An Introduction to Planetary Dignity and Debility

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Nadineday said:
And I must have gotten confused about triplicities, my understanding was the determining factor is if one's birth time was day or night and then this was proceeded by looking to sun/day or moon/night. This is where I may have gotten confused, once deciding on Moon/Sun, I then looked to the occupying sign, and then to the planet triplicities assigned to sign/day or night. And this is where I began to see where dignities or detriment may pursue. Am I completely off base..

Off base a little bit, yes.

You started out right, it's important to note if the chart is diurnal or nocturnal, because that's going to tell you which of the planets is in charge of that triplicity at that time.

However, going to the sect light and identifying its triplicity lords is a specific technique related to quality of life and eminence of an individual. It doesn't really have to do with the assignment of the dignity itself.

So, if you're doing this technique with a chart of an individual who was born at night, you'd look to their Moon, let's say their Moon is in a Fire Sign, so then you'd look at Jupiter (night ruler of Fire) and see what he's all about, then you'd look to the Sun (day ruler of Fire), and when you were finished with him you'd look to Saturn (who participates and always goes third).

Hope that makes sense.
 

Nadineday

Well-known member
What I understand about essential dignitaries is rulership based, for instance the significance of a ruling planet which start with the ASC which is the ruling planet over the whole chart following on down to each contributing sign, house and planet. For instance My ruling planet is Mercury which is in Libra. Now I will look to Libra and it's ruling planet which is Venus. This procession continues throughout the chart.
So I have a basic understanding of the essential dignitaries and the Synastry involved.
While attempting to further my knowledge I was practicing with my own chart and came across this question, regarding Triciplities rulership.
I have a Nocturnal chart. My Moon is Taurus, Venus/Scorpio, Mars/Scorpio. and what happened is the dignitaries and debilities within, naturally followed the nocturnal sect without me noticing or applying the set formula.

For instance, if the Moon was in Aries one would look to Jupiter in the Triciplities rulership sects regardless of the attributing placement whether it be dignified or debilitated is irrelevant. So my question is, does one look to the sign dispositor or the next ruler in the nocturnal/diurnal sects. Such as Moon Aries would be ruled by Jupiter, not mars, so then the next action would be to look to the secondary ruler which is Sun followed by Saturn. So I think I answered my own query but in my case all the planets lead one into the other naturally how would this be applied if the Triplicities were debilitating through the succession of the planets.
I apologize for my incongruent thoughts I am not sure how to ask my question. Maybe I will be able to clarify over time. It does not help that I am also over complicating the matter to an extremes. I see many avenues and welcome insight from seasoned Astrologers..
 
Last edited:

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Hi Nadineday,

It looks like you're trying to craft a dispositor tree, but with triplicities, which isn't really anything I've ever heard of before, and dispositor trees as a whole are pretty iffy, modern inventions.

I'll do my best to unpack your questions!

What I understand about essential dignitaries is rulership based, for instance the significance of a ruling planet which start with the ASC which is the ruling planet over the whole chart following on down to each contributing sign, house and planet. For instance My ruling planet is Mercury which is in Libra. Now I will look to Libra and it's ruling planet which is Venus. This procession continues throughout the chart.

Yeah, this is the beginning of a dispositor tree.

The whole system of essential dignities is about much more than seeing whose domicile another planet is in, it's a large five point system including domiciles, exaltations, triplicities, terms, and faces. Sorry for condescending to you if you already knew that!!

For instance, if the Moon was in Aries one would look to Jupiter in the Triciplities rulership sects regardless of the attributing placement whether it be dignified or debilitated is irrelevant. So my question is, does one look to the sign dispositor or the next ruler in the nocturnal/diurnal sects. Such as Moon Aries would be ruled by Jupiter, not mars, so then the next action would be to look to the secondary ruler which is Sun followed by Saturn. So I think I answered my own query but in my case all the planets lead one into the other naturally how would this be applied if the Triplicities were debilitating through the succession of the planets.

No, you'd really only follow the triplicity rulers around if you're trying to do the quality of life/eminence technique that I mentioned above. For someone who has the Moon in Aries, her domicile lord would be Mars, her exaltation lord would be the Sun, her triplicity lord would be Jupiter (if it's night) or the Sun (if its day), and then the Term and Face lords would depend on the specific degree.

I apologize for my incongruent thoughts I am not sure how to ask my question. Maybe I will be able to clarify over time.

I'm sure you'll figure out where you're getting hung up!
 

Nadineday

Well-known member
Thank you, No you do not come off as condescending in any fashion. I appreciate directness and try not to infer anything.. I am somewhat familiar with essential dignities and I find it paramount for natal/psychology astrology which is where my main focus has been. However I want to deepen my skill and knowledge for it is still rather amateur.
The dispositor tree theory sounds like it would interest my style and spark new ideas.
My goals are to become more adept in Astrology and write on it along with my other ongoing studies. I am formulating plans.
And for some reason I just keep writing no matter how off topic :biggrin: in fact my first reply to this forum was impossibly lengthy and rattling. I had to shorten it up.. :whistling:
Hope all is well.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
 

pharvey0829

Active member
Receptions! Receptions! Receptions!

Look at the dignities of the luminaries, and see if any of those planets are also in the dignities of the Sun and the Moon. If you find that either of the luminaries are in beneficial reception, mixed or mutual, with another planet, and if this planet has dignity, then this describes the influence that can pull the detrimented planet out of it's unfortunate position.

There are few charts in which a badly debilitated planet has no other strength to draw upon from elsewhere in the chart via the web of receptions.

Receptions are completely ignored in most astrology today, and astrology is so very much the poorer because of it, but it doesn't need to be.

In fact, a debilitated planet does not have to be in actual reception to derive benefit from another planet, it's just better if the planet to which the detrimented planet appeals takes some interest in it's plight.

For example, I have a peregrine Mercury in Libra, but fortunately, it isn't all so bad for Mercury, as Mercury exalts Saturn, and Saturn is also in Libra and is in Mercury's term, so Saturn takes a bit of interest in Mercury's situation, and so is inclined to respond to Mercury's appeal for help via the mixed reception. Saturn is able to help Mercury even more in that he is the Lord of the Geniture. So when my troublesome Mercury causes me to go askew in life, I know that I can draw upon my powerful Saturnian qualities, to kick Mercury's **** into gear. To derive benefit via receptions in this way however, usually requires will and concious application, if the two planets are in aspect however, the exchange is more automatic.

Astrobhadauria,



What does this mean? I am a Mars in Scorpio native.



True.



I disagree. You have just said yourself that a peregrine planet is a planet that does not have any essential dignities in it's placement, but this is certainly not equal to a planet that is as essentially undignified as it can possibly be.

A planet in it's peregrine state, it has been said, given the opportunity, tends towards malice. This is a far cry from being in detriment, or being comparable to detriment.

Lilly equates peregrination with detriment in that he gives each a numerical value of -5, but then, what is the point in making a distinction between the two debilities? I would agree with Frawley, who gives peregrination a value of -3, which makes more sense, because then we have a sliding scale of essential debility, detriment -5, fall -4 and peregrine -3.

Looking at it like this, peregrine is about as bad as triplicity is good.

Personally, I do wonder why, that if peregrination means 'no dignity', why it is not given a value of '0'.

Antikythera

The word 'peregrine', originates from the Latin 'pereger', meaning 'beyong the borders', and 'ager' meaning, 'land'. So a peregrine planet is literally a wanderer in an unfamiliar environment, outside of it's natural territory, and cannot relate to the position it is in.

A peregrine planet having no dignities of it's own, is strongly influenced by those planets with which it is configured, by aspect or reception. The lack of dignity of the peregrine state can be alleviated somewhat by accidental dignity, or by aspect or reception, preferably both, with a more essentially fortified planet.

I would tend to agree that a peregrine planet is less debilitated than a planet in fall or detriment. I would tend to agree that peregrine should only receive a -3 score.
 

BlueAngel

Member
Well, I've been reading on this for over a week and trying to understand it. I'm still in a bit of a conundrum. There's plenty more to figure out. I have lots of questions.

I have the following:
Saturn in Libra - exalted - in the 12th house - Does the placement cancel the exaltation?
Jupiter in Libra - peregrine - in the 12th house - Does this exalt it?

Pluto in Libra - in Fall - in the 12th house - Is this Double Debility
Sun in Libra - in Fall - in the 12th house
Mercury in Libra Retro - peregrine - in the 12th house - Is this debilitated b/c of the house? Does the Retro mean it's debilitated as well? I read that somewhere

These are all square my Moon which is in detriment in Capricorn in the 3rd house. Yikes! Getting worse :(

Lastly, I have Venus in Scorpio - detriment - at the same degree as Uranus in Scorpio (exalted) in 1st house

So does this mean that Saturn or Jupiter is leading my stellium? Which energies would I use to direct all my confused & debilitated planets?

How would Uranus help Venus in this situation? For example, I honestly have difficulty with this energy. It seems like I am always wanting to bolt in my relationships when things get difficult. It is definitely not helping so far.

Thanks for any input!
 

Attachments

  • BlueAngel Birth.pdf
    183.8 KB · Views: 18

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Hey BlueAngel,

Let me go through your questions...

1. Saturn is in Libra so is exalted no matter what. He may be cadent but he traditonally joys in the 12th so he benefits from being here. He is also in a diurnal sign in a diurnal chart, above the horizon and is Triplicity ruler of Air by day. So this a Saturn that will do you good. He is also the malefic of the sect (day chart) so he would be less of nuisance to you than would be the case if you born at night.

2. Depending on who you ask, Jupiter is not peregrine in your chart. This is because he is participating Triplicity ruler of air so his placement in Aquarius, Libra and Gemini (his detriment) would lend him some essential dignity. His placement in the 12th will not exalt him but he is in a diurnal planet in a diurnal sign so he gets a plus for that. He is also in a sign of a sect mate (Saturn exaltation) which is seen as a good thing. He is the benefic of the sect so he is the one who would look to to provide most of the benevolence.


3. Sun is in his fall and in the cadent 12th - start. He however is configured to An exalted Saturn and if you read in the previous pages of this thread, a debilitated planet will be "uplifted" so to speak if conjunct an exalted planet (best) or domicile planet (good). Bare in mind that he is in a masculine sign and also with his sect mates in a diurnal chart. This is a Sun who has a lot of help.

4. I don't subscribe to the view that the outers have any dignities/debilities. Pluto is cadent in the 12th though so is accidentally debilitated.

5. The chart you have up shows a Mercury in Scorpio. He is an evening star (rises after the sun) so is classified as nocturnal. Hence, he is out of sect. Add to that he is retrograde so not looking so hot. He is in a feminine sign and in the sign of his sect mate (Mars is a nocturnal planet) so that shifts the balance toward some positivity. He is also angular (conjunct the ascendant by 3 degrees) so will make his presence felt in your life. 1st house has to do with your personality so I expect you to have some mercurial traits (some of the troublesome ones too seeing Mercury's state).

6. The way you behave in relationships does have something to do with Venus' state, imo. She is out of sect, in her detriment and rules the 7th house so will definitely have a bearing on how that area of life pans out. She does have some positives though as she is in a feminine sign (Scorpio), in the sign of a sect mate (Mars), in the nocturnal hemisphere of the chart (below the horizon in the day) as well as occidental to the sun (rising after the sun) which she prefers. She is also the Triplicity ruler of water by day going by the dorothean triplicities so she is qualitatively very mixed in her dignities. Throw in her angularity and her naturally benefic status and I don't see her as a bad girl at all in your chart. The detriment will make itself known though.

What may be the actual culprit is not only the partile conjunction from Uranus who is the modern planet of instability and sudden changes but also Mars right up there on the MC.

He is the out of sect Malefic so will be more troublesome in the daytime. He is none of dignities or debilities so is peregrine. He is angular and oriental to the Sun so is powerful for good or ill. He squares your Venus from the 10th sign from Scorpio (dominating square) so will be the "stronger" in the relationship. As the traditional ruler of instability, severance, and divorce his aspect to Venus will cause his cutting nature to affect Venus things and the areas she rules in your chart. Venus as the general significator of relationships as well as ruler of the 7th paints a clear picture. Mercury who also has a destabilizing influence plays an important role in your situation too.

Shows that you have the ability to break of relationships quite easy, maybe too easy and the fixed signs show that it is because you don't want to compromise. If you are to have a successful relationship you will have to go through all that difficulty and shitty times, perhaps you'll be willing to do that when you find someone that's worth it.
 

BlueAngel

Member
First, thank you so much for such a thorough answer! This has been very helpful! I guess I thought of my Mars in Leo as a good motivator in my chart; I didn't realize that he was such a culprit in my relationships. Guess the square to Venus should have caught my eye :wink:

So this a Saturn that will do you good. He is also the malefic of the sect (day chart) so he would be less of nuisance to you than would be the case if you born at night.

What do you mean by malefic in this instance? How can he be a "bad" influence if he is exalted/doing me good?

He is also angular (conjunct the ascendant by 3 degrees) so will make his presence felt in your life. 1st house has to do with your personality so I expect you to have some mercurial traits (some of the troublesome ones too seeing Mercury's state).

How might he make his presence known? So far, I've just had to deal with being a chatterbox, racing thoughts, insomnia which I've associated with mercury of late. AKA ADD/ADHD symptoms.

Thanks so much again!
BlueAngel
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
No problem. He (Saturn) is regarded as the greater malefic so I'm really referring to him by his "title". However, that doesn't mean he will be malefic all the time in every chart out there. Yours for example is a case of "good" Saturn.

All those things you listed is some of the ways Merc has manifested in your
Life. Would you say that these traits hamper your life in some ways?
Would you also describe yourself as argumentative? Mars also squares your Mercury by sign, so I'm curious.
 

BlueAngel

Member
No problem. He (Saturn) is regarded as the greater malefic so I'm really referring to him by his "title". However, that doesn't mean he will be malefic all the time in every chart out there. Yours for example is a case of "good" Saturn.

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up :) I'll have to do some more reading on "him."


All those things you listed is some of the ways Merc has manifested in your Life.
Would you say that these traits hamper your life in some ways?
Would you also describe yourself as argumentative? Mars also squares your Mercury by sign, so I'm curious.
The greatest issue I have with my 12th house stellium in general is being misunderstood. Having Mercury retro in Scorpio means I need a lot of introspective time to wade through my "emotions" so that I can communicate thoroughly. It's not that I am not a good communicator; I'm actually very good once I begin speaking. The problem lies with the amount of energy/time I need to invest to know my own mind so to speak.

I do have a knee jerk habit of interrupting/having a wandering mind as well that I have been trying to conquer for years. That can get really embarrassing but it's not that hampering. It challenges me to be a better listener.

The Mars/Mercury combo mainly gives me a great deal of energy (sometimes restless) and it lends a creative/theatrical flair when I'm telling a story. I can be very animated in a group. I used to be a drama nerd and I was on the debate team. But I HATE conflict so arguing is really not a problem for me. I'll bicker or pull devil's advocate for fun regularly; this can get irritating for others depending on the person. I have a great deal of Libran & Piscean influence in my chart that tempers the more abrasive qualities of the combo. I am rarely without tact, kindness or patience. Once my patience has run out however, I do have a hot temper - my Scorpio/Leo qualities definitely surface then. I rarely get that angry so it is always a surprise even to me ;)
 
Last edited:

Purple9

Well-known member
I am still confused about peregrine planets. She is peregrine if in the sign where she is there is no area where she rules/is dignified (or debilitated)/has term or face OR she simply does not touch any point she rules/has term or face? I assumed the latter. In this case in my mother's chart for example ALL her planets are peregrine and that can't be right??
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am still confused about peregrine planets. She is peregrine if in the sign where she is there is no area where she rules/is dignified (or debilitated)/has term or face OR she simply does not touch any point she rules/has term or face? I assumed the latter. In this case in my mother's chart for example ALL her planets are peregrine and that can't be right??
It is not unusual for all natal planets to have peregrine status :smile:
UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY & DEBILITY
informative article at
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html
 
Top