Free Choice When Can You Use It?
- Thread starter Opal
- Start date
Are you speaking about Free Will? As opposed to Fate or predetermined events in one's life?
I think it is a very complicated question and a very complex set of answers/explanations.
I had an astrologer mentor who firmly believed in Free Will and really disliked when astrologers gave 'fated' readings to clients, saying they would NEVER be married, NEVER have career success, etc etc.
She had natal Mars in Aries in her 1st house. When she had a Uranus transit opposing her natal Mars, she was very careful about trying to avoid accidents, and arguments, because she knew it was a ripe time for such things.
She was driving to work and stopped to pick up a coworker. She was parked, sitting in her car in the apartment complex lot, waiting for her friend when a huge tree toppled over and smashed her car.
If her friend had been in the car already she would have died because the passenger seat was totally crushed. The tree landed on my friend's legs and they were both broken in a few places. She was lucky to be alive.
But it made us both reevaluate the Free Will question. She didn't really have a chance to make any free will choices in this incident. It wasn't even storming. There had been a 2 day storm previously, and the ground was so saturated that this very old tree just toppled over.
So one couldn't even say she 'chose' to park under a tree during a big storm. There wasn't really any warning she was in a dangerous situation.
Now she did have free will in the aftermath. She had various medical choices and she chose to keep her legs even though they wanted to amputate her right leg at first.
However it seemed to her that 'fate' intervened in her life.
Here is an interesting take on the subject:
Interestingly, Evolutionary Astrology teaches us that the measure of fate or free will in a person’s life can be assessed by the position of the planets in their chart. And it is simple to see. By dividing the circular chart into eastern houses and western houses, we have a system that shows on what side of the railway tracks our life tends to lean. Let me give an example….. find the meridian line in your circular chart, represented by the symbology “MC – IC”. Anything on the left side of that line (the side of your ascendant) will be associated with your will power, your self-determination, your personal action that can achieve an outcome. This is known as the Eastern Hemisphere in our chart. Polarically, anything right of that meridian line (the side of your descendant) will represent established forces in our lives, immovable powers, twists of fate. This is the Western Hemisphere. Count up the planets in your chart – how many do you have in each hemisphere (west or east)? If you have a big majority in the east (ascendant side), life for you circles around your intention, the power of your will, and the creation of your own destiny.
While a big swath of planets in the west (descendant) reveals that you must learn to cultivate adaptability, going with the flow, and TRUST that your soul contract is being fulfilled exactly on schedule. And for those with more harmony and balance in their chart (an even spread of planets across both hemispheres) your life will experience both effects – phew! In my readings, I can look at the position of planets in these hemispheres, and how they might play out in your life with regards to fate or freewill.
https://www.astrolada.com/articles/karmic-astrology/are-you-a-fate-or-free-will-person.html
I happen to strongly believe in Free Will but I also believe there are fated circumstances we have to deal with as well.
I think it is a very complicated question and a very complex set of answers/explanations.
I had an astrologer mentor who firmly believed in Free Will and really disliked when astrologers gave 'fated' readings to clients, saying they would NEVER be married, NEVER have career success, etc etc.
She had natal Mars in Aries in her 1st house. When she had a Uranus transit opposing her natal Mars, she was very careful about trying to avoid accidents, and arguments, because she knew it was a ripe time for such things.
She was driving to work and stopped to pick up a coworker. She was parked, sitting in her car in the apartment complex lot, waiting for her friend when a huge tree toppled over and smashed her car.
If her friend had been in the car already she would have died because the passenger seat was totally crushed. The tree landed on my friend's legs and they were both broken in a few places. She was lucky to be alive.
But it made us both reevaluate the Free Will question. She didn't really have a chance to make any free will choices in this incident. It wasn't even storming. There had been a 2 day storm previously, and the ground was so saturated that this very old tree just toppled over.
So one couldn't even say she 'chose' to park under a tree during a big storm. There wasn't really any warning she was in a dangerous situation.
Now she did have free will in the aftermath. She had various medical choices and she chose to keep her legs even though they wanted to amputate her right leg at first.
However it seemed to her that 'fate' intervened in her life.
Here is an interesting take on the subject:
Interestingly, Evolutionary Astrology teaches us that the measure of fate or free will in a person’s life can be assessed by the position of the planets in their chart. And it is simple to see. By dividing the circular chart into eastern houses and western houses, we have a system that shows on what side of the railway tracks our life tends to lean. Let me give an example….. find the meridian line in your circular chart, represented by the symbology “MC – IC”. Anything on the left side of that line (the side of your ascendant) will be associated with your will power, your self-determination, your personal action that can achieve an outcome. This is known as the Eastern Hemisphere in our chart. Polarically, anything right of that meridian line (the side of your descendant) will represent established forces in our lives, immovable powers, twists of fate. This is the Western Hemisphere. Count up the planets in your chart – how many do you have in each hemisphere (west or east)? If you have a big majority in the east (ascendant side), life for you circles around your intention, the power of your will, and the creation of your own destiny.
While a big swath of planets in the west (descendant) reveals that you must learn to cultivate adaptability, going with the flow, and TRUST that your soul contract is being fulfilled exactly on schedule. And for those with more harmony and balance in their chart (an even spread of planets across both hemispheres) your life will experience both effects – phew! In my readings, I can look at the position of planets in these hemispheres, and how they might play out in your life with regards to fate or freewill.
https://www.astrolada.com/articles/karmic-astrology/are-you-a-fate-or-free-will-person.html
I happen to strongly believe in Free Will but I also believe there are fated circumstances we have to deal with as well.
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Opal
Premium Member
Thank you for the very interesting answer. I am good with the addition of free will. Things that are fated.
We have all had moments of fate, where something happens, and it misses you. Once, I turned to walk away, said “See ya” and was jerked back off my feet, and a car sped by, my friend saw it, and pulled me back. Whew! We both laughed, somewhat uncomfortably. It was very close.
All my planets are eastern, except Mars.
I can’t argue that. I feel I do control my destiny, make my own choices, within the realms of reason of society. I can’t think of anyone that would say I don’t have a powerful will.
Fate though, is different than free will. It is beyond control. Free will, is choice. Fate just happens, regardless of the result.
Like your last sentence.
We have all had moments of fate, where something happens, and it misses you. Once, I turned to walk away, said “See ya” and was jerked back off my feet, and a car sped by, my friend saw it, and pulled me back. Whew! We both laughed, somewhat uncomfortably. It was very close.
All my planets are eastern, except Mars.
I can’t argue that. I feel I do control my destiny, make my own choices, within the realms of reason of society. I can’t think of anyone that would say I don’t have a powerful will.
Fate though, is different than free will. It is beyond control. Free will, is choice. Fate just happens, regardless of the result.
Like your last sentence.
Opal
Premium Member
Of the article. As it says, it depends on what you are looking for. If pizza and a couch with a TV is what you aspire to, then that is your choice, and reaping a lifetime of it, may be a success, if that is what your will, and choice wants.
Then a meteor hits your pillow, as with the lady in Winnipeg a few weeks ago. You can’t control that.
Then a meteor hits your pillow, as with the lady in Winnipeg a few weeks ago. You can’t control that.
Astrologer Joseph
Active member
Hi Opal
With human eyes we often think that free choice is the only way. But through the eyes of the inner eagle and its multidimensional nature, this belief becomes increasingly laughable. The deeper one goes into the rabbit hole, the more stranger things become. At these depths the illusion of freewill is lifted, with inner peace remaining a common by-product. I would say respect the journey of not knowing, and seek those eagle eyes as an admirable pathway.
Astrologer Joseph
With human eyes we often think that free choice is the only way. But through the eyes of the inner eagle and its multidimensional nature, this belief becomes increasingly laughable. The deeper one goes into the rabbit hole, the more stranger things become. At these depths the illusion of freewill is lifted, with inner peace remaining a common by-product. I would say respect the journey of not knowing, and seek those eagle eyes as an admirable pathway.
Astrologer Joseph
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
EXAMPLE OF HAVING NO CHOICE
a barbaric abuse of power over the most vulnerable
and powerless among us
by exploitative moneyed interests.
Under the guise of "...biomedical research..."
those who have taken an oath to FIRST, DO NO HARM
have, by this betrayal
been doing THE MOST CRUELTY AND HARM POSSIBLE.
NEW: Taxpayer-Funded
Fetal Organ “...Chop Shop...” Exposed
Judicial Watch Senior Attorney Meredith DiLiberto
appeared on "...EWTN News Nightly..."
to talk about how the University of Pittsburgh contacted Director of NIH
for help with push back on criticism of fetal organ experiments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em9hiPRLG8
clearly unlawful to do this
and they are lying and denying it
that level of deceit
and frankly
a criminal murder and body part trafficking business model
is simply outrageous!
understand what ‘Roe v Wade’ is really all about
.
Astrologer Joseph
Active member
From all I have seen to date 'Will' is evident, which is largely embodied by the personal planets and the Ascendant/Descendant axis, as well as any planet (including generational ones), conjunct this axis. It is inevitable that this 'Will' has the urge to express itself. However, whether this 'Will' is free from all influence/direction is the perennial question. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the rabbit hole and how far it is going.
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Opal
Premium Member
What if, a person has no planets conjunct the Ascendant, only the AC/DC lends to the “will”? What of others aspects?
Oddly, I have never seen an actual rabbit hole. Thickets, and hiding spots supplied by peoples. But I seem to find myself in the thicket of them.
Is it just a euphemism?
Astrologer Joseph
Active member
Yes, largely just a euphemism. Look for planets conjunct within 10 degrees of the angular points of the chart, including 4th and 10th houses cusps or MC/IC conjunctions. Also, the planet ruling the signs of Asc/Desc will influence the strength of a person's 'Will' energy.
IleneK
Premium Member
Hello, Joseph.
When you say "within 10 degrees of the angular points," would you characterize a planet in the 12th and having risen 5 degrees above the ascendant, as conjunct the asc?
Thank you.
Astrologer Joseph
Active member
Yes, this location of a planet would affect your physical appearance and influence your available 'will' energy; but probably from a unseen/subconscious perspective too. Awareness work from you may be able to identify when this planet is affecting your 'will' in a more conscious way.
david starling
Well-known member
