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Jeremy
04-01-2008, 11:44 AM
I am starting this thread in the hope that it is useful to others and that in turn people can add their own insights to the topic; I have made a limited specialisation of medical astrology and some interest in other threads has prompted me to finally type up the notes I have made in my little black notebook, plus a few other general observations. This is simply my source material and a few other pointers as to how I go looking for the root causes of physical ailments, I shall begin with making a few key observations.


You cannot consider the health in isolation from the tone of the entire chart; which is something that all astrologers understand but occasionally forget. A lot of tension to Jupiter from the luminaries suggests an approach to life that tends to over-indulgence and subsequent negative consequences. This manifests in the body as a liver problem, or rather, it manifests anywhere downstream of the liver as a problem, but it is not thus isolated from the psychic attitude to life that is hinted at by stress between Jupiter and the luminaries.
In my experience there is no more important point in the chart for stress-related afflictions than that of Pluto. Interesting, not least because stress is a "modern (that should be post-post-modern) affliction" of course and Pluto is less than a century from discovery. Pluto is the point where the body eliminates that stress, often volcanically. There is more to it of course, but you can use your experience and understanding of Plutonic principles to good effect here.
Pay special attention to any stellia of planets or angles which contain Pluto because this diffuses the elimination point; it could then manifest as a point between Pluto and one of the major angles, or through a conjunction; Saturn if involved might give a tendency to eczema, not least due to the drying effect of Saturn and its influence over the dermis.
Similarly aspects to Pluto might indicate blockages to that elimination or 'vents' for the stress, precluding the need for elimination. A subject with Jupiter in Pisces for example may find that meditation is the solution to their stress-related issues.
Other configurations in the chart indicate various other principles. The Sun represents the overall vitality, moon functional issues, hyleg is important for gauging the constitution. Saturn limts, blocks dries and is cold while Mars heats, Jupiter expands and gives too much flow, Venus harmonises, Mercury quickens and so forth.
Planets also affect systems; Jupiter the liver, Saturn bones and skin, Mercury affects the arms and hands; follow the rulerships. There is too much to list here, you know this stuff. Same with the signs themselves.
Midpoints are often more relevant to medical issues than traditional aspects; especially midpoints between Pluto and other planets or the Asc. A midpoint between Pluto and Jupiter for example might be relevant for someone with liver problems. Midpoints often act as physical points of euilibrium between planetary principles.
Pluto is a tough cookie and always acts in deadly earnest. It requires a great deal of self-awareness and courage to meditate on death but this is the only effective deterrent to Pluto problems. Well, there are others I am sure, but Pluto is the god of the underworld, our personal underworld and the death principle within us; so until we have faced that, we are likely to be rocked with Plutonic dread from time to time, especially as we grow older. There is no easy way to counsel it either, because talking to people about their mortality is the last great taboo, unless they have faced it, accepted and moved forward, in which case they probably won't be consulting with you in the first place. If you know what I am getting at here then you know what I am getting at here, right?
My own belief is that Pluto was revealed to us in 1930 because we have moved into a higher evolutionary vibration; we are therefore wracked by Plutonic assimilation/elimination issues in a way that previous generations were not; this is a new journey for us and containing this intensity was always going to cause difficulties for the generations born since. This is especially prevalent in those for whom Pluto is stresed, angular or otherwise significant in the chart and insofar as medical astrology is concerned it is usually (in my limited experience) at least as important as all other factors combined. I realise that sounds potent, but what is Pluto if not potency personified?
Pluto eliminates via sensitised degrees (as listed below), provided it is able to. It is more likely to eliminate if there are supporting indications, thus Pluto in the latter degrees of Virgo may well give liver problems, but if the chart also contains Moon square Jupiter then it dramatically increases the potential.
The key observation is that the physical body is the final arbiter of the psychic body; we all understand this as astrologers, but it is patterns of behaviour which dictate illness, even if that pattern is conferred at birth; then we are just carrying something over with us. True cure is only possible if we can understand this and face up to our own Plutonic realms. I say look to Pluto's house to see where we need to transform, then we have an insight into our cure and thus our liberation.
Here then are the medical degrees that I have (I got these via email from a friend, don't know the source). It is useful to list all the sensitive degrees in a chart and to look at the midpoints for further insights, promote points associated with Pluto, then Saturn and Jupiter, strong stellia, and the closest aspects and especially midpoints between Pluto and other strongly configured points. Check the Ascendant and lord of the Ascendant too; find the stressed points and blockages, they usually play out in the body in the same areas.

[Jeremy, your list of zodiacal degrees and associated body parts appears to have been lifted from a copyrighted source: Jane Ridder-Patrick, _A Handbook of Medical Astrology_, 2nd ed. (Edinburgh: Crab Apple Press, 1990, pp. 129-139) with only minor changes. She translated the original source, Elsbeth and Reinhold Ebertin, _Anatomische Entsprechunen der Tierkreisgrade_ and she received permission to publish it from Hermann Bauer Verlag, the original publisher. The word-count greatly exceeds the Forum's 100-word limit on copied material, so I am obligated to delete it. Sorry! Waybread]


That's all I can think of for now, please add any further insights if you have them.

Peace,
Jeremy

Arian Maverick
04-01-2008, 02:42 PM
I don't think I have any further insights for you because I am relatively inexperienced in the realm of medical astrology, but I do have a question: does your approach incorporate only traditional aspects, and if so, which aspects do you consider most significant? Also, what role, if any, do configurations such as T-squares, Grand Crosses, Grand Trines, Kites, or yods play?

I ask primarily because I have quite a few quincunxes in my chart but am unsure if such aspects describe any particular vulnerability in medical astrology.

This is especially prevalent in those for whom Pluto is stresed, angular or otherwise significant in the chart and insofar as medical astrology is concerned it is usually (in my limited experience) at least as important as all other factors combined.

This may be subject to personal interpretation, yet I'm also unsure of other factors that might make Pluto otherwise significant in the chart, except perhaps if Pluto was conjunct a personal planet. Do you consider a planet prominent in a chart if it is located in the house typically associated with the sign it rules? In this example, would you consider an eighth house Pluto significant, or not not much because the eighth house is a succedent house?

I am also of the Pluto in Scorpio generation, yet this spans a time of approximately twelve years and is thus not a very personal influence. Does this generational influence lessen Pluto's personal significance in a chart? Do you suppose that there may be an entire generation with typical Plutonian difficulties, or is the placement of Pluto in Scorpio--or perhaps in Leo, where it is said to be exalted--enough to regard the planet as being prominent in a chart?

Arian Maverick

P.S. I have come across this list in my astrological studies, but I cannot remember if the source was reputable. I was also unsure at the time whether one should round up to the nearest degree like one generally interprets Sabian symbols, or more likely, since there is a zero degree present, to round down.

Jeremy
04-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Hi Mav; lots of great questions; I am not sure I can answer them all, at least not definitively, but I can certainly give my views and explain how I've seen things working in my experience.
does your approach incorporate only traditional aspects, and if so, which aspects do you consider most significant? Also, what role, if any, do configurations such as T-squares, Grand Crosses, Grand Trines, Kites, or yods play?

I think it works in very much the same vein as any astrology, the aspects create a relationship between principles as much in the physical body as they do in the psychic one; that is why a major aspect configuration will usually manifest in the physical somewhere along the line. It takes a fairly powerful psychic emanation to punch through into matter of course (I am from the schol that like Ouspensky believes that matter is merely a shadow that is cast by vibration; it is thus the lowest vibratory expression; actually this is exactly how I believe astrology works) and a more powerful aspect pattern creates a greater flow or blockage in the psyche thus it is more likely to manifest into the body. Major aspect configurations, especially t-squares are more likely to manifest in the body.

I should make one important qualification to this because evidently there is a factor of mental health as well, so Neptune I find especially relevant in that regard. It need not be confined to the physical body of course; for example a tight square between Neptune and the Moon can indicate alcoholism, especially if Cancer, Scorpio (or less often) Pisces is involved. This can of course cause functional disorders as a result, and mental health problems which are themselves predisposed by the spiritual tension inherent in the aspect itself. You get the idea and it is the most important thing to remember, the physical is just the last and most urgent emanation of the psychic; so aspects have their psychic inclination which in turn suggests a physical expression. That may include a spiritual, psychological or existential bridge between the two and the bridge may never express in the physical realm at all of course.

I ask primarily because I have quite a few quincunxes in my chart but am unsure if such aspects describe any particular vulnerability in medical astrology.
This might be best served by an example. The aspect creates a relationship but you might not need one I have Jupiter in Leo (27) not in aspect to Saturn in Aries (9). This means that I love to eat, drink and be merry (in true royal banquet fashion) but few placements embody the loneliness of the long distance runner more fully than Saturn in Aries. The two tendencies have no common ground or way of reconciling or communicating, hence it requires some adjustment. I tend to find the two inclinations incompatible, because I have liver problems and when I run a few miles I invariably experience pain emanating from my liver region, it tends along the liver meridian and ends in my right shoulder. The midpoint of my Saturn and Jupiter is around 17 Gemini, which of course rules the arms and shoulders. Actually 14 Gemini rules the shoulder blades, the upper arm is 21, so you will see it is in that region; the midpoint is expressing the incompatibility. I guess when I've learned to express my Jupiter in Leo without the use of food and drink then my running will be easier. The pain only lasts for a mile or so and I am forced to slow my pace until it has passed, but I think it is the increased blood flow through the liver causing the problem. Ultimately it is probably improving my situation.

A very tight quincunx, especially to Pluto will almost certainly be important if you are internalising stress, as the aspects often dictate how we express that volcanic energy - when and if we do. I have more to say on this a question or two further on.

This may be subject to personal interpretation, yet I'm also unsure of other factors that might make Pluto otherwise significant in the chart, except perhaps if Pluto was conjunct a personal planet. Do you consider a planet prominent in a chart if it is located in the house typically associated with the sign it rules? In this example, would you consider an eighth house Pluto significant, or not not much because the eighth house is a succedent house?

An accidentally dignified Pluto is a better expressed pluto, or at least one that is expressed in the most conducive area of the life. It goes without saying that one of the most natural and healthy expressions of Pluto is through sex. Thus an eighth house Pluto will tend to express internalised tension in the best possible place - the bedroom; that can only be helpful. If the chart is unevolved however, it can lend too great a tension to that expression which would perhaps tip the scales the other way; I am not sure how that might manifest.

As for how else might Pluto be made significant, I am with you. It is either significant or it isn't. Gauquelin placements are the most significant, Pluto at the focus of a t-square would be very significant; I think any chart that peronalises Pluto is a double edged sword. If you have it configured, especially at the angles there is some need to make it conscious; which of course is very difficult work for all the reasons we know. The people who have this need and repress it are going to be the most sorely afflicted and they frequently are in considerable pain and difficulty. More on this in your next question.

I am also of the Pluto in Scorpio generation, yet this spans a time of approximately twelve years and is thus not a very personal influence. Does this generational influence lessen Pluto's personal significance in a chart? Do you suppose that there may be an entire generation with typical Plutonian difficulties, or is the placement of Pluto in Scorpio--or perhaps in Leo, where it is said to be exalted--enough to regard the planet as being prominent in a chart?

My belief (I say belief advisedly) is that the Pluto in Scorpio generation are the vanguard for mankind that will finally assimilate Pluto once and for all; they are not the very first, since I believe that those who have powerfully placed Plutos will have explored some of the themes, but these are like the scouts who have taken point for the main body of the army. Once Pluto is assimilated it will be the time for the next step, that may be Chiron, it may be something else, but Pluto is nearing its generational eruption - if you like - and it is the Pluto in Scorpio generation who will bring it about. This is because the internalised stress of the world will be brought into the light and it will allow the world to heal.

I know that sounds kooky, but I am absolutlely certain of it; the vibrational pitch of humanity is oscillating so fast just now, I keep calling these "the last days" without even thinking about it.

I do not believe that Pluto in Leo has the same potential, because Pluto seems too specific to me; that is the Plutocratic placement right? Plutocracy and the tendency to it is what has precipitated the crisis and I believe that the Pluto in Leo generation - although very powerful - are actually the very generation that have raised the pitch too far and caused astonishing misery as a result; the Pluto in Scorpio generation will fix this.

On a personal note I should think that Pluto in Scorpio if prominent will cause great problems for those who do not heed the lessons of that placement, but a great opportunity too for healing once they do. I have a sinking feeling that those for whom Pluto is not personalised might be a little doomed to simply suffer the ravages of Pluto, both psychically and physically with little recourse to healing, since they have no aperture through which to express all that formidable energy.

P.S. I have come across this list in my astrological studies, but I cannot remember if the source was reputable. I was also unsure at the time whether one should round up to the nearest degree like one generally interprets Sabian symbols, or more likely, since there is a zero degree present, to round down.
My memory tells me it was Ptolemy or Lilly or someone of that ilk; certainly reputable if a little out of date! The degree is (00) 00.00-00.59, (01) 01.00-01.59 and so forth, but there is still an orb of effect; you might find someone with a midpoint, Pluto, or other feature at 24 Virgo, and they have gallbladder problems (which is 21-22 Virgo) for example.

Interesting questions amigo :)

starlink
04-01-2008, 08:16 PM
Hi Jeremy, I think Amigo is actually Amiga :)

AM asked the same thing I asked as well in the other post, namely how you view the degrees. There seems to be a slight difference between your list and the list of Anatomical correspondences to Zodiacal Degrees by Elsbeth and Reinhold Ebertin. It seems they started with Aries1 = Cerebrum and your list starts with 00°-0.59' as Cerebrum. Your list gives me with my 11° Leo indeed Spinal problems, whilst 11° from Ebertin gives me Clavicular Vein.
I have spinal problems and dont really know about the Clavicular Vein.
So what do we believe now? I tend to believe this list because there is of course a distance between 29° and 1°. We dont talk about some planet on 30° but we do talk about a planet on 0.01° till 0.59°. I think we really have to compare our own ailments with these degrees like I am doing with this Pluto of mine.

Very nice thread Jeremy. I also am not good at medical, and actually only know Carole is. She might still come on. When I do find something pertinent I will tell you. Cheers, Starlink

Frisiangal
04-01-2008, 11:25 PM
Hi Starlink.

I agree with you that the Ebertin Anatomical Correspondences can be confusing and Jeremy's list takes the prior degree.
Yet there are also discrepencies; e.g. Ebertin's Taurus begins with 0 degrees ....the only sign to do so....and continues up to and including the 30th degree. Jeremy's list agrees with 0-9 but only has 10-11-12 for neck nerves, giving 13th degree as true vocal cords. Ebertin offers 4 consecutive degrees for the neck nerves, with the 14th degree as true vocal cords. In this case does that mean that Ebertin was wrong and there are only 3?
In the copy of the list that I have there is a text that 'omissions and errors are for the account of the translator'. Who knows. Maybe Ebertin simply wrote down the 30 body points per sign and 'the translator' started with 1 degree instead of 0?

I was taught that the corresponding physical compaint began .30' to .29' of a degree of consecutive signs, which brings the degrees somewhat in line with Jeremy's list. With that in mind I corrected my birth time to coincide with an Ascendant on 10.34 Virgo....which correlated to the Ebertin degree physical complaint I suffered from a semi-square (health warning) with Mars......the gall!! Transiting Pluto was conjunct Ascendant when the most traumatic experience of my life occured that was the instigator of the complaint that manifested a number of years later.
I also have a very close Mercury-Pluto square. Pluto is on 6.08 Leo, that correlates to Ebertin's eyesight....but not exactly to what I had been taught. Maybe if I had only seen things more clearly when I was younger, I would never have needed the glasses I have worn since I was 18. :)

Only last week I saw a chart in which the individual suffered from abdominal cancer. Pluto was on 8 Virgo....spot on for Ebertin's abdominal cavity.

To Jeremy:

I haven't read all you have written but am wondering why you do not consider Uranus as 'stress-related' symptons, as per point 2 of your
(hypo)thesis? I was taught that Pluto is the final phase of disease, following the disintegration of Neptune.

Frisiangal

Jeremy
04-02-2008, 10:58 AM
Hi Folks,
With regard to the degrees I am uncertain, I absolutely have no further insight that could be considered definitive. My understanding of other ancient lists of critical degrees is that they are usually denoted from 1 - 30; thus Aries 1 would correspond to the first degree of Aries. Logically, if a sign has 30 listed it must refer to the 30th degree and working in reverse, the 1st degree must therefore represent zero degrees. It is interesting that Ebertin listed 31 degrees for Taurus though, in my view that would certainly explain how my list has only 3 consecutive degrees for neck nerves and his has 4; he certainly has one too many degrees in Taurus, and both lists must have come from a common source. Often the degree is accurate on the list I use in describing symptoms or problem areas; often it is somewhat accurate, so I would not personally point to a degree and claim definitively that it is the key to a health issue; this also because there are many possible sensitive points which come into play. The Pluto point I have found to be nearly always relevant within an orb of 2-3 degrees, so I wouldn't worry too much about which of 17 or 18 degrees is denoted. Of course I am not giving a directive by saying that, only relating my experience which is far from infallible!

Frisiangal, I was intrigued to see that the semi-square you referred to as a health warning because in cases I have studied I have to say that rings true, possibly more than any other single aspect. Do you have any other insights regarding the nature of aspects or is it just the semi-square that works that way?

As for Uranus, I tried to make this point in note 5; quite badly I expect. I do believe that all the planets are indicative of a range of presdisposing factors that are the psychic instigators of disease; just that for the purpose of identifying physical symptoms, Pluto is the most common and urgent point of expression in the physical body. Where it 'erupts', so to speak, from the psychic underworld onto the surface (or into matter). I also find that unless Uranus or Neptune is strong, ruler, Gauquelin or aspected to Pluto then it does not often have much physical influence in the matrix that delineates disease or physical problems. That is hardly scientific though, rather a synthesis of experience and I am fully aware that such a conclusion is informed both by skill and experience, so I may be back here in a couple of years ranting about Uranus and Neptune! :)

Certainly, the Uranian tendency to excitable, erratic and charged psychic states would predispose to disease if afflicted, or rather, if afflicting or causing a blockage.

I am intrigued by your insights and wonder if you might lay them out for inspection, it would be good to expand the boundaries of the topic if at all possible.

Peace,
Jeremy

starlink
04-02-2008, 04:10 PM
Hi Jeremy! Well, because of the differences in the lists, I just decided to say : either this organ or that organ might be afflicted or prone to illness. dont think you can go wrong with that. The person will soon figure out which one it is, like me. The spine was far more "apetizing" than the Clavicular Vein to me.
I found this interesting:I also find that unless Uranus or Neptune is strong, ruler, Gauquelin or aspected to Pluto then it does not often have much physical influence in the matrix that delineates disease or physical problems.
I have a very nice Uranus in the 7th (traditionally angular) and in Gemini and sextile the MC. Gemini seems to be a good place for the mental side of Uranus and probably makes him less prone to emotional erratical behavior.
However, my Uranus is part of a Yod with Moon and Mars..... As inconjuncts are specifically used for medical issues, illnesses, and Mars is the ruler of my 6th house, mmmm...... sooner or later something will come up I am afraid.
But Mars trines my Pluto (a bit wide maybe with 7°) but Mars is in a conjunction with Venus who also trines that same Pluto with 1° orb.
This might maybe that strength could overcome any illness? Pluto is Asc. ruler, Mars as well.

I like this one Frisiangal:


I was taught that Pluto is the final phase of disease, following the disintegration of Neptune.



I just did a horary chart about a question concerning an illness and ruler of the 6th house, was Saturn retro at 2° Virgo. Now Saturn almost going to 1°. I just thought to use the degrees in horary as well and although the suspician was more to do with a sexually produced illness and ovaries, this degree showed appendicitis and Duodenum. I thought that maybe this could still happen maybe or there the person is prone to this maybe.
I once did a horary and mentioned that the querent could have a cough or lung problem. Also ruler 6 in the 1st, but in Gemini. I did not know about the degrees back then, but the querent told me later that at the moment of the question she did not have these troubles but got bronchitis a couple of days later! Interesting that a horary can "detect" dormant illnesses maybe?

Cheers, Starlink

Jeremy
04-02-2008, 04:26 PM
Star,
Interesting that you say that, I PM'd you earlier today with the same idea; the Yod and Moon is where it is all at for you, in my (humble) opinion.

I have found a very interesting quote from an intriguing article (http://astroheal.com/articles/monastic_moon.html) by Ingrid Naiman:

"The disease is, however, always symbolic though few patients are able to see the symbolism of their illnesses. Wasted life force exhibits itself as debility. Congested life force shows itself as surfeit. These are overly simple statements, but when the patient starts to talk, he or she usually sees the meaning of his or her condition. Moreover, people usually see exactly what it would take to reverse the disease and become well; but to become well, the patient must overcome the habits that have been cultivated over long periods of time and which have resulted in the crisis which has brought them to my office."

This is pretty much what I am trying to say about Pluto expressing the psychic condition of the subject; except way more succinctly. Interesting.

Jeremy

starlink
04-02-2008, 09:16 PM
Oh Jeremy, I just dont know what to say. I mean, this article, it says it all, absolutely all. My Moon is not in Virgo, Sagittarius or Pisces, but it is in the Pisces house and the description of what was said about Mars and not being able for a long time to recognize that strength. Oh gee whizz!
During my problems with my exhusband I had lost 12 kilo's in 3 month time. I looked for help and ended up in a sort of course where, with the help of someone who could "feel" you, you would be told what was the problem that got me in this mess. Well, I set on a chair and he just went, in the air, over the front of my upperbody and immediately said that I was only using my Ying, feminine side and never ever had used the Yang and that it was time to start doing that. I told him that he was right of course and told him about my husband having found this 20 year younger woman. He then said:"you are going to give her to him". I just could not believe my ears. But I did in the end. I left him and I never looked back. I forgave both of them and now we are good friends, see one another often, share the same grandchild.
I started using my Mars and first I loved it. I found a fantastic job, learned everything again, typing, working with a computer which I had never done, just very reluctantly. I did a couple of courses and now I am even giving computer instructions to female friends of mine! Not for nothing that I have a son in IT!! It was somewhere in me :). Nowadays I dont like my Mars that much at times. I find myself egoistic at times, I cannot yet totally get used to that Mars energy, which is very me! me! whilst I always did everything for "you" and "them". I have to find the balance here, typical the YOD again. It is the 7th house versus the 5th house and the Moon is the judge.
How very interesting. I will print the article out and maybe even buy the book. Thank's Jeremy.

Starlink

Frisiangal
04-03-2008, 06:20 PM
Hi again Jeremy/Starlink.

So pleased to read that you have discovered Dr. Ingrid Naiman, who I had the pleasure of meeting several times socially as well as academically in the 90's and has truly been the inspiration behind my study of Health astrology. She was then the most spiritual yet down-to-Earth person I have ever encountered and her attitude of 'If you play with fire you'll get burnt' made Medical astrology so much easier to understand. I transcribed the astro. lectures she gave at the Med. Astrology school I attended, sent them on to her, so have much of her original work before it even reached later book form. Her ideas make so much sense.:)

Jeremy: I noticed the semi-square relevancy by accident when working with my own chart, although it must be common knowledge in med. astro. circles.
I then started checking if it was so in other charts. The same applies in stronger form to the sesquiquadrate 135*. Both aspects refer to a difficulty in combining the planetary energies of the aspect, yet I find the difference to be that the semi-square requires the necessary effort to do something and make it work whilst the sesquiquadrate has made the effort but still can't accept and live with an eventual adverse outcome. If the planets in the aspect are associated with the 1st and 6th houses, a physical complaint can result; if it's the 9th house it can be a health aspect....'pill pushing' to keep physical discomfort at bay, so to speak. The quincunx/ inconjunct 150* aspect seems to have much to do with the stress-related issues you mentioned (the natural 150* between first point of Aries and Virgo
and/or Virgo-Aquarius). Ingrid Naiman makes the point that all dis-ease (note the relevance of the hyphen;) ) is stress-related; the inability towards accepting change, as per Saturnal blockade and the Uranus effect.;)

The school I attended followed an holistic/homeopathic idea...The Reckeweg System....adapted to astrological principles. The physical body goes through various stages according to the order of the planets. From memory.... following the emotional (Moon) and mental problems(Mercury), physical dis-order begins with mild bacterial infections and inflammations(Mars) that spread, grow (Jupiter), and become chronic(Saturn). Breakdown of the body occurs (Uranus) that then shows sign of physical disintegration and collapse (Neptune) until all living cells are detroyed (Pluto). As Ingrid pointed out, it's the Uranus period....the ability to make the change that will affect the future...that is vital to stop the finality of Pluto occuring.
Obviously each stage is connected to the planetary ruler of the disorder occuring.

I am not truly familar with horary rules but can appreciate that such a chart (as with Solar Returns) can provide information of occuring physical complaints.
What I have personally never seen....except in a recent thread on this board.... is a physical complaint occuring that is not shown through the planets ruling and/or in the 1st, 6th and 9th houses.

Regards,

Friesiangal

starlink
04-04-2008, 07:31 AM
Hello Frisiangal! from what I read here you are very well equipped! I did not even know that there was an Astrology school specialized on medical! Great!
Was that also in Dairyland? Sounds like Holland, cows, milk and cheese :)
Yes, this lady Ingrid is quite something. Although I am not into medical astrology (I have enough on my plate with natal and horary) I do want to superficially at least, know about some relevant aspects and their workings. I dont get many people complaining about illnesses, but right now I do. She was operated on a semi-malignous braintumor (ever heard of semi? I certainly didn't). I saw health problems big time in her chart, especially now, but more towards Kidneys, so I will have to look a bit deeper into that Aries Moon of her in opposition to Mars. Strangely enough Venus rules her 6th (Taurus) and Asc. ruler is Pluto (modern) in Libra, as well as Mars in Libra. This problem must be found along those lines. Semi-squares and sesquiquadrates I must definitively take more under the magnifying glass so to speak! Thanks for mentioning some info from Ingrids text.
I am tempted to buy the book, even though I am not a medical astrologer. Always handy to have at hand though. Did you tell Carol about it? She probably has it already but you never know.
Cheers, Starlink

Frisiangal
04-04-2008, 06:17 PM
[QUOTE]
Hello Frisiangal!
I did not even know that there was an Astrology school specialized on medical! Great!
Was that also in Dairyland? Sounds like Holland, cows, milk and cheese :)


'Asclepios' was the only school of its kind in Europe but unfortunately closed when its founder was herself diagnosed with breast cancer. A number of schools 'include' medical astrology in the final year, whilst Asclepios's 4-year course spent 3 years on it. Regretfully I didn't complete the final year because it became too medical for me and I had difficulty following it. You really did need some sort of medical training as well. I thought it would be enough to know that e.g. Libra rules the kidneys so look to Libra and Venus when kidney problems arise. It went much further than that; learning the complexity of and relationship between the functions of the different organic systems. But I still have the books...and others... which are consulted regularly.:) Ingrid Naiman gave two weekend seminars there in consecutive years; one on the influence and balance of the elements and the second one on her 'Endocrinology' and Cancer research. Awesome.
I think Carole is actually medically trained and therefore can make the physical links far easier than I.



She was operated on a semi-malignous braintumor (ever heard of semi? I certainly didn't). I saw health problems big time in her chart, especially now, but more towards Kidneys, so I will have to look a bit deeper into that Aries Moon of her in opposition to Mars. Strangely enough Venus rules her 6th (Taurus) and Asc. ruler is Pluto (modern) in Libra, as well as Mars in Libra. This problem must be found along those lines.


(My emphasis)

That would also strike me as a point at which to begin. Mars might even be acceptable as ruler Scorpio Asc.. Tumours are growths, however, so you could also look how and where Jupiter is placed by aspect/transit and/or progression. Such doesn't occur overnight, yet Jupiter is transiting Capricorn now and might be activating the natal pattern.

You might also care to see how MEAN Black Moon Lilith (sorry; no glyph available here but Astro. com charts include it), currently transiting end Scorpio, is placed. My study is showing that it's relationship with manifested disease is becoming more a rule than an exception.

Hope your lady pulls through.

Regards,

Frisiangal

starlink
04-05-2008, 04:10 PM
Thanks Frisiangal for mentioning the Black Moon. Another one of those I actually never really looked at (it sometimes gets a bit too much and in fact we can find everything just by using our basic system) But for finetuning in cases like this, not bad. Yes, I always take Jupiter as a growth factor, sure one to look at. I see her in about 2 weeks and wrote her a short version of her chart to chew on during her holidays. She wrote back that all sounds true and is looking forward talking to me after her holidays.
Cheers and enjoy your weekend! Starlink

Frisiangal
04-06-2008, 09:27 PM
Charmvirgo:
What about Venus?


Had to go find the book, as I couldn't remember until I saw it again.;)

Venus together with Mercury is phase 1: 'secretion'. Just as the body naturally secretes waste products via the metabolism (Taurus), kidneys/skin (Libra), lungs(Gemini) and intestines (Virgo) so, after we have taken in impressions via the Moon, it is necessary to differentiate and discriminate in order to do away with the emotional and mental influences that are not good for us. Unfortunately, as Mercury/Venus are the planets that are associated with relating and love, we don't always do what is best for our body.

Friesiangal

AquariusT
02-27-2009, 05:52 PM
Well done and thanks.

I also have and still use:
Encyclopedia of Medical Astrology by H.L. Cornell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=H.L.%20Cornell)

Awakened_Pisces
03-15-2009, 11:54 PM
This was EYE opening 0_0. And many of it true. Thank god I witnessed 25 degrees Libra. As a sexual freak, I had no idea of that disease. True in that it's non threatening but it is a nuisence. I must thank you from the deepest of my heart.

Awakened_Pisces
03-24-2009, 05:33 AM
I looked up all of my potential disorders and now I know it's for real. It deals with the main symptoms I've seen. God Astrology is scary.

Lost_spirit
06-04-2009, 01:30 PM
I can relate to that.My Pluto is 28 Libra and I may have bronchitis cause I'm a heavy smoker.My Saturn at 3* Scorpio,right side of uterus.I have frequent pains there.
I have one question though.My ascending degree is 2* Virgo (Appendix).Does this mean I may have a problem with this in the future?

unusual_suspect
08-05-2009, 09:16 PM
I can relate to that.My Pluto is 28 Libra and I may have bronchitis cause I'm a heavy smoker.My Saturn at 3* Scorpio,right side of uterus.I have frequent pains there.
I have one question though.My ascending degree is 2* Virgo (Appendix).Does this mean I may have a problem with this in the future?

I discovered I had problems with my kidney this year and my natal Pluto is in Libra, however it is in the 13th degree which was stated in OP as Left Inguinal Gland. The problem was in fact in my Right Kidney which is the 12th degree of Libra. This is so much of a coincidence that it has got me wondering if my mother had got my time of birt slightly wrong.

Rajan Sharma
01-13-2010, 06:02 PM
Dear Group,
I am a newcomer in this community .Being a professional Astrologer (Since last 11yrs) in India we usually follow the Zodiacal Signs of Ancient system(From Aries-Pisces) for finding disease in human body especiallly for Prashna Lagna (Query time Ascendant).Suppose Aries for Head, Taurus for Mouth-Neck, Gemini for Both Arms and Mid of Chest, Cancer for Heart-Lungs-Spinalcord, Leo for Between Chest and Uppar-Abdomen, Virgo for lower Abdomen, Libra for Kidneys, Scorpio for Urinarytrack -Genital Organs , Sagittarius for Hip-Thighs, Capricon for Both Knees, Aquarius for Between Knees and ankles, Pisces for Foot and Toes. I am not so quick in Western Astrology.I am not getting you when you are only emphasizing to pluto in libra sign.It is clear me that there is 12 signs 27 constellation every sign has allocated 30 degree outoff 360 degree in Zodiac. Libra (lies from 2nd part of Chitra to 3rd part of Vishakha) Starts from 6S:20M:00S to 7S:16M:40S of constellation in Zodiac. I am not familiar with the system that how we can devoide a sign in 30 degrees. Kindly give me the list of allocated degees and their effect of pluto in different degrees.I have read that different experts has different views.I will very thankfull to the group if anyone can give me the list of allocating effects.

With regards
Rajan Sharma

Rajan Sharma
01-13-2010, 06:05 PM
Thanks for giving valuable informations

Claire19
03-04-2010, 03:00 AM
I wonder how many will bother to read this very long screed??:tongue:

However I have a 6th house stellium and very interested in alternative medicines such as herbal remedies and I have certification in these. I have Pluto there and the Sun in Leo. I also have a stellium in the 8th house with sextiles from the 6th to there. I have a Scorpio MC as well.
I believe in the mind, spirit, body connection and have a great interest and much material on Medical astrology. THis is a field that requires great caution with diagnosis and cure. I would recommend A T Mann "Astrology and the Art of Healing." :smile:

Ingrid Naimann has a good website and her theories on cancer are very interesting.

lillyjgc
03-04-2010, 03:23 AM
I wonder how many will bother to read this very long screed??

2,234 have viewed it and I personally thought it was excellent.
Claire, I have nothing in h6, but am a qualified practitioner in the following areas:
Reflexology, Remedial Massage,Reiki Master, Bach Flower Remedies.

Venus is my sixth house ruler. Venus is in Scorpio in h11 sextile my mars in h1 and my Mc which is in Virgo-the natural ruler of h6.
I started at Uni studying to be a vet, but due to a scholarship option I changed to Literature. Both those trends are relected in my chart, but not by h6 placements.
Cheers
Lilly

Claire19
03-04-2010, 08:02 AM
I wonder how many will bother to read this very long screed??

2,234 have viewed it and I personally thought it was excellent.
Claire, I have nothing in h6, but am a qualified practitioner in the following areas:
Reflexology, Remedial Massage,Reiki Master, Bach Flower Remedies.

Venus is my sixth house ruler. Venus is in Scorpio in h11 sextile my mars in h1 and my Mc which is in Virgo-the natural ruler of h6.
I started at Uni studying to be a vet, but due to a scholarship option I changed to Literature. Both those trends are relected in my chart, but not by h6 placements.
Cheers
Lilly
Venus in Scorpio and MC Virgo....I see. So what is your Mercury doing as ruler of the MC??
I also have certification in Bach Flower Remedies and Australian Bush Essences. Also nutrition and aromatherapy. Most of my studies I undertook on my Saturn Returns and with Saturn conjunct Mercury in the 6th, not surprising. Plus the Mercury conjunct Pluto and sextiling Mars Venus and Neptune.:happy: I am interested in reflexology and Iridology and am considering study in these areas. I have tried to get a business going, with a website and advertising etc but to no avail. I dont need the money and I guess I have not been hungry enough, to pursue it professionally but do a lot of free consultations and this gives me satisfaction.

Tham
04-08-2010, 05:37 PM
Hi Starlink.
Pluto is on 6.08 Leo, that correlates to Ebertin's eyesight....but not exactly to what I had been taught. Maybe if I had only seen things more clearly when I was younger, I would never have needed the glasses I have worn since I was 18. :)

Only last week I saw a chart in which the individual suffered from abdominal cancer. Pluto was on 8 Virgo....spot on for Ebertin's abdominal cavity.

Frisiangal


6 Leo conjuncts Praesepe, the M44 "beehive" star cluster
that is known fo affect eyesight.

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Praesaepe.html

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Degrees.html


My Uranus is there. Together with Saturn at 26 Sagittarius
where the Galactic Center and Aculeus/Acumen is, I'm ready
for glaucoma and cataracts, which my late mum had.


http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Aculeus.html

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Acumen.html


I've observed that in most cases, Ebertin's isn't accurate,
but when it is, it's spot on, like you said.

There was an Indian guy in the Skyscript forum whose nephew
had congenital diabetes, and one of his malefic planets was
right on the degree which Ebertin gave for "head of pancreas".

venusia
05-13-2010, 05:29 PM
Has anyone been affected so much with health problems as I have? I have saturn transiting my 6th house. I have virgo there as ruler and saturn is currently retrograding. I have had all these little ailments pop up as of last year in June and this past month was very bad. Could all this be saturn's work? Saturn is natally in my 2nd house..... Please let me know ...

thank you :)

venusia
05-28-2010, 06:29 PM
Hello Jeremy,

I have been reading this thread and was wondering if you could look at the my chart that I have previously posted. I have natal pluto in my sixth house. How will that affect my health? I have had a lot of issues now that saturn has been in my 6th and conjuncted my pluto. I went through very bad stress, anxiety, and other issues for the past months. I will be buying the books that you guys have written about on this site because I believe in natural healing instead of taking pills. Well thanks for your help..... VENUSIA

Frisiangal
05-29-2010, 07:29 AM
Has anyone been affected so much with health problems as I have? I have saturn transiting my 6th house. I have virgo there as ruler and saturn is currently retrograding. I have had all these little ailments pop up as of last year in June and this past month was very bad. Could all this be saturn's work? Saturn is natally in my 2nd house..... Please let me know ...

thank you :)

Hi Venusia,
You may not receive a reply to your recent posts here because this thread is a 'sticky'.....more medically astrological informational than deductional of a disorder.
You may do better to post a separate thread on the med. board.
I was unable to open the chart you posted on this thread when clicking on the image:sad:.

venusia
06-01-2010, 06:26 PM
Thank you for your reply... no wonder I was getting no replies. I'll post it in the med. board :)

Snyder
11-15-2010, 10:53 PM
This is such a great explanation,I will probably read more if you threads and posts Jeremy,keep up the good work.

Blackempress
03-29-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm a beginner but the information is marvellous. Gonna stay subscribed for details.

Claire19
03-31-2012, 12:39 AM
For health aspects we look at the 1st house planets, signs, ruler and where it is as well as our 6th house influences. That is all. It is all being made very complicated and ranging all over the chart and certain degrees etc???. Not on.

We can look at the 12th house for conception and the influences that naturally start there. Sometimes we can look at the Moon and its influence for hereditary factors and the Sun for the male influence. But they have to marry up with the ascendant and the 6th house in some way.

Claire19
03-31-2012, 12:48 AM
Hello Jeremy,

I have been reading this thread and was wondering if you could look at the my chart that I have previously posted. I have natal pluto in my sixth house. How will that affect my health? I have had a lot of issues now that saturn has been in my 6th and conjuncted my pluto. I went through very bad stress, anxiety, and other issues for the past months. I will be buying the books that you guys have written about on this site because I believe in natural healing instead of taking pills. Well thanks for your help..... VENUSIA
Can you post a natal chart with the progressions and transits?
I have Saturn Pluto in the 6th also and good on you for going the natural way. I am a natural therapist, no surprise with a 6th house stellium.
Digestive problems can arise with you and diet needs to be looked at and reformed as well as exercise regimes. However I need your chart before further comment. Saturn is the planet of chronic ailments, bone problems and can be kicked off at our Saturn returns. Pluto deals with eliminative processes, bowels, anus, etc., sexual organs and sometimes tumours there. However for Cancer to develop we need at least three aspects and this is not a subject that can be casually diagnosed online. You need to take any advice with a pinch of salt as we are not all medical astrologers. Some are on the way of course. You know who I mean.

Claire19
03-31-2012, 12:52 AM
I'm a beginner but the information is marvellous. Gonna stay subscribed for details.
Did I recommend A T Mann's book on astrology and healing?? It is very good although not perfectly comprehensive. It delineates every degree of the zodiac and what body part it rules. The combination of aspects. etc. Medical astrology is one of my main interests as a healer.

Frisiangal
03-31-2012, 08:38 AM
Can you post a natal chart with the progressions and transits?
........... However I need your chart before further comment.
.................. You need to take any advice with a pinch of salt as we are not all medical astrologers. Some are on the way of course. You know who I mean.

Claire,
Did you notice that VENUSIA's post is almost 2 years old??
The influences are long past and any effects realised.:sad:

dr. farr
03-31-2012, 09:45 AM
Did I recommend A T Mann's book on astrology and healing?? It is very good although not perfectly comprehensive. It delineates every degree of the zodiac and what body part it rules. The combination of aspects. etc. Medical astrology is one of my main interests as a healer.


I have also found the Mann book of much reference value in this field.

secret
02-13-2014, 03:39 PM
Concerning Medical Astrology which chart is recommended for study and posting in asking for help, Natal with transits, progressions with transits or Solar return with transits ??

Thank you for your advice

dr. farr
02-14-2014, 02:56 AM
Fundamentally the natal, plus extensions of the natal (ie transits, directions, progressions)
Solar Return can also be highly significant (for comparison with the natal) But event charts (called "decumbitures") for the time an illness started (if known), or when an accident occured, or (sometimes) when the illness was first diagnosed, can be significant as well.
Horary (particularly as developed in contemporary continental Europe) can often be of much value as well.

secret
02-14-2014, 06:06 AM
Thank you for your reply Dr. Farr

markpattinson902
03-25-2014, 06:13 AM
I am a newcomer in this forum. this is very good forum for discussion and learning.

theartbeing
05-17-2015, 12:32 AM
wow Jeremy this is a great read, thank you

theartbeing
05-17-2015, 12:37 AM
so , I have my moon, jupiter and mercury opposed pluto, does this mean the stress would naturally eliminate or funnel towards pluto? or block it? sorry, im a novice and pay too much attention to little fixed stars, dark goddesses and nodes lol.

CapAquaPis
08-15-2015, 05:21 AM
What would anyone with 8th house Suns are at risk of, esp. those with a Sun in Aquarius at the very house in medical astrology? Speaking of the 6th house, I have a Neptune in it but lays in Sagittarius, the sign rules the thighs. Also a Mercury in Pisces-9th house ruled by Sagittarius. And my Sun conjuncts Moon-ruled by Cancer which is my ascendant sign.

If we consider parazodiacs in medical astrology which I doubt will be taken up, I believe Ophiuchus between Scorpio and Sagittarius may affect the bowels or intestines and Orion between Taurus and Gemini on the neck. Cetus between Pisces and Aries may be the spine or vertebrae holds the human body together from the shoulders (Gemini?) to buttocks (scorpio?).

Loda41
04-13-2017, 08:12 AM
I have a problem with coffee addiction, have been drinking it all my life and now I have headaches and skin rashes on my ankle when I overdue the black beverage. Have quit for a time but regress. Have Scorpio stellium in 5-6house starting with Saturn Mercury and Sun, Venus in 6H. Have Libra Neptune in 5H squaring Cancer Uranus in 2H. Any advice is welcome.