Do we have relationship potential (with my interpretation)

[unteruber]

I am casting a horary chart and trying my hands at interpreting using Dr Farr's Ankara and usual horary techniques. Will appreciate any feedback.

First usual horary -

1- Pisces ascendant ruled by Jupiter in 2th house (gemini)
2- 7th house Virgo ruler mercury in the 6th house (leo)
3- I am in her 9th house (foreign matters, we are in different countries)
4- there is a sextile between mercury and jupiter
5- my co-signifactor moon in the 7th house
6- saturn in the 7th house (making entire situation difficult, if not impossible since I am the querent and it is a relationship question)
6.1.- saturn in libra is exalted giving benefic effects
7- mercury and jupiter have a mutual reception by triplicity
8- moon is flowing towards mercury
9- mercury is flowing towards jupiter
10- jupiter is flowing away from mercury

the overall scenario gives out a positive hue . I am not sure how to cobble this together in a better narrative.


Dr Farr's technique (using whole house system) -

MLOM (men's lot of marriage, asc+venus-saturn) which falls on 6 degree Scorpio (the questied has a Scorpio moon and ascendant in her natal chart), this is an elevated degree = + testimony.

1- Asc in pisces ruled by Jupiter
2- 7th house ruler mercury
3- applying sextile between mercury and jupiter = + testimony
4- moon is flowing towards mercury = + testimony
5- mercury is flowing towards jupiter = + testimony
6- jupiter is flowing away from mercury = - testimony
7- moon is in a pitted degree (virgo 15) = - testimony

overall = 4+ testimonies 2- testimonies = 2+

Also none of the signifactors, jupiter and mercury, are not in the pitted degrees .

 

[dr. farr]

A couple of observations:
Jupiter is NOT flowing away from Mercury, Jupiter is direct in motion, so Mercury is flowing BY RETROGRADE back toward Jupiter; also Moon is flowing away from both significators (Mercury and Jupiter): so we have +2 testimonies (Mercury flow to Jupiter, also applying sextile from Mercury to Jupiter) and -2 testimonies (Moon in a pit, and Moon flowing away from both significators) = net neutral (I would not count the Moon in the 7th as a + per se because of its pitted situation)
Use of the Lot of Marriage (ascendant+cusp of 7th - venus) as indicative of potential long term relationship prospects, I think would be needed to make a better determination of possibilities in this chart.

 

[unteruber]

Cusp of 7th house in this case will be mercury in leo 10 deg 11 min, (7th house being in Virgo) ?

ok so i am asc - pisces 12 deg
7th house cusp (ruler mercury in 10 deg 11min leo)
venus - 17 deg 27 min gemini

Giving me LOM 4 deg 44 min Taurus.

----------

If I take 7th house cusp (0 deg virgo) LOM comes out to be 24 deg 33 min Taurus.

Now?

 

[dr. farr]

Using Lots in whole sign, the sensitive degree of the relevant house is used in the formula (the sensitive degrees of whole sign houses is the same as the degree of the ascendant) So, 7th whole sign house "cusp" (sensitive point) = 12 Virgo: Lot of Marriage then = Pisces 12 (342) + Virgo 12 (162) - Venus @ 17 Gemini (77) (since the result is greater than 360 we must subtract the circle of the zodiac, ie, 360, from this) = 67, so the Lot of Marriage falls @ 7 Gemini in the horary chart (significator is Mercury)

 

[unteruber]

Thanks Dr Farr. Now since LOM comes out to be at 7 deg Gemini (my natal asc is at 3deg59min gemini) I checked that the degree is pitted or not, which it is not, this degree is also not elevated.

LOM falls in the 4th whole sign house = (+ since its angular like 10th? )
LOM is conjunct with Jupiter (my signifactor) = + testimony
LOM ruler mercury = her co-sginifactor = + testimony
LOM significator mercury flows toward querent (jupiter) = +testimony
LOM signifactor also applies to conjunction with querent (jupiter) = + testimony
Moon (querent's co-signifactor) flows away from LOM signifactor = -ve testimony

 

[dr. farr]

Thanks Dr Farr. Now since LOM comes out to be at 7 deg Gemini (my natal asc is at 3deg59min gemini) I checked that the degree is pitted or not, which it is not, this degree is also not elevated.

LOM falls in the 4th whole sign house = (+ since its angular like 10th? )
RIGHT + TESTIMONY

LOM is conjunct with Jupiter (my signifactor) = + testimony
RIGHT + TESTIMONY

LOM ruler mercury = her co-sginifactor = + testimony
IT IS HER (QUESITED) SIGNIFICATOR (NOT CO-SIGNIFICATOR) YES, + TESTIMONY

LOM significator mercury flows toward querent (jupiter) = +testimony
RIGHT (FLOWS TOWARD JUPITER VIA RETROGRADE) = + TESTIMONY

LOM signifactor also applies to conjunction with querent (jupiter) = + testimony
YOU ALREADY COUNTED THIS CONJUNCTION, ABOVE

Moon (querent's co-signifactor) flows away from LOM signifactor = -ve testimony
RIGHT, AND ALSO AWAY FROM THE LOM ITSELF = - TESTIMONY

LOM IS SIGN CONJUNCT THE SN = - TESTIMONY

SO, NET LOM TESTIMONIES ARE +2

Adding this to the other considerations of the chart mentioned a couple of posts earlier, net testimonies in this chart are +2, which gives a generally favorable (or "yes") answer to this question (by the Primary Ankara horary method)

 

[unteruber]

This is a brilliant exercise in learning how to use Primary Ankara method. Thanks Dr. Farr. Will keep you posted of the results.

 

[Aquarius358]

As agreed in the chat room, here's my take on your chart. By the way, I don't use whole sign houses ... I've used Regiomontanus so ... Jupiter is in my 3rd and Mars is not in the 7th. Here goes:

1 ruler Jupiter and 7 ruler Mercury are in a close applying aspect, which is a positive indicator that this relationship will come to something - but it’s important to be aware that the strong reception by one party, L7, is not reciprocated by L1. Nor does the Moon reciprocate with reception to match Mercury’s of Moon.

It’s true that Mercury is currently v. poorly dignified (minus 6) and will move away when she goes direct and out from under the Sun’s beams - away from Jupiter - about 8 or 9 August. Happily, Mercury and Jupiter’s sextile does perfect on 22 August and Mercury is in much better condition by then, also. So that’s good news.

Jupiter? He’s in his Detriment but he’s nevertheless accidentally and essentially dignified (plus 15) and therefore has a lot of dignity. Jupiter being the heavier planet means that the control over this relationship is in your hands.

The other party is definitely interested - Mercury not only makes the aspect applying to you but Mercury receives Moon by Sign and Exaltation AND Mercury also receives Jupiter by Sign and Triplicity. So there’s lots of reception by the other person of you, but you don’t seem to respond with such strong reception because Jupiter receives Mercury by Triplicity only - not exactly ‘mutual reception’ to give this the ‘thumbs up’ with complete and absolute assurance. Are you afraid of commitment perhaps? Feeling cautious? I’m left wondering what you want from this relationship - ? - Jupiter’s antiscion is at 21 Cancer in the 5th of ‘love affairs.’ Moon also rules the 5th.

Sun receives Mercury, though, by Sign - so this makes up a little for Jupiter’s absence of intense affection/strong reception.

And anyway, Bonatti says that in questions of this type that a conjunction, sextile or trine aspect between L1 and L7 even without reception means perfection : ie, means the relationship will come to be.

I wondered if Mercury having just separated from Mars in the 7th might indicate some other young man in her life, but nothing comes of that when Mercury goes direct, so no worries there.

Moon rules the 5th of ‘love affairs’ - and Moon’s only aspect is to square Venus, ruler of 2nd and also co-ruler of the 7th. Signs on the angles are not fixed but in common signs plus both L1 and L7 are in cadent houses so we can’t guarantee absolute long-l-o-n-g-term. However, Jupiter is the stronger of the two significators for you - Moon & L1 - and Jupiter has the aspect being made to him and is strong. Also, the Sun is very strong in this chart which, Bonatti says, means/confirms you are strong in this relationship and will dominate.

Very happy for you!
Maggie_______

 

[unteruber]

Hi Maggie,

thank you so much for your extensive reply. I wrote an quick reply couple of days back but deleted it in the hopes of expressing my thoughts better, so here is the try -

given some days have passed and the picture has cleared to some extent, I think your reading is quite correct. She seems to be interested. We have been talking, had some super long intense phone calls.

But as you pointed out, I am definitely cautious; it is not fear of commitment but fear of commitment with the person who is not right for me. As we all know it is better to dodge the bullet than nurse the exit wound , whilst I am looking for a genuine relationship, I am just not sure if she shares the same ideals of a genuine relationship as me. You see in synastry her neptune is in my 7th house (my own neptune is in the 7th house of my natal chart) besides her saturn and uranus oppose my moon. Apart from these worrisome aspects rest of the synastry chart looks divine.

A quick question - what else can be said about her from the horary, for example can we say that she has a more mercurial character given her signifactor?

Thanks so much again.

As agreed in the chat room, here's my take on your chart. By the way, I don't use whole sign houses ... I've used Regiomontanus so ... Jupiter is in my 3rd and Mars is not in the 7th. Here goes:

1 ruler Jupiter and 7 ruler Mercury are in a close applying aspect, which is a positive indicator that this relationship will come to something - but it’s important to be aware that the strong reception by one party, L7, is not reciprocated by L1. Nor does the Moon reciprocate with reception to match Mercury’s of Moon.

It’s true that Mercury is currently v. poorly dignified (minus 6) and will move away when she goes direct and out from under the Sun’s beams - away from Jupiter - about 8 or 9 August. Happily, Mercury and Jupiter’s sextile does perfect on 22 August and Mercury is in much better condition by then, also. So that’s good news.

Jupiter? He’s in his Detriment but he’s nevertheless accidentally and essentially dignified (plus 15) and therefore has a lot of dignity. Jupiter being the heavier planet means that the control over this relationship is in your hands.

The other party is definitely interested - Mercury not only makes the aspect applying to you but Mercury receives Moon by Sign and Exaltation AND Mercury also receives Jupiter by Sign and Triplicity. So there’s lots of reception by the other person of you, but you don’t seem to respond with such strong reception because Jupiter receives Mercury by Triplicity only - not exactly ‘mutual reception’ to give this the ‘thumbs up’ with complete and absolute assurance. Are you afraid of commitment perhaps? Feeling cautious? I’m left wondering what you want from this relationship - ? - Jupiter’s antiscion is at 21 Cancer in the 5th of ‘love affairs.’ Moon also rules the 5th.

Sun receives Mercury, though, by Sign - so this makes up a little for Jupiter’s absence of intense affection/strong reception.

And anyway, Bonatti says that in questions of this type that a conjunction, sextile or trine aspect between L1 and L7 even without reception means perfection : ie, means the relationship will come to be.

I wondered if Mercury having just separated from Mars in the 7th might indicate some other young man in her life, but nothing comes of that when Mercury goes direct, so no worries there.

Moon rules the 5th of ‘love affairs’ - and Moon’s only aspect is to square Venus, ruler of 2nd and also co-ruler of the 7th. Signs on the angles are not fixed but in common signs plus both L1 and L7 are in cadent houses so we can’t guarantee absolute long-l-o-n-g-term. However, Jupiter is the stronger of the two significators for you - Moon & L1 - and Jupiter has the aspect being made to him and is strong. Also, the Sun is very strong in this chart which, Bonatti says, means/confirms you are strong in this relationship and will dominate.

Very happy for you!
Maggie_______

 

[Aquarius358]

Hi Maggie,
thank you so much for your extensive reply. I wrote an quick reply couple of days back but deleted it in the hopes of expressing my thoughts better, so here is the try -
given some days have passed and the picture has cleared to some extent, I think your reading is quite correct. She seems to be interested. We have been talking, had some super long intense phone calls.
But as you pointed out, I am definitely cautious; it is not fear of commitment but fear of commitment with the person who is not right for me. As we all know it is better to dodge the bullet than nurse the exit wound , whilst I am looking for a genuine relationship, I am just not sure if she shares the same ideals of a genuine relationship as me. You see in synastry her neptune is in my 7th house (my own neptune is in the 7th house of my natal chart) besides her saturn and uranus oppose my moon. Apart from these worrisome aspects rest of the synastry chart looks divine.
A quick question - what else can be said about her from the horary, for example can we say that she has a more mercurial character given her signifactor?
Thanks so much again.

Hello again Unter,
I can see why you feel Neptune is a bit of a worry from your point of view, & concerning you (not so much the partner.) Looked at as a negative (ie planet opposing Asc), it includes stuff like gullibility, disillusionment, hypersensitivity, uncertainty in relationships, self undoing … doesn't it … but viewed as a positive and from the other's (7th House) point of view, it shows understanding, compassion, romantic journeys, travel abroad, dreaming, spiritual or mystical experiences … so your Neptune in your natal 7th could be said to include travel abroad for romantic journeys, don't you think?

You ask about her Mercury in the horary : well, that would describe someone young, very willingly communicative, flexible, probably quick witted ... and possibly tricky - hard to pin down, maybe? Her planet in Leo also describes her - which is of course solid and fixed and could indicate a certain doggedness which could be a good thing and would, in this case, offset some of the 'quicksilver'-y nature of Mercury. It's not good that Mercury is in the 6th which could indicate some low level sort of sorrow in her life perhaps, or even ill health.

I appreciate you're forming an opinion that she maybe doesn't have the same ideals as you ... Why? Just because your natal Neptune is in 7th? Where is her Jupiter superimposed on your natal chart? Where is yours on hers?

As for your natal Moon opposing her natal Saturn and Uranus ... well, in all seriousness I don't think it's possible to have everything in perfect synastry in two people's charts, is it. Some cross-referencing / harmony of planets ruling Ascendants, Moons and Suns is a good basis on which to work at things in a personal relationship. The rest can be negotiated or worked at as you go along.

You mentioned you were being cautious ... I think that's always wise ... but, on the other hand, I would argue that unless you take a few risks in life, it does get to be pretty boring doesn't it?

Just off astrology for a moment : when you speak about sharing the same ideals as someone else ... I think that comes with time and knowledge of each other, don't you? You can only find out another's principles, morals, ethics, relationship-expectations when you talk to them at length and there has to be a healthy degree of intimacy and trust already established between you for this to be honest and upfront. I mean, you can't ask a virtual stranger, hey, what do you expect from a relationship? - or can you?! Perhaps with more subtlety than that. Talking about previous relationships is a way into this ... but maybe this is not your thing ...

Have you had a look at both your Solar Return charts for this year? That could be helpful, too. If there's a focus on 7th House matters for both of you, or if Part of Marriage dispositors are in harmonious places, that could indicate this is the right year for a good relationship for you … say, if your natal Venus is in the SR 9th of travel abroad … that might be enough to prompt you to go ahead with this relationship, remembering that you are in control (taken from the horary chart.) Hope this helps a bit.
Cheers,
Maggie._______

 

[unteruber]

Hi Maggie,

thank you so much for your comment. It is not only astrologically quite astute but also has much of the life wisdom. I read it several times, specially the lines about intimacy and closeness. I cannot express how glad and grateful I felt reading those lines, no need to say I am lucky to bump into a kind and wise soul such as yourself.

Hello again Unter,
I can see why you feel Neptune is a bit of a worry from your point of view, & concerning you (not so much the partner.) Looked at as a negative (ie planet opposing Asc), it includes stuff like gullibility, disillusionment, hypersensitivity, uncertainty in relationships, self undoing … doesn't it … but viewed as a positive and from the other's (7th House) point of view, it shows understanding, compassion, romantic journeys, travel abroad, dreaming, spiritual or mystical experiences … so your Neptune in your natal 7th could be said to include travel abroad for romantic journeys, don't you think?

I agree, from a positive perspective it indeed can be read as a spiritual connection. In my previous two relations I have had the exact same synastry configuration and they both ended quite awfully for me. I don't want to act overcautious but I also don't want repreating the stale mistakes by neglecting the lessons of the past.

You ask about her Mercury in the horary : well, that would describe someone young, very willingly communicative, flexible, probably quick witted ... and possibly tricky - hard to pin down, maybe? Her planet in Leo also describes her - which is of course solid and fixed and could indicate a certain doggedness which could be a good thing and would, in this case, offset some of the 'quicksilver'-y nature of Mercury. It's not good that Mercury is in the 6th which could indicate some low level sort of sorrow in her life perhaps, or even ill health.

thanks. yes this is absolutely spot on.

I appreciate you're forming an opinion that she maybe doesn't have the same ideals as you ... Why? Just because your natal Neptune is in 7th? Where is her Jupiter superimposed on your natal chart? Where is yours on hers?

not merely because of the neptune [my natal and her neptune in my 7th house]. but because of our previous conversations. one of her personality aspect that i really like is her candidness, she is open about her past and her present. and from what she has told me about her past, i can safely say that she never had a serious relationship; a lot of "falling in-love" experiences, casual sex, etc. but not a stable serious relationship. this has to do with her first love, the person she deeply loved and who, one fine day summarily announced that he is too young to settle down and wants to experiment.. and broke up with her. i don't think that she has analysed [or maybe she has] the effect this terrible and callous break-up had on her, which led her to put up and steel her defenses in the form of being completely non-committal.

as far as i am concerned i do understand that human relationships are not stagnant and they evolve as people evolve over time. some times we evolve together, other times we take different trajectories [however painful that parting might be]. still, getting into any relation with a defensive pre-conception that it will not last, is priming oneself for its eventual demise. so, when she said that she doesn;t see herself in a super-long-term relation it simply prompts me to think either she is not serious about relationships, or her requirements of relationship are quite different from mine or she is psychologically/emotionally not at a place where we synch. in either case our relationship ideals, at the moment, seem quite far apart.

As for your natal Moon opposing her natal Saturn and Uranus ... well, in all seriousness I don't think it's possible to have everything in perfect synastry in two people's charts, is it. Some cross-referencing / harmony of planets ruling Ascendants, Moons and Suns is a good basis on which to work at things in a personal relationship. The rest can be negotiated or worked at as you go along.

having a taurean moon, i definitely want to build a secure base-camp. she has a scorpian moon. my descendant makes a tight conjunction with her sun. her descendant is in close conjunction with my moon. my jupiter in her 5th house. her jupiter in my 11th house. her sun and mercury in my 7th house. her venus and pluto in my 5th house. my sun in her 6th house, my moon, ascendant and mercury in her 7th house.

i have pm'ed you the birth-details in case you want to look at it.

Just off astrology for a moment : when you speak about sharing the same ideals as someone else ... I think that comes with time and knowledge of each other, don't you? You can only find out another's principles, morals, ethics, relationship-expectations when you talk to them at length and there has to be a healthy degree of intimacy and trust already established between you for this to be honest and upfront. I mean, you can't ask a virtual stranger, hey, what do you expect from a relationship? - or can you?! Perhaps with more subtlety than that. Talking about previous relationships is a way into this ... but maybe this is not your thing ...

this is a very wise suggestion. we have spoken about past relations as I mentioned earlier.

Have you had a look at both your Solar Return charts for this year? That could be helpful, too. If there's a focus on 7th House matters for both of you, or if Part of Marriage dispositors are in harmonious places, that could indicate this is the right year for a good relationship for you … say, if your natal Venus is in the SR 9th of travel abroad … that might be enough to prompt you to go ahead with this relationship, remembering that you are in control (taken from the horary chart.) Hope this helps a bit.
Cheers,
Maggie._______

In the recent SR my venus is in the 5th house and her's too is in the 5th house. her SR jupiter is in the 9th house.


Again, thank you so much Maggie for you time and kindness.