Ukraine Invasion discussion thread.

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Zelensky, in defending the Sovereignty of the Ukraine, is on the side of FREEDOM.

Putin, by attempting to crush the Independence of the Ukraine, stands for OPPRESSION.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is seen an attempt to get back it's former and historic colonies...did the British do that with their former colonies (the USA)? Knowing world history: the pro-British monarchist loyalists migrated to settle in Canada. And Russia's adage "we're Slavic brothers to Ukraine" when the other felt threatened like a dysfunctional family relationship from a reality or a talk show.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Trump once again gains the spotlight, for acting like a class "A" Jerk! Making fun of Russians bombing Ukraine.


Real funny?.....not one shred of a moral conscience, nor is he even capable of putting himself in another's shoes.
IF anyone is even interested in this jerk's words - there is a link here, which gives his whole "speech":





Former President Donald Trump on Saturday floated a horrifying scenario during a speech to some 250 elite Republican donors: He said the U.S. could bomb Russia with jets disguised with Chinese flags, then sit back and watch those nations go to war.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/trump-floats-idea-u-bomb-003349861.html




Trump also praised North Korean leader Kim Jong Un during his speech, calling the dictator “seriously tough” and saying his top generals and aides “cower” before him.
“His people were sitting at attention,” Trump recalled. “I looked at my people and said, ’I want my people to act like that.’” Again, the audience laughed.


Trump also falsely claimed, yet again, that he won the 2020 presidential election, according to both CBS and the Post.
Republican donors may have been chuckling about Trump’s speech, but critics on Twitter were not.
 

blackbery

Well-known member
K, for those too lazy to open a history book or do any research but merely parrot out what the fake news regurgitate, here's a doc on Ukraine so you don't have to do any work at all except watch & listen & get factual info.:tongue::tongue::tongue:

Might be interesting to hear the truth about the conflict for the 1st time in your sheltered lives & learn about the US 'regime changes' & colour revolutions; they've done it all over the world.:whistling::whistling::whistling:



OLIVER STONES RECENTLY BANNED MOVIE. "UKRAINE ON FIRE"


https://www.bitchute.com/video/ojxAboKHI1UF/
 

waybread

Well-known member
And what do you think those banks and hedge funds do with their money? Save them in vaults? No, they invest them, duh. Cutting off the swift banking system means some russian companies are unable to repay their loans, which is devastating to European banks and loaners, which in turn can make the EU financial system collapse. Oil prices have skyrocketed, and these will have an impact in every sector of the economy.

Dirius, for what in your life are you willing to take a stand? Or to use a different metaphor, for what would you go to the mat?

I sense fear and a lack of will in your posts.

You know the metaphors of "hand-wringing" and "pearl clutching."

Unfortunately, Dirius, investment may not mean building manufacturing plants and hiring new workers right where you'd like to have them. It may mean "saving" funds electronically. Banks are required to hold a minimum amount of assets. It may mean buying up real estate. It may mean lending money it out at interest. Municipal bonds may be used to fund construction projects that hire people for the duration of the project only. Government bonds and Treasury notes are used to pay off debt, and so on.

Everyone will feel the pinch of sanctions. The calculus is that they will hit Russia harder and quicker, to the point where Putin backs off Ukraine. Since a lot of Russian companies are owned by fabulously wealthy oligarchs, they probably can keep their businesses afloat for a while. My hope is that they will decide Putin just isn't worth it.

But the issue is that Russia is not the EU. Do you think Putin cares about protestors or people suffering because of the economy? He does not, because he came in to power in corrupted elections, he does not respond to the people of Russia. But can western leaders say the same thing? What happens when protests erupt in France, Germany, GB, etc?

I don't think Putin cares an iota about protestors, other than muzzling the press so that Russians don't learn about them. Protests in Europe so far have been overwhelmingly pro-Ukraine.

These sanctions will make the western financial system collapse if prolonged and clearly Russia isn't even slowing down with the invasion. Brandon truly missed the mark here, and all he is doing is just hurting the american economy.

The plan is that they won't be prolonged because Russia will cave in first.

So far as the Canadian economy goes, gas in my little town went from $1.49/liter to $1.69/liter in a couple of weeks. I would willingly drive less and pay more if it means that Putin gets the h*ll out of Ukraine.
 

blackbery

Well-known member
Russia Russia Russia!:lol::lol::lol:

Putin has nearly completed his mission, has totally destroyed or de-activated the biolabs, surrounded the majority of Ukranian nazi military & done it all with less than 50,000 troops, no carpet bombing like what the US do & kept the Ukraine nationalists from further genocide of the Russo-Ukrainians in eastern Ukraine (they've killed 15,000 since 2015 & no crocodile tears or fake compassion from the fake news.

At each point, Putin has allowed civilians to leave, giving them corridors of safety. He's asked for peace talks to end the conflict once NATO/EU are no longer in the picture to take control of Ukraine & threaten Mother Russia.
He could have taken over the country in a week with 150,000 troops & massive non-strategic bombing. But that's not his goal.

Despite the propaganda & lies, there is absolutely no way Ukraine, with 1/000 of the military of Russia, can ever win a war with Russia.
Zelensky is either a fool or a sociopath to encourage people to come from other countries to fight. They will be cannon fodder. Putting delusions of victory in their heads to make them kill themselves is pathalogical on his part.

But I'm relieved to know that no deadly pathogens can be released from the ukraine labs & that the nazi hold on the country is being exposed.



Putin, by attempting to crush the Independence of the Ukraine, stands for OPPRESSION.
 

blackbery

Well-known member
“For years now, Russia has made verifiable claims that the U.S. is running secret biological weapons labs around their borders. While western media now claims this to be misinformation, back in 2013 they reported on it. While the U.S. and “murder incorporated” have been waging illegal wars all across the world in the name of democracy, Russia has been quietly selling energy and minding their own business. And according to National Geographic, this was the reason that the Pentagon was building bio weapons labs in the first place. Because Russia was entirely quiet on the subject, and the U.S. wanted to get ahead of them. The initial bio lab in Kazakhstan was built by the U.S. for $100 million to store high risk diseases such as plague and anthrax, and was hoping to attract scientists who might otherwise create bio weapons of mass destruction for someone else.



RUSSIA MADE VERIFIABLE CLAIMS THAT U.S. RUNNING SECRET BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS LABS AROUND THEIR BORDERS


https://www.bitchute.com/video/yFfVAtndIPIh/
 

waybread

Well-known member
Chia, try to keep the word "hate" of it, and look at the situation in cool, rational terms. Let's pay attention to facts.

The hard right already divided the US badly, over their extreme denunciations of Democrats, and their promotion of the falsehood that Trump actually won the 2020 election.

True, we use the term "Russia" loosely, when really the focus should be on the Russian dictator, Vladimir Putin; not on the entire population of Russia.

"We" were never "at war with the Middle East before," as you put it. The Middle East is a vast territory of many different nations, including Israel. The US was at war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria.

Just to remind you, Vladimir Putin ordered his troops invade Ukraine on thin pretexts. He's blowing up residential areas and bombing corridors where moms and little kids are attempting to flee the violence.

But sure. Let's have western liberals and conservatives kiss and make up. Maybe then we could get some bi-partisan work accomplished.

Just to remind you, the US is part of the NATO alliance, which has a "one for all and all for one" obligation. Some of these countries border Russia or Ukraine and are understandably alarmed about Putin's war against Ukraine, for fear they'll be next. A number of NATO countries were part of the former USSR. They declared their independence with the fall of the old USSR in 1991, and chose to align with NAT), not Russia.

Just out of curiosity, who are "the hidden (cowardly) powers" who are running the planet?

If you mean China, they're pretty up front about it.

I was talking to a group of people this morning, and one of them made a good point. Turning Russia into a bad guy is like doing the 2 minutes hate thing in 1984. Finding whomever to direct our hate towards, which is a really effective tool to distract the masses from what the powers behind the scenes don't want us to focus on while they secretly roll it out. It's also the same as how Oceania would declare that we're either at war with Eastasia or Eurasia. We were at war with the Middle East before, and now apparently we're at war with Russia. Which country will be the next boogeyman? It's also an effective way to distract us from ourselves and our own personal issues that we should face in our own lives first and foremost.

Can we recognise this for what it is, which is a tactic to keep us distracted and cause further division amongst people? Whoever is blaming Russians here is falling for that trap. At the end of the day it's not the people creating the war, but the governments who are really puppets doing the bidding of the hidden (cowardly) powers at the end of the day.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Dirius, Volodymyr Zelinsky has become an international hero, in case you hadn't noticed. There's something about David standing up to Goliath that many people find appealing.

A former comedian and actor would seem to have the wrong kind of training for a tyrant unwilling to relinquish power, wouldn't you think?

There is something about sycophants who role over and play dead when confronted by bullies that most of us find abhorrent.

American combat veterans are volunteering to go to Ukraine to fight on its behalf. https://www.voanews.com/a/american-veterans-volunteer-to-fight-in-ukraine-/6470781.html This is happening around the free world.
https://www.ft.com/content/2a877400-50df-4878-8815-605405e92c68

I don't know what news outlets you follow, but they apparently missed the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine's Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk regions in 2014, and the continued fighting taking place in the eastern districts. The independence votes there were a sham.

The "denazification" trope is a sick joke. Thousands of Nazis fled to Argentina after WW2. You have fascists and neo-Nazis in Argentina today. That's no rationale for invading Argentina.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...st-pedro-filipuzzi-buenos-aires-a9378321.html

Putin well understands that nobody is going to "demilitarize." Probably there are some nations on the planet with no military and no weapons, but I can't think of any. Can you?

The reason more and more Ukranians die every day is because of Zelensky. He is arming civilians and sending them to their death's in the streets.
Russia's demands for ending the war are:

1) Recognition Crimea is Russian territory.
2) Recognition of separatist regions of Donetsk and Luhansk
3) "de-nasification" and "de-militarisation" of Ukraine.

Well 1 and 2 are already happening, given Crimea was annexed in 2014 and the separatist regions are already pretty much independant and with russian backing. Even if the war had never started, it was unlikely Ukraine would regain any of these lost territories.

Then number 3 means a regime change (Zelensky and his administration gone) and Ukraine not joining NATO. While I certainly believe that Ukraine should be able to do whatever they want, given they are a sovereign nation, these is not a bad deal for Ukraine. In fact it is pretty little what the Ukraine has to loose in terms of territory on this scenario.

So why haven't they accepted? Well because it means corrupt Zelensky would have to give up power. Plain and simple. People in Ukraine are being killed so that **** can retain his power. :annoyed:
 

waybread

Well-known member
Has Putin DROPPED his demands that the Ukraine NEVER join the EU or NATO? I was led to believe that was his MAJOR reason for the invasion. [Edit: I see you covered that as part of point #3.]

Btw, although you're perfectly entitled to believe that neo-Nazis are anything more than vigilante cult members with NO governmental authority under Zelensky's leadership, I for one, consider that a fake Narrative. Similar to Trudeau attempting to use that ploy against the truckers in the Canadian Convoy Movement.

The truckers could have simply surrendered to Trudeau's mandates, and saved all that trouble!

Well, now they're getting arrested, David, and facing a bunch of lawsuits. All of their license numbers were recorded. Downtown Ottawa is full of surveillance cameras. Some of the ringleaders thought they were defending First Amendment Rights. Which actually do not pertain to Canada.

People have the right to peaceful demonstrations. People who honk their horns all night in a residential neighborhood are not peaceful. Trucks have no human rights.

The great majority of Canadians-- and truckers-- were vaccinated before the protest started. A majority of Canadians did not support the truckers' protest by a small minority. We support our health care and front-line workers.

The initial truckers' protest about cross-border trucking regulations got co-opted by a bunch of anti-vaxxers and nihilists with their own agendas; some of their demands flying in the face of how leadership changes actually happen in a parliamentary democracy.

I didn't and do not support Justin Trudeau personally, but in a parliamentary system, him stepping down would require either a resignation or a vote of no-confidence in the legislature. Since the Liberals + the NDP formed a majority, that wasn't going to happen.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I don't think Zelensky wants power, with such a horrific price tag, Dirius. I think he's very courageous. Someone had to spearhead resistance to Putin's invasion; and as president, he was it.

I point out that Ukrainians did not greet Russian tanks with candy and flowers, as Putin anticipated.

This poem by Sir Walter Scott, is for you, Dirius:

"Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!

Whose heart hath ne’er within him burn’d,
As home his footsteps he hath turn’d,
From wandering on a foreign strand!
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no Minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour’d, and unsung."



I don't agree Zelensky is hero. While I agree Ukraine is a sovereign nation and should be entitled to do as they please, they are the ones losing the war, and are not in a position to bargain. It is their civilians who die each day. Especially if these demands are reasonable, which they kind of are, in the sense that Russia could ask for much more. The terroritories Russia demands recognition for, have not been under Ukranian control for a long time.

Ukraine isn't losing much more than they already did years ago. But Zelensky does not want to leave power.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Having a colony in the past that is now an independent nation is no rational for launching a war against it. Also, Ukraine was at various times part of other European empires based in Poland and Austria. Nobody's trying to bring back the Hapsburgs.

The British fought against the US with the War of 1812. Although they managed to sack Washington, DC, that war didn't go so well for them, either.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is seen an attempt to get back it's former and historic colonies...did the British do that with their former colonies (the USA)? Knowing world history: the pro-British monarchist loyalists migrated to settle in Canada. And Russia's adage "we're Slavic brothers to Ukraine" when the other felt threatened like a dysfunctional family relationship from a reality or a talk show.
 

Roks

Well-known member
nuclear.PNG

Hope this is just propaganda
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Unfortunately, Dirius, investment may not mean building manufacturing plants and hiring new workers right where you'd like to have them. It may mean "saving" funds electronically. Banks are required to hold a minimum amount of assets. It may mean buying up real estate. It may mean lending money it out at interest. Municipal bonds may be used to fund construction projects that hire people for the duration of the project only. Government bonds and Treasury notes are used to pay off debt, and so on..

Real estate is used for what? an investment in developing and construction.
Lending money at interest is used for what? investments and business expansion.
Municipal bonds are purchased by whom? by investors buying them as investments.

If people have less money, they invest in less of these, or look for more attractive options. Its like you have no idea how the economy works. :wink:

Everyone will feel the pinch of sanctions. The calculus is that they will hit Russia harder and quicker, to the point where Putin backs off Ukraine. Since a lot of Russian companies are owned by fabulously wealthy oligarchs, they probably can keep their businesses afloat for a while. My hope is that they will decide Putin just isn't worth it.

I don't think Putin cares an iota about protestors, other than muzzling the press so that Russians don't learn about them. Protests in Europe so far have been overwhelmingly pro-Ukraine.

The plan is that they won't be prolonged because Russia will cave in first.
It can take months for those sanctions to take effect. On the mean time, Russia is slowly conquering the Ukraine and the war will probably take effect. In fact, if in desperation, Russia could bomb all Ukranian cities, and just end the war in 12 hours - killing millions of people, annexing Ukraine or forcing them to have peace. So in a way the sanctions can be used as provocation to escalate the war into a bloodbath.

But I guess brilliant Brandon couldn't come up with a better plan.

So far as the Canadian economy goes, gas in my little town went from $1.49/liter to $1.69/liter in a couple of weeks. I would willingly drive less and pay more if it means that Putin gets the h*ll out of Ukraine.

Oil and Gas are also used in manufacturing, not just driving mrs waybread around.
Oil and Gas are also used in producing food, not just driving mrs waybread around.
Oil and Gas are used in transportation of goods, not just driving mrs waybread around.
Oil and Gas are used to power your phone, your computer, not just driving mrs waybread around.
Oil and gas, when their price increases, hits every area of the economy, not just mrs waybread driving time.

What mrs waybread doesn't seem to understand is that the sanctions are going to hit every single area of the economy, not just her car expenses. And it can take a few weeks before you see this (has anyone gotten their electric bill since the sanctions began?). Also, aside from being extremely elitist, given that for Mrs waybread a $0,20c might not be harmful to her wealth, it might be for others less fortunate people.
:happy::happy::sideways:

I think mrs waybread should step down from her home in the high castle, and begin to realise these effects will hit on poor people rather than her. In the U.S. these includes most minorities and at risk groups, you know, the people mrs waybread claims to care so much about.
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
Dirius, Volodymyr Zelinsky has become an international hero, in case you hadn't noticed. There's something about David standing up to Goliath that many people find appealing.
No he isn't. The media tries to portray him as a hero. Doesn't mean he is one.

There is something about sycophants who role over and play dead when confronted by bullies that most of us find abhorrent.
Zelensky is a public servant whose job is to do what is in the best interest of his people, which is ending the war and saving lives. If he wants to play the hero on camera, that makes him a dumbass, not a leader.

I don't know what news outlets you follow, but they apparently missed the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine's Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk regions in 2014, and the continued fighting taking place in the eastern districts. The independence votes there were a sham.

Yes, it was a corrupt takeover of all those regions. But Ukraine has 0% chances of getting those territories back anyways, so giving them up would not harm them anyhow. They are not getting Crimea back, so refusing to negotiate based on these issues is just dumb, and made out of pride, rather than logic.
The "denazification" trope is a sick joke. Thousands of Nazis fled to Argentina after WW2. You have fascists and neo-Nazis in Argentina today. That's no rationale for invading Argentina.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...st-pedro-filipuzzi-buenos-aires-a9378321.html

Putin well understands that nobody is going to "demilitarize." Probably there are some nations on the planet with no military and no weapons, but I can't think of any. Can you?

I really can't see how you didn't understand my statement, are you reading properly?

"de-nazification" is a laughable excuse (just like when democrats cry "white supremacy"), the goal is to remove the pro-NATO administration.
"de-militarize" means no NATO advanced weaponry on Ukraine soil, not that Ukraine can't have an army or national guard.
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
I don't think Zelensky wants power, with such a horrific price tag, Dirius. I think he's very courageous. Someone had to spearhead resistance to Putin's invasion; and as president, he was it.
He is a pro-NATO politician funded by EU interests, just like former president Yanukovych is a pro-Russia politician funded by russian interests. They are pawns in the long running game between the U.S. and Russia.
I point out that Ukrainians did not greet Russian tanks with candy and flowers, as Putin anticipated.

Yes they are making a fine job keeping the russian army at bay. However:

They have 0% chances of winning the war, given Russia has a superior force and armaments.
They have 0% chances of a counter attack to recover lost territory (unless other countries get involved).
They have 0% chances of preventing the destruction and long-term problems this causes.

Their best chance was to put up a strong defense and negotiate, giving up what was already lost (Crimea and the separatist regions). They are not doing that, while Zelensky is arming more and more civilians and sending them to die. Also understand, the terms Russia is imposing (considering Ukraine's position) are quite soft - because they could just go for total conquest or ask for more territory.
 

david starling

Well-known member
He is a pro-NATO politician funded by EU interests, just like former president Yanukovych is a pro-Russia politician funded by russian interests. They are pawns in the long running game between the U.S. and Russia.


Yes they are making a fine job keeping the russian army at bay. However:

They have 0% chances of winning the war, given Russia has a superior force and armaments.
They have 0% chances of a counter attack to recover lost territory (unless other countries get involved).
They have 0% chances of preventing the destruction and long-term problems this causes.

Their best chance was to put up a strong defense and negotiate, giving up what was already lost (Crimea and the separatist regions). They are not doing that, while Zelensky is arming more and more civilians and sending them to die. Also understand, the terms Russia is imposing (considering Ukraine's position) are quite soft - because they could just go for total conquest or ask for more territory.


What about the powerful Nazi Brigade, and the deadly biolabs? Do you believe those really exist?
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Let me make it simple waybread:

Lets say you are walking down the street at night one day, and you encounter an armed robber that demands your wallet and phone at gun point.

You have no weapons of your own, and you have no ninja skills to defend yourself.

You can try fighting back, instead of giving up your wallet and phone. You will probably end up dead, because you are at a disadvantageous position, while the other person is not only ambushing you, but also has weapons that can destroy you.

It would be very heroic if you fight back. But it would also be pointless, because your life is more important than your wallet and phone.

Now lets imagine that the robber tells you:"Ok I'll only take 30% of what you have in your wallet, and you can keep your phone and the rest of your money and I will leave you and your family alone". .

This is what the Ukranian leadership are doing. The people are forced to fight back to protect their families because the leadership of Ukraine is unwilling to negotiate proper terms.
 
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