Age of Aquarius May Not Be So Great

[david starling]

I don't consider myself as traditionalist. I'm a pragmatist, I use what I find to be working and discard what I find useless.
Yes, malefics and benefics are primarily considered as such from the point of widely accepted meanings of "good" and "bad" in the West.
Early traditional astrology was influenced by Stoic philosophy.

But in reality "good" and "bad" are relative terms. It all depends on circumstances.
For example, in Hindu tradition, 4th stage of life is called Sannyasa. It is a form of asceticism where person is detached and disinterested for material things in life. Money, possessions, comforts etc., everything average westerner considers as a "good" thing have no meaning to Sannyasa.

Right. You're going with what works for you, just like you should be doing imo.

I'm just sharing what works for me, and showing correlations that show why it works for me. It's impersonal mundane, rather than personal horary.

As I'm seeing it, once Uranian Age-rulership takes effect, our minds will be able to shake off Saturnian materialistic restrictions, and enable us to connect directly with the higher planes of existence.

 

[Cap]

Right. You're going with what works for you, just like you should be doing imo.

I'm just sharing what works for me, and showing correlations that show why it works for me. It's impersonal mundane, rather than personal horary

Regardless of personal astrological preference, planetary meanings stay the same and my initial comment was about that - you are seeing Saturn influence in everything, when there is none.

As I'm seeing it, once Uranian Age-rulership takes effect, our minds will be able to shake off Saturnian materialistic restrictions, and enable us to connect directly with the higher planes of existence.

I don't support new age theories, 5D and stuff like that. IMO, precession is too small cycle to have that kind of influence. Moreover, if this was true that would mean some astrological ages are always "good" and some astrological ages are always "bad" because it is tied to precession cycle.

If your theory is true then previous Aquarius age would have been the age

to shake off Saturnian materialistic restrictions, and enable us to connect directly with the higher planes of existence.

However, there are no findings to confirm that 26000 years ago Earth was "connected with higher planes of existence". According to mainstream history (which I don't support most of the time), 26000 years ago humans learned how to sew. And that's it, that's pretty much all that happened during last age of Aquarius.

 

[Humanitarian]

How about the masses who create as Kelly Ann Conway (the ex WH aide and lawyer) said, their"alternative" facts? Is this not a Neptune faze that has long lasting repercussions we (the collective) still is battling? Somehow it seems to be partially a negative Piscean portion.

Yes, the world right now is Pisceanly negative, and it's also Capricornianly negative also, because deception and capitalism are linked to each other because majorty of corporations/companies love to manipulate people to be a slave to capitalism

 

[david starling]

Regardless of personal astrological preference, planetary meanings stay the same and my initial comment was about that - you are seeing Saturn influence in everything, when there is none.



I don't support new age theories, 5D and stuff like that. IMO, precession is too small cycle to have that kind of influence. Moreover, if this was true that would mean some astrological ages are always "good" and some astrological ages are always "bad" because it is tied to precession cycle.

If your theory is true then previous Aquarius age would have been the age


However, there are no findings to confirm that 26000 years ago Earth was "connected with higher planes of existence". According to mainstream history (which I don't support most of the time), 26000 years ago humans learned how to sew. And that's it, that's pretty much all that happened during last age of Aquarius.

In this tropical Age of Capricorn, Time is of the essence. In the sidereal Age of Pisces, it's not.

All of our modern technology requires extremely accurate timing, and it wouldn't even be the "Modern-era" without the technology. The precise timing correlates with the tropical Saturnian Age-rulership.

The last tropical Aquarian Age, based on Precession of the Earth's Perihelion, would be about 21,500 years ago.

How would evidence of connecting with the higher planes of existence manifest in a materialistically discernable manner?

 

[Cap]

In this tropical Age of Capricorn, Time is of the essence. In the sidereal Age of Pisces, it's not.

All of our modern technology requires extremely accurate timing, and it wouldn't even be the "Modern-era" without the technology. The precise timing correlates with the tropical Saturnian Age-rulership.

The last tropical Aquarian Age, based on Precession of the Earth's Perihelion, would be about 21,500 years ago.

How would evidence of connecting with the higher planes of existence manifest in a materialistically discernable manner?

Besides "time keeping" you really don't have any other Saturn thing going on right now. And is time keeping really "the root of all evil"? If we smash all the clocks on the planet will it turn into magical paradise suddenly? And what if humanity decides to continue to use clocks in thousands years to come? Does it mean our reality will be really fucke*d up because of clocks?

Well, obviously, your magical super-duper "Uranus ruled" age of Aquarius doesn't affect intelligence of Earth's inhabitants. In the last several million years humanity went through hundreds of Aquarius ages and it took them millions of years to come up with sharp stone as a tool.

 

[david starling]

Besides "time keeping" you really don't have any other Saturn thing going on right now. And is time keeping really "the root of all evil"? If we smash all the clocks on the planet will it turn into magical paradise suddenly? And what if humanity decides to continue to use clocks in thousands years to come? Does it mean our reality will be really fucke*d up because of clocks?

Well, obviously, your magical super-duper "Uranus ruled" age of Aquarius doesn't affect intelligence of Earth's inhabitants. In the last several million years humanity went through hundreds of Aquarius ages and it took them millions of years to come up with sharp stone as a tool.

We're a Time-ruled civilization in the West. That's evidence of Saturnian Age-rulership. I credit this tropical Capricorn Age's influence for the new technology (Cardinal-Earth, innovative materialism).

The tropical Age of Cardinal-Air Libra (c.5000-3100 B.C.) gave rise to city-state civilization under Venusian Air-sign rulership, most notably in the Indus Valley region, with Venus known as Inanna/Ishtar.

The Fixed-sign Ages inherit and intensify the new developments from the Cardinal-sign Ages, and use them according to the nature of the Fixed-sign and its rulership, i.e. the mortuary culture of Ancient Egypt, during the tropical Age of Scorpio under the Age-sign rulership of Osirus/Pluto.

The Mutable-sign Ages inherit everything from the seasonal quadrant's first 2 Ages, and expand upon them in various ways. That was the tropical Age of Sagittarius under Jupiterean Age-sign rulership, c.1400 B.C. to 400 A.D.

The beginning of the tropical Age of Capricorn was marked by the Fall of Rome, then a Great Plague which resulted in what Western historians label as "the Dark Ages", and the rise to power of 2 new, Monotheistic Religions. Then, on to the middle of the tropical Age of Capricorn and the "Middle Ages"; and, the "Renaissance" following another Great Plague, along with a dramatic increase in the accuracy of timekeeping (Saturnian Age-rulership) and the gradual formation of what is now the "Modern World".

 

[david starling]

Astrology as we now know it was formed during the tropical Age of Sagittarius.

The approach of the tropical Age of Aquarius has occasioned the modification of tropical astrology into what is now known as "Modern Astrology", including the precessional Ages concept itself, predicting the Aquarian Age.

Tropically speaking, we're now in the transitional phase from tropical Capricorn to Aquarius, only about 2° to go. The OP of this thread, username "Mark", had only bad things to say about the retrograde sidereal transition from sidereal Pisces to Aquarius, but mysteriously added, "the really big transition will be on the Capricorn/Aquarius cusp". That's direct-motion, the exact tropical Age-situation we're in now. Is it possible Mark was also aware of tropical Ages? Unless he was just careless, and meant to say, "on the Aquarius/Capricorn cusp".

 

[david starling]

The reason the tropical Age start-years can be known with a fair amount of accuracy is, the tropical sign-boundaries are determined using astronomy, and are universally agreed upon by tropical astrologers. It's about when the tropical Age-marker I'm using in the tropical zodiac literally ingresses an Age-sign.

Sidereal astrologers are using history and intuition to locate the 12 equal sidereal sign-boundaries, and there is some disagreement about it. The conventional sidereal Age-marker is located in a sidereal chart using astronomy, and is called "the Vernal Point (VP)", but the year of ingress of the VP into the Age-sign varies, depending on where the sign-boundaries are located.

However, this was a thread for tropical astrologers only, who disregard the sidereal zodiacs of actual siderealists, and are using their own intuition to locate sidereal sign-boundaries based solely on when their intuition tells them the ingress of the VP into sidereal Aquarius from the retrograde Pisces side, 1) "must have" already occurred, or 2) when it "probably" will occur. Moveable goalposts!

As far as actual siderealists are concerned, meaning those who use a sidereal zodiac for ALL chart placements, which includes both Vedics and Western siderealists, the VP won't ingress sidereal Aquarius until around the year 2400, with the exact ingress date depending on just how the 12 equal-length sidereal signs are located relative to the 12 unequal-length Constellations. They vary by about 3 degrees, which is an Age-start variation of about 200 years. Western siderealists have the earliest start-year @ 2376 A.D. So, the beginning of Aquarian Age isn't even close yet according to these siderealists.

It's only tropicalists who know intuitively that it's close for themselves, and this tropical Ages method I'm sharing is the empirical reason for that, imo. Tropicalists have their OWN precessional Age of Aquarius. We can feel it, without needing to know exactly how it's determined.

It's analogous to an irregularity in the planet Saturn's orbit for an unknown reason, which led to the astronomical discovery in 1781 of a planet ( ) outside of Saturn's orbit, that was causing it.

The sidereal Ages were first proposed by tropical astrologers prior to 1900 A.D.,
but it wasn't until Carl Jung wrote about them in the 1930s that they became well-known to a majority of tropicalists.

 

[david starling]

Besides "time keeping" you really don't have any other Saturn thing going on right now. And is time keeping really "the root of all evil"? If we smash all the clocks on the planet will it turn into magical paradise suddenly? And what if humanity decides to continue to use clocks in thousands years to come? Does it mean our reality will be really fucke*d up because of clocks?

Well, obviously, your magical super-duper "Uranus ruled" age of Aquarius doesn't affect intelligence of Earth's inhabitants. In the last several million years humanity went through hundreds of Aquarius ages and it took them millions of years to come up with sharp stone as a tool.

If we got rid of modern timing devices, our entire world civilization would collapse! Most of our modern technology wouldn't work, including the electrical grids, our transportation and communication systems, and the Internet. The new driverless cars require split second timing.

It's possible that previous high tech civilizations perished for some reason. I'm sticking with recorded history that can be sufficiently verified, only going back as far as the tropical Age of Virgo period, c.6700-4900 B.C., which includes the Eastern European Vinca culture.

Wasn't Atlantis supposed to be technologically advanced, then somehow obliterated?

 

[Nexus9]

I laugh at how folks back in the 60s and 70s were going ga-ga about the "dawning of the Age of Aquarius". *CUE SONG FROM "Hair"*

Many of the aspects of society the Hippies of the 60s were attacking were, in fact, the Aquarian aspects: technology, a coldly impersonal and hyper-institutional society, etc. It seems to me that the 60s Counterculture was actually Aquarius' opposite, Leo, mixed in with non-Western Pisces Age spirituality.

For a real look at the future, look at "impersonal" social networking as well as Transhumanism.

I'd day the hippies were more of the Ura us/Neptune square between Cancer and Libra. Neptune in Libra especially

 

[david starling]

I'd day the hippies were more of the Ura us/Neptune square between Cancer and Libra. Neptune in Libra especially

There were two phases in the Libra Neptune transit, first half Uran in , second half Uran in .

Those were in the natal charts of the "Hippy Movement" participants. But Neptune was transiting Scorpio during the 1960s when it actually happened.

 

[david starling]

During this tropical Age of Capricorn ruled by Saturn, we've become trapped on the Material plane like "rats in a cage"* We can hardly even imagine another version of reality.

The Uranian-ruled Age of Aquarius will unlock the latent mental abilities that are needed to free ourselves, if we choose to do so.


*[Credit goes to Blaze for using the expression to describe our current situation.]

 

[Cap]

During this tropical Age of Capricorn ruled by Saturn, we've become trapped on the Material plane like "rats in a cage"* We can hardly even imagine another version of reality.

Most other planes are "material" from their point of view. When you are dreaming everything is solid, gravity works etc. From the point of view of inside the dream, that reality is "material".
Every other reality is an illusion just like this one. There is no such thing as "perfect reality".
Liberation of a being inside this or any other reality is not about changing that reality into better one but realizing that you are not the body, realizing that you are not inside some reality but reality is inside you.
Using a dream as comparison again, clearly you are not the body inside the dream. And the whole dream universe is inside you. "You" to which I am referring is formless, it doesn't have a body or shape. In that formless "you" the whole boundless universe can easily fit in, because it is imagined, or more precisely hallucinated. It is unwilling, automatic imagination - just like dreams.

The Uranian-ruled Age of Aquarius will unlock the latent mental abilities that are needed to free ourselves, if we choose to do so.

Mental abilities are part of the illusion. Body, mind, mental abilities, world and universe - that's all imagined. Yes, they can get better or worse inside this reality but they are not crucial. Liberation itself is imagined concept. If reality is inside you how could you ever be bound? The whole trick is to realize you are not the body inside some reality, then there's no one left to be liberated.

 

[Cap]

We're a Time-ruled civilization in the West. That's evidence of Saturnian Age-rulership. I credit this tropical Capricorn Age's influence for the new technology (Cardinal-Earth, innovative materialism).

If we got rid of modern timing devices, our entire world civilization would collapse! Most of our modern technology wouldn't work, including the electrical grids, our transportation and communication systems, and the Internet. The new driverless cars require split second timing.

I think you are over-emphasizing the role of "time keeping". Time itself is not universal, time is observer related. What we call time are changes inside this reality. Because reality is ever changing, we attribute those changes to "time". In deep meditation, when your senses are withdrawn from this reality, you experience your being as timeless - because you innermost nature is changeless and there are no changes to observe.

I would argue that ages before the advent of timekeeping were not much better than this current age. There were still a lot of wars, killings, slavery, hunger, disease etc. Obviously, "time keeping" is not to be blamed for all of this.

 

[david starling]

Most other planes are "material" from their point of view. When you are dreaming everything is solid, gravity works etc. From the point of view of inside the dream, that reality is "material".
Every other reality is an illusion just like this one. There is no such thing as "perfect reality".
Liberation of a being inside this or any other reality is not about changing that reality into better one but realizing that you are not the body, realizing that you are not inside some reality but reality is inside you.
Using a dream as comparison again, clearly you are not the body inside the dream. And the whole dream universe is inside you. "You" to which I am referring is formless, it doesn't have a body or shape. In that formless "you" the whole boundless universe can easily fit in, because it is imagined, or more precisely hallucinated. It is unwilling, automatic imagination - just like dreams.

Mental abilities are part of the illusion. Body, mind, mental abilities, world and universe - that's all imagined. Yes, they can get better or worse inside this reality but they are not crucial. Liberation itself is imagined concept. If reality is inside you how could you ever be bound? The whole trick is to realize you are not the body inside some reality, then there's no one left to be liberated.

I'm thinking of them as senses, like hearing and seeing, and that we have other types of valuable senses that we're currently unable to access. I'm satisfied with a better illusion of reality. A good dream is preferable to a nightmare.

The Yugas have gradations. There's perfect, less than perfect, even less perfect, and terrible. It could be that the upcoming Aquarian Age just happens to be synchronized with the onset of a better Yuga than the one we have now.

 

[Cap]

I'm thinking of them as senses, like hearing and seeing, and that we have other types of valuable senses that we're currently unable to access. I'm satisfied with a better illusion of reality. A good dream is preferable to a nightmare.

That's purely form the Western point of view. Striving for the end result, a purpose, justification of events, duality.
In the East they have concepts like Lila (divine play) or very similar concept Wu Wei (spontaneity, non-doing, going with the flow).

Horror, war movie or drama can be as exciting and enjoyable as love story or comedy. While you are immersed in the story, you sympathize with characters, but once the movie is over you are aware that characters were not real and nobody was hurt.
The same goes for nightmare.
The same goes for our reality.

 

[Cap]

The Yugas have gradations. There's perfect, less than perfect, even less perfect, and terrible. It could be that the upcoming Aquarian Age just happens to be synchronized with the onset of a better Yuga than the one we have now.

IMO, recent attempts to shorten Yuga cycles and to synchronize it with precession are wishful thinking.
When ancients declared Kali Yuga to be 432,000 years long, they were perfectly aware how long this cycle is. Claiming that they made a mistake and that "what they actually meant" is short Kali Yuga of 2,400 years is clearly wishful thinking of modern impatient humans.
432,000 years in not that long, it's a blink of an eye for immortal timeless being such as ourselves.

 

[david starling]

Where does Jung's concept of the "Collective Unconscious" fit into all of this?

 

[Cap]

Where does Jung's concept of the "Collective Unconscious" fit into all of this?

By "Collective Unconscious" Jung was referring to middle section of this picture.
Your true nature is that "question mark" on the right. There is only one "question mark". In other words, all are one and you are everything and everyone.
Because there is only one "question mark", there is only one mind, thus it is "collective". This collective mind is branching into multitude of seemingly separate minds of particular beings (left portion of the picture). While these branches are separate in a sense that no one can read your thoughts or know your dreams, all these branches have the same root, the one big mind that connects them all.

Mind itself is just a collection of thoughts. It's a turbulent or disturbed consciousness.
Thoughts are not voluntary. You have zero control over choosing your thoughts. Therefore, thoughts are not actually "yours".

 

[david starling]

The splendid APPEARANCE of separateness is why we each have our own natal chart.