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D-Rok
08-26-2013, 03:27 PM
I'd like to discuss the topic of diurnal and nocturnal births. As you all know, having the Sun above the horizon means you are diurnal, and having him below the horizon means you are nocturnal.

But what if someone (like myself) is born ON sunset? Not many people are, and this idea seems to be pushed aside as a negligible topic. I am certain there are many others out there born at either sunrise or sunset as well.

The two charts I've provided are mine. I use Placidus and my recorded time of birth is 8:08pm. However, I may have been actually birthed a few minutes before that (I feel the leaving a few minutes open will correct for any inaccuracies that the doctors may have had since they were, you know, delivering). Where I was born, the Sun is recorded to set at 8:07pm. The second chart is my birth time corrected into Local Apparent Time; the Sun time (as can be tracked by a sundial) was about 5 and a half minutes slower, which would make the correct time around 8:01 or 8:02. There was still plenty of sunlight in the sky. I'm really cutting corners here, but being born ON the AC/DC line doesn't appear too common and it's all too easy to get wrapped up in which sect to follow.

I ask this, because I am unsure of which to consider myself as for the sects. I don't want to follow diurnal and then get my sect planets messed up, and vice versa for nocturnal. Additionally, I don't really know how having triplicities for Venus and the Sun during the day as a diurnal, compared to not being given them at night, would play out. There is not much in term of explaining what happens when something is in triplicity, and usually from the stuff I've found it is very vague and just gives a general idea.

I would love to see a discussion bloom on this topic, as most people are either born during the day or the night, and not on the horizon lines.

JUPITERASC
08-26-2013, 05:46 PM
I'd like to discuss the topic of diurnal and nocturnal births. As you all know, having the Sun above the horizon means you are diurnal, and having him below the horizon means you are nocturnal.

But what if someone (like myself) is born ON sunset? Not many people are, and this idea seems to be pushed aside as a negligible topic. I am certain there are many others out there born at either sunrise or sunset as well.

The two charts I've provided are mine. I use Placidus and my recorded time of birth is 8:08pm. However, I may have been actually birthed a few minutes before that (I feel the leaving a few minutes open will correct for any inaccuracies that the doctors may have had since they were, you know, delivering). Where I was born, the Sun is recorded to set at 8:07pm. The second chart is my birth time corrected into Local Apparent Time; the Sun time (as can be tracked by a sundial) was about 5 and a half minutes slower, which would make the correct time around 8:01 or 8:02. There was still plenty of sunlight in the sky. I'm really cutting corners here, but being born ON the AC/DC line doesn't appear too common and it's all too easy to get wrapped up in which sect to follow.

I ask this, because I am unsure of which to consider myself as for the sects. I don't want to follow diurnal and then get my sect planets messed up, and vice versa for nocturnal. Additionally, I don't really know how having triplicities for Venus and the Sun during the day as a diurnal, compared to not being given them at night, would play out. There is not much in term of explaining what happens when something is in triplicity, and usually from the stuff I've found it is very vague and just gives a general idea.

I would love to see a discussion bloom on this topic, as most people are either born during the day or the night, and not on the horizon lines.
Twilight is not day because at twilight the sun is below the horizon, therefore it is night - early night - night nevertheless

here's a random online definition :smile:
twi·light

Noun


The soft glowing light from the sky when the sun is below the horizon, caused by the reflection of the sun's rays from the atmosphere.
The period of the evening during which this takes place, between daylight and darkness.



Synonyms
dusk - gloaming - nightfall

dr. farr
08-27-2013, 03:52 AM
Thabit ibn Qurra ("Ghayat el kawkeb", 10th century) considered Mercury to be the planet "ruling" the twilight (as Sun the day and the Moon the night) and considered Mercury "sect leader" for twilight births (this concept disappeared from later Islamic era and Medieval astrology)

D-Rok
08-28-2013, 04:28 AM
Very interesting, Dr. Farr. How come we don't hear about Mercury ruling twilight anymore? That is a very new concept to me. The Mercurial Sect is Mercury/Jupiter/Saturn, correct? I vaguely recall hearing them in that order, but chances are good that isn't quite correct. If so, what does that mean for 'twilight births' such as myself? Leaning more toward day or night, OR like you said having its own sect ruler (which is pretty cool to think about)?

tsmall
08-28-2013, 04:44 AM
Very interesting, Dr. Farr. How come we don't hear about Mercury ruling twilight anymore? That is a very new concept to me. The Mercurial Sect is Mercury/Jupiter/Saturn, correct? I vaguely recall hearing them in that order, but chances are good that isn't quite correct. If so, what does that mean for 'twilight births' such as myself? Leaning more toward day or night, OR like you said having its own sect ruler (which is pretty cool to think about)?

In a nutshell, no. There is no "Mecurial" sect, rather there is diurnal and nocturnal and then there is Mercury. Who has the ability to fit into both.

It's a very interesting question, because we are looking at the horizon and determining where it falls based on the house system used. As you've shown with the two charts, Placidus houses give a different ASC degree (and so a different descendent degreee) based on the time of birth...and the ASC moves about what?? a degree every four minutes.

Alcabitius houses gets the Sun below the horizon based on the given and not corrected birth time as well.

My suggestion would be to see if you can find the exact time the Sun set in your location (NASA? The whether service or Farmers' Almanac for that day?) because what you are looking for isn't the sect ruler, but rather the sect light. There is a difference.

D-Rok
08-28-2013, 06:10 PM
tsmall--

Thanks for your input. I actually punched my birthday in Alcabitius; it is above the horizon when corrected for LAT.

I have looked extensively on multiple websites (farmer's almanac, USNO sunrise/sunset times, other sunrise/sunset calculations) and they are almost conclusive on it being 8:07-8:08pm for the sunset time for the day and location of where I was born (without correcting for the LAT on my birthday).

I'm curious -- I am just starting to look into sect stuff. What's the difference between sect light and sect ruler?

JUPITERASC
08-28-2013, 06:15 PM
My suggestion would be to see if you can find the exact time the Sun set in your location...
IF you are resident at the same location of your birth, then on your current/next birthday observe your local skies and note the visual local location for the Sun's disk for the recorded time that you were born. Obviously, wear protective goggles AND avoid looking directly at the Sun at any time :smile:

JUPITERASC
08-28-2013, 06:24 PM
In a nutshell, no.

There is no "Mecurial" sect, rather there is diurnal and nocturnal

and then there is Mercury.

Who has the ability to fit into both
Mercury as a morning star is of the diurnal sect,
whether or not that sect is in favor.

Mercury as a morning star is the Sun’s co-sectarian,
along with Saturn and Jupiter.


Mercury as an evening star is of the nocturnal sect,
whether or not that sect is in favor.

Mercury as an evening star is the Moon’s co-sectarian,
along with Venus and Mars.


i.e.


If the chart is a day chart,
then the diurnal sect is in favor
and the Sun is the sect leader
and Jupiter and Saturn are the planets of the sect in favor:
and if Mercury is a morning star,
then Mercury too is of the sect in favor.

If the chart is a night chart,
then the nocturnal sect is in favor
and the Moon is the sect leader
and Venus and Mars are of the sect in favor:
and if Mercury is an evening star,
then Mercury too is of the sect in favor

Mercury as a morning star makes it a diurnal planet,
so Mercury is ‘out of sect’ in a night chart

Mercury as an evening star makes it a nocturnal planet,
so Mercury is ‘out of sect’ in a day chart.:smile:

tsmall
08-31-2013, 02:31 PM
tsmall--


I'm curious -- I am just starting to look into sect stuff. What's the difference between sect light and sect ruler?

Sect light is the luminary (Sun or Moon) that rules the nativity. Sun if it is a day chart, Moon if it is night.

Sect Ruler is the planet of the sect of the chart that is the most competent to carry out the job.

Sect itself is a general term, similiar I guess to "agreement." There are multiple levels of "agreement", or sect, in a chart. Dykes refers to it as Domain. Diurnal planets agree with, or are "at home" in the the solar half of the chart, nocturnal in the night (opposite from the Sun.)

Then there is masculine/feminine. Masculine planets prefer masculine signs, degrees, and quadrants, feminine the opposite.