Any hope of this couple reconciling?

Milarien

Well-known member
I can't see any hope, but I'm hoping that somebody else might. He's Mars, relatively strong, but peregrine and not seeing Venus at all. She's Venus, combust, and in a fateful degree (exact square to the north node). There is no aspect between them, but I wondered if the sun could possibly act as a collector here, having made an aspect to Mars and with Venus now applying, which isn't really great for her, but...

Any hope? Am I missing something?
 

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IleneK

Premium Member
I can't see any hope, but I'm hoping that somebody else might. He's Mars, relatively strong, but peregrine and not seeing Venus at all. She's Venus, combust, and in a fateful degree (exact square to the north node). There is no aspect between them, but I wondered if the sun could possibly act as a collector here, having made an aspect to Mars and with Venus now applying, which isn't really great for her, but...

Any hope? Am I missing something?


What you describe does not meet the definition of collection.

Collection of Light
Where two planets,
whether applying, separating or making no aspect to each other,
both apply to a third planet
that "collects their light"
and thereby establishes a relationship between the two.
 

Milarien

Well-known member
What you describe does not meet the definition of collection.

Collection of Light
Where two planets,
whether applying, separating or making no aspect to each other,
both apply to a third planet
that "collects their light"
and thereby establishes a relationship between the two.

Okay, thank you. I'd read a different definition or perhaps I'm confusing translation of light??

I've attached a different chart that I do consider has a collection of light through Mars. Would this be correct or am I wrong on this one too. It's not pertinent to this question, but pertinent to my understanding. Cheers :)
 

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waybread

Well-known member
Who are the people? It makes a difference as to how we assign the houses.

Are you inquiring about yourself? Friends? Relatives?
 

Milarien

Well-known member
Who are the people? It makes a difference as to how we assign the houses.

Are you inquiring about yourself? Friends? Relatives?

The people in the first chart are a very dear friend and his long term partner who up and left him... so L11 and L5 (being his turned 7th house) in the first chart. It's not trivial... he would very much like to know.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
I wouldn't see the sun collecting light in the case of the first chart, because it has passed its aspects with both Mars and Venus. The Mars aspect occurred some time ago, so the sun is now out-of-orb (moiety) for Mars. I would describe Venus as combust the sun.

The moon isn't helping matters.

I think it's over.
 
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Milarien

Well-known member
Yes, that was my thought too, but I was hoping someone might see something that I'd missed.

Thanks so much for taking the time to look.


I wouldn't see the sun collecting light in the case of the first chart, because it has passed its aspects with both Mars and Venus. The Mars aspect occurred some time ago, so the sun is now out-of-orb (moiety) for Mars. I would describe Venus as combust the sun.

The moon isn't helping matters.

I think it's over.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Okay, thank you. I'd read a different definition or perhaps I'm confusing translation of light??

I've attached a different chart that I do consider has a collection of light through Mars. Would this be correct or am I wrong on this one too. It's not pertinent to this question, but pertinent to my understanding. Cheers :)

Sun does not translate light between Mars and Venus in the original chart either because it does not separate from one while applying to the other.

To support the learning/understanding process, may I suggest that you first indicate what definition of collection of light that you have chosen to apply?

Then step by step, list how Mars collects light, naming the planets and aspects involved?

I would be glad to review your thinking to help you understand.
 
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Milarien

Well-known member
It was a reach, but I was looking at the fact that it *had* applied by square to Mars, and Venus was now applying to the Sun, so perhaps... I knew that was a reach... it's not a heavier planet, but it wasn't translating light either... guess I was just looking for a light in the dark...

Hmmm... in the second chart... yes, Mars is making an applying trine to Saturn and then an applying trine to the Moon... not really a collection of light at all is it... no. Sigh... there is so much to relearn after 30 years away... (raising two autistic children doesn't leave any time for other pursuits). But it is something that connects the two... so I'm not sure what to call it. It's out of order... it should have applied to one, then the other, which it does... but again it's not a heavier planet (is there a heavier planet than Saturn :/ ), so I'm not sure what to call it... collector was the best word I had for it.



Sun does not translate light between Mars and Venus in the original chart either because it does not separate from one while applying to the other.


To support the learning/understanding process, may I suggest that you first indicate what definition of collection of light that you have chosen to apply?

Then step by step, list how Mars collects light, naming the planets and aspects involved?

I would be glad to review your thinking to help you understand.
 

IleneK

Premium Member
It was a reach, but I was looking at the fact that it *had* applied by square to Mars, and Venus was now applying to the Sun, so perhaps... I knew that was a reach... it's not a heavier planet, but it wasn't translating light either... guess I was just looking for a light in the dark...

Hmmm... in the second chart... yes, Mars is making an applying trine to Saturn and then an applying trine to the Moon... not really a collection of light at all is it... no. Sigh... there is so much to relearn after 30 years away... (raising two autistic children doesn't leave any time for other pursuits). But it is something that connects the two... so I'm not sure what to call it. It's out of order... it should have applied to one, then the other, which it does... but again it's not a heavier planet (is there a heavier planet than Saturn :/ ), so I'm not sure what to call it... collector was the best word I had for it.


Thank you for sharing your thought process.

You write:
"in the second chart... yes, Mars is making an applying trine to Saturn
and then an applying trine to the Moon"
Mars does apply to trine Saturn. But Mars does not apply to trine Moon.

First of all, a slower planet like Mars by definition, cannot apply to trine a faster one like the Moon. So in this chart, Moon has long separated from its trine to Mars. Look carefully at the chart and you will see.

I am not exactly sure what you are seeing, but I do not think that Mars, Saturn, Moon relate between themselves in this chart by collection or translation of light.
Moon simply separates from Saturn.

At the same time, the process you are doing is an excellent way to learn, going in and looking closely, trying to see if groups of planets fit these special cases. I started astrology about 30 years ago, like you, before any of this sophisticated and coherent traditional astrology was translated and made available in the public domain like it is now. It takes a while to get the details down, but I think you will, based on your willingness to persist, look closely and think about what you are looking for.

So keep up the good work. It is worth it. :smile:
 
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Milarien

Well-known member
Thank you for the clarification. I really appreciate you taking the time :) So much has changed since I started, and then had to stop... there's so many more complexities to think about now and to look for.

You're quite right, the moon has long since finished the trine to Mars, as Mars is the heavier planet... sometimes you just want to find good news to tell your friend even when there is no good news to find, and I think there is no good news in this chart.

I really, really appreciate your clarification and your encouragement. :smile:


Thank you for sharing your thought process.

You write:
"in the second chart... yes, Mars is making an applying trine to Saturn
and then an applying trine to the Moon"
Mars does apply to trine Saturn. But Mars does not apply to trine Moon.

First of all, a slower planet like Mars by definition, cannot apply to trine a faster one like the Moon. So in this chart, Moon has long separated from its trine to Mars. Look carefully at the chart and you will see.

I am not exactly sure what you are seeing, but I do not think that Mars, Saturn, Moon relate between themselves in this chart by collection or translation of light.
Moon simply separates from Saturn.

At the same time, the process you are doing is an excellent way to learn, going in and looking closely, trying to see if groups of planets fit these special cases. I started astrology about 30 years ago, like you, before any of this sophisticated and coherent traditional astrology was translated and made available in the public domain like it is now. It takes a while to get the details down, but I think you will, based on your willingness to persist, look closely and think about what you are looking for.

So keep up the good work. It is worth it. :smile:
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Thank you for the clarification. I really appreciate you taking the time :) So much has changed since I started, and then had to stop... there's so many more complexities to think about now and to look for.

You're quite right, the moon has long since finished the trine to Mars, as Mars is the heavier planet... sometimes you just want to find good news to tell your friend even when there is no good news to find, and I think there is no good news in this chart.

I really, really appreciate your clarification and your encouragement. :smile:


You are quite welcome; I enjoyed the process as well.

Yes, there appears to be no good news in the chart.
Luckily a moment in life is so much richer than we can know. Hopefully your friend may rest in the infinite possibility inherent in simply not knowing.
Wishing both you and your friend well.
 
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