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Drsendero
09-22-2013, 10:47 PM
I'm wondering if anyone can explain to me what influence the almuten of a house has and how it differs from the influence of the lord of a house when the almuten and lord are not the same planet.

In my chart, for example, the cusps in Aries have the sun as the almuten, yet Mars is the lord of those houses, and the cusps in Libra have Saturn as the almuten and of course Venus is the lord of those houses. Is the almuten some sort of co-lord or secondary lord, or if it's better placed than the lord does it have more influence over the affairs of the house?

tsmall
09-22-2013, 11:09 PM
I'm wondering if anyone can explain to me what influence the almuten of a house has and how it differs from the influence of the lord of a house when the almuten and lord are not the same planet.

In my chart, for example, the cusps in Aries have the sun as the almuten, yet Mars is the lord of those houses, and the cusps in Libra have Saturn as the almuten and of course Venus is the lord of those houses. Is the almuten some sort of co-lord or secondary lord, or if it's better placed than the lord does it have more influence over the affairs of the house?

You know, that isn't an easy question to answer, mostly because it's complicated.

In short, you need to consider both. As a side question, how are you calculating the almutens?

When delineating any degree in the zodiac, there will be different rulers. You have the domicile lord, the exaltation lord (for seven of the signs at least) then there is the bound ruler...and all of those need to be taken into consideration.

The Almuten, or mubtazz is literally the victor, as in the planet that has the most essential dignity at that point. There have been several scoring systems for this over the years, but the basic point is that the planet who is the victor over the topic is most considered as dominating that topic.

Quote from al-Qabisi, Benjamin Dykes, Introductions to Traditional Astrology p. 81

And if you wished to know the planetary dominator of a matter, you will look to see which one of th eplanets is of more authority in the house of the matter, and [lok] at the planet which signifies the nature of that matter...in terms of the strengths which we said before; and the one which was stronger than all the others in the place of the matter, that one will be its dominator.

What you really want to see is which of the rulers of a specific degree are in good condition, in aspect by sign, and use the one best able to actually manage the affairs of the topic.

Drsendero
09-23-2013, 01:28 AM
Why am I not surprised that the answer is complicated? But, I do see what you're saying regarding evaluating the condition of each of the planets that goes into calculating the almuten. Which system am I using? Well, I have the Zet freeware and it says it calculates the almuten using Alcabitius' method. I just pulled out my copy of On the Heavenly Spheres and calculated the almutens using the scoring system they give, and I came up with the same almutens, although Avelar and Ribeiro don't identify which scoring system they use except to say that it's "the most current..." and they do describe some other systems. The system they present gives a planet in rulership 5 pts., exaltation - 4, triplicity - 3, term - 2, and face - 1. Is this Alcabitius'?

So, here's what I'm figuring based upon your response and the system from Avelar & Ribeiro (and possibly the same as in Zet). For the Aries and Libra degrees I mentioned in my first post, both Saturn and the Sun rack up points for exaltation and triplicity (7 pts.) with the runners up being the rulership planets for 5 points each. In addition, I note in my chart that Saturn is very strongly placed on the ascendant, giving it a boost over a fairly modest Venus, and Mars is poorly placed (cadent and in detriment) thus I presume giving the Sun an additional edge even though it has no particularly spectacular dignities. Is this a reasonable line of thought?

tsmall
09-23-2013, 01:49 AM
Why am I not surprised that the answer is complicated? But, I do see what you're saying regarding evaluating the condition of each of the planets that goes into calculating the almuten. Which system am I using? Well, I have the Zet freeware and it says it calculates the almuten using Alcabitius' method. I just pulled out my copy of On the Heavenly Spheres and calculated the almutens using the scoring system they give, and I came up with the same almutens, although Avelar and Ribeiro don't identify which scoring system they use except to say that it's "the most current..." and they do describe some other systems. The system they present gives a planet in rulership 5 pts., exaltation - 4, triplicity - 3, term - 2, and face - 1. Is this Alcabitius'?

Let me first say that I too am a student, so I can answer to what I know, and will have to leave the rest. Is it Alcabitius? I have no idea. Is it what Lilly used? Yes. I also believe it leaves a few considerations out, and I'm not a fan of weighted point scoring systems. I believe the best way to consider a planet's condition is to consider everything, and give 1 point or -1 point for it...with the possible exception of giving 2 pts for exaltation.

So, here's what I'm figuring based upon your response and the system from Avelar & Ribeiro (and possibly the same as in Zet). For the Aries and Libra degrees I mentioned in my first post, both Saturn and the Sun rack up points for exaltation and triplicity (7 pts.) with the runners up being the rulership planets for 5 points each. In addition, I note in my chart that Saturn is very strongly placed on the ascendant, giving it a boost over a fairly modest Venus, and Mars is poorly placed (cadent and in detriment) thus I presume giving the Sun an additional edge even though it has no particularly spectacular dignities. Is this a reasonable line of thought?

It is entirely reasonable and totally in keeping with what is out there today for a weighted scoring system. That said...posting a chart would help to show it better...

dr. farr
09-23-2013, 02:43 AM
It is my opinion (as it was in the case of Antiochus of Athens, al-Kindi and Thabit ibn Qurra, all writing prior to the 11th century AD) that whether the degree involved is a pitted degree or an elevated degree, also needs to be taken into account when making the assessment (this consideration of pitted/elevated degrees in making these types of assessments, seems to have been dropped after about the 1100's)

tsmall
09-23-2013, 03:01 AM
It is my opinion (as it was in the case of Antiochus of Athens, al-Kindi and Thabit ibn Qurra, all writing prior to the 11th century AD) that whether the degree involved is a pitted degree or an elevated degree, also needs to be taken into account when making the assessment (this consideration of pitted/elevated degrees in making these types of assessments, seems to have been dropped after about the 1100's)

I quite agree. I thought but obviously forgot to mention considerations such as degree influences, sect, phase, phasis...there is much, much more to it than simply dignity.

Drsendero
09-24-2013, 01:25 AM
Thanks both of you for addressing the topic so thoroughly. I'll admit to not being a fan of scoring dignities to figure things out, it seems so artificial. But, if one has a lot of variables, I can see how weighing the various components can be one way to sort through them and decide which are likely more relevant than others. But, as you both are saying, there are other considerations that aren't taken into account in the system I have above.

In any case, I guess my original question has been answered, that the almuten (however one calculates it) is the "victor" and therefore best able to manage the affairs in the house in question. It's not a co-lord or anything like that.

Konrad
09-24-2013, 06:38 AM
Thanks both of you for addressing the topic so thoroughly. I'll admit to not being a fan of scoring dignities to figure things out, it seems so artificial. But, if one has a lot of variables, I can see how weighing the various components can be one way to sort through them and decide which are likely more relevant than others. But, as you both are saying, there are other considerations that aren't taken into account in the system I have above.

In any case, I guess my original question has been answered, that the almuten (however one calculates it) is the "victor" and therefore best able to manage the affairs in the house in question. It's not a co-lord or anything like that.

I would completely disagree with that. The domicile lord is always the one who manages the affairs of the sign (or at least tries to). The other lords do different things, and I'd be especially wary of using the exalted planet as a manager of anything since we don't really know why the planets are exalted where they are (or even where as the Babylonians did not use the Ptolemaic tropical zodiac) and what the function of an exalted planet is. Being an 'honoured guest' to use the ancient analogy doesn't sound like one who would be doing much work in and for that sign where they are exalted.

Considering what is 'known' about the other lords - about how they were assigned and how we are told to use them - I think just adding them to the other diginities blindly is erroneous. Take the triplicities. They seem to be used for supporting the manifestations of the sign and generally support the domicile lord in its own actions. Should then the triplicity lord supercede the domicile lord in managing the affairs of the Sun, for example, if it also happens to be the bound lord just because it has two functions? It doesn't really make sense. If your butler is also your gardener that doesn't mean he is also now the owner of your house, does it?

Paul_
09-24-2013, 10:53 AM
Personally, like Konrad, I still see the domicile lord as the one who disposes of the affairs of those who sojourn in its house. However, the almuten may be a powerful figure associated with the house and so if the lord is away from the house and cannot see it, the almuten may step up to signify the matters pertaining to the house.

Occasionally you see where horary astrologers will see if the lord of the ascendant can aspect its domicile and if not they may pass signification for the querent over to the almuten of that house on the provisio that the almuten is able to see the house.

Drsendero
09-25-2013, 12:32 AM
Thanks for the additional perspectives, Konrad and Paul. I've been studying astrology on and off for decades, but I've only recently started exploring traditional techniques. There's lots to learn. The almuten is, for me, a new concept that I'm trying to understand.

So, the lord of the house (the ruler of the sign on the cusp) is in charge of the affairs of the house. This I understand as it jives with my previous studies. The almuten is often the same as the lord, but can instead be an exalted planet or possibly some other planet that, according to (in my mind) dubious scoring systems that assign points for levels of dignity (but don't deduct points for debilities, hmmm). Paul states that in horary the almuten can assume management of the affairs of the house, but I sense from his statement that this is not particularly common. (If my natal were a horary chart, I'd have both the lord and the almuten not seeing their houses - for whatever that comment is worth).

So, my question is, does the almuten of a house have any real role to play in a natal chart? I'm not sure why I should care what my house almutens are. The lord, even if it's away on a useless jaunt and a poor manager of the house, still calls the shots.

Oh, one more question while I'm at it. Are almutens always calculated using point systems, or is there some other way of determining it? I'm no fan of point system methodology either.

Thanks all for your patience with me! I appreciate it!

Konrad
09-25-2013, 06:28 AM
So, my question is, does the almuten of a house have any real role to play in a natal chart? I'm not sure why I should care what my house almutens are. The lord, even if it's away on a useless jaunt and a poor manager of the house, still calls the shots.

I'm not so sure they do have much of a role, at least I haven't found any need for them yet. I agree with your comments about the lord and one in this position is telling for the affairs of the sign being examined. As I said, I am more for trying to understand the function of each dignity individually before I start adding them up and declaring victors.

JUPITERASC
09-27-2013, 01:47 PM
Why am I not surprised that the answer is complicated? But, I do see what you're saying regarding evaluating the condition of each of the planets that goes into calculating the almuten. Which system am I using? Well, I have the Zet freeware and it says it calculates the almuten using Alcabitius' method. I just pulled out my copy of On the Heavenly Spheres and calculated the almutens using the scoring system they give, and I came up with the same almutens, although Avelar and Ribeiro don't identify which scoring system they use except to say that it's "the most current..." and they do describe some other systems. The system they present gives a planet in rulership 5 pts., exaltation - 4, triplicity - 3, term - 2, and face - 1. Is this Alcabitius'?

So, here's what I'm figuring based upon your response and the system from Avelar & Ribeiro (and possibly the same as in Zet). For the Aries and Libra degrees I mentioned in my first post, both Saturn and the Sun rack up points for exaltation and triplicity (7 pts.) with the runners up being the rulership planets for 5 points each. In addition, I note in my chart that Saturn is very strongly placed on the ascendant, giving it a boost over a fairly modest Venus, and Mars is poorly placed (cadent and in detriment) thus I presume giving the Sun an additional edge even though it has no particularly spectacular dignities. Is this a reasonable line of thought?
Calculation of the Almuten Figuris of the chart :smile:
I was asked in private message to explain the method of calculating the Almutem Figuris of the chart, so I thought that since this is new forum (traditional astrology) it would be better to open a thread here and explain the method publicly where we can all discuss it.

Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine where one planet according to certain calculations applied, receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart.
Robert Zoler had applied the therm AlmuteM instead of AlmuteN in order to differentiate the Lord of the Chart from the Lord of certain house or place in the natal chart such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).

The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places. Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.

The method which we'll use here I call Ezra/Zoller method.
Arabian Astrologer Ibn Ezra (1089 1164) was the first (as far as we at this moment are aware) to explicitely wrote about calculating the Almutem Figuris.

In his writings Zoller trace the beginnings of this Almutem Figuris and he found it in the writings of Iambichus (c. 245c. 325) who was Syrian neo-platonic philosopher who wrote also about Astrology in his writings.
Iambicus in his work "Theurgy or on the mysteries of Egypt" speaks about the thing how one can change his fate. He speaks that he can do that through Theurgy and through personal relationship with the Lord of the Geniture of which he (Iambichus) only says that can be known through Astrology, but he didn't explained the method.
Zoller, tracing back the Ibn Ezra's ancestry, through the Sabaeans and his teachers (Mashallah and other) all the way to the first centuries where this doctrine was thought. Because of that line Zoller thinks that the Lord of the Geniture of which Iambichus speaks in his writings is in fact the Almutem Figuris of the Ibn Ezra.

Iambichus speaks (through the name of Porphyry) about the Peculiar Daimon, that is some kind of an Guardian Angel and it is conected to the personal soul but its not the same
Here's what Iambichus says in his Theurgy:
This [daimon] therefore is present as an exemplar before the souls descend into the realm of generated existence. As soon as the soul chooses him for leader the [daimon] immediately comes into charge of completing of its vital endowments and when it descends into the body it unites with the body and becomes the guardian of it common living principle. He likewise directs the the private life of the soul and
whatever the conclusions we may arrive at by inference and reasoning he himself imparts to us the principles."

Zoller about the Almutem Figuris says that it is equally as powerful as all the other planets taken together."

Benjamin Dykes (great student of Zoller) says about Almutem Figuris:
"Almutem Figuris, a powerful planet in the natal figure whose spirit or angel acts as the native's special link to the Divine. The Almutem Figuris is a spiritual astrological delineation, similar to but not the same as Lilly's the "Lord of the Geniture." But like Lilly (and Plato), the Almutem Figuris was taken to affect the native's thoughts, beliefs and character. Spiritual enlightenment can demand that we open our eyes to this particular planet and use it to access the Divine. Significantly, this is a function that many modern astrologers now attribute to the sun sign." (In his article on Happiness).

The method of calculation

1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers), in the Degree of the:
- Sun
- Moon
- Ascendant
- Part of Fortune
- Syzygy (the prenatal lunation, the one that came last, i.e. after which the birth follows - New or Full Moon).

2. Add 7 points for the Day ruler and 6 points to the Hour ruler.

3. Add accidental dignities scores.

For the planet in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
7th house = 10
4th house = 9
11th = 8
5th = 7
2nd = 6
9th = 5
8th = 4
3rd = 3
12th = 2
6th = 1

The planet which has most points in the aforesaid places is the Almutem Figuris of the chart!

Don't forget to apply the 5 degrees ruler for the planet near the cusp of the houses. For example, if Saturn is at 15 Scorpio in 4th, but the 5th house cusp is at 19 Scorpio, you will calculate that Saturn already in the 5th, and you will give him 7 points instead of 9 as he would took if he was in 4th house. This can make big difference.

The free traditional astrology software - Morinus (google it), calcualte the Almutem Figuris. You can find this option by typing F3. But I should warn you that in that calculation is included some adding of points according to the planets phases. Zoller did not mention any kind of phases calculation so at this moment I'm not aware why the author of the software did included that.

But the best way and more enjoyable is to calculate it with your own hand. You will be familiar with the chart more deeply if you do this calculations with your own hand as the older astrologers did.
And if you must use the Morinus software than subtract the phases scores and you will get the Almutem Figuris right. All else is the same calculation as the Ezra/Zoller method.

Zoller gives short discriptions for every planet being Almutem Figuris:

Sun:
"If the Almuten figuris is the Sun, the native will want to lead, express his creative power and be recognized."

Moon:
"If the Moon, s/he will want to care for, be cared for, eat and make love, dream"

Mercury:
"If it is Mercury, s/he will be diligent in the sciences, business and communications"

Venus:
"Id it is Venus s/he will be a lover of beauty, of music, of men and women etc."

Mars:
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate"

Jupiter:
"If it is Jupiter, s/he will philosophize and teach"

Saturn:
"If it is Saturn he will retire from society, investigate hidden things and suffer adversity.""

Paul_
09-27-2013, 02:18 PM
The almuten is often the same as the lord, but can instead be an exalted planet or possibly some other planet that, according to (in my mind) dubious scoring systems that assign points for levels of dignity (but don't deduct points for debilities, hmmm). Paul states that in horary the almuten can assume management of the affairs of the house, but I sense from his statement that this is not particularly common. (If my natal were a horary chart, I'd have both the lord and the almuten not seeing their houses - for whatever that comment is worth).

I'm not a big fan of scoring tables. Basically if it's in fall or detriment, there's no amount of other accumulating 'scores' that would make it stronger than a domicile lord, so we can ignore the idea of subtractions. Just use some common sense, domicile is strongest of all, then exaltation, then triplicity, then the term and face. I'd prefer Saturn as almuten of, say, Libra by day over Venus and more so in the first 6 degrees.

Really in horary what we want is a planet which best signifies the affairs of a given house, the most obvious is the domicile ruler, but any planet located in the house could signify something about that house, as can the exalted lord and triplicity lord etc. and really the almuten is just the one which has lots of dignity over that house and so can rightly lay some claim to signifying that house. If push came to shove, I'd much rather an application to a fairly okay dignified planet right on the house cusp than I would the almuten tucked away in a cadent house and with no dignity of its own. Basically don't get too hung up on it, it's just something to consider. Really the idea to take away is that when we want a planet to signify something about the symbolism or affairs of a given house the domicile ruler is the most obvious, but not the only one.

If we look to Dorotheus for example, he favours the triplicity lords for most matters. If we want to know about the affairs of a house he'll opt for the triplicity ruler rather than the domicile one. Bear in mind this is all for natal astrology of course. Similarly other authors also prefer the triplicity rulers in certain instances, such as with, in particular, considerations of the length of life etc.