god, grant me the serenity........

to accept the things i cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference...........author unknown by me(?)

I am really glad to have come to this forum...so many of the old posts here are giving me lots of food for thought.........and i like to think.

And this is what I am thinking about.

Most of you all will have heard of THE SECRET.......I understand the principals of the law of attracton........I have brought so much **** to my life, from my negative thinking, so i think its very true.
My problem is that noone wants to feel unhappy, myself included but alot of the time when i try to be positive about something, i end up feeling like I am fooling myself....and the cycle of negativity returns.

I am wondering though can we change the way we truely think about ourselves or does the cosmos dictate to us? As much as i would like to believe that the secret is the answer to getting what you want (emotionally and intellectually, not this materialism bollocks that the movie hones in on), i am starting to think that the pull of the universe is stronger and you only end up getting what you need. I can be positive, but the nagging feeling that i am being a liar to myself when i try to be happy, makes me think I need this negativity to evolve...............
I am at a loss as to what i can change and what i must accept, it seems any wisdom is out the window. I feel that my life has so far brought me a lot of stuff to work with...I dont know if attempting to always get and feel what i want, is prolonging accepting the energy that my natal chart has given me......
It seems my childhood brought me many lessons.( sun and moon in the 12th is a good indicator of what i mean here).....I just dont know whether its just my thinking is Bringing me what i have NOW ...or if its the stars...
(If i were to continue on pretending to be positive when deep down i dont feel that, i actually feel depressed, angry, alone.....you think i would change?)

If this makes any sense to anyone other than myself, i would love to discuss this.....not necessarily in regards to my own chart, but have added my chart to get the ball rolling....

Hello Liquidgreen!

We haven't "met" yet, as I've been off the forum for several months due to illness. I'm still not doing well, but thought I'd dip my toe back in the water, as I do miss this forum.

I don't have anything chart-wise to point out, but I do want to say, "My sentiments exactly!" I've been suffering with the same problems for quite some time, and have prayed "The Serenity Prayer" many times trying to sort though things.

Here is a link to a thread I started on this subject back in the summer, in case you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6010&highlight=tears+clown

Freedomlover

Hi Freedomlover,

I have read a few of your posts........fondly. And i love your name!
I am sorry to hear of your illness...I wish you a speedy recovery.

After just reading your opening thread on your link (thanks by the way, i just wanted to reply with this before i continued on reeading), the first thing i need to say i guess, is that my "thing" is a bit different......my problem is that i dont wear the mask of happiness as often as everyone around me would like me to wear it.....It doesnt feel right....I dont know why i allow my emotions to be so influencial in my life......I usually set myself up for big falls when i think everything is rosey....I attempt it, but it brings outbursts of emotion all at once. I wonder if I am supposed to be wearing the mask...trying harder and longer...if I do, will I end up happier?
I tell people when i dont like them...people i get along with think i need to "wear the mask"....I complain often that i dont like where i am in my life, but is that because i can see the negative in the world/people/life, and is what i am attracting? Or is this my destiny , who I am......

Sometimes i also wonder if I make any sense to anyone but myself........

Freedomlover...enough rambling, going back to yor thread.....thanks for your imput.....see you round!

I totally understand what you are going through! Although I do wear the mask...a lying one! I have to, or else I feel like people will look at me with a negative view and I cannot handle that...people pleaser to the 10th!
I wonder if this is not the issue. I am upset about something, not happy and I am ready to change...just when I make the attempt to change, it gets scary and I back out..leading to a
viscious cycle of
the desire to change, the willingness to change, fear, backing out, leading all to lowered self-esteem! leading to depression and feeling of failure!
This happens a lot to me...so I was unhappy on the floor I was on...I made the committment to change...put in my letter...now I got the job and I am soooo scared!! But the difference this time is that I have set a goal to change and accept the change! I am scared, but I start next week. If I dont like it I have to accept the fact that it was my choice and no one else's so I can live with that...because for the most part of my life I had no choices!
I think that materialism is so focused on in life! If we were to focus as much on our internal workings of our feelings as much as we do trying to make a buck we might be happy. Some people I have come across are so superficial talking about their maids, their cars, their houses and so forth, it makes me sick...most think I am jealous...I am not! I would rather have something within that brings me substance instead of needing money to buy who I am inside...a total arguement with those that I know because they think to be happy you need a lot of money, which is sad because you can find happiness in the most mundane things if you are open to it....like a cold day outside..drinking a warm cup of tea...reading a good book....a good cry
If you dont mind sharing Green, are you speaking about life in general or a specific life issue?
I like this topic as I have felt this way so much in my life...to have someone bring it up and out to the forum takes a lot of courage!!!!

Smilingsteph,
thanks for your relpy.....
I think being aware of your mask is very liberating......I fully understand your need to wear it.....I guess each of us have to decide which neg we are more happy with...the mask, or what you get if you dont wear it!lol

I would like to be able to put into words how this qustion relates to my life but they just dont seem to come out right....so for now this is a question is about life in general......till later

I do think too that the cosmos have a certain influence over us, but it is what we do with that power that makes things either harder or easier on us.
Negativity is what is brought with a negative experience. If a negative experience hits us and we react with negativity then the experience will likely be a negative one...since you say that one needs negativity to grow I think you have the ability to take a negative and turn it into a positive! I think that some of the worst things that have happened to me have made me so much stronger! (at the time I wanted to die)
Growth, what an amazing word...negative experience not so amazing....
Maybe you have been conditioned to think in a negative way because your life was not something to think positive about....so to be negative and think that way prepares you (myself included) for a complete and utter letdown.
Moon and sun in the 12th is a placement for secrets, deep introspection and privacy...
Your moon near the ascendant makes you so sensitive to the feelings of others that you get lost and lose yourself. Some would also say that the moon rising indicates a mother that you had to emotionally feed and take care of, thus losing yourself to that maternal figure
Mercury rising shows that your journey in life is figuring about yourself (which can be a daunting task) Writing for you might be an outlet to express how you feel in a positive way.
Jupter neptune connection shows that your dreams are very important to you but with the hard aspect they are crushed, so maybe with your experiences it is easier to set yourself up for negative things to happen so that you dont fall so hard to the dissapointments.
Yet your saturn jupiter trine shows that you have a tremendous amount of strenght and perserverance to your personality.
Just a thought...as I am new to astrology...
(smiling steph) like the mask I wear, when I am sad inside...
Why the name liquid green?

Your very good smilingsteph........Moon on my asc is what hurts me the most...jupiter neptune aspect..It is easier to imagine the worst....although i long for happiness.....
I am still trying to get out why i have written this question but its hard. I cant see why I HAVE to be miserable, in relation to my chart, but somehow i think i deserve this and trying to be happy wont work, but only give me a roller coaster ride!
alot of this problem has to do with losing both parents at a really young age(sun and moon in the 12th;;;hidden!), and my resilience to that has been telling myself that it was part of the master plan....that i had to be on my own for a reason....and i guess that still continues......

I am liquid green, cos they are two things that have helped me gain some insight to myself........but i'll leave the explantation there!

Gidday Liquid,

Perhaps just allowing yourself to feel sad, angry and alone will be helpful in your case. Many people I work with look at me funny when I say that its ok to be sad. Most people try convince themselves otherwise and in doing so they are restricting their own natural self and their feelings. All that does is makes them sadder.

Sometimes searching for "meaning" in life takes us down some extraordinary paths and in doing so, we get to find out who we really are. I like the way you are finding out more about yourself, for example being on this forum; Doing that in a way you like.

I am wondering though can we change the way we truely think about ourselves or does the cosmos dictate to us?

You ask some very good questions Liquid. If the universe dictated to you that you would be sad for the next ten years would you go along with that?

I would hazzard a guess that your natal Sun has progressed out of the 12th house by now and which represents all the growth work you have already achieved.

best

kingsley

Liquidgreen,

You wrote:

After just reading your opening thread on your link (thanks by the way, i just wanted to reply with this before i continued on reeading), the first thing i need to say i guess, is that my "thing" is a bit different......my problem is that i dont wear the mask of happiness as often as everyone around me would like me to wear it.....It doesnt feel right....I dont know why i allow my emotions to be so influencial in my life......I usually set myself up for big falls when i think everything is rosey....I attempt it, but it brings outbursts of emotion all at once. I wonder if I am supposed to be wearing the mask...trying harder and longer...if I do, will I end up happier?
I tell people when i dont like them...people i get along with think i need to "wear the mask"....I complain often that i dont like where i am in my life, but is that because i can see the negative in the world/people/life, and is what i am attracting? Or is this my destiny , who I am.....

Click to expand...

.

Ah, yes, I understand what you mean now. I'm a little slow on the uptake lately. Well, my first reaction upon reading this was: Well, my God! if you're not wearing the mask, for Heaven's sake, DON'T PUT IT ON! I live in an internal prison because I think the mask got surgically attached to me as a child. I worked on this for years, and still have trouble "feeling my feelings".

However, I keep remembering the wise words of a friend who said, "What you feel is what you feel." I keep that as a constant reminder to myself to not deny my feelings, and thereby let the mask reattach in places where
I've already pryed it off.

A while back, I met an interesting fellow who had Moon exactly conjunct his ascendant. He was very honest and emotional, and very proud of his feelings.

Also, specifically,

I tell people when i dont like them...people i get along with think i need to "wear the mask"....I complain often that i dont like where i am in my life, but is that because i can see the negative in the world/people/life, and is what i am attracting?

Click to expand...

I think honesty is the best policy. However, it is necessary to seek understanding sometimes before we speak. Ideally, one should be wise as a snake, and harmless as a dove. If you are speaking only the truth with no misplaced anger or ill intent, then it's their problem, not yours. There are ALOT of thin-skinned people in this world who take things the wrong way, and only want to hear what they want to hear. Why should you wear a mask to please them?

However, I keep thinking of a quote: "Angels see every one of our flaws and love us anyway." There's nothing wrong with seeing the negative, if you can learn to balance it out - takes practice. Rose-colored glasses can kill you, though.


(I've edited this section after I found the chart. ) I see you have Mercury rising like my mother. She had Mercury in Virgo conjunct her ASC by 2 degrees. She ONLY saw the flaws, and never any praise or encouragement. But yours is in Aquarius, and conjunct Venus. That seems like a very friendly combo to me! I looked this up in one of my astrology books. It says: "The emphasis here is on doing and saying the right thing at the right time. You are charming, gracious, and easygoing." It sounds like I was intuiting the need for this in what I said above.

My book also says this about your Mercury square Uranus: "You are intellectual. It is hard to deceive you. A rebel with a cause, you like to defy authority and you rarely accept advice." My comments are that it probably gives you an ability to "probe the depths", and to call a spade a spade. Some people get very nervous if you can see through their facade.
The only thing I would watch out for with the Aquarius placement is that sometimes Aquarians aren't good listeners, and can be a bit cut off from their feelings. With what you've said, and the square to your Uranus in Scorpio, it sounds like you don't have too much of a problem with your feelings. Although, turning that Mercury square Uranus inward may do you some good in smoothing them out.

Okay, Liquidgreen, I'm gonna quit rambling now, too. LOL. The transiting Sun in Sag is sitting on my South Node in the 11th. I'm blaming it on that.

Liquid Green said:

My problem is that noone wants to feel unhappy, myself included but alot of the time when i try to be positive about something, i end up feeling like I am fooling myself....and the cycle of negativity returns.

Click to expand...

That's the downside of "act as if". I think this little bit of "advice", which often goes along with the philosophy of the people who stress the serenity prayer, can either work very well or be very destructive.

If you pretend to be someone you are not, I don't think this is good.

You are a "12th house person". I feel free to talk about this because I am another with an emphasis there, and an extraordinary people I'm close to have this emphasis.

The downside, as I see it, is the danger of feeling pain so empathically that you can take it on. This is true for me. I need a lot of time to recharge, a lot of private time, and it is very easy for me to get discouraged.

I think pretending to be a "happy shiny person" would be a lie, and any one who knows me would laugh or think me a fake. That's not who I am.

Spending time around "the power of positive thinking" type people doesn't pull me up. It pulls me down. I wonder what's wrong with me. Why can't I just be happy most of the time, enjoy life, "have a party"?

But talking about my darkside all the time is useless, because it just brings other people down, and it pulls me down farther.

My answer: when I'm down, try to reach out to other people who are facing hard times, use my own experience to help someone up rather than to bring someone else down.

It doesn't always work, but it's the most effective way I've found to fight against "the blues".

Gaer

Hi Kingsley and freedomlover,
thanks for your replies.....this forum is a really good avenue for me to be exploring who i am....astrology helps me to step outside myself some what, and writing seems to be the method that allows understanding of what i try to say.....maybe its just that astrologers are somewhat deep thinkers too....not sure on that, but this avenue of discussion seems to work better than the talk I have with those people who i have lives with sometimes....the emotional connections just arent there to get in the way!
I actually have had a hard time since birthing my son 3 years ago, finding a place in life that accentuates and encourages what I hope I am capable of being. I am more than just a mother, but the universe has not given me any openings that i can see at the moment. I am happy to be of service to my son at this time, and to spend my life around him, but i also think its important that he sees me reaching my potential as a role model and for his own development but that is not yet happening..... its the darn merc conj asc squaring uranus......scattered and aquarian....what can i say...i have lots of thoughts but i am not getting much done in life....................

I guess I wonder if I allowed myself to just be happy with my lot.....would I allow more to come?..........(still mulling the whole thread over....life is very complex and deep hey?)......got to go!

life is very complex and deep hey?)......

Not necessarily Liquid.

k

LG, you wrote:

I guess I wonder if I allowed myself to just be happy with my lot.....would I allow more to come?.........

Click to expand...

Well, there is something to be said for that. In the Pentecostal church I used to attend, they had a saying: (Gee, I'm FULL of those tonight )

Praise and be raised.
Complain and remain.

Being grateful for what you DO have opens the door for more of it to come.
(I'm preaching to myself, too. I'm getting better at it though!)

Boy, that Saggie South Node of mine is really being lit up tonight.....:34:

Thanks for reply Gaer.......something to ponder.....
I wonder if i would be able to allow myself to believe that i could help anyone else....in helping others maybe i can..........something to definitly think about.
Actually, maybe its something to look for in my chart.......thanks

Freedom lover,
its not a matter of feeling grateful.....i feel that everyday.....its the wanting more from life.......is thats whats stopping more coming, ......is it possible to be really happy with what you have and then still want more........ is the wanting more an illusion to just be sought after but never attained......I dont know....

Kingsley, No, life isn't always deep and complex.....but I feel inspired and even a little bit happy when it is! normality is driving me a bit bonkers


Thanks guys...

its not a matter of feeling grateful.....i feel that everyday.....its the wanting more from life.......

Click to expand...

Sigh, I DO understand that one, too. If you can feel grateful, that is a wonderful foundation. "its the wanting more from life......"

That made me go back and re-read this:

I actually have had a hard time since birthing my son 3 years ago, finding a place in life that accentuates and encourages what I hope I am capable of being. I am more than just a mother, but the universe has not given me any openings that i can see at the moment. I am happy to be of service to my son at this time, and to spend my life around him, but i also think its important that he sees me reaching my potential as a role model and for his own development but that is not yet happening....

Click to expand...

That is a very "Mercury/Venus conjunct the ASC" statement. Aquarian emphasis is on finding your "place in this world". It may be that something within you, from past conditioning, is blocking you on the inside from manifesting the life you want on the outside. (More "law of attraction" stuff) How much "turning that Mercury square Uranus" inwardly have you done? Venus in Aquarius is very interested in achieving the spiritual goal of feeling "equal" with others, esp. men. Watch for deep subconscious roots. Did you have that type of role model from the women in your family? Are you currently with your son's father in a healthy, committed relationship? If not, why? and if not him, then why not another? Aquarius tends to be too detached, esp, if they do not feel safe or "equal" with men. (I asked you these questions to ask yourself. Please do not feel that I'm asking you post the answers to these, if they are too personal.)

The square in question is between Aquarius and Scorpio. The two extremes of these are:

Friendly equals and deep emotional bonding/forgiveness comes easily/living with "heart wide open".

OR

Detached, rebellious and aloof due to abuse, resentment, etc.

Sexual issues are strongly indicated with Aquarius/Scorpio.

Venus in Aquarius rules your MC, so this is an extra important issue for your particular Venus. You probably have great networking, humanitarian gifts. Do you feel you are using your God-given talents, or do you need to retrieve those? If you need to retrieve your gifts, then chances are they were lost in childhood. Transiting Venus in Libra is currently beginning to transit your MC. Interesting. One might also look into other transits - current and upcoming - to see what opportunities may be arising, if you have not done so already.

All the best,

Freedomlover

LG, you wrote:

is it possible to be really happy with what you have and then still want more........ is the wanting more an illusion to just be sought after but never attained......I dont know....

Click to expand...

I guess alot of that depends on what exactly it is that you are wanting - if it is a true desire or a false desire, and if you are wanting it in the right timing. I have found, personally, that wanting the "right" thing for the wrong reason OR in the wrong time can be just as wrong as wanting the "wrong" thing. Did that make sense?

Liquid Green said:

Thanks for reply Gaer.......something to ponder.....
I wonder if i would be able to allow myself to believe that i could help anyone else....

Click to expand...

Sometimes it's the helping that comes first and the belief that comes later!

Most likely you have already helped someone else by being honest here. When we talk, we never know when someone else is listening who needs to hear what we are saying.

Gaer

Freedom lover and gaer......
thanks again for your posts.
Gaer, I am really glad that you said what you did.....I hope my rambling doesnt annoy people.

Freedomlover ...your edit was very spot on, i would like to discuss my personal life a bit more, because the confusion overwhelms me , but i dont feel now is the right time to talk about the things you mentioned......

This is an example of my life TODAY
i went to pick my son up from a birthday party this afternoon, after talking with my friend (the birthday kids mum) this morning, i was told just to come to pick him up....there were going to be no adults..........when i arrived to pick him up a load of adults (my supposed friends) were all having a grand old time...............................and yet again i was left outta the loop and left on my own. I hate it ........there has to be a bloody reason this keeps happening to me over and over again(being left on my own). Not that it really matters that i didnt go to hang out with a load of mask wearing mums........its the principal of the whole thing ( the deception and the fact that i expected as much.)
i just wanna be cared about, from someone other than my son. ( its not fair that he be filling my cup so to speak, so i can be his mum!!!!!!!!)

I just dont think I am evolving very well at all anymore and am going round in circles (and i checked for one leg missing, thought that might be the reason for my circular commotion, but both are there so i guess it the universe trying to teach me something that i have not picked up yet!)

Ya gotta try and laugh sometimes!

And i betya any money SATURN is the reason for my pain...........the lord of the rings...........bloody depressing planet! (* off to search for positive ways to look at and connect with saturn*)