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Ambitious
04-09-2016, 11:14 PM
I have Mars and Moon conjunct in Cancer also conjunct Midheaven. So far, most everything I have read about Cancer placements (Mars especially) is dour. The Moon is home is Cancer so maybe that is a little better. Although I do have good instincts, I did not receive emotional support as a child nor do I cry easily (the opposite) act indirectly- I am usually square in my dealings with people. I understand house placements may play a part in this but am wondering if the Midheaven has something to do with this also. I see write ups about Cancer Moon and Mars and cannot relate to them much, wondering what happened to mine lol.

My Chart

conspiracy theorist
04-11-2016, 04:09 AM
Just saw this thread. What you describe of yourself and what you told me in the other thread actually matches up quite well with your chart.

For one, the Lord of Geniture in this chart looks to be the Leo Sun in the 10th -- this is a placement that will drive you towards leadership, making your name known and the high status lifestyle. This placement alone encapsulates your name Ambitious.

You told me that you don't necessarily experience major conflicts in relationships (so long as you're the boss) but you do have clashes with authority figures. This is where your Mars comes in. Mars is out- of - sect and in fall which means that he will manifest in a more unruly way; not weak (angularity decides whether a planet is weak/strong). A culminating Mars is very strong and with inclined to the house of authority I see why you have problems with those in charge. Mars importantly also rules your 7th house of open enemies. Moon rules your 10th and is afflicted by Mars - Warring with authority.

Your LoG and Mars both show that you and only you should be the boss.

Exalted Saturn in the first + detrimented Venus retrograde conjunct Mercury shows an austere person, one that is more inclined to hold themself aloof and apart from other people.

Ambitious
04-12-2016, 01:41 AM
Just saw this thread. What you describe of yourself and what you told me in the other thread actually matches up quite well with your chart.

For one, the Lord of Geniture in this chart looks to be the Leo Sun in the 10th -- this is a placement that will drive you towards leadership, making your name known and the high status lifestyle. This placement alone encapsulates your name Ambitious.

You told me that you don't necessarily experience major conflicts in relationships (so long as you're the boss) but you do have clashes with authority figures. This is where your Mars comes in. Mars is out- of - sect and in fall which means that he will manifest in a more unruly way; not weak (angularity decides whether a planet is weak/strong). A culminating Mars is very strong and with inclined to the house of authority I see why you have problems with those in charge. Mars importantly also rules your 7th house of open enemies. Moon rules your 10th and is afflicted by Mars - Warring with authority.

Your LoG and Mars both show that you and only you should be the boss.

Exalted Saturn in the first + detrimented Venus retrograde conjunct Mercury shows an austere person, one that is more inclined to hold themself aloof and apart from other people.

Thanks for this- I had never heard of the Lord of Geniture. I was only half kidding about being the boss in relationships and have experienced plenty of conflicts- mainly when someone attempts to dominate or impose upon my freedom- I can't stand that.

I tend to attract people and have alot of knowledge to share but can hold them at a distance at the same time.

graay ghost
04-12-2016, 01:49 AM
Question: what's the difference between the Lord of the Geniture and the Almuten Figuris?

conspiracy theorist
04-12-2016, 01:59 AM
Question: what's the difference between the Lord of the Geniture and the Almuten Figuris?

There is a thread on the LoG somewhere but the difference is is that the LoG is the planet who has the most dignity in the chart and can act while the almuten figuris is the planet who has the most dignity in the "life-giving" places (ASC, Sun, Moon, P.o.F, pre-natal lunation, planetary day, planetary hour)

So in your chart the LoG would be Aquarius Saturn in the 10th but your Almuten figuris (I'm just eye balling so might be wrong) is probably the moon, especially if you were born on a Monday.

graay ghost
04-12-2016, 02:34 AM
There is a thread on the LoG somewhere but the difference is is that the LoG is the planet who has the most dignity in the chart and can act while the almuten figuris is the planet who has the most dignity in the "life-giving" places (ASC, Sun, Moon, P.o.F, pre-natal lunation, planetary day, planetary hour)

So in your chart the LoG would be Aquarius Saturn in the 10th but your Almuten figuris (I'm just eye balling so might be wrong) is probably the moon, especially if you were born on a Monday.

Oh. I think I went through a calculator and my Almuten Figuris was actually Jupiter or something crazy like that, but then again who knows how they calculate these things in those. :unsure:

I would think that a moon in Cancer on the MC might be quite likable. Then again you've also got a sun in Leo in house 10 which might just be overpowering everything.

conspiracy theorist
04-12-2016, 03:16 AM
Oh. I think I went through a calculator and my Almuten Figuris was actually Jupiter or something crazy like that, but then again who knows how they calculate these things in those. :unsure:

I would think that a moon in Cancer on the MC might be quite likable. Then again you've also got a sun in Leo in house 10 which might just be overpowering everything.

Interesting. Were you born on a Thursday?

Funny how a man who has your attitude to philosophy end up having Jupiter as his almuten figuris. Mine happens to be Jupiter too

graay ghost
04-12-2016, 03:24 AM
Interesting. Were you born on a Thursday?

Funny how a man who has your attitude to philosophy end up having Jupiter as his almuten figuris. Mine happens to be Jupiter too

No, I was born on a Monday. The point table the program generates says that everything of mine has Jupiter gaining obscure dignities for most everything and my POF is in the first 10 degrees of Sagittarius so I guess that did it. Jupiter is a sneaky SOB let me tell you. I don't know what it's supposed to mean anyway. I don't feel very uh. Jovian.

On the subject at hand, I have a feeling that Cancer as a sign is pretty misunderstood.

conspiracy theorist
04-12-2016, 03:56 AM
No, I was born on a Monday. The point table the program generates says that everything of mine has Jupiter gaining obscure dignities for most everything and my POF is in the first 10 degrees of Sagittarius so I guess that did it. Jupiter is a sneaky SOB let me tell you. I don't know what it's supposed to mean anyway. I don't feel very uh. Jovian.

On the subject at hand, I have a feeling that Cancer as a sign is pretty misunderstood.

Well, the almuten isn't really about the personality. Besides, there is a number of things that's happening to your jupiter that makes it less jovian than it wants to be.

I do think Cancer as a sign is pretty underrated tbh. The crybaby stereotype has never been true in my experience, whether Sun or otherwise

graay ghost
04-12-2016, 04:10 AM
Well, the almuten isn't really about the personality. Besides, there is a number of things that's happening to your jupiter that makes it less jovian than it wants to be.

I do think Cancer as a sign is pretty underrated tbh. The crybaby stereotype has never been true in my experience, whether Sun or otherwise

I think a part of Cancerian trait is barriers. As in a protective barrier, but it does make it more difficult to communicate effectively and honestly because everything through it will inevitably get distorted. But I have silly ideas in general.

I am wondering where people get the crybaby idea? Did they just make it up whole-cloth?

(Don't mind me, though. I prove the rule :crying:)

conspiracy theorist
04-12-2016, 04:33 AM
Hmm, I suppose that only happens when you're alone? Two Cancer moons (male) I know don't have a problem with managing their emotions. You'd think they had air moons.

Mfroyer
04-12-2016, 08:12 AM
I am wondering where people get the crybaby idea? Did they just make it up whole-cloth?

(Don't mind me, though. I prove the rule :crying:)


I've wondered that too. Mmm sensitive people maybe, but I don't believe Cancarians to be outwardly emotional unless they're brooding. We tend to cry on the inside or avoid dealing with that emotion all together.
But my moon opposes saturn, so look that could be my own projection :andy:

graay ghost
04-12-2016, 11:57 AM
Hmm, I suppose that only happens when you're alone? Two Cancer moons (male) I know don't have a problem with managing their emotions. You'd think they had air moons.

How high level is your clearance card? I'm guessing it's not high enough. Lachrymose essence of Cancerian is really powerful stuff. We can't just give that kind of stuff out to just anyone.

I don't know. Sometimes I've started crying and I don't really know why... But this doesn't really happen in front of other people.

Ambitious
04-12-2016, 10:58 PM
Fascinating chart.


In my mind this is a strong indication of Moon/Mars Square Pluto/Saturn speaking. I would say Pluto in the first house is very intense (see my thread on Pluto in an Angular house in the Modern section). When it squares the Moon some interesting and intense feelings result especially since your Moon is very prominent in the 10th house.


That is Cancer talking all the way. You can put up that wall or create that protective shell should you need it.

Haven't heard 'fascinating' before.

I do mean what I say and say what I mean- an intense person indeed.

Ambitious
04-12-2016, 11:12 PM
Oh. I think I went through a calculator and my Almuten Figuris was actually Jupiter or something crazy like that, but then again who knows how they calculate these things in those. :unsure:

I would think that a moon in Cancer on the MC might be quite likable. Then again you've also got a sun in Leo in house 10 which might just be overpowering everything.

Moon is also conjunct Mars and square Saturn Pluto conjunction. Maybe that alters likability? My sibling has Moon Pisces singleton conjunct MC and trine aspects and is friendly. The only trine aspects I have to Moon are with Uranus and Jupiter.

JUPITERASC
04-12-2016, 11:16 PM
Question: what's the difference

between

the Lord of the Geniture

and

the Almuten Figuris?



How to calculate the Lord of the Geniture aka LoG :smile:

QUOTE

07-06-2010, 12:39 PM
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/image.php?u=4652&dateline=1187186025 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/member.php?u=4652) lillyjgc (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/member.php?u=4652) http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/images/futura/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,957


Almuten
ALMUTEN
By Cosmiccradle


The Almuten is the most powerful planet in the Chart having taken into account and calculated essential and accidental dignities.
The word Almuten is derived from the Arabic al-mateen meaning “the strong one” or “the firm one”.

Using the Almuten can be of great importance when interpreting the horoscope,
as it gives us a visual insight into the strength of the planets as to their place within the horoscope.
This is not to say that other points lose their importance compared to the Almuten,
only that the hierarchy should be noted when taking the chart into account
and that we should give special attention to this planet, or in some cases, planets.

In the chart we have three important Lords


Lord of the Geniture = Almuten taking into account both accidental and essential dignities
Lord of the Figure = Almuten taking into account only essential dignities
Lord of the Ascendant = Ruler of the Ascendant

The Almuten is almost as old as astrology itself.
With more insight and use, we could being doing astrology a service by investigating Rulership placements. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26272

JUPITERASC
04-12-2016, 11:21 PM
Lord of the Geniture is more Rennaisance "invention",

while

Almutem Figuris bears history from the Perso-Arabian authors
and is connected to the neo-platonists ideas and hermeticism (magick).
It requires different calculation and has different inherent meaning and philosophy.

I think the philosophy behind those two is what distinguishes them.


HOW TO DETERMINE LORD OF THE GENITURE THREAD discussion http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3567 :smile:

JUPITERASC
04-12-2016, 11:29 PM
There is a thread on the LoG somewhere

but the difference is

is that the LoG is the planet who has the most dignity in the chart
and can act

while the almuten figuris is the planet who has the most dignity in the "life-giving" places
(ASC, Sun, Moon, P.o.F, pre-natal lunation, planetary day, planetary hour)

So in your chart the LoG would be Aquarius Saturn in the 10th
but your Almuten figuris (I'm just eye balling so might be wrong)
is probably the moon, especially if you were born on a Monday.


ALMUTEM FIGURIS thread :smile:
with method of calculation and discussion http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=381593#post381593


Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine
where one planet according to certain calculations applied,
receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart.

Robert Zoler had applied the therm AlmuteM instead of AlmuteN
in order to differentiate the Lord of the Chart from the Lord of certain house
or place in the natal chart such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).


The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places.
Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.


The method which we'll use here I call Ezra/Zoller method.
Arabian Astrologer Ibn Ezra (1089 1164) was the first (as far as we at this moment are aware)
to explicitely wrote about calculating the Almutem Figuris.


In his writings Zoller trace the beginnings of this Almutem Figuris and he found it in the writings of Iambichus (c. 245c. 325)
who was Syrian neo-platonic philosopher who wrote also about Astrology in his writings.

Iambicus in his work "Theurgy or on the mysteries of Egypt" speaks about the thing how one can change his fate.
He speaks that he can do that through Theurgy and through personal relationship with the Lord of the Geniture
of which he (Iambichus) only says that can be known through Astrology, but he didn't explained the method.


Zoller, tracing back the Ibn Ezra's ancestry, through the Sabaeans and his teachers (Mashallah and other)
all the way to the first centuries where this doctrine was thought.
Because of that line Zoller thinks that the Lord of the Geniture of which Iambichus speaks in his writings
is in fact the Almutem Figuris of the Ibn Ezra.


Iambichus speaks (through the name of Porphyry) about the Peculiar Daimon,
that is some kind of an Guardian Angel and it is conected to the personal soul but its not the same

Here's what Iambichus says in his Theurgy:
This [daimon] therefore is present as an exemplar before the souls descend into the realm of generated existence.
As soon as the soul chooses him for leader the [daimon] immediately comes into charge of completing of its vital endowments
and when it descends into the body it unites with the body and becomes the guardian of it common living principle.
He likewise directs the the private life of the soul and
whatever the conclusions we may arrive at by inference and reasoning
he himself imparts to us the principles."



Zoller about the Almutem Figuris says that it is equally as powerful as all the other planets taken together."



Benjamin Dykes (great student of Zoller) says about Almutem Figuris:


"Almutem Figuris, a powerful planet in the natal figure whose spirit or angel acts as the native's special link to the Divine.
The Almutem Figuris is a spiritual astrological delineation, similar to but not the same as Lilly's the "Lord of the Geniture."
But like Lilly (and Plato), the Almutem Figuris was taken to affect the native's thoughts, beliefs and character.
Spiritual enlightenment can demand that we open our eyes to this particular planet and use it to access the Divine.
Significantly, this is a function that many modern astrologers now attribute to the sun sign." (In his article on Happiness).


The method of calculation

1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers), in the Degree of the:
- Sun
- Moon
- Ascendant
- Part of Fortune
- Syzygy (the prenatal lunation, the one that came last, i.e. after which the birth follows - New or Full Moon).

2. Add 7 points for the Day ruler and 6 points to the Hour ruler.

3. Add accidental dignities scores.

For the planet in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
7th house = 10
4th house = 9
11th = 8
5th = 7
2nd = 6
9th = 5
8th = 4
3rd = 3
12th = 2
6th = 1

The planet which has most points in the aforesaid places is the Almutem Figuris of the chart!

Don't forget to apply the 5 degrees ruler for the planet near the cusp of the houses.
For example, if Saturn is at 15 Scorpio in 4th, but the 5th house cusp is at 19 Scorpio,
you will calculate that Saturn already in the 5th, and you will give him 7 points instead of 9 as he would took if he was in 4th house.
This can make big difference.


The free traditional astrology software - Morinus (google it), calcualte the Almutem Figuris.
You can find this option by typing F3.
But I should warn you that in that calculation is included some adding of points according to the planets phases.
Zoller did not mention any kind of phases calculation
so at this moment I'm not aware why the author of the software did included that.


But the best way and more enjoyable is to calculate it with your own hand.
You will be familiar with the chart more deeply if you do this calculations with your own hand as the older astrologers did.
And if you must use the Morinus software than subtract the phases scores and you will get the Almutem Figuris right.
All else is the same calculation as the Ezra/Zoller method.


Zoller gives short discriptions for every planet being Almutem Figuris:


Sun:
"If the Almuten figuris is the Sun, the native will want to lead, express his creative power and be recognized."

Moon:
"If the Moon, s/he will want to care for, be cared for, eat and make love, dream"

Mercury:
"If it is Mercury, s/he will be diligent in the sciences, business and communications"

Venus:
"Id it is Venus s/he will be a lover of beauty, of music, of men and women etc."

Mars:
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate"

Jupiter:
"If it is Jupiter, s/he will philosophize and teach"

Saturn:
"If it is Saturn he will retire from society, investigate hidden things and suffer adversity.""

graay ghost
04-13-2016, 01:52 PM
And strangely enough, using Jupiter's method I get a tie between the moon and Jupiter.

Ambitious, I've heard Jupiter/Moon soft aspects are lucky. Yours are out of sign so some people wouldn't count that, though.

Ambitious
04-14-2016, 05:35 PM
And strangely enough, using Jupiter's method I get a tie between the moon and Jupiter.

Ambitious, I've heard Jupiter/Moon soft aspects are lucky. Yours are out of sign so some people wouldn't count that, though.

Lucky but out of sign; story of my life lol. If the degree orb is close enough, I count it and also take into account the different energies associated with it.

Kali
05-07-2016, 04:11 PM
I have similar aspects. My Mars and moon are conjunct and both square Pluto. It's intense. Moon and Mars together gives you the urge to prove yourself. Even if no one else is putting pressure on me, I put pressure on me. Then you add Pluto and Saturn in. Having a Pluto/moon square, I'm positive your statement about no emotional support as a child is understated (how very Saturn square moon of you). But, both Saturn and Pluto square Mars/moon on the MC? Once you've mastered that energy, I would think you would be unstoppable at whatever you pursue. You're going to have a drive and commitment to pursue whatever you want. My experience is that this aspect is one of those that is very good at turning a hobby into a career, capable of not only supporting yourself, but supporting yourself well in the long run and whatever profession you pursue, you'll find yourself leading. Even if you aren't the boss, I would think you would still be a leader, working to keep others on task, always with the goal in mind. I don't think you're just ambitious, I think the moon tied to your Mars gives you a tremendous personal need for accomplishment and both Saturn and Pluto feeding into this would provide the energy to get there.

Maybe the placement in Cancer might be a good thing? I know Mars isn't at home in Cancer, but I'm hoping it softens you just a little and allows for a little balance. I'm imagining a Mars conjunct MC/Mars square Saturn and Pluto boss/coworker as maybe a little aggressive, perhaps even ruthless at times. Here you are, all drive, capability and expectation, working with mere mortals.

Ambitious
05-09-2016, 11:55 PM
I have similar aspects. My Mars and moon are conjunct and both square Pluto. It's intense. Moon and Mars together gives you the urge to prove yourself.

I possess much initiative and put immense pressure on myself to succeed in my career.

Then you add Pluto and Saturn in. Having a Pluto/moon square, I'm positive your statement about no emotional support as a child is understated (how very Saturn square moon of you).

Yes, it probably was worse than I stated in an emotional sense. I have been told I have a high tolerance for difficult situations; what's horrible to some seems 'not too bad' to me.


But, both Saturn and Pluto square Mars/moon on the MC? Once you've mastered that energy, I would think you would be unstoppable at whatever you pursue. You're going to have a drive and commitment to pursue whatever you want.

Right. The key word is 'mastering' these (many) energies. I have been working through rough times for years but continuing to live, learn, and grow as a person during that time. For the past few years, I feel like I have been able to use the knowledge gained from past experiences to help me presently. I have been knocked down many times in life but ALWAYS get back up.

My experience is that this aspect is one of those that is very good at turning a hobby into a career, capable of not only supporting yourself, but supporting yourself well in the long run and whatever profession you pursue, you'll find yourself leading. Even if you aren't the boss, I would think you would still be a leader, working to keep others on task, always with the goal in mind.

Funny, I was always called upon to care for kids in the neighborhood. Only a hobby to make extra money on occasion but can and do use that skill now to support myself and have even done this full time. I actually work in healthcare and, though not in charge, was sometimes put in charge of my coworkers and, yes, was called 'mean' behind my back for being a taskmaster.

Maybe the placement in Cancer might be a good thing? I know Mars isn't at home in Cancer, but I'm hoping it softens you just a little and allows for a little balance. I'm imagining a Mars conjunct MC/Mars square Saturn and Pluto boss/coworker as maybe a little aggressive, perhaps even ruthless at times. Here you are, all drive, capability and expectation, working with mere mortals.

I have only read that Mars in Cancer is indirect and avoidant- Ha!. I am ceratinly direct and have had to fight for not only myself but others too. After thinking about it, does Cancer involve children at all- maybe that is why people like to trust me with their children?

I have been delayed so many times in reaching my goal of becoming a physician but I have never given up and with every tough lesdon I learn, I know I am getting closer to accomplishing this. When all is said and done, I will be ready for this.

Kitchy
07-11-2016, 12:29 AM
I have Mars and Moon conjunct in Cancer also conjunct Midheaven. So far, most everything I have read about Cancer placements (Mars especially) is dour. The Moon is home is Cancer so maybe that is a little better. Although I do have good instincts, I did not receive emotional support as a child nor do I cry easily (the opposite) act indirectly- I am usually square in my dealings with people. I understand house placements may play a part in this but am wondering if the Midheaven has something to do with this also. I see write ups about Cancer Moon and Mars and cannot relate to them much, wondering what happened to mine lol.

My Chart


Personally, I think Mars in Cancer rocks. Probably because I have Mars in Cancer. :love: (Aries on MC - Moon ruled 12th).

We're either crybabies or brawlers, often both, dependent upon tides and aspects.

Moon ruled Mars really aids in fast, quick, responsive actions to emotional hurts. We may be tempests in a tea-pot, but we are compelled to "let it out" and we are not at all averse to see others who are emotionally hurt "let it out." Hence the tears or fist punches.

It's actually a very empathetic placement. Also very protective of those we love - willing to stand up, be point-man in a good fight on behalf of those we love. Literally and figuratively.

The only problem I see with Mars in Cancer is that we can allow ourselves to be bullied - but that usually has more to do with the aspects to Mars or Moon in our charts. In such circumstances - we either crack emotionally by falling to tears or we come out swinging, sucker punches included usually, if it comes to a throw down.

Ambitious
07-11-2016, 04:00 AM
[QUOTE=Kitchy;698665]Personally, I think Mars in Cancer rocks. Probably because I have Mars in Cancer. :love: (Aries on MC - Moon ruled 12th).

We're either crybabies or brawlers, often both, dependent upon tides and aspects.

Moon ruled Mars really aids in fast, quick, responsive actions to emotional hurts. We may be tempests in a tea-pot, but we are compelled to "let it out" and we are not at all averse to see others who are emotionally hurt "let it out." Hence the tears or fist punches.

I'm not afraid of conflict or averse to anyone else's angry outbursts. However, I feel like other people, at times, try to 'calm me down' or 'play nice' even when I am not angry.

It's actually a very empathetic placement. Also very protective of those we love - willing to stand up, be point-man in a good fight on behalf of those we love. Literally and figuratively.

The only problem I see with Mars in Cancer is that we can allow ourselves to be bullied - but that usually has more to do with the aspects to Mars or Moon in our charts. In such circumstances - we either crack emotionally by falling to tears or we come out swinging, sucker punches included usually, if it comes to a throw down.

I was teased as a child but stood up for myself; it only made me stronger. I realize that I have the ability to turn adversities into strengths. I have far more squares than trines in my chart and they all involve Mars and the Moon. Also, I tend to fight violently or, at least, have intense reactions in a fight; you poke me, I punch you.

Kitchy
07-11-2016, 04:46 AM
one of the mars moon indicators - "i can see where this is going - rolling up sleeves or scurrying away in horror - but always to return to finish off the opponents.

it's an occupational hazard, really -