Abortion - Your Opinion

[Dirius]

This argument style of yours is very NOT emotionally laborious. Why do you guys teach each other these **** methods of rigidity online anyway?!

Honey, you stated that there is a system in place preventing people from attaining mobility. Am I wrong to state this is what you said?

 

[chay]

Exactly, and it is illegal and restricted in most of the third world - which means a conversation on those areas is kind of irrelevant. If you wish to go to Africa and campaign for "women's rights", thats fine with me. Good luck!

How is this even an answer to anything? Go preach the snip. Not your business no matter what country.

 

[chay]

So you agree the reason people can't pull themselves up, is because someone at the top is preventing them from doing so.

Keep voting for socialism, I'm sure you'll be fine in the long run.

Like I pointed out, it's socialism raising your unaborted, unwanted babies not charity. How do you think these children will survive without socialist assistance?

 

[david starling]

Like I pointed out, it's socialism raising your unaborted, unwanted babies not charity. How do you think these children will survive without socialist assistance?

It's NOT "socialism". It's a welfare safety net made possible by capitalism

Those who oppose the welfare safety net are social Darwinists.

 

[david starling]

Quite the contrary. This is exactly what women these days are looking for. Your generation rebelled against such structure. The current generation didn't have it, and are drawn to it. And its much more rare than in your day.

You are old, and I mean no offense with this, but you have no idea how the current dating scene works. There is a generational divide between us, and I presume you have little experience with dating apps, current hook-up culture and other challenges my generation (and those who are younger) face on a daily basis. Women these days have higher expectations towards men than they did in your day, while ironically, men have less to offer.


My generation is less likely to get married, given most people my age grew up with divorced parents. The attitude of younger generations towards marriage is quite negative, particularly for men, whom are more concerned with living a simple life free of problems. And the current hook-up culture makes this much easier, given you can interact with multiple women, and be care-free.

The older women get, they have to lower their standards, and most end up being desperate for a relationship. If you go into Tinder, or some other app, you'll find an endless amount of women in their late 30's looking for a partner, which they will most likely never find. You can thank the "feminist revolution" for that.

Modernist astrologers call it the Neptune in Capricorn generation.

 

[Dirius]

Like I pointed out, it's socialism raising your unaborted, unwanted babies not charity. How do you think these children will survive without socialist assistance?

Actually socialism isn't doing anything good for anyone:

- Orphanages were for a long time run by private benefactors sponsoring them, showing you don't really need state intervention to have a system in place: not that orphanages were great, and certainly had problems, but shows private enterprise can step in and deal with the situation.

- Foster care is state run, but has shown to have detrimental effects on children, mainly due to the (socialist) compensation factor: people take the child into their homes, but only for the monthly check they get from the government, rather than for genuine care, and usually disregard the child; a private system of foster care might be better.

- As for adoption agencies, most of these are actually privately own, usually run by a non-profit organization trying to help children, and they work rather well.

You are actually a good example of how private foster care is good and better than the socialist scheme: you took a poor child in, because you wanted to help, not because of some government compensation - which is the reason in your case, in which you were able to succeed. But this was done out of your own free will, and no socialism involved. You are the perfect example to prove my point on private charity, rather than government run programs.

 

[chay]

It's NOT "socialism". It's a welfare safety net made possible by capitalism

Those who oppose the welfare safety net are social Darwinists.

Its sure not fund raisers from the country club

 

[david starling]

Its sure not fund raisers from the country club

The welfare safety net is a combination of private and public efforts to promote the general Welfare of a nation, so that everyone is included: No child left behind.

 

[passiflora]

Honey, you stated that there is a system in place preventing people from attaining mobility. Am I wrong to state this is what you said?

No. You're not wrong. Just not wise.

 

[Dirius]

No. You're not wrong. Just not wise.

Then stop trying to explain the evident contradiction in your logic.

 

[david starling]

So you agree the reason people can't pull themselves up, is because someone at the top is preventing them from doing so.

Keep voting for socialism, I'm sure you'll be fine in the long run.

Keep voting for social Darwinism. That will keep your inferiors in their place!

 

[passiflora]

It must be nice to reason strictly inside the pages of textbooks, Dirius, crisp and unfettered by messy feminine contradiction, like elementary mathematics.

Ukpoohbear - It can happen for you. Believe and let go of the rest *}

 

[waybread]

Quite the contrary. This is exactly what women these days are looking for. Your generation rebelled against such structure. The current generation didn't have it, and are drawn to it. And its much more rare than in your day.

You are old, and I mean no offense with this, but you have no idea how the current dating scene works. There is a generational divide between us, and I presume you have little experience with dating apps, current hook-up culture and other challenges my generation (and those who are younger) face on a daily basis. Women these days have higher expectations towards men than they did in your day, while ironically, men have less to offer.

Dirius, you're being silly again. You've been reading to much Jordan Peterson. Who's had an interesting life, battling addiction in eastern Europe since his best-seller book came out.

You are seriously into middle age, and are not young any more.

You cannot possibly generalize across millions of people, saying they all want the same thing.

You cannot possibly speak for young women. You are not part of their cohort, either.

Unlike you, I tend to read a lot about social trends.

You contradict yourself. Hook-up culture is not exactly young women looking for the younger version of Daddy to provide for them and the kiddies.

A big social trend that you're missing is younger people not being so hung up on prescribed gender roles. You've heard of LGBTQ people, I take it.

My generation is less likely to get married, given most people my age grew up with divorced parents. The attitude of younger generations towards marriage is quite negative, particularly for men, whom are more concerned with living a simple life free of problems. And the current hook-up culture makes this much easier, given you can interact with multiple women, and be care-free.

I agree that many people (and not just the younger ones) see no need to get married. For one thing, most young women expect to support themselves financially. Sexually, they are not saving themselves for marriage. But this contradicts your theory on what women want.

The older women get, they have to lower their standards, and most end up being desperate for a relationship. If you go into Tinder, or some other app, you'll find an endless amount of women in their late 30's looking for a partner, which they will most likely never find. You can thank the "feminist revolution" for that.

Don't be so silly, Dirius. Life was a lot harder for older single women prior to the 1970s. Fewer well-paying jobs were open to them, and there used to be a big stigma on being "an old maid." Marriage was also a lot harder because there were so few grounds for divorce if a marriage became utterly disfunctional.

I read horoscopes for women (and the occasional man) who are lonely and wondering when they will meet "the one." The best advice I can give them when the chart doesn't favor romance is to be the best single they know how to be. The worst thing is to project a lot of emotional need on some hapless guy who, like you, thinks that promiscuity is his prerogative.

Thanks to second-wave feminism, women have access to educations and careers formerly closed to them. They can earn better incomes and achieve a higher socioeconomic status. Thanks to second-wave feminism, married women can have credit in their own names. They are not merely lesser appendages of their husbands.

Yes, times have changed, Dirius. But not always as you imagine.

 

[waybread]

Yes and you are comparing this with what? the rest of the world? Lets go into the other nations of the world, in the same centuries, and see their attitude towards children.

Sure, the system isn't perfect and there is a lot of work to be done. But the system exists. And I also don't see the killing of the child before its born as a viable alternative.

Dirius, shall we review the stages of gestation for you? You still harbor misconceptions. An embryo and early-term developing fetus is not a child and may never become one. Miscarriages are common.

 

[waybread]

Again - if you don't think abortion is murder, then there is no reason why we can't laugh about it.

Dirius, try to stop being so silly. (That's my polite way of putting it.)

If you get hit by a bus and wind up in the hospital, that's not murder. It's still not funny. Unless you think broken bones, internal bleeding, and medical bills are hilarious.

Dirius, you've established that you believe the current lifestyle for men in your age cohort is promiscuity, not marriage.

Have you ever gotten a woman pregnant? If so, how did that work out?

When are you going to post about men's greater responsibility for birth control?

 

[waybread]

Ukpoohbear, it’s kind of off topic for the thread, but we met when I had no interest in dating, as I don’t believe in workplace romance, so it gave us time to get to know each other properly.

Having young children is stressful. I wouldn’t choose to do it with a someone unable to labor emotionally or professionally. Children need a village worth of parental quality protection for years, if it ever ends. I don’t believe any society that doesn’t fundamentally organize itself around supporting child life of all kinds has any right to say whether a woman may abort or not.

I've been married twice. The first time, for 20 years. We had two children, now adults. We shared the parenting, as both of us had flexible work hours.

My husband and I just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary.

I met my ex when we were both graduate students in the same department. I knew my husband slightly via professional meetings prior to my moving to his department. Then we were co-workers.

Yes, he's sensitive and yes, he made good money (now a good pension.)

I think the best predictors of longevity in a relationship are a shared set of values and a commitment to making the relationship work.

 

[Dirius]

Dirius, you're being silly again. You've been reading to much Jordan Peterson. Who's had an interesting life, battling addiction in eastern Europe since his best-seller book came out.

You are seriously into middle age, and are not young any more.

You cannot possibly generalize across millions of people, saying they all want the same thing.

You cannot possibly speak for young women. You are not part of their cohort, either.

You contradict yourself. Hook-up culture is not exactly young women looking for the younger version of Daddy to provide for them and the kiddies.

A big social trend that you're missing is younger people not being so hung up on prescribed gender roles. You've heard of LGBTQ people, I take it.

I agree that many people (and not just the younger ones) see no need to get married. For one thing, most young women expect to support themselves financially. Sexually, they are not saving themselves for marriage. But this contradicts your theory on what women want.

I'm in my early 30's waybread, I've used dating Apps in recent times, and met people through it. My social circle is between people in their mid 20's to early 40's. While younger people are mainly looking for a hook-up, most women in their mid 20's to early 40's usually look for a relationship in these apps - and yes they look for someone who is of equal or superior economic position. Most relationship problems are usually due to the woman doing better financially with the man, which in turn causes them to seek someone they feel is a better match. It happens a lot.

And its very common for women to look to dating someone older who is financially stable.

Unlike you, I tend to read a lot about social trends.

Typical example of feminist logic in action:

waybread:"you can't speak about women Dirius, because you are not a woman and you have no experience being a woman"

also waybread:"I've no experience in the hook-up culture, I'm not young, never used a dating app, but I can talk about it all I want."

Waybread, seriously, drop this pathetic argument line, it just makes you look silly trying to shut me down for giving an opinion. I understand you have little to no recourse in countering my argument, which is why you just try to dismiss them, but its dam funny that you try to paint yourself as someone qualified to talk about anything, and the rest of us are not.

I agree that many people (and not just the younger ones) see no need to get married. For one thing, most young women expect to support themselves financially. Sexually, they are not saving themselves for marriage. But this contradicts your theory on what women want.

Don't be so silly, Dirius. Life was a lot harder for older single women prior to the 1970s. Fewer well-paying jobs were open to them, and there used to be a big stigma on being "an old maid." Marriage was also a lot harder because there were so few grounds for divorce if a marriage became utterly disfunctional.

I read horoscopes for women (and the occasional man) who are lonely and wondering when they will meet "the one." The best advice I can give them when the chart doesn't favor romance is to be the best single they know how to be. The worst thing is to project a lot of emotional need on some hapless guy who, like you, thinks that promiscuity is his prerogative.

Thanks to second-wave feminism, women have access to educations and careers formerly closed to them. They can earn better incomes and achieve a higher socioeconomic status. Thanks to second-wave feminism, married women can have credit in their own names. They are not merely lesser appendages of their husbands.

Yes, times have changed, Dirius. But not always as you imagine.

Not really. Women are still looking to get married. Men don't. You may find the one, most men do, but even then you still struggle to make that step.

Marriage for a man today just has no benefit at all in our current society. The divorce rate is rather high, if you get divorced as a man you are likely to get the worst of it: and if you have children the woman is likely to get custody and you'd be stucked with child support, even if the woman is financially stable. You have nothing to gain, and everything to loose. So most men may choose long term relationships, but not marriage.

The dating app scene makes it very easy to date and meet multiple people, hook-up with them, but then drop any person you have no interest in. Ages ago, it was much more difficult to meet people, and most individuals usually dated within the boundaries of their social circle (at work or through friends); now days people just chat and exchange pictures.

 

[Dirius]

Yes, he's sensitive and yes, he made good money (now a good pension.)

Yeah, I'm sure you would have been head over heels for him, had he been unemployed.

Your own posts contradict you.

 

[Dirius]

Dirius, try to stop being so silly. (That's my polite way of putting it.)

If you get hit by a bus and wind up in the hospital, that's not murder. It's still not funny. Unless you think broken bones, internal bleeding, and medical bills are hilarious.

Dirius, you've established that you believe the current lifestyle for men in your age cohort is promiscuity, not marriage.

Have you ever gotten a woman pregnant? If so, how did that work out?

When are you going to post about men's greater responsibility for birth control?

I never said men are not responsible for birth control, but in the case of an unwanted pregnancy, its not our bodies facing the multiple risks you've mentioned. Women on the other hand have more to loose, whether you like it or not, which is the reason they have to be more careful regarding sex.

A woman having unprotected sex with a random stranger in a disco bathroom, someone she is never probably going to see again, has much more to loose than him.

 

[david starling]

Dirius, try to stop being so silly. (That's my polite way of putting it.)

If you get hit by a bus and wind up in the hospital, that's not murder. It's still not funny. Unless you think broken bones, internal bleeding, and medical bills are hilarious.

Dirius, you've established that you believe the current lifestyle for men in your age cohort is promiscuity, not marriage.

Have you ever gotten a woman pregnant? If so, how did that work out?

When are you going to post about men's greater responsibility for birth control?

Women's contraceptive methods are more costly, and require medical supervision.

Those who are firmly against abortion should be at the forefront of helping economically disadvantaged women to be able to afford them, and encouraging the prevention of unwanted pregnancy.

They should also be in favor of sex education for even very young teenagers, with an emphasis on how to avoid pregnancy.

Unfortunately, this is usually not the case.

Females are much better off protecting themselves from an unwanted pregnancy, instead of relying on the man to do that for them.

Condoms are needed to stop the spread of STDs. That's really the man's job.