Are Lunar Returns Even Important?

Zuri

Well-known member
I've been following my lunar returns for some months now, but I feel as though it's a waste of time. My last lunar return (which ended yesterday) was supposed to be this big deal, since my Lunar Return Ascendant was the same as my natal Ascendant. However, nothing out of the ordinary happened. In fact, in almost all of the months so far my lunar returns haven't gone as the reports have indicated.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I've been following my lunar returns for some months now, but I feel as though it's a waste of time. My last lunar return (which ended yesterday) was supposed to be this big deal, since my Lunar Return Ascendant was the same as my natal Ascendant. However, nothing out of the ordinary happened. In fact, in almost all of the months so far my lunar returns haven't gone as the reports have indicated.
Is your natal ascendant accurate?

As well as that apparently Sidereal lunar returns are the most accurate according to some schools of thought. Just my two cents worth :smile:
 

Culpeper

Premium Member
I once did a series of lunar return charts for my own and several other charts with accurate birth times. There was no correspondence with actual events at all. My conclusion is that they are of not useful and a waste of time.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I've been following my lunar returns for some months now, but I feel as though it's a waste of time. My last lunar return (which ended yesterday) was supposed to be this big deal, since my Lunar Return Ascendant was the same as my natal Ascendant. However, nothing out of the ordinary happened. In fact, in almost all of the months so far my lunar returns haven't gone as the reports have indicated.

I believe they are important for what they are: the domain of the Moon. So they will not allude to earth-shaking matters, but rather a portrait of personal and ordinary day-to-day events.
 

Alice McDermott

Well-known member
I believe they are important for what they are: the domain of the Moon. So they will not allude to earth-shaking matters, but rather a portrait of personal and ordinary day-to-day events.

I agree with IleneK, these usually map ordinary events in life, though they can indicate matters like if a baby will be born that month and, if the angles trigger and outer planet transit, they can be quite good timers.

I really don't think most people get strong results from normal lunar returns, but parallax lunar returns are another matter - they can often clearly indicate the flow of events for the month. Parallax Lunar Returns are calculated from the visual position of the Moon at the place of birth, rather than the position of the Moon from the center of the Earth.

For example, attached is Obama's current parallax Lunar Return for Washington, DC. I have used Washington because I think that is where he will be for most of the month and, as he is the President, it is an important location.

Note the Vertex conjunct Saturn, the traditional ruler of the LR MC, and the Sun. This indicates a month of destiny and prominence. Mars on the Descendant indicates a very active month involving aggressive competition, Jupiter conjunct Ascendant and trine MC suggests good fortune in both the way he presents himself and in his career. Gemini rising gives a month of considerable communication.

Its interesting that the Vertex-Sun is trine his natal Sun/Moon and Asc/MC midpoints.

Also atttached is his lunar return for Chicago, where he waited for the results of the election. It is interesting that the Ascendant is conjunct his natal Part of Kings.

Alice
 

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gen6k

Well-known member
well this month i had jupiter in 5th and my creativity did go up. now i have mars and pluto in the 5th.

im using natal lunar return.

SR, Solar Arc, Transits better for tracking events.

if your moon is erratic for example you may feel it in a different way.

plus the efficacy of it would be natal + lunar + SR or something of that sort where everything has to click.

im not sure it may just be bunk. maybe its one of those things where it shows bunk thoughts you know?
 

unique_astrology

Well-known member
A particular type of lunar return can be perhaps the greatest timing tool available to astrologers if done in a certain manner.

My observation comes from more than 40 years of working with them. The lunar return most effective in producing symbolism appropriate to an event for the time of the event by virtue of said symbolism being swept by the progressed angles (within 2° - a 4 hour window before or after the event as compared to transits which may be exact or within a 2° orb days before or after the event) is the progressed anlunar or demi-anlunar (lunar return from the nearest solar or demi-solar return preceding the event).

All returns need to be precession corrected.

The lunar return is progressed at the rate of movement of the Moon since the return's inception.

Almost always the returns should be done for the place of residence, not birth.

The work of learning techniques must be done. Pressing on a screen or clicking on an icon and expecting to be spoon fed an answer will not prove productive.

Examples may be viewed and downloaded from these links:

http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f111/unique_astrology/

http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f111/unique_astrology/1 Set up and Betancourt/

Bob
 
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divisiontheory

New member
I have been studying astrology for 35 years, and I'm here to tell you not only that lunar returns (LRs) do work, but that they are one of my key predictive tools. Pay close attention to aspects to the angles, and aspects between the lights, and compare the LRs to the current Solar Return (SR) , transits, and progressions. If you have a full moon in the current SR, any LR with a new or full moon will bring significant developments. But the best way to learn how LRs work is to watch them in action in your own chart and those of your loved ones, friends, and clients. Examine the last twenty years worth of LRs in your own life, and carefully examine the LRs in effect at key moments in your life, and soon you will see them talking to you in their own language.

If a set of LRs are consistently inaccurate, that is a huge red flag telling you to re-examine the accuracy of the birth time you are working with.

The first LRs of a person's life are hugely important. The first LR rules the person's life from age 27 - age 54. The second LR rules the person's life from age 54 - 82, and the third LR rules the life from age 82 - 110. If any of these LRs contain an afflicted full moon, quarter moon, or new moon, or if the chart contains multiple severe afflictions to the Sun, Moon, and/or Ascendant, the chart likely indicates mortality in that period.
 

LeoCassandra

Well-known member
I have been studying astrology for 35 years, and I'm here to tell you not only that lunar returns (LRs) do work, but that they are one of my key predictive tools. Pay close attention to aspects to the angles, and aspects between the lights, and compare the LRs to the current Solar Return (SR) , transits, and progressions. If you have a full moon in the current SR, any LR with a new or full moon will bring significant developments. But the best way to learn how LRs work is to watch them in action in your own chart and those of your loved ones, friends, and clients. Examine the last twenty years worth of LRs in your own life, and carefully examine the LRs in effect at key moments in your life, and soon you will see them talking to you in their own language.

If a set of LRs are consistently inaccurate, that is a huge red flag telling you to re-examine the accuracy of the birth time you are working with.

The first LRs of a person's life are hugely important. The first LR rules the person's life from age 27 - age 54. The second LR rules the person's life from age 54 - 82, and the third LR rules the life from age 82 - 110. If any of these LRs contain an afflicted full moon, quarter moon, or new moon, or if the chart contains multiple severe afflictions to the Sun, Moon, and/or Ascendant, the chart likely indicates mortality in that period.
Oo this is very intersting:kissing: Thanks for sharing
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
This is a perfect example of my viewpoint that you have to know before you start with any chart what is going to be high and low power and high and low friction, in the houses, the signs, and the aspects.

This is your first step in any chart.

The second step is to find the same for the natal chart or the 2ndary progressed chart if you are older than 20 years old.

And if there is no substantial aspect between the planets in the natal chart, then there there will be no actual event related to it. Maybe a lot of talk or emotional or mental thoughts, but no actual event in the real world.

People just jump right into these charts without doing the background preparation, and it no wonder that they find no events showing up.

And in regards to a lunar return, how many of us have earth shattering events every month? Its all relative.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
I have been studying astrology for 35 years, and I'm here to tell you not only that lunar returns (LRs) do work, but that they are one of my key predictive tools. Pay close attention to aspects to the angles, and aspects between the lights, and compare the LRs to the current Solar Return (SR) , transits, and progressions. If you have a full moon in the current SR, any LR with a new or full moon will bring significant developments. But the best way to learn how LRs work is to watch them in action in your own chart and those of your loved ones, friends, and clients. Examine the last twenty years worth of LRs in your own life, and carefully examine the LRs in effect at key moments in your life, and soon you will see them talking to you in their own language.

If a set of LRs are consistently inaccurate, that is a huge red flag telling you to re-examine the accuracy of the birth time you are working with.

The first LRs of a person's life are hugely important. The first LR rules the person's life from age 27 - age 54. The second LR rules the person's life from age 54 - 82, and the third LR rules the life from age 82 - 110. If any of these LRs contain an afflicted full moon, quarter moon, or new moon, or if the chart contains multiple severe afflictions to the Sun, Moon, and/or Ascendant, the chart likely indicates mortality in that period.

Thank you for sharing this information. I am interested to examine further for myself.

I see that the early life lunar returns rule periods of life that correspond to the secondary progressed lunar returns at around age 27, 54 and 82, and I was wondering if you might know anything about how these early LRs became connected with the progressed lunar return periods. Just curious....

Cheers,
 

astro11

Well-known member
Lunar returns when they are precessed do work, in my experience when transiting planets make important aspects to the inner planets in the lunar return, the events of that month occur, usually within a couple days or exact. Keep in mind that the theme must be running in other charts such as solar arc, solar return, progressions etc. I recently wrote a blog post about predictive charts in the Amanda Knox trial in Italy, the transiting planets to the lunar return chart inner planets were exact day timers:

http://www.astronumerologywisdom.com/blog.html
 

FraterAC

Well-known member
The lunar return is progressed at the rate of movement of the Moon since the return's inception.
I interpret this to mean the Lunar return is progressed by the "Lunar arc" described by the Moon's position in the LR itself to the Moon's position at the time of the event. Correct?
I apply this "lunar arc" to the Midheaven and progress the LR chart forward in time at the LR's location. This will rotate the chart and its angles and move the Moon forward some number of degrees (to a maximum of 13 or so, ie. one day's motion); the other planets will also progress very slightly. Within the period of the Lunar return the entire chart will rotate 360 degrees.
This is the first time I've seen this technique described. I have recently been using this and found it to be very useful.
 

FraterAC

Well-known member
In response to the question, "Are lunar returns even important?" I will go one step further and say, "Is it possible to progress a lunar return in a meaningful way?"
Here is the tropical lunar return for the actress Sharon Tate, who was tragically and brutally murdered in the early morning hours of Aug 9, 1969. The return is based on the birth location of the Moon in the tropical zodiac.
I am presenting this in a bi-wheel, with the radix on the inside and the progressed Lunar return on the outside. The progressed return chart is calculated by using the arc in longitude traveled by the Moon from the time of the lunar return to the time of the event, added to the longitude of the MC of the lunar return. The positions of the Moon and other planets are calculated based on the time interval to raise the calculated degree to the MC. In other words, the chart is advanced by the Lunar Arc occurring between the return and the event, applied to the MC.
The rulers of the 8th house (Aquarius) in the radix are Saturn and Uranus.
The progressed LR Ascendant is semisquare LR Uranus (and Jupiter). Progressed MC is conjunct LR Saturn, and both the MC and Saturn are sesquiquadrate LR Pluto. The progressed LR Moon is also conjunct LR Pluto and sesquiquadrate Saturn (and just over one degree -- 1:08' -- of the aspect from the progressed MC). LR Neptune is square the Moon's North and South Nodes, which are in the 2nd and 8th houses, respectively. All these aspects are within one degree, some less than half a degree.
So the tropical lunar return progressed by Lunar Arc to the MC puts both angles, Asc and MC, and the Moon in hard aspects to the two rulers of the 8th house, and Pluto.
Of course these are not the only astrological indicators of this ghastly and tragic event, but it is clear in its indications.
So in this case anyway, the answers to the two questions above are "Yes" and "Yes."

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FraterAC

Well-known member
To continue with the above case:
As for the tropical lunar return of 7/18/69 itself, Venus, the ruler of the Ascendant and 8th house, is in the 8th house square the Moon in the 11th. The Moon is closely inconjunct Eris, the planet of chaos, in the 6th house, which is the 8th house of the house of the Moon (ie the 6th house is the 8th house by counting from the 11th house in which the Moon resides). Eris is also sesquiquatrate Neptune in Scorpio. Mars, indicating violence, is in hard aspect to all the angles, being semisquare the Asc and IC, and sesquiquadrate the MC and Dsc. Pluto in the 12th is in close conjunction (1:08) with the South Node of the Moon.
Saturn, one of the rulers of the radical 8th house, is exactly (angle of exactly 135:00) sesquiquadrate Pluto in the 12th.
Note that the Moon is in the 11th, the house of friends. Three of Ms. Tate's friends and another individual were also killed that night.
All the aspects in this example are one degree or less.
There were other indications provided by other astrological techniques as well, but in this simple tropical lunar return we see some indications of the terrible event to come.

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FraterAC

Well-known member
Here is a tropical Lunar Return for an older client. Twenty one days after this return, the native was involved in an automobile accident within five miles of their home. Although there were no serious injuries, the two cars involved were both totaled.

Natal Neptune at Libra 15:20 is the highest elevated and most angular planet in the Lunar Return chart, which has a Midheaven of Libra 15:08. We will therefore look to the LR Neptune, its placement and aspects, to begin to judge the LR chart.
LR Neptune is in the LR 3rd house of short trips in close opposition (0:19’) to LR Mercury in the 9th. Both are in their dignities, Neptune in Pisces and Mercury in Virgo. LR Mars is sesquiquadrate (0:55’) to LR Mercury, semisquare (0:36’) LR Neptune, and square LR Uranus (1:30’). Mercury/Neptune might indicate mental confusion or distraction, as well as impaired vision (see below), and Mars/Uranus sudden violent events.

LR Uranus is also in close sesquiquadrate (0:26’) to the LR Ascendant (Sagittarius 17:27), semisquare (2:06) LR Neptune, sesquiquadrate (2:25’) LR Mercury, and opposition (1:01) LR Venus, the despositor of Neptune in the nativity. LR Uranus is definitely in hard aspect to the primary indicators in this configuration.

The LR Sun is semisquare (0:29) natal Mars in the natal 12th house, sesquiquadrate (0:29) the antiscion Midheaven, and square (0:50) the antiscion Uranus, which is in Gemini (the 3rd zodiacal “house”) in the 8th house of destruction. The LR Sun therefore repeats with hard aspects the Mars/Uranus, and 3rd house themes detailed above.
Note also that Secondary (Major) progressed Mars at Sagittarius 22:19 (not shown) was square and applying (1:13) natal Mercury, in opposition (0:26’) to antiscion Uranus (in Gemini in the 8th house, as noted above) and sesquiquadrate (0:48) the antiscion Midheaven. Thus further amplifying the Mars/Uranus theme.

The driver of the other vehicle said he “never saw” the native’s car. Note LR Mercury in the 9th, which is the 7th house (the other) of the 3rd house (the native’s trip). Mercury is traditionally held to represent the sense of sight, or vision; here, LR Mercury is afflicted by LR Neptune.
The charts below show a bi-wheel with the nativity outside the Lunar Return, and a tri-wheel showing the nativity on the inside with the antiscion in the middle and Lunar Return on the outside.
 

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FraterAC

Well-known member
Its so unusual to see the AstrolDeluxe wheel represented here. Did you have an opportunity to develop a friendship with John Haloran? He’s almost retired now, and spends a lot of time out on his sailboat. I never could get him to put Dark Moon LIlith, the trans-pluto objects or anything that could not be seen in a telescope in his program. God....I tried.

I still use my copy in Windows XP, on a 2021 m1pro Macbook pro.
I never had much contact with him, just a few very brief exchanges about the product. He seemed very matter of fact and nice. I figured he was retiring, although I hope support for the software continues.
The major asteroids, Dark Moon Lilith and Eris are now included. There are a lot of features in it that I would hate to be without. It's my primary software.
 

FraterAC

Well-known member
In response to the very many requests for clarification regarding how the Lunar Return charts above were progressed (just kidding), I’m presenting my methodology below. This method of progressing the Tropical LR chart by applying a Lunar Arc to the MC of the LR occurred to me as an inspiration not too long ago, although I subsequently came across an oblique reference to the same or a very similar method in this very string.

The example chart is the tropical Lunar Return (TLR) chart for Sharon Tate, dated July 18, 1969, preceding the terrible murders of her and her friends the morning of August 9, 1969. Below is a tri-wheel, with the 7/18/69 TLR on the inside, the Progressed TLR in the middle, and a chart of the Transits at the approximate time of the assaults on 8/9/1969 on the outside.

In the Transit chart we see the Moon has traveled from Virgo 12:30 in the TLR to Cancer 3:44, nine signs 21:14, or 291.13 degrees (in decimal format to facilitate calculations). This is the Lunar Arc. This is the amount of longitude to be added to the MC of the TLR to progress it to the time of the event (the assaults). The MC of the TLR is Cancer 17:34, or 107.5667 degrees. Adding the Lunar Arc to the MC of the TLR gives us 38.80 or Taurus 8:48 (note that 360 degrees needed to be added, then subtracted, to keep the answers within the 360 degree circle of the Zodiac).

The following table presents the calculations described.

To progress Lunar Returns:ZodiacDegrees
Moon at Event TransitCancer 3:4493.7333
TLR MoonVirgo 12:30(162.5000)
add 360 degrees360.0000
Lunar Arc9 signs, 21:14291.23
MC Long Trop Lunar ReturnCancer 17:34107.5667
subtract 360 degrees(360.0000)
MC Long Prog TLRTaurus 8:4838.80

The progressed TLR chart is created by advancing the MC of the TLR to the desired longitude, allowing the Ascendant, Moon and other planets to advance as well. This process is somewhat fiddly, and if anyone is aware of a software that does, or can be made to do this, please let me know.
This is the method used in a nutshell.
I will comment further on these charts shortly.
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FraterAC

Well-known member
A few observations on this study of the Lunar Return preceding the murder of Sharon Tate, referring to the tri-wheel above and charts posted before on 2/9/23.
The transiting mean South Node of the Moon (MSN) is very closely conjunct the tropical Lunar Return (TLR) Pluto to 02’, in very close sesquiquadrate to TLR Saturn (03’); and sesquiquadrate the progressed TLR Midheaven (28’), and conjunct progressed TLR Moon (39’). It’s also conjunct transiting Pluto (36’). All of this is in the 12th house of the TLR. Saturn is co-ruler of the natal 8th house.
I don’t think the MSN is usually thought of as having any power in itself; a lot of writers and some software omit it completely. My early reading said the Nodes were only considered if within 3 degrees of conjunction with a natal planet, otherwise they should be ignored. In the natal chart, the MSN is at Aquarius 26:15 in the 8th house; its closest neighbor is Venus at Aquarius 20:43, out of orb by that standard.
There is also discussion as to whether the mean or true nodes should be used, in this case, I have used the mean nodes.
The Nodes also feature in the tropical Solar Return, which I’ll discuss in my SR thread.

Transiting Neptune at Scorpio 25:57 is square the natal MNN and MSN (18’) in the 2nd and 8th houses respectively. It is also very closely conjunct the antiscion Sun (02’) and Mercury (19’). In the proposed Transit chart, transiting Neptune is conjunct the Descendant, which is Scorpio 27:59 (at an orb of 2:02). Transiting Eris, planet of strife and chaos at Aries 12:29, is sesquiquadrate the Descendant (and/or semisquare the Asc, at 31’ orb) and Neptune (at 1:32). Eris is also inconjunct the natal Moon (02’).
The Eris of mythology was said to delight in the terror and carnage of the battlefield, and that definitely fits these bloody crimes.

Transiting Sun at Leo 16:32 is exactly semisquare transiting Uranus (00’), semisquare progressed TLR Uranus (53’) and Jupiter (58’), and conjunct the progressed TLR Ascendant (1:31). Transiting Uranus at Libra 1:31 is conjunct natal Neptune (25’) and square antiscion Mars (10’). Note that Uranus is the other co-ruler of the native's 8th house. The transiting Sun is also sesquiquadrate antiscion Mars (11’) and semisquare natal Neptune (25’).
Mars was square Neptune in Sharon Tate’s nativity (with a 3:17 orb). For what it’s worth, her natal Mars was square her antiscion Neptune (36’) and her antiscion Mars was square her natal Neptune (41’).

As a side note, the principal murderer (although all the accessories were convicted) was most likely Tex Watson (chart below), who admitted to being on acid at the time, combining sudden violence (Mars/Uranus) with drugs (Neptune). Watson’s rising sign was Leo, with Mars 1:08 from the Asc in the first house, sextile Neptune (orb of 4:59). Pluto was also in his 1st house, 8:29 from Mars, also sextile Neptune (3:30).

I believe these charts demonstrate by the number and closeness of appropriate aspects, the efficacy of the tropical Lunar Return and its progression by Lunar Arc to the LR MC in forecasting events, judged in conjunction with the natal chart. Transits and other factors (progressions, Solar Return) corroborate.
Comments?
 

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