2012 is Coming and Any Real Astrologer Can Admit This.

[Momma's Kumquat]

I'd like to make a couple points on this discussion, some will be made with the help of quotes.

1. "People always think something's all true."

2. If Athene considers herself so deeply intelligent and gifted, she'd do well to remember that the truly intelligent never stop learning. You shouldn't force your argument down someone's throat while simultaneously ignoring theirs. You have thus far given no real astrological evidence that points to the end of the world and your argument that pluto is concealing it in the 2012 natal chart is dubiously convenient...

"Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand."

3. In regards to Athene's natal chart, her self image as an intellectual is indicitive of the moon neptune combination in the third.
You NEED to feel intelligent because that's what the moon in the third demands, and the conjunction with neptune indicates you might be willing to fool yourself for your own emotional wellbeing. You should be careful of believing too blindly in things.

I also happened to notice that uranus hadn't even left pisces when the earthquake occurred.

I consider myself an intelligent person (I could've joined mensa at age 11) and in my opinion, the only real knowledge is the knowledge that you know nothing. If the end of the world happens in 2012 then it will be that.

THE END OF THE WORLD.

What good is food and money if there's no world? You won't even be here to eat it or spend it and there will be nothing to miss because it will all be gone.

You may aswell have written a thread saying, "YOU MIGHT DIE TOMORROW! ENJOY TODAY"

 

[bittermoon]

Something I live by these days which really works well for me is this:

If something is troubling you... Can you do something about it? If yes, then do. If no, then be.

I seriously do not care if the world is going to end today, tomorrow, in 2012 or a million years from now. What a waste of time and energy. I make the most of today and tomorrow I will do the same.

 

[Neptune Rising]

I have read alot of the different theories, to sum them all up, who knows... And if we knew, what could we do to change things. I think alot of people have turned to spirituality as a way to save themselves, but is this true spirituality and will it last beyond the Christmas 2012 - its a shame it if doesn't but I'm sure all of this is here to teach us something about ourselves.

If we think we can influence global events, then the only conscious (and unconscious) power strong enough to do this is love. Not ego, not hate, not war. Its only when we are truly happy in ourselves and accept ourselves that the external changes, otherwise, we continue to get reflected what we have inside somehow in some way.

NR

 

[tikana]

hey all

for those who think the end of the world coming, have you gotten your coffins reserved yet?



Momma's Kumquat and BitterMoon, you are right actually. "YOU MIGHT DIE TOMORROW! ENJOY TODAY" ''

cheers
T

 

[hazelrah]

Who's gonna bury all the undertakers? ... Just asking ...

 

[tikana]

no need ... they have to dig up their own graves .. place the coffins there and sleep on the night of Dec 21st. I hear memory mattresses fit in very nicely into the the coffins

 

[waybread]

Posters might be interested in this article by a NASA scientist:
www.skeptic.com/reading_room/2012-and-counting/

Note that Skeptic is no friend of astrology. However most of the "evidence" for apocalypse in 2012 refers to astronomical events.

The reasoning of the pro-doomsday crowd is something especially difficult for scientists to deal with. If they call a hoax a hoax, they are accused of lying.

Apparently no scientific evidence is good enough to convince the doomsayers that their reasoning is flawed; while no conspiracy theory, no matter how far-fetched, is sufficiently improbable to be discarded.

 

[Svencanz]

Athenegoddess, you're a hoot...

"Eventually our world will be put to rest, but I'm here to warn you, and any real astrologer would, 2012 is the end of us."

If we're all going to die, what is the point of warning us?
Wouldn't it be better if we spent our remaining days in our usual carefree ways?

You're the best thing that has happened on this forum in a long time.

Sven
PS - and by the way, astrology was not invented. It was discovered.

 

[tikana]

Sven

she is warning so we can send our own obituaries to the newspaper the day before

T

 

[Svencanz]

Tik,

[deleted insulting comment - Moderator]
Don't you realise it has to be the day BEFORE the day before, otherwise there's no one to deliver the papers. Get your scheduling right.

S

 

[tikana]

Duuude..


pleaaaase . even 2 days before no one will read it cause they will be busy submitting their own obituaries HOPING that someone will read it!

Get YOUR scheduling right

 

[Svencanz]

Besides,

I don't see what the problem of athenegoddess' thread title is.
Have you actually read the title?

"2012 is Coming and Any Real Astrologer Can Admit This"

Yep, I don't need to consult my Solar Fire to establish that 2012 is coming. It is the year after 2011. Before that it was 2010. This happened to be last year.

It's quite a normal progression of numbers. Most people are OK with it.

S

 

[Svencanz]

Tik,

Sheisse - you got me there. This is more serious than I imagined.

S

 

[tikana]

WHAT are you talking about?

Ppl are rambling about Dec 21 2012 (world is coming to the end)... personally, i think NOTHING absolutely NOTHING will happen. I explained the mayan calendar on another thread with REFERENCES from legit sources on why the MAYANs ended the calendar that day but appearantly, ppl are more fascinated with mass hysteria (as usual.. cant make blind sheep see ...)

 

[waybread]

Actually, there is a conspiracy at work. But it isn't government officials. It is Hollywood hoping to sell more theatre tickets, and various entrepreneurs selling 2012 survival kits.

When in doubt, follow the money.

 

[tikana]

supply and demand - simple

psychos demand for this psychosis
hollywood supplies the product.

no conspiracy whatsoever

T

 

[Caprising]

Being an older guy, I'm used to the doomsday senarios being put forward, I used to feel fear when I was young, now I just wonder who's behind the shock horror stories! Athene, some more study of the astrological placements that a large number of us share will probably help explain the saturn/neptune "impending sense of doom" that we with trying aspects between these two planets have to deal with on occasions. If the moon is involved with this duo then you will really "feel it" , especially when progressions and transits trigger these thought patterns/emotional stirrings. After 47 years of feeling the cyclic surges of doom aproaching I am thankful that I discovered an astrological explanation (well I didn't discover it, but found it on another website). Interestingly people with a.d.h.d. often report the doomed feeling when questioned about how they feel, (yes I have been diagnosed with a.d.h.d.). Anyway, good luck with your astrological studies, you certainly have created some activity on the boards!

 

[tikana]

i have ADD and ADHD + dyslexia tiny bit .. no no incoming doomed feelings here... the world has been doomed since a human showed up...

 

[Mark]

Wow, I'm gone for a few days and look at what has happened in my absence. This thread! I'll try to approach this matter in the most objective manner possible, siding only with what I know to be true. Let's try to inject a some fact into this discussion.

Firstly, subjective experiences only matter in as much as they impact our objective selves. If my thoughts cause me to act in a novel way that changes some quality about me, then my thought has caused an objective change in the world. If it does not, then the thought was nothing but a passing breeze with no lasting effect. The same applies to feelings and beliefs. If they change what you are and thereby change something in the world (given that you are in the world), then they are manifest and real. If there is no change, then your thoughts, feelings, and beliefs are all potentialities that were never realised. All this just says that what you think, what you feel, and what you believe don't matter unless something comes from them.

The best way to describe this process (currently) is by use of quantum physics. It is well known to quantum physicists that wave functions (purely potential quantum entities) collapse into particles of a set state (concrete objects) upon human observation. This has been proven time and time again through mathematics and experimentation, but even scientists are having a hard time reconciling it. It is awareness that gives rise to order in the Universe. The mechanical, Newtonian universe is presumed to always tend toward chaos, perpetuating the idea that there was a point of creation and everything afterward is just the explosion playing out itself. The fact is that becoming aware of waves increases order by collapsing them into photons, the building-blocks of matter. As far as I am aware, nothing other than awareness is known to increase order (or "create"). Take note that awareness is more fundamental than thought, feeling, or any other such thing. This kind of awareness might be thought of as a state of pure observation.

This is the way that we interact with our living Universe. Directed awareness builds. Every moment of every day, you are building something. You are creating constantly because we all are creative by nature. Every single day, you create what you are, which determines what you may become, which is a small part of a much bigger world. Collectively, we create our own reality, not just our own perception of it. You can't "switch off" this process. That is why it is crucially important that all come to understand that decisions matter and that we are our brother's keeper.

There are changes happening on the individual level, the global level, and every other level. The year 2012 has something to do with a spiritual awakening being spread across the globe. The phrase "spiritual awakening" might mean many things, so I will be more specific. The "awakening" is the realisation that we do not have to do anything or become anything. No relationships have to be built and no commands have to be given. The awakening is the realisation that we already have a relationship with the Universe. Understanding and balancing this relationship happens through pure observation, which IS creation. All are One.

Now, as to 2012, there is not going to be any significant "galactic alignment." The time of the closest conjunction between the Sun and the Sagittarius A-star (SgrA*, galactic centre) will be ~1:05pm Dec 18. At this time, the SgrA* will be ~5.6° South of the ecliptic, meaning that the alignment will be about as close in 2012 as it will be in 2011 or 2013. The best arguments I've heard for major changes in and after 2012 have to do with rare alignments of Venus which WILL happen in 2012.

The Mayans should not be considered a people any greater than those other cultures around them. The calendar round and the long count calendars were not developed by the Mayans, rather by preceeding cultures which spread the calendric system around the whole region. Some scholars prefer to call it the "Mesoamerican Calendar," because it wasn't a Mayan invention. Further, the Mayans and their neighbours were the degenerated and mixed descendants of the spiritually advanced people who originated the information. I could say the same things of the Sumerians. The knowledge of astrology and other such sciences is far, FAR older than either the Mayans or Sumerians.

I welcome all commentary and criticism to the above. I prefer open discussion, but we must remember that we are all trying to describe the same Truth. We will get much farther together than individually. That, after all, is the interpreted essence of the "spiritual awakening."

P.S. Have you ever noticed that whenever you hear the word "sheeple," it's always "you sheeple." I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "we sheeple" or "us sheeple."

 

[waybread]

P.S. Have you ever noticed that whenever you hear the word "sheeple," it's always "you sheeple." I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "we sheeple" or "us sheeple."

Right, Mark. or that the fickle flying finger of fate usually points to others, deemed to be less enlightened than the poster.

I am re-reading one of Jane Robert's Seth books just now. Are you familiar with them? Seth says much the same thing as your main points.

I do think there is such a thing as mass hallucination and mass hysteria. Remember the old Orson Welles's "War of the World" panic? Child crusades? The rise of the Nazi party? Millennial and genocidal movements of various kinds?

What bothers me is that if enough people start believing in doomsday scenarios and you guys are right, then what?

Presumably, opposing parties with stronger beliefs might prevail. It is hard to say how this all works out on the level of millions of people.

For people who believe in God as a beneficent creator, there are other sorts of logical problems with the Mayan calendar apocalypse scenario.