Angsty Teen?

HarmonE

Well-known member
Im curious if someone would have a look at my ex's daughter's chart whom I felt concerned about throughout our relationship. She was going through the tweeny years and now is entering teenage years which is often a troubling time. However there is an extra sense of something that I couldn't put my finger on exactly. At times I wondered if she might be sociopathic, as she didn't seem to understand others or have an ability to empathize. She has a grim fascination with horror films and true crime even when she was only 10 years old. She has already had an eating disorder, was cutting herself for a couple of years at age 12, has been experimenting with drugs and alcohol since that time and has also been sexually active for the past year. When I did finally look at her chart a little while ago it shocked me just by the sheer number of oppositions. It feels to me a difficult life full of upset, turmoil and potentially violence. I would of course like to believe that I am over-reacting, and her demeanour that I experienced was a part of what many teens go through. What are your thoughts?
 

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dowhanawi

Well-known member
What stands out for me us Gemini in 4th isn't the greatest mom figures. This would cause issues for a child. Maybe lots of tension between mom and dad (4&10) isn't helping. But teens are angsty. They try things we don't want them too. They get depressed they are figuring out who they are. Early sexual activity is sadly growing and I think us to fault with parents who allow boyfriends and girlfriends to sleep over and practically move in. In my day we had to sneak around for the occasional sex in high school. And if there are mom & or mom/dad issues that will be worsened by this behavior. Teens are not ready emotionally for this kind if relationship. I have 4 teens, I see a lit of their friends permitted to have these relationships and all have the emotional issues you describe (cuz its to much for them). So: maybe in her chart. Nothing screams addict though (a plus). But mostly, she needs her parents to insist she be a teen and not a young adult.
 

haidee

Well-known member
That sounds very dark. I'll let you know what I think (although I'm not an astrologer or very experienced).

My guess is there might be a lot of tension and problems with her relationships to her parents. (4th house + 10th house) Authority problems with mars and pluto conjunct the Midheaven along with chiron plus the inhabitation of her emotions; Saturn conjunct Moon - associating emotions with negative experiences.

Mars/Pluto conjunction often calls for a dare-devil as well, along with the Saturn/Moon conjunction it makes sense that she'd go to extremes. The Moon/Pluto opposition also calls for emotional blockages and a negative attitude towards "personal intrusion".

The 4th house North Node pretty much says the same; that she thinks she's here to be in 'charge', but it will only have her feel more frustrated. She needs to addess her emotional problems, and learn to nurture others.

That's my guess... I hope she'll get better.
 

HarmonE

Well-known member
That sounds very dark. I'll let you know what I think (although I'm not an astrologer or very experienced).

My guess is there might be a lot of tension and problems with her relationships to her parents. (4th house + 10th house) Authority problems with mars and pluto conjunct the Midheaven along with chiron plus the inhabitation of her emotions; Saturn conjunct Moon - associating emotions with negative experiences.

Mars/Pluto conjunction often calls for a dare-devil as well, along with the Saturn/Moon conjunction it makes sense that she'd go to extremes. The Moon/Pluto opposition also calls for emotional blockages and a negative attitude towards "personal intrusion".

The 4th house North Node pretty much says the same; that she thinks she's here to be in 'charge', but it will only have her feel more frustrated. She needs to addess her emotional problems, and learn to nurture others.

That's my guess... I hope she'll get better.

Yes, that is all pretty spot on. She hasnt even met her father, and life with her mother has been lacking in quality nurturing. Her mother also has mars opposite moon, but in opposite signs (moon in sag and mars in gemini).

I think dare devil does describe the girl quite well. In fact, and again I know it is common with youth, she doesn't seem to understand consequences at all. She can't even fake caring about authority. She doesn't think rules apply to her. Her mom tries to 'ground' her but she is too smart and just finds more devious ways to side step the system. I guess that's all that Gemini energy!

I would also agree that pinnacle for this child is to learn to deal with her emotions in a positive manner. She has put holes in the wall of her room with her fist and that is just the beginning. The trouble is that her mother also has difficulty with extreme emotions so isnt well equipped to deal with it. I managed to get out of it by leaving but for the daughter, she will have to figure it out on her own while still living at home for at least a few more years.
 

dowhanawi

Well-known member
The Gemini in 4, represents her mom and home life in this situation, not Gemini traits in the child. Raising a teen takes a lot if work. Her mom isn't putting in the work and this is the result. At some point a child decides to be a result of their upbringing on their own. Hopefully she chooses a different way, this will take effort from the child. I don't know that this child will. She is likely very sensitive given her sun and ac. Bit of fight in her on her MC, so she might. Chiron and mars are there. Chiron often speaks of hurt and wounds but also wisdom and healing. It will be up to the child to do it on her own (poor thing).
 

HarmonE

Well-known member
The Gemini in 4, represents her mom and home life in this situation, not Gemini traits in the child. Raising a teen takes a lot if work. Her mom isn't putting in the work and this is the result. At some point a child decides to be a result of their upbringing on their own. Hopefully she chooses a different way, this will take effort from the child. I don't know that this child will. She is likely very sensitive given her sun and ac. Bit of fight in her on her MC, so she might. Chiron and mars are there. Chiron often speaks of hurt and wounds but also wisdom and healing. It will be up to the child to do it on her own (poor thing).

Thank you dowhanawi for your insight and help. I am wondering why Gemini in the 4th is such a hard placement. I'm guessing that the restless diversity of a mercury led sign would bring about an insecure environment for a child. I am also guessing that it would bring an unsympathetic(cerebral) and self motivated approach to how she was mothered. What is it you see?

And to bring up your earlier post about addiction, where is it you look to see about the addiction? I found her to have an addictive approach to food and felt concerned that might translate to addictions to other things down the road. Im glad that you feel that she wont be subject to that.
 

rahu

Banned
At times I wondered if she might be sociopathic, as she didn't seem to understand others or have an ability to empathize. She has a grim fascination with horror films and true crime even when she was only 10 years old. She has already had an eating disorder, was cutting herself for a couple of years at age 12

these are clear indication of a abusive, mostly sexual abusive childhood.
with a mercury/sun/Jupiter conjunction this child's spirit is very good, so the treatment she has received has to be very destructive for her to be that way you describe.
her nessus is square to eris, which is a sexually abusive aspect and with mars conjuct pluto /chrion midpoint brother would be the logical suspect, though boyfriends of the mother are also indicated. the venus/eros midpoint conjunct the moon and opposed pluto also placing the mother at the source of risk and also show alynne has a sexual nature that leads to dark and abusive guys.
Neptune is conjunct to lilth which could show a very inspiration and spiritual personality ,especially with the Jupiter/sun/mercury stellium but obviously she has been abused out of these positive feelings and ideals.as it is neptunes position makes her very susceptible to drug addiction and alcohol abuse.
the Saturn/pluto midpoint is conjunct her ascendant, another indication of sexual abuse by an older man , possibly an authority figure as jupiter is opposed to chiron.are her grandparents involved? though if they are I am not sure that would be a plus because the placement of juno and Jupiter indicates sexual abuse is endemic to her family

rahu
 
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HarmonE

Well-known member
Thanks Rahu. Im a new student of astrology so it might be some time before I can truly digest all that you say about the extra planets/asteroids.

I can't say if the girl has been sexually abused. When she was self harming, her mother tried to get her to open up but it went nowhere. She even tried a couple of counsellors but again nothing. I suspect you are right though. She has no grandparents from her Dad's side as she has no contact with that family. And there is no grandfather on her mom's side as there was no father figure there either. History repeats itself. She does have a good relationship with her maternal grandmother as far as I know.

It could have been a boyfriend that the mother was dating in the early years. When you say brother, a thought came to mind. She has no brothers but she has an uncle who is around 2 years older as her grandmother had children for 20+ years. I suppose there could be something there as they grew up together almost as siblings and she has said that she is scared of him, saying he hit her when she was young.

Her mother I know was sexually abused on multiple occasions at a young age though she brushes off and wont talk about it.
 

craft94

Well-known member
Isn't Gemini the moons "detriment"? I feel like this placement (combined with the moon-pluto opposition) could indicate a chaotic and unstable upbringing. Gemini is known for being flighty. Maybe she was raised with inconsistent morals (Sagittarius) and didn't really learn a clear sense of right or wrong.
The opposition from Pluto also shows a family life full of power struggles and secrets. The Sun in Cancer shows her family life is very important.
The Pisces rising can be very impressionable and she might easily be persuaded into doing drugs if she hangs with the "wrong crowd" or if she was raised to see that behavior as normal.

Chiron conjunct the Midheaven makes these problems obvious to others. Chiron is wounding and healing. The good side of this is if she manages to get herself well, she can become a healing impetus for others. Sagittarius can be very "inspirational."
 
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dowhanawi

Well-known member
Thank you dowhanawi for your insight and help. I am wondering why Gemini in the 4th is such a hard placement. I'm guessing that the restless diversity of a mercury led sign would bring about an insecure environment for a child. I am also guessing that it would bring an unsympathetic(cerebral) and self motivated approach to how she was mothered. What is it you see?

And to bring up your earlier post about addiction, where is it you look to see about the addiction? I found her to have an addictive approach to food and felt concerned that might translate to addictions to other things down the road. Im glad that you feel that she wont be subject to that.

The 4 in Gemini is a mom who is flighty there for the child when it suits the mom, but the mom puts herself first, most if the time. The child experiences the duality. The child is important, then not important. And the mom won't raise the child from her heart.

Neptune's worst placement is on the ac, certain aspects to the ac. This Neptune has no aspects to the ac. It is in 12, things hidden. She might look for escape from the things she keeps secret from others (like her pain). But not necessarily through drugs. Eating is likely an emotional comfort, given her life, that's no surprise. Experimenting with drugs isn't unusual in this stage of life, especially amoungst unhappy teens, but it doesn't mean a life if addiction. My oldest son experimented, it became so horrible I kicked him out (pills and stuff + he became violent). He had no indication of addiction in his chart and now just smokes pot and is heading off to university so I can live with the pot use. I experimented as a teen also, hit 20, left it far behind me and am now so straight laced I don't even drink (once every few years I have one with an old friend when she visits). If you speak with the maternal grandma, maybe she would be willing to be more involved, let the child stay with her lots. That could help. Having a grandma insist on rules might make her buck at first, but in the end it makes teens feel safe and cared about.
 

rahu

Banned
Thanks Rahu. Im a new student of astrology so it might be some time before I can truly digest all that you say about the extra planets/asteroids.

I can't say if the girl has been sexually abused. When she was self harming, her mother tried to get her to open up but it went nowhere. She even tried a couple of counsellors but again nothing. I suspect you are right though. She has no grandparents from her Dad's side as she has no contact with that family. And there is no grandfather on her mom's side as there was no father figure there either. History repeats itself. She does have a good relationship with her maternal grandmother as far as I know.

It could have been a boyfriend that the mother was dating in the early years. When you say brother, a thought came to mind. She has no brothers but she has an uncle who is around 2 years older as her grandmother had children for 20+ years. I suppose there could be something there as they grew up together almost as siblings and she has said that she is scared of him, saying he hit her when she was young.

Her mother I know was sexually abused on multiple occasions at a young age though she brushes off and wont talk about it.


as i first posted the symptom of cutting are closely correlated with sexual abuse and other feed back you have given:

.When she was self harming, her mother tried to get her to open up but it went nowhere. She even tried a couple of counsellors but again nothing

they grew up together almost as siblings and she has said that she is scared of him, saying he hit her when she was young.


Her mother I know was sexually abused on multiple occasions at a young age though she brushes off and wont talk about it

is also frequebtly encounter environmental influences of sexual abuse.

not opening up to counselors is a sign that when she was brought up in a abuser home, no one belived her. and as her mother brushes off her abuse, this shows the mother brushed off alynnes story of abuse. being fearful of the abuser is a common reaction and hitting is often a cover for sexual abuse.

as I first felt, sexual abuse runs through the family is the family is in denial, so alynne has not other choice but to act out these destructive behaviors I na vin attempt for someone to see her predicament.
with the sun/Jupiter/mercury conjunction alynne has a spirit of truth is spite of other challenging aspects, and I can't see evil or lies in her, other tht reactions to the dark environment she is subject to.

rahu
 
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dowhanawi

Well-known member
I'm with Rahu that this is a good kid with a tragic life. Notice that Libra and Aries are incepted within the first & seventh houses (self & relationships)? This kid needs action and justice, even if its just emotionally. She needs someone on her side who cares, who listens and believes, teaches her to take action.
 

HarmonE

Well-known member
Thanks to you all for seeing the positive and outlining some ways to view this that encourages healing. I think she is a vibrant girl too, full of many gifts that were more apparent before the angst set in. I don't know exactly know how to proceed with this as I don't really see her any more and rarely talk to her mother. I don't think she will talk to her mom about what is troubling her, they have a tenuous relationship. It definitely is tricky. And she won't do anything she doesn't want to do. We tried to get her to go to numerous different peer groups or classes to get her doing something more wholesome. She won't. Tried 'Big Sisters Little Sisters" too but she just doesn't want anything to do with it.

I never had kids. That's my 5th house saturn I guess. But taking care of and being a part of my partners kids lives over the past few years really made me see how heart wrenching it can be. I couldn't imagine how hard it would be if it were my own flesh and blood.
 

HarmonE

Well-known member
No, that would be too odd and not probably going to help her much. I don't think I will be able to break through to her now any more than I could when I was around the family. I sent a message to her Mom yesterday to see if she would rethink things and see if she would talk to me about it but there has been no answer. That might mean that she has read it and taken it in but is just not responding. Or it might mean that she thinks its none of my business and has totally rejected it. I don't know. :sad:
 
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