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fullmoonlibra
07-29-2013, 12:12 AM
How can an astrological element like Lilith function at its best, when it is actually a 'dark' element?
Lilith is exalted in Gemini, and dignified in Capricorn, similar with the tenth house.

I have Lilith in Gemini in 10th house,
sextile Mercury
trine Moon
opposite Saturn
(Mystic Rectangle configuration)

dr. farr
07-29-2013, 03:20 AM
I do not believe that Lilith (or the South Node) can ever function as constructive, benefic factors, under any circumstances-because I believe that these factors represent CHAOS in the Universe, and CHAOS can never benefit (it is unbalanced, qlippothic force) Now, this attitude of mine regarding Lilith and the SN, is not shared by the vast majority of experts in this field-most believe that under certain circumstances Lilith or the SN can be beneficial. But from experience I must completely disagree with this more liberal outlook. I do believe that the disruptive influences of Lilith or the SN can be MITIGATED, even perhaps neutralized, under certain circumstances, but never can they be turned into benefic influences, unless one can turn CHAOS into ORDER (in which case CHAOS-Lilith and the SN-would cease to be)...
For me, the value (great value) of Lilith and the SN, is to show where the fly in the ointment is, where the Acilles Heel is, where the "one thing that could go wrong" is, where the "karmic debt" is, where the (usually hidden) liability is, because knowing this we can do something about it, we can begin to take control of our own tendencies and "destiny", if we obtain the knowledge and develop the wisdom to do so...

fullmoonlibra
07-29-2013, 09:53 PM
Actually I agree with what U say, I also think that Lilith is not a benefic even when exalted or dignified, but since I'm reading the book Lilith Insight, I just started questioning how it could function compared with the other positions of Lilith.

In my case, the public sees me as a 'bad girl' or something like that?
Which is quite strange, cause I have dominant Venus Taurus in tenth and dominant Jupiter Pisces sextile MC. Representing my 'good girl' image. (Ok, I also have Pluto Scorpio opposite MC..)
But still, Lilith is confusing me...

dr. farr
07-30-2013, 03:06 AM
No, I don't think Lilith (or the SN for that matter) indicates how others see us, rather each indicates our own interior, personal challenges, the natures we need to overcome within ourselves.

The Ram
07-30-2013, 03:35 AM
I don't see the SN as a malefic. It represents gifts and knowledge we bring into this life, the downside to it imo is that we tend to rely and fall back on these abilities instead of moving forward as well to the NN.

Ideally a person would use the SN as a foundation and use that as a starting point to gain the knowledge of the NN as well. Thus making one a more complete person.

Speaking of the Nodes, my Lilith squares them.:surprised:

Frisiangal
08-01-2013, 09:42 PM
How can an astrological element like Lilith function at its best, when it is actually a 'dark' element?
Lilith is exalted in Gemini, and dignified in Capricorn, similar with the tenth house.



How can a calculated astrological point that is not physical in concept be given dignity or debilitation through sign?
If such were possible how could it be dignified in Capricorn when it's non physical inner imagery is totally opposite of Capricorn's structured reality?

dr. farr
08-02-2013, 04:31 AM
Even in Traditionalist Western and also in Vedic astrology, there is no consensus regarding the Nodes being dignified or debilitated in specific signs (indeed Parasara-the "father of Vedic astrology"- stated that the Nodes had no sign of dignity nor of detriment)-other than Parasara, various authorities have claimed (historically) one sign or the other as dignifying a Node and some other sign or another as detrimental for that Node. Same (in Vedic astrology) with their (ancient) "shadow planets" Gulika and Mandi (which may be very much like our Lilith)-so I myself do not attempt to allocate sign dignity nor detriment, to the Nodes (nor to Lilith)...

The Ram
08-02-2013, 09:18 PM
Lilith is dark and so is Capricorn, so they're alike there. But imo Lilith being a very mystical point as well would be moreso similar to Scorpio.

dr. farr
08-03-2013, 04:16 AM
I can see a special resonant affinity between Lilith and Scorpio. Good observation!

Frisiangal
08-03-2013, 10:22 AM
Lilith is dark and so is Capricorn, so they're alike there. But imo Lilith being a very mystical point as well would be moreso similar to Scorpio.

'Dark' would depend upon one's perspective. Capricorn IS a feminine sign. Maybe any exaltation arises ffrom that?

Scorpio may be mysterious and secretive, yet mystical is more Pisces orientated.
There's a very mystical side to the astrological point Black Moon called Lilith, if this is the Lilith which is referred to ion this thread. In Pisces it can take on any guise.

Aquarius shows its objectivity through its emotionally independent side. Black Moon called Lilith can really work at its best there. Try to pin it down with conventions and norms :wink:

Place Black Moon Lilith in ANY sign and you can observe the positive and negative tendencies of them within it.

How can Lilith receive exaltation of any kind when it's in shameful disgrace as far as the Gods of Civilised Society are concerned.:biggrin::biggrin:

Faire
08-06-2013, 04:22 PM
I don't subscribe to the 'Black Moon' Lilith. I only use the 'Dark Moon' Lilith, (which is an actual physical point, as she is said to be the 'hidden moon').

I also don't subscribe to the 'South Node' as being gifts of knowledge... they're lousy habitual patterns that ruined us last time, here to be integrated and transcended in this life.

In any case, it doesn't matter if Lilith is in good aspect with any other point or planet... the result will be, at the least, an outright delay, if not denial, of whatever the aspect promises. Lilith screws everything up. Having her in aspect to anything in our Chart should give one pause.

The Ram
08-07-2013, 02:44 AM
Here's a few examples of ppl who brought their south node knowledge into life to benefit humanity:

Thomas Edison had his South node conjunct Uranus and Pluto in Aries in the 4th.

Nicola Tesla had his south node conjunct the moon and mars in Libra in the 6th.

The south to me is about gifts and over reliance. It's like the person who's a 10 in looks, yet relies on that gift exclusively and becomes shallow and poorly developed in other areas. The greatest danger of any gift is to over use it and rely on it instead of growing as a person and developing other gifts as well. If positively used (in balance with the north) it can be quite beneficial imo.


Lilith is definitely detrimental in some ways. But I don't think it's all bad, for instance I think it can be a potential indicator of occult talents. It squaring my nodes and conjunct my venus makes sense to me now that I think about it, since I know I abused my magic a bit in my past lives.

The black moon is what I've studied mostly so far, but I think all of them have a place in the chart analysis. Here's one perspective that assigns all 3 dark, black, asteroid varying meanings:

http://darkstarastrology.com/triple-moon-goddess-lilith-astrology/

I just looked up my dark moon and it's conjunct my Jupiter. Uh oh.:surprised:

The Ram
08-07-2013, 02:55 AM
'Dark' would depend upon one's perspective. Capricorn IS a feminine sign. Maybe any exaltation arises ffrom that?

Scorpio may be mysterious and secretive, yet mystical is more Pisces orientated.
There's a very mystical side to the astrological point Black Moon called Lilith, if this is the Lilith which is referred to ion this thread. In Pisces it can take on any guise.

Aquarius shows its objectivity through its emotionally independent side. Black Moon called Lilith can really work at its best there. Try to pin it down with conventions and norms :wink:

Place Black Moon Lilith in ANY sign and you can observe the positive and negative tendencies of them within it.

How can Lilith receive exaltation of any kind when it's in shameful disgrace as far as the Gods of Civilised Society are concerned.:biggrin::biggrin:

Well I say dark because Capricorn is prone to depression more than most signs. I have Jupiter and Neptune there and I've had my fair share of it. Though I just realized that my dark moon is conjunct my natal Jupiter, which could be atleast partly responsble for that.

I'd say Pisces and Scorpio are equally mystical, but Scorps is more of a dark mystical sign. Lilith to me is a dark mystical placement.

I don't know if I'd use the term exalted, but when I think of Lilith I think of Scorpio, very lustful, consorting with demons, magical, being less submissive sexually (corresponding to mars/pluto influence), etc. She wasn't the only one in mythology who had questionable qualities, Saturn for instance ate his own kids.

dr. farr
08-07-2013, 03:45 AM
Note: there is often confusion over Black Moon, Dark Moon and asteroid Lilith; in whatever I post here on AW about Lilith I am always and ONLY referring to the Lilith symbolized as a crescent moon surmounting a cross, and am referring to the astro.com free horoscope figure in the drop down "additional objects" box under "Lilith", which has the crescent moon on a cross as its printed symbol on the astro.com free horoscopes; this is the Lilith described in the literature by Sepharial, by Ivy Goldstein-Jacobsen, and in the excellent Wilson-Ludlam book "Lilith Insight: New Light on the Dark Moon". This is as differentiated from the "Black Moon Waldemath" and the asteroid Lilith, as well as distuinguished from the oscillating lunar apogee, each of which has a seperate selection on the astro.com free horoscope chart selection page.

fullmoonlibra
08-11-2013, 04:50 PM
The reason why Lilith fits in Capricorn:
Capricorn is the opposite of Cancer.. Cancer is ruled by the Moon.
The dark side of the Moon is Capricorn therefore.

The book explains this logic in the following way:
"We believe Lilith to be dignified in the sign of Capricorn and in her detriment in Cancer, because Lilith is the formidable opponent of the Moon. It is a simple matter of polarity or opposites. Through the wisdom and patience of Capricorn, our response to Lilith can be tamed in time not to take the easy way out, for life is built upon the many pebbles of choice. Lilith is freer from the shadows of error when in the 10th house, similar to the dignified Lilith in Capricorn."

The Ram
08-11-2013, 05:43 PM
By that reasoning Scorpio could fit as well, since it's the opposite of the moons exaltation.

And also to clear things up as well when I'm talking about Lilith I'm generally talking about the black moon, the true oscillating version. If I talk about the others I call Waldemath the dark moon and asteroid lilith....asteroid lilith lol.

The Ram
08-11-2013, 05:53 PM
But of all the other feminine signs I can most see a Capricorn woman wanting more control of the sex (Mars). Since it also shares the Mars influence, Pluto would be best placed in Cap among the earth signs as well due to that.

I'd say yeah, It would probably be strong in Capricorn.

mystic22
02-17-2019, 08:23 PM
Hi.


Lilith rules Gemini and is exalted in Virgo and Scorpio.
Capricorn or 10th house is ok for Lilith :kissing: