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fullmoonlibra
11-27-2013, 12:16 AM
I can't find much about it on the internet, but I like to learn more about it.

Why is the Sun in joy in the sagi-house?
Because it's already in exaltion and dominant in the other fire signs??

How inportant is a ninth house Sun?
Does it has the same effect as sun in aspect to jupiter????


I like to know, since I have Sun conjunct north node in ninth house, with aries on cusp, north node in aries and sun in taurus.

may28gemini
11-27-2013, 12:29 AM
It's from traditional astrology. And for the record, houses are not ruled by signs, but by planets.

Traditionally, the 9th house is ruled by Jupiter (and the 2nd house too). The Sun is masculine and diurnal. Jupiter is the Sun's greatest ally. Since the only Jupiter ruled house that's above the horizon is the 9th, when Sun enters his ally's house, the Sun "joys" as he's a welcomed guest. I guess that's the best way I can explain it. This only works if you use whole signs system because this part of Hellenistic astrology and the Greeks used whole signs for pretty much everything.

may28gemini
11-27-2013, 12:34 AM
It also goes both ways and this is also why Jupiter "joys" in 11th house. Traditionally, the Sun rules 4th and 11th houses. Jupiter is like the Sun- masculine and diurnal. Jupiter's greatest ally is also the Sun. Since the only Sun ruled house that's above the horizon is the 11th, upon Jupiter's entrance to the house of his greatest ally, Jupiter is most honored and therefore he "joys" in 11th. Jupiter is also welcomed in the 4th house (the nocturnal home of the Sun) but he's not in an optimal state as he is above the horizon.

IleneK
11-27-2013, 12:38 AM
I can't find much about it on the internet, but I like to learn more about it.

Why is the Sun in joy in the sagi-house?
Because it's already in exaltion and dominant in the other fire signs??

How inportant is a ninth house Sun?
Does it has the same effect as sun in aspect to jupiter????


I like to know, since I have Sun conjunct north node in ninth house, with aries on cusp, north node in aries and sun in taurus.

This link on the joys found in Deborah Houlding's traditional website may be of some interest to you:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1e.html

may28gemini
11-27-2013, 12:46 AM
Yeah, that article is decent but it doesn't actually explain "why" Sun relationship-wise must joy in the 9th house.

IleneK
11-27-2013, 01:34 AM
Yeah, that article is decent but it doesn't actually explain "why" Sun relationship-wise must joy in the 9th house.

Perhaps fullmoonlibra might best judge the value of the reference I made for her benefit?

Deb Houldings' The Houses: Temples in the Sky gives a comprehensive explanation of Sun's association with the 9th house. She says:

The 9th house, traversed by the Sun immediately after noon, was recognized as the temple of the Sun.

Manilius said of it: ..."where the height of heaven first slopes downward from the summit [to the 9th house], [the Sun] nourishes with his splendor..."

So part of the reason may have to do with the diurnal movement of the Sun, the 9th being the place of its fullest radiance.

may28gemini
11-27-2013, 02:01 AM
I never said the OP can't judge. All I said was that the reference doesn't explain why and gives some nonsensical flowery poetic renderings. "Why" asks for the REASON, not some sensory descriptor.

Clinton Soule
11-27-2013, 02:40 AM
IleneK stated:

This link on the joys found in Deborah Houlding's traditional website may be of some interest to you:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1e.html (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1e.html)
__________________
Ilene


AMEN, ASTRO SISTER IleneK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MddZSGefODs/T_3S7_08YMI/AAAAAAAAJCg/9khgfqZsckA/s400/Burt%2BLancaster%2B4.jpg

Think about it, it corresponds to Sagittarius, the idealism, religion, philosophy, travel, higher mind, etc.,

http://www.redorbit.com/media/uploads/2004/10/10_adce38068cda0ece0a1a848ecd7d18972.jpg

http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2010/07/sun-in-9th-house.html (http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.com/2010/07/sun-in-9th-house.html)
.

fullmoonlibra
11-27-2013, 02:04 PM
It also goes both ways and this is also why Jupiter "joys" in 11th house. Traditionally, the Sun rules 4th and 11th houses. Jupiter is like the Sun- masculine and diurnal. Jupiter's greatest ally is also the Sun. Since the only Sun ruled house that's above the horizon is the 11th, upon Jupiter's entrance to the house of his greatest ally, Jupiter is most honored and therefore he "joys" in 11th. Jupiter is also welcomed in the 4th house (the nocturnal home of the Sun) but he's not in an optimal state as he is above the horizon.

Wow!
I have Jupiter transit 11th house now.
And it's in Cancer. So in joy in the eleventh and exalted in Cancer.

Jupiter is also conjunct my sun/moon midpoint at the moment and aspecting IC/MC and natal Jupiter Pisces in seventh positively..

Lots of changes happened during this transit that made me cry and felt hopeless a lot.. So maybe these are changes for the better?

fullmoonlibra
11-27-2013, 02:09 PM
This link on the joys found in Deborah Houlding's traditional website may be of some interest to you:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1e.html

Thank you IleneK :joyful:

fullmoonlibra
11-27-2013, 02:27 PM
Maybe a broad vision, an open mind, religious endeavors (religion is in first place 'mindopening' and not 'conservative' as it is perceived and practiced nowadays) is the best for the character, more than other house specifications and that's why the Sun joys in the 9th house?
Because you can't go wrong with sun in 9th?
But in contrary a sun in 1st can be too egocentric, in 2nd too materialistic, in 3rd too gossipy, 4rd too introvert, 5th too outgoing, 6th too workaholic, 7th too other-oriented, 8th too 'dark', 10th too career oriented, 11th too idealistic, 12th too shy...

But with a 9th house sun you can't be 'too open minded', because the more, the better? It's about growth, and a it's good to be 'fed' spiritually, because that's how human life develops.. We all grow older and get wiser through life...

So maybe that's the reason why sun is in joy 9th.

Funny, I answered my own question, I just needed to think about the 'why'..
As a real sun in 9th house person :joyful: ..

serafin5
11-27-2013, 05:50 PM
It also goes both ways and this is also why Jupiter "joys" in 11th house. Traditionally, the Sun rules 4th and 11th houses. Jupiter is like the Sun- masculine and diurnal. Jupiter's greatest ally is also the Sun. Since the only Sun ruled house that's above the horizon is the 11th, upon Jupiter's entrance to the house of his greatest ally, Jupiter is most honored and therefore he "joys" in 11th. Jupiter is also welcomed in the 4th house (the nocturnal home of the Sun) but he's not in an optimal state as he is above the horizon.

Hey there May28:biggrin: gotta question for ya - you said that Traditionally Jupiter rules the 2nd house and the Sun rules both the 4th and 11th houses? I tried looking that up on the Net and I got some feedback but not enough.

Thanks for your help in advance and I wish you the best turkey day ever!!
Gobble Gobble!

Serafin5

may28gemini
11-27-2013, 06:22 PM
I miss you S5. Actually, I talked about this in another thread.

It's from the Chaldean Order. It goes Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon and that gets repeated around the chart.

The Chaldeans were the ones who created the 12 sign zodiac system (primitive version) and they identified all the planets from Sun to Saturn as important celestial influences and invented temporal hours, which predates the Ancient Greeks. Natal charts weren't used the same way we use natal charts today... we're more into psychology and personalities and what's going on inside the person; modern day, we're too wrapped up in the internal workings of a person. Whereas, before, traditionally, natal charts were used to predict what would happen to you because the main source of concern was what would happen to you in the external world- are you going to marry well? Are you going to die in war? etc. I think the Ancient Greeks used it because the bulk of Hellenistic astrology is predictive and I believe Ibn Ezra used the Chaldean order for natal charts too (he was from the 12th or 11th century).

I've always used the Chaldean Order because my teacher used it and taught it to me...that's why she stressed sticking with the natal chart and from that, not only can I "know" the person, I can also predict what happens to the native. I don't dabble with predictive stuff much since my teacher went into total world retirement, but I kept a lot of foundations she taught me and I apply it to natal/psychological readings.

Maybe this would help.
Page 4 is where it gets specifically addressed but it would be a good read from start to finish.
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sueward/articles/houses.pdf

serafin5
11-27-2013, 08:30 PM
I miss you S5. Actually, I talked about this in another thread.

It's from the Chaldean Order. It goes Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon and that gets repeated around the chart.

The Chaldeans were the ones who created the 12 sign zodiac system (primitive version) and they identified all the planets from Sun to Saturn as important celestial influences and invented temporal hours, which predates the Ancient Greeks. Natal charts weren't used the same way we use natal charts today... we're more into psychology and personalities and what's going on inside the person; modern day, we're too wrapped up in the internal workings of a person. Whereas, before, traditionally, natal charts were used to predict what would happen to you because the main source of concern was what would happen to you in the external world- are you going to marry well? Are you going to die in war? etc. I think the Ancient Greeks used it because the bulk of Hellenistic astrology is predictive and I believe Ibn Ezra used the Chaldean order for natal charts too (he was from the 12th or 11th century).

I've always used the Chaldean Order because my teacher used it and taught it to me...that's why she stressed sticking with the natal chart and from that, not only can I "know" the person, I can also predict what happens to the native. I don't dabble with predictive stuff much since my teacher went into total world retirement, but I kept a lot of foundations she taught me and I apply it to natal/psychological readings.

Maybe this would help.
Page 4 is where it gets specifically addressed but it would be a good read from start to finish.
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sueward/articles/houses.pdf

I miss you too honey; you're my buddy, I love you! Thank you so much for the answer to this mystery too! I kept checking a lot of sites and Googling to no avail!

Have a nice Thanksgiving ok?

Serafin 5

may28gemini
11-30-2013, 03:04 AM
You do realize you can always ask a certain expert about this sort of thing and this person will explain more to you than any sort of Googling!!

serafin5
11-30-2013, 05:08 PM
You do realize you can always ask a certain expert about this sort of thing and this person will explain more to you than any sort of Googling!!

Methinks I may know to whom you are referring :wink:!

Thanks
S5