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digimon19
03-27-2014, 11:35 PM
Hello everyone.
I want to know what role the dispositor of a planet plays in defining the strength of a particular planet.
When do we look at dispositor to define the power of a planet?

Thank you

JUPITERASC
03-28-2014, 12:10 AM
Hello everyone.
I want to know what role the dispositor of a planet plays in defining the strength of a particular planet.
When do we look at dispositor to define the power of a planet?

Thank you
some tips for delineating the dispositor of a planet sourced from DELINEATING NATAL CHART thread at http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48463 :smile:

QUOTE

1. The good or bad signified by a house emanates from the ruler of the house.
This is the basic rule. The ruler of the house is giver of the material of the house.

Zoller gives the example of his own chart where he has Combusted Mercury in 11th, ruler of 4th. He comments that this kind of placement brings adversity to ones home and dwellings.

2. Benefit in one area of life can be produced by adversity, or even conflict, in another.

Again Zoller gives example from his own chart.
Jupiter in 9th in Scorpio disposited from Mars in 11th: Wisdom coming from conflicts.

3. The delineation tells you the what. The
predictive techniques tell you the when.

7. Position is stronger than rulership.

Aries on 5th house cusp. Jupiter in Aries.
Juptier is having much more important for the issues of the house then the ruler Mars.

8. The planet in detriment can not produce effectively what it promise.


9.The house represents the beginning of a matter, the ruler of the house,
represents the development of the matter, a kind of middle
point, and the final dispositor, i.e. the planet that rules the sign in which
the ruler is placed represents the end of the matter.

10. The planet which is closest to cusp is the most important in the house and dominates the affairs of the house, because of the rule that position is stronger than rulership, unless the ruler of the house is also in the house.

11. Planets can do 3 things. They can produce something,
they can deny something, or they can destroy something once it has been
produced.

Kaiousei no Senshi
03-28-2014, 03:30 AM
Hi again digimon19,

You always want to check the dispositor of a planet, partly because there may be reception, and partly because a planet's dispositor can afflict or bonify them just by their existence. This is especially important for peregrine planets who depend entirely on their dispositor for assistance.

Planets get extra strength and resources for being in the Sign of a planet who is well placed, but will suffer and lack resources while being in the Sign of a planet who is ill placed. This goes back to the idea of the Signs as the literal domiciles of the planets. So, if a planet is staying in the house of the Moon, but the Moon is afflicted, it's like staying with a poor person. You will share in their poverty because they don't have much or good quality things to give you. However if the Moon were well placed then it would be like staying with someone who has a lot, you would share in that wealth and have ample resources to take care of yourself and accomplish what you need.

This becomes even more important if there is an aspect between a planet and its lord, as this is reception. It's especially important if it is a lighter planet being received by a heavier one, as it has just had its management pushed on to it.

digimon19
03-28-2014, 02:10 PM
Hi again digimon19,

You always want to check the dispositor of a planet, partly because there may be reception, and partly because a planet's dispositor can afflict or bonify them just by their existence. This is especially important for peregrine planets who depend entirely on their dispositor for assistance.

Planets get extra strength and resources for being in the Sign of a planet who is well placed, but will suffer and lack resources while being in the Sign of a planet who is ill placed. This goes back to the idea of the Signs as the literal domiciles of the planets. So, if a planet is staying in the house of the Moon, but the Moon is afflicted, it's like staying with a poor person. You will share in their poverty because they don't have much or good quality things to give you. However if the Moon were well placed then it would be like staying with someone who has a lot, you would share in that wealth and have ample resources to take care of yourself and accomplish what you need.

This becomes even more important if there is an aspect between a planet and its lord, as this is reception. It's especially important if it is a lighter planet being received by a heavier one, as it has just had its management pushed on to it.

Greetings, Kaiousei!:wink:

So according to what you said a strong dispositor can help a weak planet overcome its weakness. Thus, weak planet becomes stronger (or/and better?)
Let's make up an example:
A person has Mars in Taurus in 8th House. Thus Mars is weak both accidentally and essentially. But Venus is unafflicted, right on MC in Cancer in for example 9 degree: so it's in its own triplicity,term and face.
So we see that Venus can help Mars become stronger or/and better.
As Mars rules 2nd, 7th and is in 8th house so Mars's results can be to some extent quite good for the matters of these 3 houses. Am I right?

Kaiousei no Senshi
03-28-2014, 03:42 PM
That may not be such a good example after all.

On a basic level, yes. Venus being more powerful can give some resources to Mars, but if they are aspecting one another and especially if they are applying you could argue Venus is pushing power onto our ailing Mars, however, I really doubt Mars would want anything to do with Venus or any power or management she could give him with her being in Cancer.

sworm09
04-04-2014, 05:11 PM
Hello everyone.
I want to know what role the dispositor of a planet plays in defining the strength of a particular planet.
When do we look at dispositor to define the power of a planet?

Thank you

You should always look at a dispositor, often it'll tell you how that planet will act or what it has going for it or against it.

You used the example of Mars in Taurus in the 8th house ruled by Venus in Cancer on the MC. Alright.

It often helps to take all of the Astrological jargon out of things like this if you want to not lose your mind.

Let's say Mars is living in a country, Taurus, a wonderful vacation spot from what I hear.

Well, how does Mars like it there? You already know that Mars is in detriment AND he's peregrine. So in Taurus Mars hates it. His homeland of Scorpio has been in a bitter conflict with Taurus for generations, so the people in Taurus hate Mars and Mars hates them. What's more is that Mars doesn't even understand what the people in Taurus are saying (peregrine), he can't speak their language, he doesn't have any of their currency, and he's sort of wandering from place to place.

Well Venus is the queen of Taurus, but she's currently away in a different country (Cancer) where some of her family members rule (Triplicity), where she owns some land (Term), and she has a nice trade (Face).

Venus can see what's going on in her homeland of Taurus, because she can see Taurus from Cancer; the signs are in a whole sign sextile. She knows that Mars is running around in her country, and she's doing her best to communicate with her government on ways to keep Mars under control.

Meanwhile in Taurus, Mars is running around stabbing people and fighting, but thankfully Venus' message got through and she was able to get a few of the members of her government to calm Mars down a bit; but only a bit. Mars is less angry, but he's still very, very unhappy.

So in this context the dispositorship only stops Mars from being absolutely insane through tempering it a bit. Had Venus actually been in aspect with Mars, receiving it, it might have been a little better....well, maybe not if Venus received Mars from Cancer. Why? Cancer is Mars' sign of Fall; they enslave his people in Cancer, and Venus is in cahoots with the people who are enslaving his people...soooo Mars isn't really going to be open to help from Venus in Cancer, though Venus is still going to try to force Mars to be on his best behavior (through reception).

In this particular circumstance, Mars is going to be a problem regardless. Since you used the 8th house, I'd say that Mars will show a bunch of fighting and conflicts over dead people's money, and a rash nature that may contribute to a violent death.

But let's say that Venus was in Capricorn and in trine to Mars in Taurus. Well, Venus and Mars are friends in this circumstance; Venus is willing to shrug off the fact that Mars is murdering her people, and maybe every now and again Mars will listen to Venus and stop. Venus is still a part of the royal family of Capricorn (triplicity), but Mars is prime minister there. So here, Mars is in a positive relationship with a member of his own government, and thus calms down a bit, helping him out while he's in Taurus and Venus benefits from speaking one on one with the prime minister (though in this situation Mars can't really help her, Venus is actually helping him more).

So if Venus is in the 10th, representing perhaps a female authority figure of some sort (Venus in Capricorn in the 10th) stepping in to calm down a lot of the possible quarreling over inheritance (Mars in Taurus in the 8th), making them much milder. It also tempers a lot of the rash, accident prone nature of a debilitated Mars. Mars in Taurus debilitated could have actually showed someone dying in a dark place, maybe a cave. So our would be cave explorer (if Mars had been without help) may have slipped and fell to his death in a cave. Venus helping Mars out may make him a little more careful.

Your example is very close to what's happening in Adolf Hitler's natal chart. He has Venus in Taurus in the 8th house conjunct Mars in Taurus in the 8th. Venus is able to control what's happening in Taurus, but Mars is still angry through being peregrine and in detriment. Venus receives Mars by a conjunction; i.e. she watches him personally and forces him to be on his best behavior, which only stresses Mars out. Thus Mars is paranoid and violent, and indicates a death characterized by paranoia and violence. Venus rules Hitler's first house i.e. he allowed for his own death and made himself paranoid.

We all know how that ended

Larxene
04-05-2014, 03:19 AM
So, if a planet is staying in the house of the Moon, but the Moon is afflicted, it's like staying with a poor person. You will share in their poverty because they don't have much or good quality things to give you. However if the Moon were well placed then it would be like staying with someone who has a lot, you would share in that wealth and have ample resources to take care of yourself and accomplish what you need.


Firmicus says:
"7. Note also what planet is located in the house or the terms of which particular planet and, if your planet is located in the house of another, look at the ruler of that house to see which house of the chart it is in, whether it is on the first cardinal point of the chart or in the second house or in a passive house; and inquire into its exaltation and fall, as well as into the sign in which it rejoices and in which it is dejected.

8. For if the ruler of the sign is well located, that planet about which we are inquiring also shares in a part of the good fortune of the host's joy. But if the ruler of the sign is dejected in any way, that planet about which we are inquiring, even though placed in a fortunate house, will be hindered by the dejection of that other planet which is the ruler of the sign.

9. This also you can easily observe from human behavior. If you enter anyone's home by invitation and the master of the house has just been blessed with an increase in good fortune, you too become a participant in his good fortune, for you share in the happiness of the good fortune of your host. But if the host is suffering from miserable poverty and is embroiled in the wretched accidents of misfortune, you make yourself also a partner in his grief and trouble and the adversity in which you share overwhelms you too.

10. This is also true of the planets who are rulers of the signs."
[Liber Secundus, page 52]




So according to what you said a strong dispositor can help a weak planet overcome its weakness. Thus, weak planet becomes stronger (or/and better?)


Assuming that the host helps the guest out, most likely yes, the planet becomes stronger and more favourable to the native. The main problem is that most of the time the guest can only act (fulfill its significations) through the host. So whether things end up well depends on the relationship between them as well as the nature of the host.

Kaiousei no Senshi
04-05-2014, 03:29 AM
Firmicus says:

Yes, that's who I was paraphrasing.

SniperBomber328
04-05-2014, 05:37 AM
You should always look at a dispositor, often it'll tell you how that planet will act or what it has going for it or against it.

You used the example of Mars in Taurus in the 8th house ruled by Venus in Cancer on the MC. Alright.

It often helps to take all of the Astrological jargon out of things like this if you want to not lose your mind.

Let's say Mars is living in a country, Taurus, a wonderful vacation spot from what I hear.

Well, how does Mars like it there? You already know that Mars is in detriment AND he's peregrine. So in Taurus Mars hates it. His homeland of Scorpio has been in a bitter conflict with Taurus for generations, so the people in Taurus hate Mars and Mars hates them. What's more is that Mars doesn't even understand what the people in Taurus are saying (peregrine), he can't speak their language, he doesn't have any of their currency, and he's sort of wandering from place to place.

Well Venus is the queen of Taurus, but she's currently away in a different country (Cancer) where some of her family members rule (Triplicity), where she owns some land (Term), and she has a nice trade (Face).

Venus can see what's going on in her homeland of Taurus, because she can see Taurus from Cancer; the signs are in a whole sign sextile. She knows that Mars is running around in her country, and she's doing her best to communicate with her government on ways to keep Mars under control.

Meanwhile in Taurus, Mars is running around stabbing people and fighting, but thankfully Venus' message got through and she was able to get a few of the members of her government to calm Mars down a bit; but only a bit. Mars is less angry, but he's still very, very unhappy.

So in this context the dispositorship only stops Mars from being absolutely insane through tempering it a bit. Had Venus actually been in aspect with Mars, receiving it, it might have been a little better....well, maybe not if Venus received Mars from Cancer. Why? Cancer is Mars' sign of Fall; they enslave his people in Cancer, and Venus is in cahoots with the people who are enslaving his people...soooo Mars isn't really going to be open to help from Venus in Cancer, though Venus is still going to try to force Mars to be on his best behavior (through reception).

In this particular circumstance, Mars is going to be a problem regardless. Since you used the 8th house, I'd say that Mars will show a bunch of fighting and conflicts over dead people's money, and a rash nature that may contribute to a violent death.

But let's say that Venus was in Capricorn and in trine to Mars in Taurus. Well, Venus and Mars are friends in this circumstance; Venus is willing to shrug off the fact that Mars is murdering her people, and maybe every now and again Mars will listen to Venus and stop. Venus is still a part of the royal family of Capricorn (triplicity), but Mars is prime minister there. So here, Mars is in a positive relationship with a member of his own government, and thus calms down a bit, helping him out while he's in Taurus and Venus benefits from speaking one on one with the prime minister (though in this situation Mars can't really help her, Venus is actually helping him more).

So if Venus is in the 10th, representing perhaps a female authority figure of some sort (Venus in Capricorn in the 10th) stepping in to calm down a lot of the possible quarreling over inheritance (Mars in Taurus in the 8th), making them much milder. It also tempers a lot of the rash, accident prone nature of a debilitated Mars. Mars in Taurus debilitated could have actually showed someone dying in a dark place, maybe a cave. So our would be cave explorer (if Mars had been without help) may have slipped and fell to his death in a cave. Venus helping Mars out may make him a little more careful.

Your example is very close to what's happening in Adolf Hitler's natal chart. He has Venus in Taurus in the 8th house conjunct Mars in Taurus in the 8th. Venus is able to control what's happening in Taurus, but Mars is still angry through being peregrine and in detriment. Venus receives Mars by a conjunction; i.e. she watches him personally and forces him to be on his best behavior, which only stresses Mars out. Thus Mars is paranoid and violent, and indicates a death characterized by paranoia and violence. Venus rules Hitler's first house i.e. he allowed for his own death and made himself paranoid.

We all know how that ended

I adored this, absolutely! May you PM me a wonderful natal anecdote of this using my chart? I just loved the way you made a metaphor of everything. It fit so well!

greybeard
04-05-2014, 08:33 PM
The lord of a sign (and any planet in that sign) is called its dispositor.

So, as a first step in understanding the role and the power of a dispositor,
Look up "Dispose" and "Disposition" in your handy-dandy dictionary.

To dispose means "to condition toward something".....to incline toward, put into a receptive frame of mind for, to put in a certain arrangement or place (as a general disposing his troops), to put into final shape, to definitively settle and to control the course of events. That is a pretty powerful position.

Disposition has to do with tendencies or inclinations, acquired or naturally organic, toward something, and a thing having disposition over another has the power and the right to deal with and dispose of it in any way (which the dispositor will do according to its own essential and accidental conditioning.)

If Moon disposes Saturn (Saturn is in Cancer), then Saturn's actions will be largely controlled and modified, and inclined toward, whatever the Moon's conditioning in the chart implies....and Saturn is then ruled by "emotions, feelings", "habitual responses", "need for nurture, dependence" and such other things as Moon rules. A happy Moon will make for a happier Saturn, and an ill-disposed Moon will incline Saturn toward melancholy and depression (and the reasons for this will in large part be determined by the Moon's condition) because she herself is so inclined...and misery loves company.

The power of a dispositor, seen in this light, admonishes us to always examine the dispositor of another planet carefully before interpreting that other planet.

There are two basic kinds of dignity in astrology: essential and accidental. Essential dignity is sign-based. This dignity is inborn, inherited, organic, genetic. It is foundational to the native, and is not subject to change. Essential dignity represents what is inherent in the native. Accidental dignities are based on things other than sign. They are not well-defined in the textbook sense, but experience teaches the astrologer to recognize accidental dignity/debility. Accidental means experiential. Accidental dignities are basically acquired strengths/weaknesses. The earlier in life they occur, the stronger they are likely to be.

This means that we can analyze a planet (on its own, or as the dispositor of another) from these two points of view. What is inherent, what is acquired? The inherent is not subject to change. In the above example of Moon disposing Saturn, if Moon is in Scorpio or Capricorn, there are inherent tendencies in the emotional nature that affect directly the behavior of Saturn. If Moon were in Capricorn, the correspondence of sign (Capricorn) with the planet (Saturn) might serve to ameliorate tensions -- or exacerbate them (Moon and Saturn would probably be in mutual reception). In Scorpio, with little in common (is there a trine?), the situation would probably be worse... subject to careful evaluation of the chart. One aspect of the assessment involves the relationship of essential dignities.

In the chart as a whole, is the dispositor or the disposed the stronger planet, the one more likely to come to prominence or predominance? This sort of thing also affects the interpretation. Other things being equal, the Moon in Scorpio in the 10th with Saturn in the 6th is not the same as Saturn in the 10th with Moon in the 2nd (likely positions in our example).

We face complexity here. To overcome this source of confusion it is a good idea to write down each and every "significance" of a planet. Each and every condition a planet is subject to in a chart has significance in terms of the person and life. In other words, "every statement made by a planet is true." What we must consider is the relative strength of each statement, weighing one against the other and combining them appropriately, in proper balance. Keywords are quite useful, and powerful, in this context. We must also come to understand the relative strengths of the different sorts of astrological symbols in a sort of hierarchy of power: signs are essential, inherent, organic, for life. They are powerful (but they are also variable according to the conditioning of the lord of the sign). "Wide aspect" is not so powerful in the long term, but may be quite prominent in specific situations.

digimon19
04-16-2014, 07:23 AM
I'd like to thank everyone for your help and explanations!