Absence of element/modality means strong?

KindredKayla

Well-known member
I have five planets in water, five in earth, two in air (10 planets + Asc. and Mc) but none in fire.. with the exception of Chiron! However I have an energized Pluto in Scorpio in the 9th (fire house) conjunct my Mars in the ninth.. My Sun and Mercury are also in the 9th!

I feel fairly balanced, but I can be prone to falling into 'ruts' - misplacing or losing my ambition/inspiration/internal fire in times of emotional crisis or upset.. When I was young it wouldn't take much for me to throw my hands up and give up, and I was always told I was "too sensitive". It doesn't take much for me to cry, even to this day, and I am a deeply emotional person, but I have already learned much about balancing my emotions, discerning between when and how much I should respond emotionally as opposed to mentally, etc. Maybe this is my strong, airy, libra sun speaking. :)

As for lighting candles, swimming, any indication of overindulging or under-indulging to try and create this harmonization.. I did find when I was younger that the Sun would directly affect me emotionally. I remember getting so anxious when it would set, whether in the summer when the days were long or in the winter when we had little hours of daylight. I would cry and cry and not understand why - I am just wondering now in reading the posts in this thread if my lack of 'fire' really did translate as an insecurity when I was younger. I also remember in the summer just dying of the heat, being unable to stand it.. I would wilt, hide inside. But I had always LOVED swimming and I have always been considered a 'fish'! hehe.. You know, last one out of the pool.. the one that came out of the river last to a bag of empty chips the rest of the family had gone through.. I've also cherished the Snow and would spend hours outside in it, no matter if the sun had already set or if I was alone.. and a Canadian winter can get very cold and menacing in the dark of night! :p

In noting earth I am not afraid to get my hands into the soil, lie in the grass, climb trees.. I sometimes get sad if there are no plants or 'earth' of some kind in the classrooms or houses I am in.. Personally I love orchids and they seem to love me, too! Blooming again and again and again.. My mother is a Taurus sun sign and I have always considered her more 'earthy' than I; she has an incredible green thumb and love of nature.. But in looking at her planets they are all mostly in air or fire signs! I can't speak for houses because I do not have her birth time.

Now that I am older my relationship to the sun has changed.. Now I crave and deeply cherish the Sun, I love when he comes out and feel bad when I've spent the whole day inside, away from him. I no longer squirm in the heat in the summer! I absorb it all in and I am sad to see the Sun go at night, but I know he will be back. Almost like seeing and saying goodbye to a good friend. Except even though we see each other almost everyday, it feels almost everyday like he's been gone for a century...

In fact, when I think about it even more, I have always felt absolutely wonderful at sunrises.. watching the sky begin to lighten and warm as the sun begins to flirt with the horizon... then at the moment when the sun kisses the sky and everything turns to gold, knowing we have a whole, wonderful day together still ahead... Oh it's just pure warmth and ecstasy.. When I was younger I just looovved the mornings, but when I became old enough to enjoy sunrises, they became one of my favourite things. Still are and always will be...

Ohhh, I love the sun! ~ :biggrin:

Funnily enough, "Here Comes The Sun" by the Beatles always pops into my head when I'm feeling 'sunny!'

But it is even interesting here to see the majority of people noting a lack of water... and very few noting a lack of fire! Though of course it's surprising for me, I'm biased! A very peculiar topic, indeed..



"..Suun, sun, sun, here we come!~"
 
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Re: singleton vs. void, to steph

steph,

You said:


Thanks for the example! I do understand singletons and how, when you have one sign of an element/modality you can tend to overdo that sign energy. The thing that I am thinking and rethinking is what happens when you have a void in a sign (e.g., absolutely no signs in water). If a person has NO water signs, how do they behave in an overly "watery" way? Or is it maybe a "fake water", where they use what they have to TRY to be "watery" and it doesn't really work? Maybe it all comes down to "we always want what we can't have" (i.e., the voids in sign element/modality)?

Astro-thinking,

Tim

I also think katydid was right, I only have neptune in scorpio, BUT it's anguler (10th) and opp sun/moon -- so the aspects also bring more emotions in.

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org/articles/inferior/inferior2.htm

http://www.astrology-numerology.com/elements.html
 
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BOOGY99

Well-known member
To all,

Something I have been wondering about is astrologers find an element or modality entirely missing in the person...and then turn around and say that makes the modality "strong" in the chart. For example, a person has no Fire element in their chart, so they are very "Firey". To me this has never made any sense and I haven't seen any evidence in charts that this works. Sometimes a person will have nothing in an element and then have a house in the same element, as in a person has no fire but they have strong fire houses, but other than that, "if it ain't there it ain't there." Or perhaps there is a more reasonable way to look at this? How can someone with nothing in a chart element or modality be strong in that element or modality? That sounds to me like saying a person who has no money actually being very wealthy?

Confused on this point,


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Interesting, i have no planets in fire, scented candles all over the house lol, oh and i love a real fire, have two in both rooms.
i think i overcompensate for the lack of fire, but people who know me would not say that i am a "wall flower" so to speak lol

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my chart
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/album.php?albumid=90

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Kingsley

Well-known member
Hi Boogy99, it does sound like an oxymoron doesnt it.

Having and imbalance of a particulr element does represent an emphasis in the chart. One would best configure this information into the reading. I am not sure that having "no fire elememnt" means that the person is "firey" though. Fire is creativity and passion and action based motivations. Having no fire means that the person has no planets in the fire triplicities. Therefore that person may seek out a way to balance that lacking element by aligning themselves with a person who does have fire. The contradiction can be that the person's ascendant is fire or that the person overcompensates for the lacking element by exaggerating what is missing.

The lacking element is definitely an emphasis in the chart however no fire is no fire.

kingsley
 

C0rnholio

Well-known member
I know for sure that a person with a lacking element will seek to compensate for that lack by engaging in activities of the houses of the lacking element. So it would appear that they have a lot of that element. But I do not know if it means Houses 1,5 and 9 (for Fire), or the houses that happen to be in that element in the individual's chart.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
When there is a lack of element there is a lack of element. The psychology of the "lack of element" sometimes refers to over compensating however I am not sure that this is a solid rule COrnholio. One can have a lack of money but that doesnt necessarily mean they will compensate by attaining more money.

I think the a chart will show other information how a fundemental and instinctive Element weighting works in personality.

kingsley
 

C0rnholio

Well-known member
One can have no (money) and compensate for that by acting as if they have a ton or it. Having no (money) becomes an issue, and the drive to obtain it becomes very strong. That drive can take unnatural forms... because the natural way does not exist for that person. I think 07.Re has a good example above. Someone with no water finds ways to become emotional. Someone with no fire searches for ways to get fired up. Someone with no earth finds ways to become practical. And someone with no air finds a way to become an intellectual. That drive to obtain something that the person does not have can even become an obsession. Think about it, a well-balanced person would not have to go to extremes to get something that he/she already has, right? But those with a lack of some sort often exhibit a strong drive, the powerful drive that the astrologers refer to when talking about the lack of element in someone's chart.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
I hear whet you are saying COrnholio. The motivation or drive to incorporate more practicality or emotive response is one way the human psyche finds balance to survive however in my view it is not an instinctive trait. The "compensative element" can fall down in some situations especially during change or crisis.

best
Kingsley
 

starlink

Well-known member
Yes, Kingsley is right. Element lack shows that that part (mental agility (Air), taking initiative (Fire) etc. is lacking from the psychological make-up of the person resulting in finding other people who have that lacking element strongly in their charts, sort of getting help from outside, advice etc. and a general weak expression of those elements. Marion March & Joan McEverts however feel that when the Ascendant of the person falls in the lacking element (so no water but a Cancer, Scorpio or Pisces Asc.), the person will express these qualities apparently much stronger than people who do have this element well occupied in their charts.

Also, having the houses of life occupied helps to a certain extend (say no Earth but full 10th house).

Also helpful is a strong conjunction with the Ascendant by a planet representing the element which is lacking. Like Mars in Capricorn conjunct Ascendant like Jack Benny had. He has no fire otherwise but does have a strong 5th house with Moon in it. These are all compensation factors.

Apart from lack of Element we also should look at lack of Quality (Cardinal, Fixed, Mutable) to figure out if the person is able to take charge, is flexible or holds on to things.
 

C0rnholio

Well-known member
I hear whet you are saying COrnholio. The motivation or drive to incorporate more practicality or emotive response is one way the human psyche finds balance to survive however in my view it is not an instinctive trait. The "compensative element" can fall down in some situations especially during change or crisis.
Yes, the expression of this drive is not instinctive and not natural. It can't be because the natural means or its expression are missing. The only definite characteristic of this drive is that where it manifests itself it is strong.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Thats the way it can work 07. Its a bit like "companion planting" with some relationships. As someone suggested it helps to look at the modalities of Fixed, Cardinal and Mutable as these will also have a say in the matter.

I view the elements and qualities as fundemental building blocks in life. Every biological organism has a way of surviving. On that instinctive level there is no "good versus bad" traits its just the way things are in ones character.

I have more Fire element with six planets in fire however there is not much variation in the weighting system used to determine the scoring of elements. The ascendant or midheaven will score in the weighting of elements and the luminaries have extra points.

Some people have a strong character base with an emphasis of elements or qualities while others have balance in their scoring. It is ok either way. The chart aspects and planetary placements are descriptive layers of personality over the top of and joined with, the fundemental sign elements. Most important to understand and incorporate into readings.

kingsley
 

07.Re

Well-known member
Kingsley, I have 9 cardinals (incl north node, chiron) and 5 Mutables (incl MC and Asc)... no fixed. I am a great starter at something but don't follow through to the end.... no wonder!
 

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Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Kingsley, I have 9 cardinals (incl north node, chiron) and 5 Mutables (incl MC and Asc)... no fixed. I am a great starter at something but don't follow through to the end.... no wonder!

And here I thought this was only an Aries trait! :lol:

I have a similar dilemma in my natal chart, although technically, I have one planet in a fixed sign--Pluto in Scorpio. Do the placements of generational placements such as Pluto count in the assessment of the absence of an element or modality?

Marion March & Joan McEverts however feel that when the Ascendant of the person falls in the lacking element (so no water but a Cancer, Scorpio or Pisces Asc.), the person will express these qualities apparently much stronger than people who do have this element well occupied in their charts.

Also helpful is a strong conjunction with the Ascendant by a planet representing the element which is lacking.

I personally agree with these statements, for I have a lack of water in my natal chart--only the generational Pluto in Scorpio. I may have a Pisces Ascendant, but even if I do not, the Moon conjunct my Ascendant may explain the unusually-strong "water" tendencies I express.

Arian Maverick
 
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Kingsley

Well-known member
I used to ignore the outer planets in the weightings of elements and modality. One can configure their astro program to do so. I dont bother so much these days.

k
 
Well,

It's been awhile since anyone posted here. I have very much enjoyed reading everyone's posts.

I have NO AIR what-so-ever, and neither does my dearest friend.

I was wondering, then, based on what everyone is saying, does my Cancer in Sun and Leo Mercury in the 7th house make up for this? What about my ruling planet, Saturn in Sag, in the 11th house? Saturn is also trine my Sun and Mercury.

I suppose I could answer this question myself. I DO think it makes a difference. Of course, I lack objectivity, supposedly. :tongue:

I also have Chiron in Gemini in the 6th, and Gemini is on the Cusp of the Sixth house. I suppose the fact that this house is already associated with the Mutable modality helps.

I have my NN in Aries in the 3rd house-- this must help. Of course it is square my Sun and Moon, oy.


Would I say then, that I overcompensate? I suppose. I get really aggressive during Trivial Pursuit. :bandit:

but I have been told I'm an intellectual... am I dreaming this up?!

That said, I am woefully attracted to Air and Air-Fire types, and repelled by the Water-Earth types, but most especially, the Water-Fire types. Ok repelled is a strong word, but I definitely like to surround myself with Airy types. I have a consistent attraction to Air types, only have dated those with Air Sign Moons, particularly Aquarius. So I suppose I seek balance there.

Le sigh. It is true, I do have a hard time seeing myself clearly, or understanding situations unemotionally.

I'm happy my ASC has finally progressed into Aquarius. WHEW!

Mod.
 

C0rnholio

Well-known member
Modcleopatra -- You have a South Node in Libra, so the theory goes that any reasoning, logic, balancing and thinking are easy and natural to you, and have been your main focus in your past lives. And your goal is actually the opposite -- your North Node in Aries, which is more action, excitement, fighting, taking charge, starting things, focusing on your own self.

Check out this guy: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tolstoy,_Leo He has no air, but he is obviously an intellectual. His North Node was in Libra, he wrote some books, and your North Node is in Aries, so maybe you should take up book burning? ;)

I need your help though. And everyone else's in this thread too. I have a sort of a romantic friend, who I care very much about. She has no Air in her chart, not even in her nodes. Her only Air is a Chiron in Gemini, just like yours. I would really like to help her. I even feel responsible because I am one of the few people who she let into her life. I have enough of Air in my chart, and she told me once that she thinks when I speak, and that she is excited to just talk with me. I really would like to help her grow on her own and not be dependent on me, because this is what she wants too. If you figure out a way to nurture her Air qualities please let me know here or privately. I tried to get her into reading, studying and other thinking activities, but this hasn't worked well. Getting her "Air" through personal relationships (her 7th house cusp in Libra) is all that she knows.
 
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vanila

Well-known member
:smile:

I have noticed that in my case ...I have 6 water planets and 1 fire, 1 air(singleton) and 2 earth....so all the people that are surrounding me are in my work...fire and air...people, in my family fire and air, and friends not much but earth or water people......

About the lack of fire I have read that the :sun::conjunct::mars: can be taken as some kind of compensation......but mine is in Cancer in 6th house.....so I think it is not working very well....
About :uranus: in :sagittarius: in 11th ......it is a good position...and :uranus::sextile::jupiter:(in 1st house).....I feel the energy ...but it needs some Fire or Air to activate it....doesn't matter is it coming from other person or by changing the sign of progressed planets.....

Air.....:jupiter: in :aquarius: 1st house....:jupiter: is under pressure here ....it is apex of a T-square and singleton.....
I have a college she has Libra ASC, Sun, stelium and little Scorpio and Sagittarius .....I can't understand her need to talk to be with the people....and etc...she loves the symmetry in the things..... :unsure:.....she is just to much for me to take.......if I start to read her.....
:mercury: on the DC...I love smart people...I love to listen to smart people...and I guess that is why my surrounding is most Air people...

About the modalities I have emphasize on Fixed signs....some Cardinal and 1 planet in Mutable sign.....but Sun, Mars,Pluto, Moon and Neptune in Mutable house ..so I think there is balance in this area....

Wish you good luck....:smile:
 
Modcleopatra -- You have a South Node in Libra, so the theory goes that any reasoning, logic, balancing and thinking are easy and natural to you, and have been your main focus in your past lives. And your goal is actually the opposite -- your North Node in Aries, which is more action, excitement, fighting, taking charge, starting things, focusing on your own self.

Check out this guy: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tolstoy,_Leo He has no air, but he is obviously an intellectual. His North Node was in Libra, he wrote some books, and your North Node is in Aries, so maybe you should take up book burning? ;)

I have thought similarly about my fiery disposition plus my NN. It's interesting, I suppose, given my lack of Air and my SN in Libra, especially in the 9th house. I sometimes feel like I totally abandoned everything I experienced in past lives! I have so many retrograde planets (all but Venus, actually), and Pluto at the tippy-top of my chart.

I have ripped up a few books... if that counts for anything! :innocent::innocent:

I need your help though. And everyone else's in this thread too. I have a sort of a romantic friend, who I care very much about. She has no Air in her chart, not even in her nodes. Her only Air is a Chiron in Gemini, just like yours. I would really like to help her. I even feel responsible because I am one of the few people who she let into her life. I have enough of Air in my chart, and she told me once that she thinks when I speak, and that she is excited to just talk with me. I really would like to help her grow on her own and not be dependent on me, because this is what she wants too. If you figure out a way to nurture her Air qualities please let me know here or privately. I tried to get her into reading, studying and other thinking activities, but this hasn't worked well. Getting her "Air" through personal relationships (her 7th house cusp in Libra) is all that she knows.

I'll PM you about this one so we don't get off topic, ok?



Modcleopatra, I think your lack of Air would show regarding Objectivity, and probably in the way you behave in your social environment.

Tis true tis true. I sometimes watch how others react to gauge how I should react. I always know my response will be somehow limited. Or I just pay heed to my Capricorn Moon and barely react-- never fails to do the trick!

I've checked the definition of "intellectual", but I think we normally use the word for someone who is agile with words, especially if they have good memories and are able to talk about Literature, History, Psychology...people who are good at giving a talk on a particular subject. It seems to me that you are very good with words. :smile:

Thanks Haizea!! :cool: I have been told this and I like to think it is true! I do best when I understand that I am going to talk on a subject, whereas casual free-flow conversation makes me want to run away, very very far away.

I said I consider myself Air (my Sun), but I don't consider myself an intellectual and nobody uses that word to define me. :biggrin:

Haha! My partner is a Gemini and he feels the same way about himself. I would have to say I agree! :tongue: But he knows how to hold a conversation... :literally seizes up at the thought:

you guys are great! :love:

mod.
 

Kingsley

Well-known member
Hi, its good to see such good comments from air reduced folk. I dont think its ever a problem its just an underlying weighting in personality. Some people are good at "doing" some prefer to "think" and others "feel". We do all of these really, however like with temperaments or learned behaviours we gravitate towards different modes of surviving.

Having no air doesnt stop writing communicating or thinking capacities. I have a lot of fire so I am good at doing things but only when I am passionate about something.

kingsley
 
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