Age of Aquarius May Not Be So Great

[david starling]

My thinking, as stated in numerous other places, is that the big transition will be on the Capricorn/Aquarius cusp.

This ^ is the one part of the OP's first post that attracted me to this thread, along with a lot of good thinking on the part of other posters.

If Mark is right, (I couldn't ask him questions about it because he'd already left the Community), then I'm correct in labeling the tropical Age-changeover, from Capricorn to Aquarius "The Great Transition". Whereas the sidereal changeover is of lesser importance, at least according to Mark's way of thinking.

I notice that the dedicated siderealists are rather blase about their own upcoming Aquarian Age, from sidereal Pisces to sidereal Aquarius, if they even mention it at all.

It's the tropicalists who are fascinated, not with a Piscean Age, but with the concept of an Aquarian Age. With some, like Karl Jung, intuitively sensing that a HUGE change in human consciousness is in the offing, when it comes to the Age of Aquarius. That's my intuitive sense as well. I, for one, just NEEDED to know the actual astronomy involved in the purely tropical Age-transition process, which is separate from the sidereal method being used (although they are closely related). Why just me? Hellifino! Gotta be something in my tropical chart. Could be others, just as reclusive as I am.

 

[piercethevale]

For me, I wonder if the planets are relevant to the quality of a given age? Or rather are the stars of the ruling constellation of the age those causes which give the quality and tone to how the age plays out? I do not know the answer to that question, but lean somewhat to the stars giving the quality of influence, rather than the planets.

I think the emanation of the Signs is directed through our own Sun somehow, relative to the central Sun, r.e. the Yugas of Vedic lore. The planets are possibly the conductors of that energy, the Sun being the receiver.

I need to address what I wrote above in reply, not to come to a stated conclusion but rather to add to these thoughts presented above with what the late Rabbi Dobin had written in his book, "Kabbalistic Astrology". As this thread is one based in conjecture and not an analysis for a member of the forum, that is, rather a presentation of many different schools of thinking as well as those of the participants in this thread, I'm going to assume that it will be okay with the admin. to exceed the hundred word limit on posting copyrighted material and it is okay by international copyright laws as this is entirely for educational purposes.

Chapter 6 of the Rabbi's book "The Testimony Of The Constellation", is a chapter that begins with the authors criticism of the widely popular belief in "Sun Sign Astrology". He wrote... "To my astrological ancestors, the constellations presented the constant forces in the universe for our use, and the planets represented the changing forces in the universe. The forces of the constellations could be pictured in physical terms as the carrier wave, which as modulated by the play of planetary forces and aspects, presenting their influence to the waiting world."
He then went on to write some more criticism of modern popular Sun Sign Astrology concluding that paragraph with the following words. "How did our ancestors in Astrology view the constant forces of the constellations?"

He then answered his own question. He wrote that they "viewed each constellation as having the following constant forces operating within it: Triplicity [Fire, Earth, Air, or Water]; Spiritual Rulership [a son of Jacob]; Planetary Rulership [for example, Sun rules Leo, Moon rules Cancer]; Gender [Masculine or Feminine]; Solar and Lunar [east of the Sun and west of the Moon]; Decante [Lords of each 10°]; Planetary Limits [4 to 8° arcs in each constellation, ruled by each of the five planets]; Novenas [3-1/3° equal arcs ruled by the five planets and the Two Lights: Sun and Moon]; Duods, or Duodecads [2-1/2° arcs ruled by the planets and Lights according to their order in the zodiacal rulerships].

He goes on to write that all of that knowledge came from constant documented observations yet modern Sun Sign Astrology doesn't even give consideration to most of those. He says that while the constant forces of the constellations do manifest themselves unchangeably in the physical and health characteristics of the Sun Sign of a person as those are "physical constancies which have little ability to change, whereas variable forces will easily affect those areas of life, the psychological, the social, the ethical, and the material dimensions, which are themselves very amenable to change in human life."

"The variable forces which modified the constant forces of the constellations depended on: the planet which transited the constellation; the aspects made to that planet by other planets and the Ascendant and Midhaven as well as other sensitive points in the constellation itself, such as the Well of Stars [certain degrees within each constellation in which the effects of certain nonzodiacal constellations "drown out" the effects of transiting planets]; Degrees of Honor [certain degrees within each constellation which are occupied by certain nonzodiacal constellations that enhance the positive qualities of the transiting planets]; certain degrees in each constellation which represent the exact points in which the Dignities and Debilities of specific planets are most strongly shown [exact degrees of planetary rulerships or exaltations, detriments or falls according to the well known system of these forces]; the degrees in the various constellations of the Aphelions and Perihelions, and the North and South Nodes of each planet." [all Italics are the authors']

The Rabbi then points out that it would be an exhaustive book of its own to cover explicitly all those constant and variable points in each constellation.
Then Rabbi Dobin wrote the following. "However, I shall explain one constellation, Leo, in the ancient manner, and then list the 'Sun Sign' dilineations of the other eleven constellations by their constants and decantes. These dilineations will most often refer, not to the 'Sun Sign' but to the Ascendant." After which the Rabbi wrote to "[see chapter 21]"

..Now, here's what I've specifically been wanting to get to... as the Rabbi Dobin went on to write...

"Before explaining the Constellation Leo, however, I am quite sure that one of my sharp-eyed readers who is familiar with Astrology will ask: Why weren't the quadraplicities mentioned [Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable Constellations]? I should have mentioned those, but I am not sure about their category: are they constant or variable forces? You see, every time a Prophetic Age changes, that is from the Age of Aries to the Age of Pisces to the coming Age of Aquarius - the quadruplicity value of the constellations change., and then remain constant for 2,150 years. During the Age of Aries, the First House Cardinal Constellation was Taurus; during the now-ending Age of Pisces, the First House Cardinal Constellation is Aries: when the Age of Aquarius arrives around 1980, the First House Cardinal Constellation will be Pisces! For dilineations sake, however, let us call the power of the quaraplicity a constant force [See Table 6.1]"

I should add that while I found the Rabbi to be an excellent scholar, and a brilliant mind, his abilities at actually casting charts was rather wanting as for example in another chapter of the book he wrote that the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction that follows the one in 1980 in Libra would be in 2001 in the Sign Aquarius, yet was in May of 2000 in Taurus and he messed up just as badly as to the conjunction of the two that followed that. Also, I recall that he cast a chart for a specific time and date in the book that I checked the accuracy of by using the same data at the astrodienst web site app. and it was rather dismal.

Yet, there are profound insights in his book. One of which is his using Kabbalistic tools of interpretation to correct what he claimed to be a standard, yet erroneous translation of Habakkuk 3:2-4.

As it has been interpreted to read as;

O Lord, I have heard the report of Thee, and am afraid;
O Lord, revive Thy work in the midst of the years,
In the midst of the years make it known; In wrath remember compassion,
God cometh from Teman, and the Holy One from Mount Paran, Selah
His glory covereth the heavens, and the earth is full of His praise.
And a brightness appeareth as the light:
Rays hath He at his side; and there is the hiding of His power.

The Rabbi then dissects the passage and explains why and how certain words in the consonantal Hebrew text were mis-interpreted, and after a couple of pages of such He presents it as.

"Oh lord, I have heard the report of Thee, and am afraid:
O Lord, Thy work has its life in the midst of the years,
It shall be known by means of the years.
God cometh from [the direction of] Capricorn-Aquarius
And the Holy One [from the direction of] Mount Paran, Selah.
And the Moon [or Venus], like the Sun, will be rays at His side,
And therein will lie the secret of His power."

Read the Sabian Symbol for the last degree of Capricorn and then the Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aquarius, to see just what I'm getting at here...!!!

I initiated a thread on this subject many years ago, it is about how I found that the Tanakh and the Sabian Symbols are mutually validating.

This revelation about that direction from between Capricorn and Aquarius also led to that thread I wrote concerning the Manichean relief of Mani bowing on a knee below a sky or seven stars to his one side and five stars to his other, a proposed solution to the application of musical tonality to the Zodiac, which stumped Issac Newton, and also a proposed solution to the application of the visible spectrum to the Zodiac. ... all which make perfect sense and mathematical symmetry just from this one revelation provided by the late Rabbi Dobin.

 

[piercethevale]

I should have added that the Rabbi wrote that is one possible translation of that verse, but not the only one. That is one if you use the accepted traditional phrasing of the Hebrew. ...and He wrote "However, if we use an alternate phrasing of the Hebrew, which is just as legitimate as the traditional phrasing, the passage makes even more sense." As He pointed out that the traditional phrasing is totally out of keeping with the normal phrasing of biblical poetry.

It gets pretty deep from then on, but it still translates as to God coming from the direction of Capricorn -Aquarius, which is all I wanted to demonstrate and what insights that alone provided me and what i was able to do with it. He laments that the people that have been translating it had no understanding of Astrology and thus either didn't look for a possible astrological interpretation and, or, missed it. There is mention of one translation saying "Thine Arrows go towards the Sun", which might refer to Sagittarius, for an example.
It is a very worthwhile book to obtain and read, difficult in some parts to understand...especially if one isn't Jewish, I suppose, or has no background in biblical studies, which I don't as to either.

 

[dr. farr]

Chapter 6 of the Rabbi's book "The Testimony Of The Constellation", is a chapter that begins with the authors criticism of the widely popular belief in "Sun Sign Astrology". He wrote... "To my astrological ancestors, the constellations presented the constant forces in the universe for our use, and the planets represented the changing forces in the universe. The forces of the constellations could be pictured in physical terms as the carrier wave, which as modulated by the play of planetary forces and aspects, presenting their influence to the waiting world."
He then went on to write some more criticism of modern popular Sun Sign Astrology concluding that paragraph with the following words. "How did our ancestors in Astrology view the constant forces of the constellations?"

He then answered his own question. He wrote that they "viewed each constellation as having the following constant forces operating within it: Triplicity [Fire, Earth, Air, or Water]; Spiritual Rulership [a son of Jacob]; Planetary Rulership [for example, Sun rules Leo, Moon rules Cancer]; Gender [Masculine or Feminine]; Solar and Lunar [east of the Sun and west of the Moon]; Decante [Lords of each 10°]; Planetary Limits [4 to 8° arcs in each constellation, ruled by each of the five planets]; Novenas [3-1/3° equal arcs ruled by the five planets and the Two Lights: Sun and Moon]; Duods, or Duodecads [2-1/2° arcs ruled by the planets and Lights according to their order in the zodiacal rulerships].



"The variable forces which modified the constant forces of the constellations depended on: the planet which transited the constellation; the aspects made to that planet by other planets and the Ascendant and Midhaven as well as other sensitive points in the constellation itself, such as the Well of Stars [certain degrees within each constellation in which the effects of certain nonzodiacal constellations "drown out" the effects of transiting planets]; Degrees of Honor [certain degrees within each constellation which are occupied by certain nonzodiacal constellations that enhance the positive qualities of the transiting planets]; certain degrees in each constellation which represent the exact points in which the Dignities and Debilities of specific planets are most strongly shown [exact degrees of planetary rulerships or exaltations, detriments or falls according to the well known system of these forces]; the degrees in the various constellations of the Aphelions and Perihelions, and the North and South Nodes of each planet." [all Italics are the authors']


From my own studies and experiences I certainly go along with these concepts.

 

[piercethevale]

It also addresses your interest in what Mark was referring to about Cap. and Aquar., David.
It may be a clue, anyways?

 

[piercethevale]

The Sabian Symbol for the last degree of Capricorn [as the Rabbi translated Habakkuk 3:2-4 to read as "God cometh {from the direction of} Capricorn-Aquarius."], i.e. the 30th degree of Capricorn, from Dane Rudhyar's book on the 360 Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala".

"CAPRICORN 30°: A SECRET MEETING OF MEN RESPONSIBLE FOR EXECUTIVE DECISIONS IN WORLD AFFAIRS.

KEYNOTE: The power to assume responsibility for crucial choices arrived at after mature discussions with those who share this power.

We are all aware now of the work of secret committees in the White House and at all levels of the government. The student of esoteric philosophy believes in the existence of what has been called an 'inner Government' which has the power to direct or guide the evolution of our planet and of mankind. Some people speak of 'occult Hierarchy', or of the 'White Lodge'. Here again what is at stake is a 'seeing through' the facts of telluric processes and human history — assuming that these facts are at least in part the outcome of the decisions of a supreme Council of quasi-divine Beings. Obviously the symbol can also refer to what occurs at the more ordinary level of business and politics. At any level, it refers to the highest form of social interaction.

This is the last symbol belonging to Scene Twenty and related to the zodiacal sign Capricorn. We see in it the culmination of social responsibility and a reference to EXECUTIVE POWER."


... sounds to me as much as like a description of the "Godhead" as anything I've read in the Vedas...

The Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aquarius, [ibid.]

"AQUARIUS 1°: AN OLD ADOBE MISSION IN CALIFORNIA.

KEYNOTE: The power inherent in all great human works to endure far beyond the workers' life spans.

The works and spirit of the Spanish priests who directed the building of the California missions have had a lasting influence on the development of this land; these remain as a monument to the men who were able to make their mark upon this alien environment. While the zodiacal sign Capricorn begins with a symbol of socio-political power, Aquarius at its start presents a more spiritualized and idealistic or creative picture of the social forces at work. Moreover, it stresses the enduring character of human achievements ensouled by a great vision. At least within the frame of reference of our Western civilization, the symbol speaks of the projection of a noble ideal into concrete forms of beauty and significance, thus of the radiation of a 'civilizing' power into an institution offering to primitive men the opportunity to reach a higher, more organized and productive, level of activity.

This is the first stage in the sixty-first five-fold sequence. It speaks to us of THE CONCRETIZATION OF AN IDEAL. This also implies the 'immortalization' of an individual within a great collective and cultural enterprise."

I point to Rudhyar's "Keyord" "THE CONCRETIZATION OF AN IDEAL"... the manifesting of a thought, an idea, into the material realm, giving it substance, making it a reality. "Let There Be Light", "May it Be Mote", "OM TAT SAT OM"

Thus the Last Degree of Cap. and the first degree of Aquar. ... right there you have the Book of Genesis.

 

[piercethevale]

As to what I wrote above about that sounding as much as like the Godhead as anything I've read in the Vedas, it also applies to many of the Gnostic, as well... although I'm still learning about Gnostic beliefs, of which there are many...as I wrote above, by my count there have been as many as 95 different sects of Gnostic faith in the world, in total, that are known of.

 

[david starling]

The Sabian Symbol for the last degree of Capricorn [as the Rabbi translated Habakkuk 3:2-4 to read as "God cometh {from the direction of} Capricorn-Aquarius."], i.e. the 30th degree of Capricorn, from Dane Rudhyar's book on the 360 Sabian Symbols, "An Astrological Mandala".

"CAPRICORN 30°: A SECRET MEETING OF MEN RESPONSIBLE FOR EXECUTIVE DECISIONS IN WORLD AFFAIRS.

KEYNOTE: The power to assume responsibility for crucial choices arrived at after mature discussions with those who share this power.

We are all aware now of the work of secret committees in the White House and at all levels of the government. The student of esoteric philosophy believes in the existence of what has been called an 'inner Government' which has the power to direct or guide the evolution of our planet and of mankind. Some people speak of 'occult Hierarchy', or of the 'White Lodge'. Here again what is at stake is a 'seeing through' the facts of telluric processes and human history — assuming that these facts are at least in part the outcome of the decisions of a supreme Council of quasi-divine Beings. Obviously the symbol can also refer to what occurs at the more ordinary level of business and politics. At any level, it refers to the highest form of social interaction.

This is the last symbol belonging to Scene Twenty and related to the zodiacal sign Capricorn. We see in it the culmination of social responsibility and a reference to EXECUTIVE POWER."


... sounds to me as much as like a description of the "Godhead" as anything I've read in the Vedas...

The Sabian Symbol for the first degree of Aquarius, [ibid.]

"AQUARIUS 1°: AN OLD ADOBE MISSION IN CALIFORNIA.

KEYNOTE: The power inherent in all great human works to endure far beyond the workers' life spans.

The works and spirit of the Spanish priests who directed the building of the California missions have had a lasting influence on the development of this land; these remain as a monument to the men who were able to make their mark upon this alien environment. While the zodiacal sign Capricorn begins with a symbol of socio-political power, Aquarius at its start presents a more spiritualized and idealistic or creative picture of the social forces at work. Moreover, it stresses the enduring character of human achievements ensouled by a great vision. At least within the frame of reference of our Western civilization, the symbol speaks of the projection of a noble ideal into concrete forms of beauty and significance, thus of the radiation of a 'civilizing' power into an institution offering to primitive men the opportunity to reach a higher, more organized and productive, level of activity.

This is the first stage in the sixty-first five-fold sequence. It speaks to us of THE CONCR

I point to Rudhyar's "Keyord" "THE CONCRETIZATION OF AN IDEAL"... the manifesting of a thought, an idea, into the material realm, giving it substance, making it a reality. "Let There Be Light", "May it Be Mote", "OM TAT SAT OM"

Thus the Last Degree of Cap. and the first degree of Aquar. ... right there you have the Book of Genesis.

That's what this "Great Transition" involving the tropical Ages is about, using an Age Window transiting the tropical zodiac due to the Precession of the Earth's perihelion.

The tropical movement is direct, opposite of the sidereal, retrograde Ages. So, the last degree of the tropical Age of Capricorn we're still in now will give way to the first degree of the tropical Age of Aquarius in very early January, 2149.

 

[david starling]

For the retrograde sidereal Age transition, it's the first degree of sidereal Pisces giving way to the last degree of sidereal Aquarius.

 

[piercethevale]

That's what this "Great Transition" involving the tropical Ages is about, using an Age Window transiting the tropical zodiac due to the Precession of the Earth's perihelion.

The tropical movement is direct, opposite of the sidereal, retrograde Ages. So, the last degree of the tropical Age of Capricorn we're still in now will give way to the first degree of the tropical Age of Aquarius in very early January, 2149.

I still have no idea of where you got this concept of the Tropical transitioning.

What I thought to be most interesting from my re-reading this particular chapter of the Rabbi's book is his statement that it will be Pisces that is the Cardinal Sign in the Age of Aquarius.

So the Rabbi is saying that it is once the first degree of any Sign has become the point of the Spring Equinox that said Sign becomes the Cardinal Sign for the next, apprx., 2150 years that follow and I had thought that it was when the last degree of a Sign becomes that... or, rather, I should say that I surmised, concluded on my own, that is.

 

[david starling]

I still have no idea of where you got this concept of the Tropical transitioning.

What I thought to be most interesting from my re-reading this particular chapter of the Rabbi's book is his statement that it will be Pisces that is the Cardinal Sign in the Age of Aquarius.

So the Rabbi is saying that it is once the first degree of any Sign has become the point of the Spring Equinox that said Sign becomes the Cardinal Sign for the next, apprx., 2150 years that follow and I had thought that it was when the last degree of a Sign becomes that... or, rather, I should say that I surmised, concluded on my own, that is.

That's fine, for the sidereal Ages. But, for it to be a transition from last degree Cap to first degree Aqua requires direct motion, which is a feature of the tropical Ages, not the sidereal.

 

[david starling]

The rabbi you speak of was right in tune with the Age Window method of viewing the Ages. Because, when the siderally-placed 30° Age Window coincides with a sign, its leading point, located at the 1st point of Spring, begins to transit retrograde into the previous sign.

In this case, both Aquarius AND Pisces will be in the Age Window together. He's basically saying that Pisces will be an assertive (Cardinal-sign) partner to Aquarius, rather than being a nebulous background Age-sign.

 

[david starling]

In fact, Cyril Fagan, founder of Western siderealism, said that the sidereal Aquarian Age would be extremely Piscean, just as the Age of sidereal Pisces shows so many qualities of Aries, and the sidereal Age of Aries had so many Taurian qualities.

 

[dr. farr]

I wonder if this phenomena-at least relative to the siderialist perspective on the changing AGES-is connected with the fact of the often extensive over-lapping of most of the zodiacal constellations with one another?

 

[david starling]

Well, the sidereal signs are measured at 30° each, so they don't overlap. The Age Window is measured at 30°, and after converging with one entire sign, signaling that the Age of that sign has reached completion, it begins transiting into the next NEW Age-sign. The progress of the new Age can easily be measured by seeing how much of its sign can be seen in the Window.

 

[david starling]

Well, the sidereal signs are measured at 30° each, so they don't overlap. The Age Window is measured at 30°, and after converging with one entire sign, signaling that the Age of that sign has reached completion, it begins transiting into the next NEW Age-sign. The progress of the new Age can easily be measured by seeing how much of its sign can be seen in the Window.

 

[david starling]

It's about continuity. The old influences the new. The civilizations that develop in one Age, form the background for the new civilizations that eventually replace them.

 

[dr. farr]

Well, the sidereal signs are measured at 30° each, so they don't overlap. The Age Window is measured at 30°, and after converging with one entire sign, signaling that the Age of that sign has reached completion, it begins transiting into the next NEW Age-sign. The progress of the new Age can easily be measured by seeing how much of its sign can be seen in the Window.

yes the signs are exactly 30 degrees each, but not the constellations-your concept of using signs for the criteria of the progression of the Ages solves the problem of overlap which is invariably brought into play when using the starry constellations of the zodiac in accounting for the Ages.

 

[david starling]

I use the tropical Ages to delineate Western history. I feel they correlate extremely well. I include the tropical Age Window in my charts.

I started by studying the sidereal Ages, and the combination of the tropical and the sidereal was necessary for me to get a more complete picture.

 

[dr. farr]

That certainly makes sense-at least to me !