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View Full Version : Saturn combust sun question - general question -need help!


steakpie
07-18-2015, 04:44 PM
well this individual's chart has SATURN 27 DEGREES, SUN 29 DEGREES both in same house, but from what I read, saturn is combust sun really if its 8-15 degrees from the sun....like I obviously have to take it that way, but does it not make sense that in this example ,since its closer to sun, it will be more combust? I know i really have to follow 8-15 degrees , but I'm just curious :)

I ALSO read this:




About The Sun:

One thing to remember about the Sun in conjunction is that it brightens the quality of the planet it comes in conjunction with. It does not get influenced by other planets, but rather illuminates their qualities through sheer brilliance and brightness. This is especially true when the Sun is behind the other planet or has the lowest degree in the conjunction.

isnt it opposite of what combustion means? combustion means the other planet is being burnt isnt that correct?

JUPITERASC
07-18-2015, 07:06 PM
well this individual's chart has SATURN 27 DEGREES, SUN 29 DEGREES both in same house,
but from what I read, saturn is combust sun really if its 8-15 degrees from the sun....
like I obviously have to take it that way, but does it not make sense that in this example ,since its closer to sun, it will be more combust?
I know i really have to follow 8-15 degrees , but I'm just curious :)

I ALSO read this:

About The Sun:

One thing to remember about the Sun in conjunction is that it brightens the quality of the planet it comes in conjunction with. It does not get influenced by other planets, but rather illuminates their qualities through sheer brilliance and brightness. This is especially true when the Sun is behind the other planet or has the lowest degree in the conjunction.

isnt it opposite of what combustion means?
combustion means the other planet is being burnt isnt that correct?

Combust = burnt :smile:

'...A planet is combust when it is in conjunction with the Sun and therefore hidden from sight by the light of the Sun.
Traditionally this is a serious debility and implies that the planet is weakened or restricted in power.
However, if the planet is within 17 minutes of the Sun,
it is termed Cazimi - in the heart of the Sun - and considered strengthened by the union.

In his Introduction, William Lilly stated that the combust planet should be in the same sign as the Sun and within 8° 30'
- beyond this distance, but within 17 ° of the Sun, the planet is said to be under the Sun's beams.
This condition is debilitating, but not as severe as combustion....'


Lilly wrote of this:

"The significator of the Querent combust, shows him or her in great fear, and overpowered by some great person". (CA., p.113)

However, later, in his horary volume, (p.300): he also writes:

A Planet within 12 degrees of the Sun, is said to be under his Beames, and then hath not fortitude, let it be in what Signe it will;
when a Planet is within 16 minutes of the Sun, he is said to be in Cazimi,
or heat of the Sun, and then it's an addition of fortune, and he is wonderous strong http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/combust.html

That aphorism was no doubt translated from the work of an older author,
but it appears to acknowledge the controversy regarding whether a planet can be combust when in a different sign to the Sun.
For a modern discussion of this controversial issue, see the forum thread: 'Combustion (http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=716&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)'.

steakpie
07-18-2015, 07:35 PM
Well I asked this question because astrologers use different degrees for different planets to show accurate combustion and hence accurate predictions, and I put saturn's degrees from sun in the OP , I do understand combust means burnt but thats the confusion here :(

Thanks for the response :)

I got this form tha same thread:


"Here's the wrinkle. First, a word about ranges of degrees. The figures 3, 7, and 15 crop up repeatedly, not just in applications and separations, where they fed into the orb concept when conflated into the Arabic aspect
doctrine, but elsewhere as well. Although the Hellenistic astrologers knew
that the actual visibility of a planet depended on the brightness as well as
the latitude of the planet, they preferred to use an idealized value of 15
degrees from the Sun for the period of under the beams for all five of the
non-luminary wandering stars (whether this was for practical or theoretical reasons will be discussed elsewhere). The Hellenistic astrologers considered a planet in a natal chart to be making a phasis if it would reach or had reached one of the four points defined above within seven days. This means a slow moving planet like Saturn could be making a phasis while only 8 degrees from the Sun, still technically under the beams; the faster the planet was moving, the closer to the 15 degree point it would have to be to make a phasis.
"

JUPITERASC
07-18-2015, 07:44 PM
Well I asked this question because astrologers use different degrees for different planets to show accurate combustion and hence accurate predictions, and I put saturn's degrees from sun in the OP , I do understand combust means burnt but thats the confusion here :(

Thanks for the response :)

I got this form tha same thread:


"Here's the wrinkle. First, a word about ranges of degrees. The figures 3, 7, and 15 crop up repeatedly, not just in applications and separations, where they fed into the orb concept when conflated into the Arabic aspect
doctrine, but elsewhere as well. Although the Hellenistic astrologers knew
that the actual visibility of a planet depended on the brightness as well as
the latitude of the planet, they preferred to use an idealized value of 15
degrees from the Sun for the period of under the beams for all five of the
non-luminary wandering stars (whether this was for practical or theoretical reasons will be discussed elsewhere). The Hellenistic astrologers considered a planet in a natal chart to be making a phasis if it would reach or had reached one of the four points defined above within seven days. This means a slow moving planet like Saturn could be making a phasis while only 8 degrees from the Sun, still technically under the beams; the faster the planet was moving, the closer to the 15 degree point it would have to be to make a phasis. "


Let's compare the sun to an enormous burning fire :smile:
the closer to that enormous burning fire
the hotter it is
and the more combust aka burnt

duenderoja
07-18-2015, 07:50 PM
Combustion only applies in horary - correct? It is irrelevant in a natal chart.

JUPITERASC
07-18-2015, 08:07 PM
Combustion only applies in horary - correct? It is irrelevant in a natal chart.

Combustion applies in natal astrology :smile:

JUPITERASC
07-18-2015, 10:29 PM
One of our members, BobZemco has previously highighted the following factors :smile:


'......What does Sun signify? Well, among things (at least conceptually), strength, energy, vitality and such.
What is the source of that? The Sun's light.
What gives Planets greater power?
For example in Horary, when is Moon stronger?
Moon is stronger or more powerful when Increasing in Light.
Moon is weaker or less powerful when Decreasing in Light. The older terms are Waning (Decreasing) and Waxing (Increasing).
And that is based on synodic cycles.
So as Moon elongates or moves away from Sun, Moon Increases in Light and becomes stronger, up until the Preventional Point
the Moon's opposition to Sun which gives us the Full Moon.
From that point on, Moon is moving toward the Conjunctional
a conjunction with Sun (and a New Moon or possibly even an Eclipse).......'



'.......Planets do the same.
As Planets move away from Sun, they Increase in Light and become stronger
but as Planets move toward Sun, the Decrease in Light and become weaker.
And why is that?
What do [some of] the Planets do?
Well, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn hurl Rays and cast Light (Uranus, Neptun and Pluto do not).
While the Planets actually hurl Rays, they don't really cast Light,
rather they reflect light from Sun.....'



'.....And how do planets reflect light from Sun?
That depends on how close planets are to Sun
and the farther away planets are regarding synodic cycle,
then the more light they absorb from Sun to reflect light back at other Planets.
Everyone see how that works?
It's hard to reflect light when you're over-shadowed by Sun...'


Synodic: a synodic cycle measures successive returns of a planet to its conjunction with the Sun, as seen from Earth.
From the Greek sınodos 'meeting' http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/synodic.html


by the way,
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are too far away from the sun to reflect the sun's light sufficiently to be visible to the naked eye
UNLESS aided by artificial aids such as glasses/telescopes and so on

Uranus is only occasionally - and very rarely - visible to the naked eye
that's why Uranus was not discovered until 13 March 1781
Neptune and Pluto are only visible with the aid of powerful and expensive telescopes

in contrast
Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn all reflect the light of the sun with sufficient brightness to be seen by the naked eye
except of course when Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are all combust :smile: