About the Ascendant

[nekohakase]

What exactly is the downside to not knowing your ascendant?

I read a story about an astrologer who did predictions for himself, finding that they were off a bit as far as timing was concerned.

But then he changed the numbers a bit, backed it up by a few minutes, and the predictions came true like clockwork.

Does that mean that knowing your ascendant simply means accurate predictions as far as dates and times, or is it much deeper than that?

 

[Arian Maverick]

nekohakase,

I suppose the most obvious disadvantage of this situation would be the uncertainty shrouding the exact placement of your house cusps, as well as the natal planets contained within. The planetary energies tend to manifest themselves in specific areas as indicated by their house placements, and depending upon the accuracy of one's time of birth, the moon may change signs as well.

Arian Maverick

 

[Sandra]

Ascendant

Hello nekohakase,

the ascendant is the most important component of a chart and not only for making accurate predications. Without knowing the AC one will never find out where he has got his place in life. The location of the ruler of the AC, its house-position tells your place/location in life. The themes of that house build the frame within the life of a person will happen.

Sandra

 

[Missa]

Hello nekohakase,

the ascendant is the most important component of a chart and not only for making accurate predications. Without knowing the AC one will never find out where he has got his place in life. The location of the ruler of the AC, its house-position tells your place/location in life. The themes of that house build the frame within the life of a person will happen.

Sandra

Ouch, what if you don't know the house position of the ruler of the AC? I know my birth time, but Mercury (Virgo rising) is on the border of 2nd and 3rd house, and the placement depends of the house system you use. Some place it on the 2nd, some on the 3rd. So, knowing your birth time and ascendant is not always enough.

Gosh, why do I need to have such a difficult birth time, first I was looking at the wrong chart because of the summer time/winter time mess, and now that I have the correct chart I don't know in which houses all the planets are because many of them are on the border of two houses.

 

[Arian Maverick]

I sympathize with you greatly, as I have been attempting to erect a proper natal chart for myself as well; the time on my birth certificate states I was born at 6:04 AM, which places my Ascendant at 1 Aries 10'21". However, in the northern hemisphere, Aries and Pisces are two of the fastest-moving Ascendants, and an error margin of only three minutes would give me a Pisces Ascendant! To further complicate the matter, I have a major first house stellium in Aries involving my natal moon and a tight Sun-Mercury-Venus conjunction, giving my personality a decidedly Arian influence and possibly shrouding my Piscean nature.

You may wish to participate in the thread Chart Rectification

Arian Maverick

 

[Sandra]

Ascendant

Hello Missa,

yes, in your case it's a little tricky to define. So, if you want, we can find it out together. How many degrees is your Mercury away from the cusp of your 3rd house? When I have understood you right, then Mercury ist still in your 2nd house but very close to the cusp of the 3rd. How many degrees away? Please tell me, which house-system do you use?
Looking forward
Sandra

 

[Missa]

Hello Missa,

yes, in your case it's a little tricky to define. So, if you want, we can find it out together. How many degrees is your Mercury away from the cusp of your 3rd house? When I have understood you right, then Mercury ist still in your 2nd house but very close to the cusp of the 3rd. How many degrees away? Please tell me, which house-system do you use?
Looking forward
Sandra

Well, that's the problem, I'm not sure which house system to use. So far I've used Regiomontanus, which places Mercury on the beginning of 3rd house, but Placidus for example places it on the middle of 2nd house - not even close to the 3rd house. I have the same problem with Jupiter (5th or 6th house?) and Neptune (4th or 5th house?). Fun.

 

[Sandra]

Ascendant

Hello Arian,

anyway, there are a few possibilities to clarify that.
Does your first house include Aries completely? When yes,
Mars is the ruler of your AC and his location can tell you, if the themes of that house are more predominant, than the themes of Neptuns house. The other possibility is to find out what was the situation of your parents at your birth and what happend afterwards. There you can find out, if the circumstances where Mars or Neptun like.
Today I have made the chart of Shiloh Nouvel (Astro.com), baby of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. I don't know, If you have the date of birth yet, I will put it here, and she has got the same problem as you. Her AC is 29° Pisces. So, life will tell, if Neptun is the ruler or Mars. Sometimes it is tricky, but one can find out.
Here the birth data: May, 27th 2006, 1.40 a.m. Swakopmund, Namibia. A member of our Forum has got it from a Yahoo News Site

Sandra

 

[Sandra]

House-systems

Hello Missa,

then you have to clarify yourself. Ponder about your 2nd and your 3 rd house themes and find out what is predominant and even shaped your life. And by doing so, you even will find out, what's the more precise house-system.
I see, you and Arian, you both have to work a little more than others.

Sandra

 

[Lapis]

Ascendant and its Ruler

Missa,

I'll offer one more thing to complicate your situation......or maybe not!

Many astrologers have used Chiron as the 'Ruler' for the sign Virgo for years now. So just for the heck of it, you might try experimenting with using Chiron instead of Mercury. Try the house systems that feels the most 'correct' to you again but use Chiron (not Mercury) and see if he changes houses using different House Systems (Placidus and Koch for starters). Just a suggestion because I use Chiron and he's conjunct my Sun. Either way, I'd still suggest that you look into Chiron because of your Virgo Asc.

 

[Arian Maverick]

Does your first house include Aries completely? When yes,
Mars is the ruler of your AC and his location can tell you, if the themes of that house are more predominant, than the themes of Neptuns house.

Yes, even if I was indeed born with a Pisces Ascendant, my second house cusp is located well within Taurus; therefore, my first house would include all thirty degrees of Aries. In addition to ruling my Ascendant, my natal Mars also greatly influence my first house Aries stellium, as it forms a nearly partile (exact) sextile with my tight Sun-Venus conjunction and is in mutual reception with Mercury. Mars is also the focal point of one of my yods, receiving a quincunx aspect from my tenth house Saturn in Capricorn and my eighth house Pluto in Scorpio.

The main feature of my natal chart, however, is a massive series of squares between my first house stellium of inner planets in Aries and my tenth house stellium of outer planets in Capricorn. The dynamics between these planets are very intense, and Neptune is indeed involved. This causes me to believe that Neptune may be my chart ruler, although I relate with the energy of Gemini as well.

The other possibility is to find out what was the situation of your parents at your birth and what happend afterwards. There you can find out, if the circumstances where Mars or Neptun like.

According to accounts from my mother, I had a relatively normal birth without complications. However, it may be notable to mention that my mother was in active labor when her contractions suddenly stopped, as if I had decided that I would rather not arrive that day--maybe tomorrow would be preferable! The doctor obviously had a different idea, which allowed no room for indecision; I would be delivered that day, whether I liked it or not!

Arian Maverick

 

[Francesca]

Another Virgo asc/saturn question

My asc. is 3'42''Virgo. Right now Sat is beating me up by transiting my natal sat/pluto conj. in the 12th. I was looking forward to some relief next year but, of course, Sat will enter Virgo.

If the asc is that important, what kinds of effects will I see with a sat tranit?
Any input helpful-I'm a newbie. Thanks

 

[Arian Maverick]

Francesca,

I suggest you create a new thread in the Predictive Astrology Board

Arian Maverick

 

[Missa]

Missa,

I'll offer one more thing to complicate your situation......or maybe not!

Many astrologers have used Chiron as the 'Ruler' for the sign Virgo for years now. So just for the heck of it, you might try experimenting with using Chiron instead of Mercury. Try the house systems that feels the most 'correct' to you again but use Chiron (not Mercury) and see if he changes houses using different House Systems (Placidus and Koch for starters). Just a suggestion because I use Chiron and he's conjunct my Sun. Either way, I'd still suggest that you look into Chiron because of your Virgo Asc.

I have Chiron in 10th house. I know 10th house is significant to me in this life, as I have MC and North node in conjunction (and Lilith between them, sounds like fun?). However I have Chiron in Gemini, while MC-Lilith-North node in Taurus. The same problem, Taurus/Gemini, 2nd/3rd house...

 

[Arian Maverick]

An unexpected segue way into this conversation presented itself today, and I was able to gather more details about my birth:

My mother was given an accidental overdose of pitocin, which caused her contradictions to come faster and harder. These conditions seem more of the nature of Mars than Neptune, but then again, my brother--whose birth was more complicated than my own--is definitely Pisces Rising.

The search continues...

Arian Maverick