Mutual Reception

Schildmaid · May 24, 2016

Can mutual reception happen between more than 2 planets (like if you have 3 or more planets all in each others' signs)? Also, does mutual reception mean a planet is not peregrine? It's probably not as strong to have 3 or more planets all in each others' signs but it seems it would have some sort of beneficial effect. I'm also not sure if mutual reception applies to other things besides sign rulers and exaltation (such as triplicity rulers), or if you can, say, have one planet in another planet's sign of exaltation and the other planet in the other's sign of domicile, or it has to be symmetrical. Honestly I don't understand much anything.

tsmall · May 24, 2016

Schildmaid said:
Can mutual reception happen between more than 2 planets

Of course it can.

Schildmaid said:
(like if you have 3 or more planets all in each others' signs)?

To answer that we'd need a specific example. And remember, reception requires an aspect, otherwise what you have is generosity. If planet A is in the dignities of planet B and C, planet B is in the dignities of planet A and C, and planet C is in the dignities of planets A and B, AND they regard each other by Ptolemaic aspect, then they are all in mutual reception.

Schildmaid said:
Also, does mutual reception mean a planet is not peregrine?

It does not. Mutual reception is an "accidental dignity," which is an unfortunate name since it doesn't confer dignity. Peregrination is an "essential debility," or debility of nature/essense, while "accidental" dignities such as mutual reception, angularity, bonnefication are the result of circumstances apart from what is conferred to the planet in and of itself.

Schildmaid said:
It's probably not as strong to have 3 or more planets all in each others' signs but it seems it would have some sort of beneficial effect.

Again, we'd need to see a chart to be able to answer the question. Each chart/placement is going to be different.

Schildmaid said:
I'm also not sure if mutual reception applies to other things besides sign rulers and exaltation (such as triplicity rulers), or if you can, say, have one planet in another planet's sign of exaltation and the other planet in the other's sign of domicile, or it has to be symmetrical. Honestly I don't understand much anything.

Yes, you can have mixed mutual reception. For example, Moon in Taurus and Venus in Cancer.

Schildmaid · May 24, 2016

Well, the reason I asked is because I was looking at my chart and trying to find something good in it. I haven't had a horrible life and I'm not a horrible person so I think there's probably quite a few good things going on that I'm just not seeing here and I was wondering if maybe the mutual reception could be it. If more than 2 planets can be in mutual reception and planets can have asymmetrical mutual receptions then Saturn is involved in 3 mutual recpetions by sign and that alone brings it up to a positive dignity even though it's not otherwise in a great position (and if you include triplicity and other kinds of minor things you probably get a bit more).

The mutual receptions are:

Sun in Aquarius and Saturn in Aries: Sun is exalted in Aries and Saturn is domiciled in Aquarius
Mars in Libra and Saturn in Aries: Mars is domiciled in Aries and Saturn is exalted in Libra
Venus in Capricorn, Mars in Libra, and Saturn in Aries: This is the 3-way domicile mutual reception that I was wondering about

Also, Saturn appears to be a sort of secondary ruler of the fire triplicity according to this one thing I read, so maybe it's not peregrine either. All of those planets are actually in aspect with one another. I'm guessing a square or opposition is better than no aspect when it comes to stuff like this as long as it's not a 1 degree square or opposition with Mars or Saturn since it allows the planets to actually be in reception and that's good. If you can have mutual reception with triplicity rulers and other minor things you have even more of that because basically eveything is in aspect to everything else by sign.

I really need to learn how to use Astrodienst because I remember that you can change the house system, get rid of the outer planets/asteroids, add in various things such as the parts, and all sorts of other things but I don't remember how to do any of them.

LovelyMissAries · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
The mutual receptions are:

Sun in Aquarius and Saturn in Aries: Sun is exalted in Aries and Saturn is domiciled in Aquarius
Mars in Libra and Saturn in Aries: Mars is domiciled in Aries and Saturn is exalted in Libra
Venus in Capricorn, Mars in Libra, and Saturn in Aries: This is the 3-way domicile mutual reception that I was wondering about

Maybe this is out of my realm but those don't sound like mutual receptions. Receptions would be if Sun was in Aquarius and Saturn / Uranus was in Leo. or Mars in Libra, Venus in Aries. The bottom example basically.

ETA: I stand corrected as I just read this on Wiki: Mutual reception is not limited to exchange of the signs of dignity of rulership. Ancient and medieval astrologers gave equal force to mutuality obtained by planets being in each other's signs of exaltation—for example, Jupiter in Taurus in a chart where the Moon is in Cancer.

conspiracy theorist · May 25, 2016

LovelyMissAries said:
ETA: I stand corrected as I just read this on Wiki: Mutual reception is not limited to exchange of the signs of dignity of rulership. Ancient and medieval astrologers gave equal force to mutuality obtained by planets being in each other's signs of exaltation—for example, Jupiter in Taurus in a chart where the Moon is in Cancer.

To add to that, planets can be in mutual reception with lesser dignities as well e.g. Jupiter in Saturn's terms while Saturn is in Jupiter's face.

Schildmaid · May 25, 2016

So you can have two different lesser dignities as well? Can you also have a lesser dignity and a greater dignity in mutual reception? I'm guessing when you're calculating dignities when you have different dignities you add the dignities of what they would be if they were in the other position (I'm having trouble thinking of a good example though).

conspiracy theorist · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
So you can have two different lesser dignities as well? Can you also have a lesser dignity and a greater dignity in mutual reception? I'm guessing when you're calculating dignities when you have different dignities you add the dignities of what they would be if they were in the other position (I'm having trouble thinking of a good example though).

Yes to all of the green part. Unsure what you mean by the orange though. Maybe if I provide an example we'll both be clearer on the matter.

Ok, this is from my chart. Jupiter is at 21 Sagittarius and Saturn is at 18 Pisces. Jupiter is located in the face and term of Saturn. Saturn quite obviously is located in Jupiter's domicile as well as Jupiter's term. As you can probably tell, they are in aspect with one another (square) so will qualify as being in mutual reception (as opposed to generosity).

Schildmaid · May 25, 2016

conspiracy theorist said:
Yes to all of the green part. Unsure what you mean by the orange though. Maybe if I provide an example we'll both be clearer on the matter.

Ok, this is from my chart. Jupiter is at 21 Sagittarius and Saturn is at 18 Pisces. Jupiter is located in the face and term of Saturn. Saturn quite obviously is located in Jupiter's domicile as well as Jupiter's term. As you can probably tell, they are in aspect with one another (square) so will qualify as being in mutual reception (as opposed to generosity).

On the orange, I'll use your chart. Jupiter gets +7 from Saturn, since it's in its domicile and term, and Saturn gets +3 from Jupiter, since it's in its face and term.

conspiracy theorist · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
On the orange, I'll use your chart. Jupiter gets +7 from Saturn, since it's in its domicile and term, and Saturn gets +3 from Jupiter, since it's in its face and term.

I see, you're using Lilly's point scoring to give more dignity points to each planet based on the received planet's position.

Personally, I wouldn't give those additional points to the planets but then I don't really use Lilly's point scoring table. What does happen is that both planets end up working more harmoniously than the square aspect would signify at first blush. All the more so because my chart is diurnal( so Saturn is better behaved).

Schildmaid · May 25, 2016

Basically. Lilly's chart also says mutual reception is an essential dignity, so that would mean planets in mutual reception aren't peregrine, and essentially give planets in mutual reception that are in detriment or fall an essential dignity of 0 (unless there are other contributing factors). I might not be thinking correctly though.

conspiracy theorist · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
Basically. Lilly's chart also says mutual reception is an essential dignity, so that would mean planets in mutual reception aren't peregrine, and essentially give planets in mutual reception that are in detriment or fall an essential dignity of 0 (unless there are other contributing factors). I might not be thinking correctly though.

Opinions differ on the peregrine matter. If Lilly sees mutual reception rescuing a planet from being peregrine, there are many who would disagree (I'm one of them). The thing is, if a planet isn't in any one of it's dignities (Domicile, Exaltation, Triplicity, Term, Face) then it is peregrine no ifs or buts (my opinion). So the Sun in your chart would be peregrine despite being in mutual reception with Saturn.

The mutual reception would come under an accidental dignity which means that the planets relationship to the other planets and houses are being measured.

I'm guessing that Lilly gives 0 to a debilitated planet in MR because it is seen as a good thing when a planet aspects it's dispositor, because the ruling planet can help out/back up said planet.

tsmall · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
The mutual receptions are:

Sun in Aquarius and Saturn in Aries: Sun is exalted in Aries and Saturn is domiciled in Aquarius

Yes, this is mixed mutual reception, however by detriment or debility so not really a positive thing. In your chart Sun is separating from a sextile to Saturn so it isn't as bad as it could be were the Sun to be applying to Saturn, but what you have here is a case of a detrimented Sun relying on and in the home of his sworn enemy (Saturn) who is in turn in fall in the place where the Sun is exalted. In this case, hands down, Sun wins.

Schildmaid said:
Mars in Libra and Saturn in Aries: Mars is domiciled in Aries and Saturn is exalted in Libra

Another case of mixed mr.

Schildmaid said:
Venus in Capricorn, Mars in Libra, and Saturn in Aries: This is the 3-way domicile mutual reception that I was wondering about

Remember that at it's base, reception is about allowing. So which planet is allowing another, and to what extent. Venus in Mars exaltion, Mars allows, same for Mars in Libra--Venus alows Mars. The difference here isn't really about the reception but rather about the position. What is a debilitated Mars capable of, that Venus is going to allow him to do?

Venus is in turn received by a heavily detrimented Saturn, so while she's in his his and he's going to allow her to do stuff, she still has to follow his rules. Or, in the case of your chart possibly not, because Venus is in her own bounds, interpreted as Venus being bound by her own terms.

It really comes down to taking each planet apart and looking at it in relation to every other planet in the chart.

Schildmaid said:
Also, Saturn appears to be a sort of secondary ruler of the fire triplicity according to this one thing I read, so maybe it's not peregrine either.

According to the Dorothean triplicities, Saturn is the participating ruler of the Fire triplicity. Basically, he rows when there is no wind (don't ask me to explain it, it would take more time than I have) but does not get dignity for being in the fire triplicity. Triplicity rulers have to follow sect (something Lilly doesn't allow for, btw). So if it is a diurnal chart Sun rules fire and gets dignity. Nocturnal, then Jupiter is the triplicity ruler. We don't consider them if otherwise.

Schildmaid said:
I really need to learn how to use Astrodienst because I remember that you can change the house system, get rid of the outer planets/asteroids, add in various things such as the parts, and all sorts of other things but I don't remember how to do any of them.

Drop down arrows/boxes. Play with them. It's like riding a bicycle.

JUPITERASC · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
Basically. Lilly's chart also says mutual reception is an essential dignity
so that would mean planets in mutual reception aren't peregrine
and essentially give planets in mutual reception that are in detriment or fall an essential dignity of 0 (unless there are other contributing factors).
I might not be thinking correctly though.

Reception does not save a planet from being peregrine :smile:

JUPITERASC · May 25, 2016

Schildmaid said:
I really need to learn how to use Astrodienst
because I remember that
you can change the house system,
get rid of the outer planets/asteroids,
add in various things such as the parts,
and all sorts of other things
but I don't remember how to do any of them.

select Astrodienst Extended Chart Selection Page
then scroll down for the various options

JUPITERASC · Jul 30, 2023

.

Not Greek but still ancient, Firmicus Maternus

"..But Mercury, located in Aquarius, without aspect to Jupiter
was located in the sign of Saturn,
& Saturn in the sign of Mercury
– their signs are in mutual reception
– and this made the native knowledgeable of arcane literature. ."
The concept clearly existed.
The idea is that planets in reception become the stewards of each other's places.

.

JUPITERASC · Jul 30, 2023

.

Some receptions are obviously a good thing.
With Venus in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Libra, neither planet is badly placed
so they can combine harmoniously.
The Sun in Aries and Mars in Leo is even better, since the Sun is exalted.

But if the reception involves both planets being badly placed
how can they benefit each other?
For example Venus in Aries and Mars in Taurus.
In a man's chart, Mars was in the 10th and he died in battle.
In a woman's chart, Venus was in the 12th & Mars in the 1st, and she was plagued by ill-health

.

Outlook · Jul 31, 2023

you dont see anything good in your chart?

yes you have a pretty tight mean looking grand cross that must keep you sharp minded and very analytical…but you have some rather good stuff too.

the problem is that the GC takes priority and creates such mindful business that nothing else can get brain time. by the time it finishes analysis to breadcrumb and beyond …, poking at everything to stir them up to find fault….it all seems negative.

you have two mini triangles. you can see them glaringly obvious, working automatically easing your way.

the one on hour sun, uranus etc keeps you fresh, invigorated, constantly open, life loving but stable.

the other on pluto to help you strengthen and regenerate..and get the very best out of life with just a bit of trying.

the trines to that mean mars also help temper it …but it does rather let you down with its constant fault finding…criticism…rattling around fussing, poking things, just inability to settle to harmony.

if only you could learn to calm and tune that mars critter down! spend more times focusing on that. as in learning to accept that half of it is you needing to accept the dark matter stuff and letting things be in order to gain harmony.

right now its decided to go looking for more things to chuck in the chart so it can get tiny difficulties going turning them into mountains, to go complaining at and muddying the waters to undermine yourself with.

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