# Are my Sun & Saturn conjuncting

#### GuyWithWeirdChart

##### Well-known member
Here is my chart

http://imgur.com/aXrZtcl

As you can see they are 12 degrees apart instead of the 10 degree max, but I have read the Sun Saturn Conjunction description and it is really accurate. Especially the whole cold father thing and the feeling of responsibility.

Is there a possibility that they are conjuncting even though they are 12 degrees apart from each other??

Any input would help, thanks

#### Zarathu

##### Account Closed
12 degrees apart is not a conjunction, sorry.

I use 4 for the lights and 3 for planets as the orb.

The "cold father thing" can be found in many other ways if it does exist.

#### GuyWithWeirdChart

##### Well-known member
Hmm... well you're orbs seem to be a bit small, anybody else share?

#### Zarathu

##### Account Closed
The wider your aspect are the more you can ascribe ANYTHING to what you see. The tighter the aspects you use the more accurate your description.

Of course since I am using Astrodynes to make determinations using 700 asteroids 1350 Witte Sensitive points, three sets of 360 degree symbolic systems, personal charts, 260 arabic parts, DML, Vertex, the Nodes, planetary charts, and much much more, I don't need to have really wide orbs to get very very specific information. Every orb increase beyond my tight ones exponentially increases the overload of information.

#### JUPITERASC

##### Well-known member
Hmm... well you're orbs seem to be a bit small, anybody else share?
There's a useful traditional Study Aid that calculates THE MAXIMUM DISTANCE AT WHICH PLANETS ARE IN ORB OF EACH OTHER - The emboldened figures use the most commonly accepted orb allowance -The figures in normal type indicate a wider allowance accepted by some

Using the standard list (emboldened type), we see that the orb for Sun is 15°
for Saturn the orb is 9°.
Added together the orb is 24°
i.e.
12° either side of the aspect.

So according to this measurement then that is a conjunction

The table shows this if you read across the top row until you find the column headed 'Sun' and then look down that column until you find the figure listed in bold on the row headed 'Saturn'.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspectorbs.html

#### GuyWithWeirdChart

##### Well-known member
Wow that is really cool, thanks a lot

#### Moog

##### Well-known member
I would say for most purposes, not conjunct. Yes, however on combust

#### GuyWithWeirdChart

##### Well-known member
So it seems that my Saturn, Mars, and Venus are all combust, what does this mean for me??

Does this make the planets weaker than they already are?

Or what exactly does combust do?

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#### JUPITERASC

##### Well-known member
So it seems that my Saturn, Mars, and Venus are all combust, what does this mean for me??

Does this make the planets weaker than they already are?

Or what exactly does combust do?
That depends on the distance of the planet from the Sun

QUOTE

'....A planet is combust when in conjunction with Sun and hidden from sight by light of Sun. Traditionally a serious debility that implies the planet is weakened or restricted in power. However, if the planet is within 17 minutes of the Sun, it is termed Cazimi - in the heart of the Sun - and considered strengthened by the union

William Lilly stated that the combust planet should be in same sign as Sun within 8° 30'
Beyond that distance, but within 17 ° of Sun, the planet is 'under the Sun's beams', a debilitating condition, but not as severe as combustion....'

'….Lilly wrote of this: "The significator of the Querent combust, shows him or her in great fear, and overpowered by some great person". (CA., p.113)

However, later, in his horary volume, (p.300): he also writes:

A Planet within 12 degrees of the Sun, is said to be under his Beames, and then hath not fortitude, let it be in what Signe it will; when a Planet is within 16 minutes of the Sun, he is said to be in Cazimi, or heat of the Sun, and then it's an addition of fortune, and he is wonderous strong...'

That aphorism was no doubt translated from the work of an older author, but it appears to acknowledge the controversy regarding whether a planet
can be combust when in a different sign to the Sun. JB MORIN ON COMBUSTION AND CAZIMI
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4365&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

For a modern discussion of this controversial issue, see the forum thread: 'Combustion' http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=716&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

#### GuyWithWeirdChart

##### Well-known member
Ohh I see...

So basically if if my Venus, Mars, and Saturn are all combust that means all the aspects that they have (Venus trine Pluto, moon sextile venus, mars conj saturn, mars square pluto, mercury conj mars etc.) are all useless and do not have any effect on the planets???

Is this what it means?

Also, I have been looking into Combustion a lot, and some say that a planet is combust when it is close to the sun (like within 6 degrees) and according to you its when it is in between 8 and 17 degrees (varying) so which is it?

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#### JUPITERASC

##### Well-known member
Ohh I see...

So basically if if my Venus, Mars, and Saturn are all combust that means all the aspects that they have (Venus trine Pluto, moon sextile venus, mars conj saturn, mars square pluto, mercury conj mars etc.) are all useless and do not have any effect on the planets???

Is this what it means?

Also, I have been looking into Combustion a lot, and some say that a planet is combust when it is close to the sun (like within 6 degrees) and according to you its when it is in between 8 and 17 degrees (varying) so which is it?
Not so much 'according to me', as according to a Glossary of Traditional Astrological Terms at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/combust.html

btw there's detailed discussion on those links I posted which is likely to provide more insight

#### JUPITERASC

##### Well-known member
I've read astrologers who have called planets conjunct at 12 degrees and this was between non luminaries. Others feel it's much tighter.

Since the conjunct is the most powerful aspect I myself use an about 10 degree orb. The highest I'll go is just slightly over 10. Ie my north node is 10'05 degrees apart from my Chiron. Yet the experiences of north node conjunct chiron are a huge part of my life mission and always have been before I even got into the occult sciences.

Listen to what others have to say, then look at some charts (your own, ppl you know) and go with what your intuition tells you.
Experience is an excellent teacher, so do look at some charts as advised. Remember as we;; that two hundred charts is the minimum required for a reasonable statistical study

#### Moog

##### Well-known member
So it seems that my Saturn, Mars, and Venus are all combust, what does this mean for me??

Does this make the planets weaker than they already are?

Or what exactly does combust do?

That's a matter of some controversy.

Some say nothing.

Some say it weakens the planets, or their effects.

Personally I say it weakens the planets. However, planets may be strong due to other factors, so it is not necessarily completely debilitating.

#### dr. farr

##### Well-known member
For me:
-Sun and Saturn are not in conjunction by degree (Mars and Saturn are conjunct by degree)
-Sun, Saturn, Mars and Venus are all in "platik unity" (old time term for being "conjunct by sign") and Vedic astrology would also consider these 4 planets conjoined because they are all in the same sign
-check to see if Saturn and the Sun are in Parallel of declination (within 2 degrees of declination, on the same side of the ecliptic) If they are in Parallel then they are defacto in strong conjunction (regardless of degree or sign considerations)