored glasses double time but Pluto might help transition and see how the two together play to make you vulnerable. I just don't like to hear someone treating another like what you just described...it sounds too much like verbal abuse...marraige will just increase the problem....it never helps...right now you have an out. I have an old boyfriend who started some shananigans like that and I was so sad when we split up and he went to someone else and married her. But five years later they were divorced and I am sure the same shananigans were going on in there relationships. I am working with TBI or traumatic brain injury patients and it just dawned on me about a week ago that he had had a brain injury, pretty significant one, though seemed okay...smart as a tack, completed a degree in chemistry/biology but TBIs have problems with emotions. Just threw that in but it might be lady luck looking out for you not the other way around.

 

[starlink]

Narcissus, I am not surprised that Pluto is transiting over your Ascendant. It will for sure put an end to your relationship (as it did with my marriage as well, even after many many years). And reading this:

he insults me with vicious words or dumping me on the street of somewhere I am not familiar with

REALLY makes me think you should move on a.s.a.p!!!
You dont want to become a battered wife!!! Dont you think a marriage will change his behavior, if anything, it will get worse, trust me!!
Pluto lessons are great lessons. I am extremely grateful that I had it happening to me and after that got a new chance at happiness. You will too!

Take care.
Starlink

 

[cassanra]

I know this is a little off topic but Pluto is transiting (albeit slowly) over my MC and then will square my AC/DC....I see the two of you both share experiences in relation to Plutos transits crossing the ASC. Do you know if a square to the ASC has the same has the same effect? Pluto solar arc to my DC had me married then divorced at its last pass through yikes! Just curious...I have been watching that Pluto for some time....it natally trines saturn at the MC so it is flirting with a conjunction now. No luck on jobs or relationships but I find your experiences food for thought.

 

[Narcissus]

Hi Starlink and Cassanra,

Narcissus, I am not surprised that Pluto is transiting over your Ascendant. It will for sure put an end to your relationship (as it did with my marriage as well, even after many many years).

Really? I am sorry to hear that but at the same time I am happy for you as you could live with the changes brought by Pluto and learnt a lot eventually. I always thought our love affairs could last until Pluto transits over Venus or any of the planets representing our relationships instead of the ascendant. Although I knew I would be having a Pluto transit in advanced, I was not prepared for this sorrow and unexpected change this time. I had lots of changes happened in my life within the past year brought by Pluto: Leaving my family and move to another country with my boyfriend, changing jobs, and now breaking-up (if I break-up with him, I have to reconsider whether I should still be staying in my current company and this country - It's a Third World, I do not like this place, but I came for him)...All incidents come so suddenly and severely which do not allow me to pause and think how to deal with them.

I have been awaiting for him to change and grow up throughout all these years, and perhaps he is waiting for me to change as well. I know love is all about appreciation instead of transforming someone into who you expect him to be...but I just can't help, it's hard to live with someone who gets mad so easily...I am learning to be more decisive and hopefully and I could leave this bad relationship eventually. It really takes time for me to rethink about this 8-year relationship.

The Pluto transiting Neptune is bad enough but jupiter too?....it will expand the issues...and the ascendant....I suspect you might be seeing things through those rose colored glasses double time

Indeed, I always see the world with rose colored lens...LOL. (Thankfully, the 2 planets conjuncts with my ascendant makes me a great illustrator and designer - to create beautiful things visually!) But fortunately, I do not have a Pisces ascendant (I have Capricorn ascendant instead) or I dare not to imagine how I am gonna live in my own imagination.

For this Pluto transit over the ascendant, though most experiences are full of grief and sorrow, luckily I have something good: The first year when I came to this place (I am living in China right now) with my boyfriend, I was working in his company to help him out. Afterward a well-known branding company in the US reached me saying that they were setting up a branch in China. I am having great learning experiences and a good boss in this new company which is probably the best decision I have ever made!

Thank you both of you for your sharing and insight! You cheered me up and encouraged me to look on the bright side!

Good luck to both of you as well!

 

[starlink]

Narcissus, thanks for your explanations and trust. I know how hard it must be for you. Fear is the biggest issue, always, when leaving someone. But you have an exit!! Your friend wants to go on a trip with you. Please DO it and tell you boyfriend that you want to have a good hard look on the relationship with him and need some time away. Think of yourself now. Good luck in everything!!

Starlink

 

[barbh]

Hi Narcissus

As to the first chart, I would take your friend as the 7th house. He is the one you are asking about, and you are asking about him in a romantic way. Frawley says to use the 7th for those kinds of questions. Its really a, 'does he have romantic feelings for me' kind of question. It's a relationship question. The boyfriend is irrelevant to the specific question at hand, although you could still find him in the chart somewhere. Sort of like using Saturn as the unwanted spouse in 3rd party charts. although I'm way behind on this thread....sounds like you've already got it all sorted out.

cheers
barbh

 

[starlink]

Hi Barbh! That is good reasoning in itself and normally I also would do this but Narcissus is specifically talking about my friend and "are we still just friends":

I wanted to confirm is there anything happening between me and my friend, or are we still just friends?

This is the reason I did not put him in the 7th house and I dont think that the boyfriend is irrelevant in this case when you read this:

I am still having hard time with my boyfriend, I do not know whether I still love him, and vice versa, but both of us are not ready to let go of the relationship.

But I agree, this is a situation where you could probably do both.

Starlink

 

[starlink]

Cassandra, you asked:

Do you know if a square to the ASC has the same has the same effect?

No, I dont think so. The Ascendant is pure personal (physical, healthwise,) so Pluto there would strongly affect you personally. It will force you to let go of things that have no meaning in your life anymore, things that are outgrown and wont bring you further. Because it opposes the 7th house, your gradual change will affect the relationship. So you have an effect on others.

Now if Pluto is conjunct MC or in the 10th house or 4th house for that matter, then these houses are the focus point affecting you, things like powerstruggles in the job after which you decide: sodd it, I leave this place.
Pluto coming from the 4th house will throw family matters at you or bring back memories from your childhood because of upsetting things happening in your family (death, earthquakes), which therefore, indirectly, affect you.

This is how I have seen it work.

Cheers, Starlink

 

[Narcissus]

Hi Barbh

Hi Narcissus

As to the first chart, I would take your friend as the 7th house. He is the one you are asking about, and you are asking about him in a romantic way. Frawley says to use the 7th for those kinds of questions.

Thanks for your replying!
Your questioning raise my attention to rethink on the applied houses.

At the beginning I was thinking to take 7th house to represent my friend as you do. But Starlink was right, my friend was not someone that has a "real relationship" with me and we are still friends. Moreover, boyfriend was also involved in the problem (I would call it a problem, although I didn't include him in the question, I was having a concern towards him on the whole picture...), he is someone that we should also consider in the chart as a factor. Well...the result proves and we learnt from within. The second chart I cast almost proved the houses we have taken are right: I was thinking of my friend at the moment I cast it (and vice versa, my friend does) That's why we've got my first house ruler and the moon on 11th house...I was still treating my boyfriend as a mate hoping we would get married, and that's why mercury in my 7th house.

 

[archergirl]

The second chart I cast almost proved the houses we have taken are right: I was thinking of my friend at the moment I cast it (and vice versa, my friend does) That's why we've got my first house ruler and the moon on 11th house...I was still treating my boyfriend as a mate hoping we would get married, and that's why mercury in my 7th house.

This is exactly the way horary should be studied, IMHO. Emplacements are so crucial, especially in questions with more than two people involved. Sometimes selecting simply by house (e.g. 7th for boyfriend, 11th for friend, etc.) don't give us enough 'evidence' that we have chosen correctly..and choosing correctly is really important! Seeing where the planets are placed, and what they're doing, sometimes gives us a better picture. On the other hand, sometimes charts simply don't make any sense no matter how one looks at it!

Good luck with everything , Narcissus!
AG

 

[Narcissus]

Hi all,
Some quick updates:
I broke up with my BF and moved away from him in Oct 2008,
My friend came to find me on the Valentine's Day and he is now my BF!

Thanks a lot for your help!