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Larxene
04-15-2014, 12:16 PM
I have asked this question before in Skyscript, but I am not getting sufficient feedback: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8217

So basically, in traditional texts, what are the significators for cooks and chefs?

My current hunch is a well-dignified and/or well-placed Mars, in harmonious aspect with Venus. The reason is because cooking involves the skilful use of knives and heat, both of which are signified by Mars (Mars -> iron and fire). However, support from Venus may be needed, as Venus gives the ability to make things pleasant to the senses, in this case taste.



Opinions?

sworm09
04-15-2014, 03:02 PM
I have asked this question before in Skyscript, but I am not getting sufficient feedback: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8217

So basically, in traditional texts, what are the significators for cooks and chefs?

My current hunch is a well-dignified and/or well-placed Mars, in harmonious aspect with Venus. The reason is because cooking involves the skilful use of knives and heat, both of which are signified by Mars (Mars -> iron and fire). However, support from Venus may be needed, as Venus gives the ability to make things pleasant to the senses, in this case taste.



Opinions?

William Lilly sort of gives a sliding scale for what happens when Mars is significator of profession, but they all have in common physical or manual labor, or labor near fire.

He says that a well dignified Mars (he even goes so far as to imply that Mars is in sect) indicates a war hero or a general. If well dignified but out of sect, a soldier, horseman etc. If only decently dignified (perhaps having only a minor dignity) it represents less glitzy Martial careers; athletes, metal workers and engineers.

Strangely, it's the weak Mars which indicates cooks, placed in the same category as those who do manual labor, thieves and criminals.

Flapjacks
04-15-2014, 04:56 PM
My thought would be a prominent Venus, Taurus/Virgo, 4H/2H (food, "tangibles", the senses, service to others). Leo might also be a good indicator because it adds flair/creativity, and Cancer which likes to nurture. I like your idea of aspects to Mars from Venus, too, but I don't think they need to be "easy" ones.

Julia Child has Mercury/Venus conjunct in Virgo (Gemini Asc), Mars in Virgo, Moon in Libra (ruled by Venus) and Sun in Leo. These occur in 4H/5H, and Cancer rules 2H. This is somewhat superficial, her chart is really neat, but that fits the pattern so far.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Child,_Julia

I agree Mars is important because it can distinguish someone who is a connoisseur or just enjoys good food, vs. someone who wants to create good food.

Does anyone have other charts to look at? It's difficult to find ones with birth times.

I know someone who was considering pursuing a career in food service and is prideful about his cooking skills. Whenever he prepares a dish it has to "steal the show" so to speak. He has Virgo Sun/Mercury conjunct in 4H, trine Mars in Cap, opposing Jupiter; Libra Moon/Venus conjunct in 5H square Mars, Cancer on 2H cusp. Mercury is chart ruler.

dr. farr
04-16-2014, 03:49 AM
(Historical reference: Vedic astrology has given cooks and chefs to Venus since ancient times)
As one could consider cooking (professional chefs) an art form, I also have considered Venus the likely prime significator for cooks and chefs (also for skill in cooking even if not on a professional basis)

Larxene
04-16-2014, 05:59 AM
Thank you, sworm. I saw that passage before and posted it in the skyscript thread. One can reasonably assume that Lilly follows from and expands on Ptolemy, who also similarly chose Mars as the significator of cooks. (The passage is in that thread).

On the other hand, we have Maternus, who chose Venus as the significator for cooks. There is a similarity with Lilly in that Venus in a dejected house (weak and unfavourable) signified cooks.

Then there is another Maternus passage where Mercury and the Sun are together giving cooks...but of the unfortunate kind.

It seems that for these two astrologers, the culinary profession was a low-class calling. Perhaps that is a matter of cultural perceptions.



Flapjacks, I don't disagree with the use of signs, but in the tradition that I am studying the signs are given resources by the planets, so the nature of the planets would more strongly decide whether one becomes a cook or not. Taurus, I am inclined to agree, because it is the sign of Venus.

But Virgo is Mercury's sign...maybe this will make the person good at measuring the ingredients and be flexible with his hands, but to have the aesthetics I think Venus's influence is needed. So perhaps Venus in Virgo in aspect with Mercury, both receiving each other and having some dignities is one possibility. It is important to remember that Venus is in fall in Virgo, so support from Mercury is necessary.



Thank you, dr. farr. Maybe at the highest level it is an art form, but at the ordinary level I think it is a matter of making food taste pleasant and good, and having the ability to prepare and cook the ingredients. Venus helps with the first, Mercury or Mars helps with the second. Tentatively, this means that if these planets are in harmony with each other and at least one is well-placed, cooking is a potential profession.

However, Mercury well-placed will more likely produce scholars, geeks and nerds, while Mars well-placed will more likely incline people towards fighting and domination. So probably Venus is still the best bet.

!4C
04-19-2014, 02:19 PM
I know someone that could have been a professional in the food industry. I attribute this mainly to her elevated tarurus mars. Mars might be in detriment here, but taurus rules food for pleasure. It only makes sense that mars in taurus would be good for food preparation. She has stamina to cook all day and has a really good sense of heat control and flavor. Over the years, she has decorated many cakes for weddings , anniversaries, and birthday parties. It's fair to say that her popularity is mostly connected with making good food.

Her Chart (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q6C-78iMSsY/Uge4stwTvlI/AAAAAAAAALw/L3-8Nmvylak/s512/AlgolExampleEq.png)

Larxene
04-20-2014, 03:14 AM
Hi !4C,

One of the main things I saw in her chart is that Venus is in the heart of the sun (called "cazimi" in the later arabian tradition). According to the later tradition, this fortifies the planet. The second thing I saw was that Venus and Mars receive each other through their domiciles (mutual reception), and they are in aspect with each other.

This is a nocturnal chart, and although it is a dark chart (no lights above the horizon), I am inclined to choose Moon as the sect light, as she is in the house of her sect-mate and she manages the Ascendant, so she is more suitable as the life-giver for this chart. Thus, Venus and Mars are both of the sect in favour.

By whole signs, Mars is in the benefic 11th house, and Venus is in the benefic 5th house. This increases the favourability of both planets. Venus is the 5th emphasises its symbolism of pleasure (if we follow the later tradition where 5th=house of pleasure). Jupiter closely with Venus also increases her beneficence.

So I think it comes down to all these factors.



Now this is more off-topic, but what was her main profession (the one which she participates in for her livelihood)?



Using Ptolemy's method, and Maternus's rendition of it, I am guessing that it has to do with Mercury. If not Mercury, then Mars. Mercury in the 6th with Saturn...I think a medical business, like pharmacist or nursing, etc...But she may be a housewife too.

astrology3456
04-26-2014, 12:29 AM
could someone please analyze my chart for this specific topic "what makes cooks and chefs" ? thank you. P.S if you see anything else of interest feel free to add your thoughts / input :)

Alice McDermott
04-27-2014, 04:49 AM
I have a daughter-in-law who is a career chef working in a very prestigious hotel.

She has the Sun in Cancer and the Moon in Virgo, with the Moon being the Almuten of the chart together with Jupiter in Gemini. She was born in the day of Jupiter and hour of the Moon. Moon is in Hayz and also scores highest in essential dignity.

She has a Libra MC with its ruler, Venus, in Gemini in the 5th house and conjunct Jupiter.

She cooks a large variety of food and food that requires considerable detail at times.

She has Mars in Gemini and is very quick and dexterous in her preparation, though she has burnt and cut herself a few times.

Alice

Alice McDermott
04-27-2014, 05:25 AM
Hi Laxene

I calculated your chart on Solar Fire v9 and came up with you being born on Eastern Daylight Time of + 4.00, whereas your chart is calculated for Eastern Standard time of + 5.00. I know some places in Ontario don't use Daylight Saving at all, but am not sure if your town is in those locations. Can you find out if Daylight Saving Time was happening on your day of birth?

This chart gives an MC of 27Cancer27 and an Ascendant of 22Libra49, which, on the surface, is much more appropriate for a career as a chef than the chart you presented.

Alice

astrology3456
04-27-2014, 09:29 PM
Hi Laxene

I calculated your chart on Solar Fire v9 and came up with you being born on Eastern Daylight Time of + 4.00, whereas your chart is calculated for Eastern Standard time of + 5.00. I know some places in Ontario don't use Daylight Saving at all, but am not sure if your town is in those locations. Can you find out if Daylight Saving Time was happening on your day of birth?

This chart gives an MC of 27Cancer27 and an Ascendant of 22Libra49, which, on the surface, is much more appropriate for a career as a chef than the chart you presented.

Alice

hi

You posted my chart, so, I think you are talking to me :) in Ontario we use 1hr daylight savings. And I was born in the fall so that would be EST correct ? the chart you posted shows EDT.

astrology3456
04-27-2014, 10:16 PM
hi OP, this is not a very good place to get much feedback either I find :(

weather you come here to learn

or to share :(

Flapjacks
04-27-2014, 11:21 PM
hi OP, this is not a very good place to get much feedback either I find :(

weather you come here to learn

or to share :(

Have you tried posting your chart in it's own thread under "read my chart" subforum? That is usually where such questions are asked. :)

astrology3456
04-27-2014, 11:36 PM
Have you tried posting your chart in it's own thread under "read my chart" subforum? That is usually where such questions are asked. :)

Hi ;)

Yes, but I think I posted the wrong chart. It doesn't help that I am more of an idiot than I thought :sideways: and i don't even know what the correct time zone to put in for the data is, nor do i know which system to use.

For time zone im sure its either EST or EDT, and for system i think that's a matter of preference ? Either way I've seen a few natal chart / wheels that look completely different :surprised:

Alice McDermott
04-27-2014, 11:41 PM
hi

You posted my chart, so, I think you are talking to me :) in Ontario we use 1hr daylight savings. And I was born in the fall so that would be EST correct ? the chart you posted shows EDT.

Hi astrology3456

Sorry about the mixup.

In Ontario in 1983 Daylight Saving started on Sunday, 24th April 1983 at 3.00 am and finished on Sunday 30th October 1983 at 1.00 am, so it looks as though the chart I have posted with Eastern Daylight time (EDT) is the correct one. http://weatherspark.com/history/28448/1983/Toronto-Ontario-Canada.

This chart does show interest in food and an artistic flair in presentation.

I agree that you will get much more feedback in the 'read my chart' section as this area is specifically for traditional astrology techniques.

Alice

astrology3456
04-27-2014, 11:44 PM
Hi astrology3456

Sorry about the mixup.

In Ontario in 1983 Daylight Saving started on Sunday, 24th April 1983 at 3.00 am and finished on Sunday 30th October 1983 at 1.00 am, so it looks as though the chart I have posted with Eastern Daylight time (EDT) is the correct one. http://weatherspark.com/history/28448/1983/Toronto-Ontario-Canada.

This chart does show interest in food and and artistic flair in presentation.

Alice

Hi

Thanks for this, i was born in 1984 not 1983 by the way. for 1984 it was October 28th, so it looks like your chart is right !

astrology3456
04-27-2014, 11:49 PM
Here is a link to my vegan cooking blog by the way :wink:
http://veganstuff4u.blogspot.ca/

Alice McDermott
04-28-2014, 12:25 AM
Here is a link to my vegan cooking blog by the way :wink:
http://veganstuff4u.blogspot.ca/

Your food looks delicious James! Beautiful blend of flavors.

Alice

astrology3456
04-28-2014, 12:25 AM
thanks for this encouragement as well ! :happy:

Larxene
04-28-2014, 03:09 AM
The main focus of this thread is to discuss the indications that make for chefs or cooks. I think it would have been better if you started a thread on the Read My Chart section and then posted that link here asking for interpretation in that post.



I tried casting your chart and it is different from the one you posted. The chart I casted looks the same as the one Alice posted. I checked the time zone issue and it seems that for most places it is unnecessary to adjust for daylight savings time (in astrodienst), and the time zone that was automatically selected did state "daylight savings time", so the one Alice posted should be correct.

Using this chart, assuming the birth time is correct, there is a strong Venusian emphasis. Venus scores above average in favourability and fitness. The Sun being in Venus's sign makes Venus the oikodespotes (using Schmidt's version). She sets the destination of the native.

When using Ptolemy's method of determining profession, none of the three planets are chosen for significator of profession. However the MC's domicile is the Moon and she is in the sign of Venus and is with Venus, so tentatively we might elect Venus as significator of profession. However, Ptolemy states that in such nativities the person only occassionally participates in his profession. What this means is that you may sometimes have a job in the culinary industry but often temporary, and eventually you will switch jobs, probably into a different industry. (Assuming that you are only interested in cooking. Venus signifies many different professions: visual arts, acting, filming, selling makeups and jewellery, music, etc.)

However, if we are to use Maternus's version of the method, he would probably choose Venus as the significator of profession, because she is the only planet of the three that is on the angles.

One other prominent planet is the one that is angular by quadrant house: Saturn. He is the bound lord of the Sun; this makes him the overseer of the destination. My current understanding is that the overseer tells us how the native achieves his life destination (defined by the oikodespotes). Since this is Saturn, it makes the person more methodical, step-by-step or restricting in some way when driving to his destination.

Do you find yourself to be inclined to do things in certain ways when cooking? Like, when frying fried rice, you would put the ingredients into the pan in a certain order, measure the amount of salt with a teaspoon instead just taking a pinch, etc.

I checked your blog, and it does seem that you present your recipe in a step-by-step manner, with detailed explanations. This is quite Saturnine way of doing things :).

astrology3456
04-28-2014, 03:25 AM
Thank you :ofor this very thoughtful and detailed response and sorry for hijacking your thread. :crying:

"Like, when frying fried rice, you would put the ingredients into the pan in a certain order"

yes, defiantly, I often fry things separately and then together at the end on purpose for maximum crispness and no sogginess, even cooking on all sides etc. Very methodical indeed.

" Ptolemy states that in such nativities the person only occassionally participates in his profession"

I would love for this to be on TV or in a magazine. Also, I like to play poker , what about on certain days where I am feeling lucky ? :)

theV
08-14-2014, 02:22 PM
Strong virgo in the chart makes someone a really good cook,like having a virgo moon and also a strong taurus and cancer in the chart also sagittarius.

[deleted non-traditional reference by request - Moderator]

Rick
08-31-2014, 12:28 PM
I STUDIED THIS! A few months ago I analyzed the charts of about 200 renowned/famous chefs from the 18th century till today.
I was expecting to find recurring Cancer and Taurus traits, but it was not the case.
What I did find was Sun trine Moon.....A LOT!! It's also a sign of a healthy family, so these 2 things probably go together.
In about 40 to 50 % of cases, Sun trined Moon, and almost all of those trines were 6 to 8° from the exact trine. I found that bizarre....in so many cases it was like : Sun in Gemini 12°, Moon in Libra 20°.
In sujects who didnt have the trine, there was a sextile, and in a few rare cases a square or opposition.
Another thing I noticed is very often two planets in the same sign....twice. So two and two of something. Example Mars and Jupiter in Virgo, and Moon

[deleted modern astrological reference by request - Moderator]

JUPITERASC
08-31-2014, 06:13 PM
Strong virgo in the chart makes someone a really good cook,like having a virgo moon and also a strong taurus and cancer in the chart also sagittarius.

Strong ceres in the chart makes a wonderful cook

Asteroids are excluded from the Traditional Board


I STUDIED THIS! A few months ago I analyzed the charts of about 200 renowned/famous chefs from the 18th century till today.
I was expecting to find recurring Cancer and Taurus traits, but it was not the case.
What I did find was Sun trine Moon.....A LOT!! It's also a sign of a healthy family, so these 2 things probably go together.
In about 40 to 50 % of cases, Sun trined Moon, and almost all of those trines were 6 to 8° from the exact trine. I found that bizarre....in so many cases it was like : Sun in Gemini 12°, Moon in Libra 20°.
In sujects who didnt have the trine, there was a sextile, and in a few rare cases a square or opposition.
Another thing I noticed is very often two planets in the same sign....twice. So two and two of something. Example Mars and Jupiter in Virgo, and Moon and
Neptune in Aries.

The OP posted this thread on the Traditional Astrology Board

AND

according to the rules
Neptune is excluded from any Traditional Board discussions

i.e.

QUOTE

Traditional Astrology is for discussions on Traditional Astrology only.

Note:

Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700
by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renassiance eras.

Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects
(sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction)
and

excludes modern planets :smile:
(Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,)

non-Ptolemaic aspects,

as well as any asteroids.

The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretetation
and more on prediction.

Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.

Rick
08-31-2014, 08:59 PM
Lol funny you should ignore my whole study because of one word used in an EXAMPLE...

Larxene
09-02-2014, 01:39 AM
Interesting, Rick. Where did you get the charts? What I would like to know is which of the three planets (Mars, Venus, Mercury) are the most prominent as significator of profession in those 200 charts.

Rick
09-02-2014, 12:24 PM
Thanks. I looked up their charts individually with an ephemeris, clicked on their year and checked the day...Ephemerides - Ephemeris for Year 1900 - 2100 Astrology, Horoscopes online (http://www.findyourfate.com/astrology/ephemeris/ephemeris.html)

I'd say Sun and Moon are the main factors...like I said the trine or in rarer cases sextile/square/opposition, between Sun and Moon. I did not notice any other recurring trait. And like I said too, very often 2 signs the same, twice. Like Sun and Mars in Pisces, Venus and Saturn in Gemini...
Almost always 2 signs the same, and in many cases this occurance twice.
Maybe we could draw out their charts together and line them up to make perfect stats...I'm up for it with a little help...:)

Zarathu
09-02-2014, 02:59 PM
All,

It is a tacit agreement to all, that NEWBIES to the forum should know. Anyone can post on the Vedic and Traditional(and Chinese, etc forums).

But you cannot violate the rules of the sub-forum. Those of use who have been here for a long time have learned that this is the only way to keep flame wars from developing.

And those of us who are modern astrologers(myself for example) try very hard not to bite the hand that "birthed" us.

Please don't violate the sanctity of the forum by posting non-traditional astrology on the Traditional Astrology forum. Doing this is considered Trolling by management, and is grounds for banning, and rightly so.

There is one crossover forum: Horary. And this sometimes results if flamings where traditionals and moderns take each other to task. But thankfully moderation steps in before anything like that gets out of hand.

Rick
09-02-2014, 06:39 PM
Zarutha, I had no idea there was a war going in between the different types of astrology. I don't know about horary or other, I'm focused on other things, I never even needed to know it, and I'm sure millions of beginners and intermediates don't know either.
So maybe SOME people do it to troll but I am sure 90% of people do it by accident...
I had NO idea there was a branch of astrology that dealt with Sun to Saturn only...it's a very strange notion to me...

Zarathu
09-02-2014, 07:24 PM
Zarutha, I had no idea there was a war going in between the different types of astrology. I don't know about horary or other, I'm focused on other things, I never even needed to know it, and I'm sure millions of beginners and intermediates don't know either.
So maybe SOME people do it to troll but I am sure 90% of people do it by accident...
I had NO idea there was a branch of astrology that dealt with Sun to Saturn only...it's a very strange notion to me...

Well, Roak, there is, and now you know.

Rick
09-02-2014, 07:36 PM
Why do you call me Roak? Are you a cop?

Zarathu
09-02-2014, 08:24 PM
Why do you call me Roak? Are you a cop?

Same reason you chose to mispell my name. Carelessness?? A slip of the fingers on the keyboard perhaps?:devil:....ROTFLMAO!!

Rick
09-02-2014, 08:45 PM
Obviously your name reminds one of Zarathustra...so I guess I abbreviated it in my mind..but Roak, why choose that?

Zarathu
09-02-2014, 09:10 PM
Obviously your name reminds one of Zarathustra...so I guess I abbreviated it in my mind..but Roak, why choose that?

Dude! Clearly you have a spelling issue. You misspelled my name which is exactly the same as Zarathustra without the "ustra" at the end. You spelled it Zarutha

Its no fun joking with you If I have to explain the jokes.

Rick
09-02-2014, 09:28 PM
Look, you think like that because it's your name and you use it/see it all the time, I just got on here a few days ago, I just discovered this site, and I barely read Zarathustra in school, and I thought your name really was Zarustra, idk why, I just read it that way.
But about the word roak, the only time I saw/heard the word roak was when some guy called me that, and now you. So if there's a joke in there, I don't get it...:)

venuschild
09-02-2014, 09:59 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cQpT7M648Ew/SrJuz1dt91I/AAAAAAAAAPM/6D37mduaFgs/s320/Clint8..jpg http://www.dailyhoroscopes1.com/imgs/celeb/120/10763-0.jpg


Walker

http://www.astro.com/imwiki/adb/nat/I051/I051646.ftKoM1UI1FLvt9aS1KfADw.c2atw.250.jpg
Eastwood


http://www.astro.com/imwiki/adb/nat/I000/I000267.chinDXjlYLU0oj0wGIud.A.c2atw.250.jpg



Rick

Zarutha, I had no idea there was a war going in between the different types of astrology. I don't know about horary or other, I'm focused on other things, I never even needed to know it, and I'm sure millions of beginners and intermediates don't know either.


Astrologie is 9th house, beliefs whether based upon empirical based opinions or our past subjectivity!

Rick

Why do you call me Roak? Are you a cop?

Some people DO NOT get it that when we analyze charts do we argue about what is stronger, what is more relevant?

I mean horaries is arguing about what side(yes or No) has the stronger weight, why muddle it with emotional sentimentality that adds little to the overall verdict!

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=572144#post572144 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=572144#post572144)

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/11/97/59/03/a_duk101.jpg


Was John Wayne and James Arnez, both Gemini Suns born on what day of different years?

http://facebook-coverphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/3411-john-wayne.jpg

Arnez
http://www.astro.com/imwiki/adb/nat/I005/I005689.G1M7XRixSLLV9KIHzHOjmQ.c2atw.250.jpg
Wayne
http://www.astro.com/imwiki/adb/nat/I026/I026061.jM3V1Ga_o84kK2H_zBiGyQ.c2atw.250.jpg


Some people should get over it when other astrologers pegs them: of course GEMINI will not ever omit to it as it's PIDGEON-holeing!

http://www.magicbulletrecords.com/site/bands/active/ides-of-gemini/

http://books.google.com/books?id=FXUonr4YG8wC&pg=PT70&lpg=PT70&dq=%27gemini+pigeonholing%27&source=bl&ots=pI11kDNerE&sig=SONgksImA3WVsSP2fhvV5uexqc0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gToGVNKkEuS3igLcoYDYDA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q='gemini%20pigeonholing'&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=uqe_zWaV4WYC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=%27gemini+hates+to+be+pigeonholed%27%27&source=bl&ots=4oOqXGwqRh&sig=32xLz1xUZo1omMO8hFP9567fZ4o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WDsGVJbGOoasigKql4DADg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q='gemini%20hates%20to%20be%20pigeonholed''&f=false

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=403119491923

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLigmPtfDdM

http://elle64.hubpages.com/hub/Everything-You-Ever-Wanted-to-Know-About-The-Gemini-Personality


WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH COOKING?

MAYBE, it may be best to keep the schizophrenics out of the pot while cooking entre type meals!

ZARATHU why did you interrupt the cooks, my meal is getting cold!:andy::unsure::biggrin::cool::whistling::tong ue::tongue::tongue::tongue:

Rick
09-02-2014, 10:23 PM
Well someone's drunk...and it aint me

JUPITERASC
09-02-2014, 10:49 PM
Zarutha, I had no idea there was a war going in between the different types of astrology.

You are posting on the Traditional Board
This forum has several Boards
including
Vedic
Horary
Chinese
and so on

FOR EXAMPLE
Since you are apparently unaware of the significant differences between different schools of astrology :smile:
There is no 'war going on' between Horary and Traditional

simply

only a newbie would post an Horary question on the Traditional Board

and

only a newbie would post a modern astrological comment on the Traditional Board

so
senior members have stated these facts

I don't know about horary or other,
I'm focused on other things,
I never even needed to know it,
and I'm sure millions of beginners
and intermediates
don't know either.
So maybe SOME people do it to troll
but I am sure 90% of people do it by accident...
I had NO idea there was a branch of astrology that dealt with Sun to Saturn only...
it's a very strange notion to me...

TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY is at least two thousand years old
and
began at a time when there were no computers
so astrologers were necessarily mathematicians and astronomers
who observed the skies
without artificial aids such as computers
at that time
THE SEVEN VISIBLE PLANETS
i.e.
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn
Fixed Stars
Comets
Arabic Parts also known as Lots
were the focus of astrological delineation

Traditional methods continue to work well
so
unsurprisingly
we have a Traditional Board

venuschild
09-02-2014, 11:06 PM
When we weigh horary testimonies, we argue with the stars of what is being stated!

There is no room for war, or the astro family feud, get over it, and do astrology, otherwise are we, or someone just doing DRAMA Dance?

Stop the war do the astrology dance!

Zarathu
09-03-2014, 12:56 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cQpT7M648Ew/SrJuz1dt91I/AAAAAAAAAPM/6D37mduaFgs/s320/Clint8..jpg



Kissing pictures! Can the other pictures be too far behind? Its only a matter of time before the banned pictures start showing up.

Zarathu
09-03-2014, 01:09 AM
Stop the war do the astrology dance!


Do you have some great photos for the astrology dance? Is there an astrology dance hall some where? Is it like the waltz or something a little bit more.....??:innocent:

Larxene
09-03-2014, 05:11 AM
*ehem* Guys, we are getting off-topic. Back to chefs please. I want my pasta...



EDIT: So Rick, I take it that you collected those charts personally? Or did you get 'em from some database?

Zarathu
09-03-2014, 01:26 PM
An easy way to figure the cooks an checks out is to go to the astrodatabank and search on cooks and chefs, and then correlated the combinations.

http://www.astro.com/wiki/astro-databank/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=chef&fulltext=1

There are 98 charts there for Chefs. Im sure that one would begin to see the common elements.

JUPITERASC
09-03-2014, 01:41 PM
An easy way to figure the cooks an checks out is to go to the astrodatabank and search on cooks and chefs, and then correlated the combinations.

http://www.astro.com/wiki/astro-databank/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=chef&fulltext=1

There are 98 charts there for Chefs. Im sure that one would begin to see the common elements.

The OP has a specific question :smile:


I have asked this question before in Skyscript, but I am not getting sufficient feedback: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8217

So basically, in traditional texts,
what are the significators for cooks and chefs?

My current hunch is a well-dignified and/or well-placed Mars, in harmonious aspect with Venus. The reason is because cooking involves the skilful use of knives and heat, both of which are signified by Mars (Mars -> iron and fire). However, support from Venus may be needed, as Venus gives the ability to make things pleasant to the senses, in this case taste.

Opinions?

Zarathu
09-03-2014, 01:52 PM
People have taken pot shots from their own personal things that they like in a chart.

I was only suggesting that if one wanted to actually research this, then this is the way to do it, and I gave a reference to allow someone to do that.

98 charts is enough to figure it out. But I cannot do it here, because this is the Traditional Astrology Forum as we've talked to above. And as such, I would be looking for many things to make the identification which are not part of discussion on this forum. That's OK.

I was hoping perhaps that a skilled traditional astrologer of whcih there are several here would want to take some of those charts and and make some kind of determination for the OP.

amaranthinefall
09-03-2014, 02:47 PM
It's sad, but this thread is a perfect example of the downhill slide this forum has made over the past ~5 years. In times past, moderators would've removed extraneous posts and kept it on topic with a warning post. With that being said, it was usually only threads in "Hot Topics" that needed a warning. Not to mention, much more participation and conversation back then. Most of the really skilled, really interesting people are gone now. The traditional astrologers here should band together and create our own forum somewhere in cyberspace.

Zarathu
09-03-2014, 02:58 PM
It's sad, but this thread is a perfect example of the downhill slide this forum has made over the past ~5 years. In times past, moderators would've removed extraneous posts and kept it on topic with a warning post. With that being said, it was usually only threads in "Hot Topics" that needed a warning. Not to mention, much more participation and conversation back then. Most of the really skilled, really interesting people are gone now. The traditional astrologers here should band together and create our own forum somewhere in cyberspace.

They have one. Its called Skyscript. You might want to try it. Deb Houlding runs it:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/

Unlike AC, there are a lot of professional astrologers there. Here it is made up of 99.99% beginners or even those who know nothing about astrology at all and simply want free analysis.

JUPITERASC
09-03-2014, 07:55 PM
*ehem* Guys, we are getting off-topic.

Back to chefs please. I want my pasta...

EDIT:

So Rick, I take it that you collected those charts personally? Or did you get 'em from some database?


Good question :smile:

JUPITERASC
09-03-2014, 08:32 PM
People have taken pot shots from their own personal things that they like in a chart.

I was only suggesting that if one wanted to actually research this, then this is the way to do it, and I gave a reference to allow someone to do that.

98 charts is enough to figure it out. But I cannot do it here, because this is the Traditional Astrology Forum as we've talked to above. And as such, I would be looking for many things to make the identification which are not part of discussion on this forum. That's OK.

I was hoping perhaps that a skilled traditional astrologer of whcih there are several here would want to take some of those charts and and make some kind of determination for the OP.


Traditional astrologers use ancient texts
and the OP asked


So basically, in traditional texts, what are the significators for cooks and chefs?

My current hunch is a well-dignified and/or well-placed Mars, in harmonious aspect with Venus. The reason is because cooking involves the skilful use of knives and heat, both of which are signified by Mars (Mars -> iron and fire). However, support from Venus may be needed, as Venus gives the ability to make things pleasant to the senses, in this case taste.

Opinions?


HOWEVER

the thread has clearly been hi-jacked

so

the thread
as the OP has already mentioned

needs to go back on-topic

i.e.

the discussion of ancient texts significations for cooks and chefs :smile:

Rick
09-03-2014, 09:32 PM
Larxene, I already answered that question.

amaranthinefall
09-04-2014, 01:52 AM
Skyscript is stuffy. People in the "middle" need a place of their own. Or maybe I just miss the old familiar "faces" of this community... Whatever. :(

Larxene
09-04-2014, 02:38 AM
Rick,

I asked the question again because I didn't understand your response. So you casted their chart individually. That says nothing about where the birth details came from. They could be from friends (200 chef friends!? O_O), from your own record of celebrity chefs, from forums, from your own country or worldwide, etc. But I won't probe any further; we'll leave it at that.



Zarathu,

I am aware of Astro-Databank. I wanted to collect some quotes from traditional authors, and opinions or reasoning from the astrologers here, before carrying out some kind of empirical research. It's wise to do literature review and finding expert opinions before doing any kind of research. It helps to formulate a hypothesis and define the scope of the research.

I'll check out Astro-Databank later when I come back to this research question again. I've got other astrological projects at the moment. The 98 results you found was just about chefs. There will be more results depending on how one searches for the information. That means a lot of work for me >_<

Zarathu
09-04-2014, 03:59 AM
That means a lot of work for me >_<

Oh yeah.... Astrological research is insanely time consuming.

I remember about 10 years ago when I wanted to determine the major characteristics of being a talk show host. With only all the charts for all the know TV talk show hosts back to Jack Paar, it took me about 12 hours of correlating.

Rick
09-04-2014, 01:15 PM
Larxene, I googled famous chefs. I think I simply landed on wiki.
I checked out each of their charts with an ephemeris, which address I gave you!
Let me know if you "got it" this time.

JUPITERASC
09-04-2014, 01:31 PM
Rick,

I asked the question again because I didn't understand your response. So you casted their chart individually. That says nothing about where the birth details came from. They could be from friends (200 chef friends!? O_O), from your own record of celebrity chefs, from forums, from your own country or worldwide, etc. But I won't probe any further; we'll leave it at that.

Zarathu,

I am aware of Astro-Databank.

I wanted to collect some quotes from traditional authors,

and opinions

or reasoning

from the astrologers here,

before carrying out some kind of empirical research.
It's wise to do literature review and finding expert opinions
before doing any kind of research.

It helps to formulate a hypothesis and define the scope of the research.

I'll check out Astro-Databank later when I come back to this research question again. I've got other astrological projects at the moment. The 98 results you found was just about chefs. There will be more results depending on how one searches for the information. That means a lot of work for me >_<




From the works of Sahl and Mash'Allah :smile:
Translated by Benjamin Dykes Ph.D http://www.bendykes.com/sahl.php

ON QUESTIONS
'.... Indeed the 8th Sign belongs to the bakers and the cooks...' page 184

Larxene
09-05-2014, 06:10 AM
Rick,

Okay, now that's clear.



JupiterASC,

Thanks. I was going through Arabic era astrological works the other day and saw that book. I might check it out in due time. It's in my list. There's that characteristic vagueness with ancient texts: 8th sign from the Ascendant, from Fortune/Spirit, from Cancer (Thema Mundi) or from Aries? :happy: Or perhaps it was stated, just not quoted here.

Rick
09-05-2014, 11:03 AM
Ok.
So what do you think, about what I suggested.... about testing a sample of chefs in great detail, we can try and get other people into it, to lighten the workload....and really do a proper statistic.

JUPITERASC
09-05-2014, 11:11 AM
JupiterASC,

Thanks. I was going through Arabic era astrological works the other day and saw that book. I might check it out in due time. It's in my list. There's that characteristic vagueness with ancient texts:

8th sign from the Ascendant, from Fortune/Spirit, from Cancer (Thema Mundi) or from Aries? :happy:

Or perhaps it was stated, just not quoted here.


Gauging from the context
which is from a chapter headed 'ON QUESTIONS'

From the works of Sahl and Mash'Allah
Translated by Benjamin Dykes Ph.D http://www.bendykes.com/sahl.php


SAHL clearly intends to convey that
8th sign from the Ascendant 'belongs to the bakers and the cooks' :smile:

Larxene
09-06-2014, 02:56 AM
Rick,

I am interested, but for this to be of mutual benefit, we will have to work out the details on what exactly each of us wants to get out of the study. For example, you may be interested in the Sun/Moon combinations, whereas I am interested in planets in the 10th, lord of the 10th, planets making a phase, planets on the angles, planets on the 6th and 2nd, which are basically the potential significators of career according to Ptolemy and Maternus. Also, we will need someone with formal experience or qualification in statistics, if we want to do this properly. I only studied mathematics and statistics at high school level, although I know a bit of grade 12 statistics. So we need someone else to do that.

Also, at the moment I am engaged in another project which I hope to complete by the end of this month, so my hands are tied at the moment.

Perhaps we should create a new thread somewhere else to get two or three more people to participate, with specifications on our scope and roles.



JupiterASC,

Right, if that passage is from the horary section (questions), then it is most likely using the Ascendant as the reference point.

Rick
09-07-2014, 02:23 AM
Hey Larxene, I don't have any expectations when I do a study, I try and notice patterns....like the Sun Moon one, I didnt expect it or look for it....I just saw it, cause it was there....
But I will look for those specific things you mentioned. No problem.

Which board should we post it in.. the thread to "recruit" other people?
Does astrotheme have a list of famous chefs with time of birth?
I dont know why you'd want a specialist on statistics, there's nothing easier than drawing stats...I studied stats in college actually, but I don't remember much of it...yet I know how to do it, it comes easy to me.
I can wait a few weeks until you're ready.
Peace

JUPITERASC
09-07-2014, 09:06 AM
Rick,

I am interested, but for this to be of mutual benefit, we will have to work out the details on what exactly each of us wants to get out of the study. For example, you may be interested in the Sun/Moon combinations, whereas I am interested in planets in the 10th, lord of the 10th, planets making a phase, planets on the angles, planets on the 6th and 2nd, which are basically the potential significators of career according to Ptolemy and Maternus. Also, we will need someone with formal experience or qualification in statistics, if we want to do this properly. I only studied mathematics and statistics at high school level, although I know a bit of grade 12 statistics. So we need someone else to do that.

Also, at the moment I am engaged in another project which I hope to complete by the end of this month, so my hands are tied at the moment.

Perhaps we should create a new thread somewhere else
to get two or three more people to participate,
with specifications on our scope and roles.


Specification of scope establishes necessary parameters
and individual roles would necessarily require clarification :smile:


Hey Larxene, I don't have any expectations when I do a study,
I try and notice patterns....like the Sun Moon one,
I didnt expect it or look for it....I just saw it, cause it was there....
But I will look for those specific things you mentioned. No problem.

Which board should we post it in.. the thread to "recruit" other people?


Since the intention is to gather astrological data for study
then our
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT Board is an appropriate area for such a thread

By the way,
there's no way to"recruit" other people
other than to simply create a new thread in RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
then
anyone interested in the particular area of Research and Developent
would simply post their comments
as is customary for any thread

....Does astrotheme have a list of famous chefs with time of birth?
I dont know why you'd want a specialist on statistics,
there's nothing easier than drawing stats...

I studied stats in college actually,
but I don't remember much of it...

yet I know how to do it, it comes easy to me.
I can wait a few weeks until you're ready.
Peace


Statistical analysis is a specialist subject

JUPITERASC
09-07-2014, 09:11 AM
JupiterASC,

Right, if that passage is from the horary section (questions), then it is most likely using the Ascendant as the reference point.


I can confirm that passage is from the section ON QUESTIONS
i.e. horary
Sahl specifies the Ascendant as the reference point :smile:

Larxene
09-07-2014, 11:59 AM
@JupiterASC:

Yep, but if it is from the horary section, we should be careful about applying it to natal charts. It was mentioned several times on Skycript that horary rules and significations may not always be carried over to natal charts.



@Rick:

Well, if you want a specific study with more rigourous statistical analysis, you should formulate some hypotheses to test. :) For example, one of my hypotheses would be that Mars will be one of the significators of profession for many chefs.

Statistics is easy to learn, but not as easy to apply and interpret. For example, you said that you saw many chefs with Sun/Moon combinations. How do you know that

a) this is not due to random chance, and
b) the sample is not biased or unbalanced?

Descriptive statistics is easier, but inferential stats can be tricky to interpret.

Rick
09-07-2014, 12:42 PM
How do you know that
a) this is not due to random chance, and
b) the sample is not biased or unbalanced?

a Because random chance would make it a 10% occurance at most, and here we have at least a 40% occurance.

b what more do you want...it's a large random sample of chefs...lol

Larxene
09-08-2014, 02:37 AM
Hmm, why don't you post your study with the charts in the Research and Development section. Then I can analyse the results.

You can find the section here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=91

You should check the birth details using Astro-Databank (http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Main_Page)http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Main_Page. Among the things you should check is the rating of the chart. Sometimes the birth times are not exact. In this respect, Astrotheme is inferior.

Rick
09-08-2014, 11:57 AM
I didn't write it down...

JUPITERASC
09-08-2014, 02:20 PM
@JupiterASC:

Yep, but if it is from the horary section, we should be careful about applying it to natal charts.
It was mentioned several times on Skycript
that horary rules and significations
may not always be carried over to natal charts.


Agreed, nevertheless interesting to keep in mind :smile:

Meanwhile
aninteresting snippet from VALENS ANTHOLOGY Book 1
FREE translation by Professor Riley http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf'….. (http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf'…..This)

MERCURY
.....this star’s effects go in many directions,
depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the interactions of the stars,
and yields quite varied results.......'

'….MARS brings actions involving fire or iron....'

Larxene
09-09-2014, 01:30 AM
MERCURY
.....this star’s effects go in many directions,
depending on the changes of the zodiac
and the interactions of the stars,
and yields quite varied results.......

'….MARS brings actions involving fire or iron....'


Yes, I noticed that there was probably a lost technique on delineating profession using Mercury; its application and separation, co-presence, bounds, etc. I have only seen this in Valens and Maternus once each, so there's not quite enough evidence. But the idea is certainly there.

About Mars, that quote and others similar to it (found in Ptolemy, Maternus and probably Dorotheus too) is the reason why I made this thread in the first place. Cooking certainly has some relations to using fire, so I think there might be some connection. I have actually seen one delineation (by Ptolemy, iirc) where Mars signifies cooks. But I also saw another delineation by Maternus where Venus signifies cooks.

PD187540
09-12-2014, 10:04 PM
I'd look into a Leo Moon, or moon in the 5th house. I think that's a significator for cooking ability.

JUPITERASC
06-07-2015, 10:12 AM
I'd look into a Leo Moon, or moon in the 5th house. I think that's a significator for cooking ability.

Why a Leo Moon? Also would be useful to have source of 5th house being significator for specifically cooking ability :smile:

cspencer
06-07-2015, 03:17 PM
For a chef, look for Mercury with Sun, and then either Moon separating from Mercury and heading toward Mars, or Mercury in connection with Mars.

In the alternative, look for Venus square Mars, with either in the 10th Place and no aspect from Mercury (including sign aspects), meaning Mercury is in aversion. It would help if Sun aspected Mars or Venus, meaning Mercury would have to be in a different sign than Sun.