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greybeard
07-11-2013, 06:45 AM
Disposition

Words are the symbolic embodiment of an Idea. The old time astrologers were very careful in their choices of words – descriptors – used to portray the roles of planets in different functions, or of the different characteristics of signs and other astrological symbols. This is why I often use the dictionary as a primary astrological textbook.

By going outside astrology and then looking back in, we can gain new perspectives and understandings. The dictionary provides us with this opportunity because it is concerned with language rather than astrology. We might also keep in mind the fact that astrology is a language, a language that “works” through the use of analogy, which might be described as the translation of one fact into the terms of another set of facts. Astrology can be accurately defined as the translation of celestial facts into terms of human affairs. Therefore, a linguistic approach to understanding astrological significance is not only valid, but quite powerful.

If you want to understand the nature of the Fixed Signs, look up “fix” in your dictionary. If you have a preponderance of Fixed Signs in your personal horoscope, there is a list of seventeen definitions of the word in my little Funk & Wagnalls, most of which will describe you very nicely. Because I am a born diplomat I will refrain from calling you stubborn. Unalterable will do. The Fixed Signs do not welcome change that is not necessary or advantageous.

We are going to examine one word here: Disposition (and its cousins, dispose and dispositor).

The word disposition has two applications in astrology. The first of these is a strictly technical term that means that a planet, as lord of a sign, is the ruler of any planet found in that sign and of the house or houses which hold the ruled sign(s) on their cusp. The lord disposes those planets occupying his signs, and those houses he rules, toward whatever his condition may indicate. He is the dispositor, and the planets and houses under his rule are disposed to act in a certain way, or toward certain ends, dictated by the lord of the sign, again, according to his cosmic state or condition in the particular horoscope.

Morin tells us that while planets in a house, and even planets aspecting those planets or the cusp of the house, may be more directly influential in describing the affairs of that house or active in carrying them forward in actual practice, it is the dispositor who determines the final outcome.

What does this word dispose mean? What does a planetary dispositor do? Let’s see what Mssrs. Funk & Wagnall have to say. Here’s where it gets boring.

“Dispose: To put into a receptive frame of mind for. To condition toward something, especially to make susceptible. To put or set in a particular arrangement or position. To put into proper, definitive or final shape; settle. To control the course of events.

Disposition: One’s usual frame of mind; temperament. Acquired tendency or inclination. Natural organic tendency or inclination. A particular ordering, arrangement or distribution, as of troops. Management, as of business affairs. Transfer, as by gift or sale. Liberty to deal with or dispose of in any way.”

An astrological dispositor (lord, ruler) therefore – first and foremost – “controls the course of events.” First, the innate nature of the lord is imposed on the planets it disposes. For example, Mars as dispositor of other planets will impose on them a more aggressive, more energetic tendency than is their normal wont. They will be more inclined to take the initiative, and so on. Of course the condition of a dispositor in the particular horoscope must always be carefully examined. What sign is it in and what is the condition of its own lord? Once we determine the condition (cosmic state) of the planet that is lord of another planet or planets, we will see how this dispositor influences these others, what its tendencies are. The important thing is to understand that the dispositor, in accord with its conditioning, determines the course of events. It also “conditions toward something”; specifically, the dispositor inclines the planets it rules to act in a certain way and toward some goal determined by the dispositor. What that may be is described by the dispositor.

If one planet disposes another, it does so essentially. Rulership of a sign is an essential dignity. Essential means inherent, innate, inborn, inherited, immutable and not subject to change. So disposition is not dependent on life events; it is permanent, life-long. What is essential exists of necessity, is indispensable. An essential ingredient is of the very nature of a thing, making it what it is. Therefore, what is shown by the rulership of one planet over another is an indicator of what the dictionary calls “natural organic tendency or inclination.”

The more planets ruled or disposed by one planet, the more powerful and influential that one becomes in the horoscope. If Mars, for example, rules Jupiter, then it follows that because it influences, even dominates the behavior of Jupiter, Mars also indirectly influences the houses ruled by Jupiter. Where one planet rules several, this indirect influence may spread throughout the entire chart.

This brings us to a planet that, directly or indirectly, rules or disposes all the other planets – the Final Dispositor. Let’s assume Mars in Scorpio, his own sign. Sun, Mercury and Venus are all in Aries, also ruled by Mars. Saturn is in Gemini, ruled by Mercury...Uranus in Leo, ruled by Sun, Pluto and Jupiter in Libra under the dominion of Venus, and Neptune in Sagittarius under Jupiter, while Moon occupies Taurus. If we follow the chain of disposition, we find that ultimately Mars rules all the planets either directly or through a second planet. In such a case I call Mars the final dispositor. If a chart contains a final dispositor, that planet exercises exceptional power over the whole map, and influences the entire life.

Now some of my traditionalist friends will claim that what I just described above is not true final disposition. Disposition can only be effective directly, they say; the effects of disposition are not effective beyond the planet directly ruled. According to their rules, it is almost impossible for any planet to be a final dispositor. A planet such as Mars in the horoscope of Martin Luther, which I call final dispositor but the traditionalists do not allow that dignity, is said by them to be exceptionally dignified, but not final dispositor.

I answer that, whether we allow the term “final dispositor” or not, the functional role of Mars (in the horoscope of Luther) is that of predominant planet, and the tone of the life is determined by Mars’ conditioning. Mars is de facto dispositor of the chart, terminology notwithstanding. Common sense and everyday experience show us that the effects of a ruler do extend beyond what is directly ruled. In Luther’s life we see the indomitable warrior as well as the tormented soul whose life was given over to purification, both of the self and of the corrupted Church.

There is another situation commonly found in horoscopes, and that is where two planets share final disposition of a chart. Here’s an example: We’ll put Saturn and Mars in Taurus, Jupiter in Gemini, Moon in Libra, Sun, Mercury and Venus in Aquarius. We see that Venus rules Saturn, Mars and Moon directly. Mercury rules Jupiter. But Saturn rules the Aquarius planets, including Venus. So Venus rules Saturn, and Saturn rules Venus (mutual disposition) and between these two planets they dispose all the rest. This is mutual disposition of the chart.

This is a more complex sort of final disposition. Some astrologers do not allow it, considering it too weak; I hold that it is surely effective. The problem for the astrologer is that, unlike the straightforward single final dispositor, in most cases mutual disposition of a chart is inherently a sign of some sort of essential friction or conflict and is apt to be quite complex. To understand what is shown in such situations requires careful study of the two planets. But at least from the psychological perspective, it is worth the extra effort, because the friction or conflict is a governing force in the personality and character is destiny. Remember that disposition is essential in nature and is therefore descriptive of character; it portrays innate qualities.

The second application of the word disposition is useful in interpretation and comes to us via psychiatry. Disposition in this sense means a natural or acquired inclination or characteristic attitude. A person’s disposition can be determined in several different ways, that is, by several different and distinct indicators found in the astrological chart. Determination of a native’s disposition in this sense requires the synthesis of the various factors, careful evaluation of their strength and balance in the chart. Disposition in this sense is an element of interpretation – not a technical consideration –, and is fundamental in any attempt at character analysis.

Disposition in this sense is often indicated in a general way by the pattern of planetary distribution around the Earth. For example, all of the planets might be contained within a trine aspect, with the remaining two-thirds of the sky empty – what is known as a Bundle pattern. A person with this configuration in their chart is naturally (essentially) disposed or inclined to enclose themselves in a world of their own. The pattern is a reliable indicator of a basic introversion, or in-turning of personal focus, a highly subjective and personal view of life. The opposite condition, where the planets are more or less evenly scattered throughout the sky surrounding the Earth shows a natural disposition to scatter the energies, to lack focus or concentration, and an inclination to ride off in all directions at once. It shows a person with wide and varied interests and relationships, and is generally objective in outlook.

One element of disposition is found in oppositions. Where a chart has but one opposition aspect, or where more than one of them fall in one Quality with the other two Qualities vacant, that Quality will dominate a person’s perception and response to the circumstances met in life. Where Cardinal signs are so emphasized, the native will be inclined to meet each circumstance by acting to change the circumstance or exploit it for his own benefit. They are disposed to action. With the Common signs, the native is primarily concerned with his place within the social group. He is people-oriented, and will quickly adapt himself to fit into the circumstances encountered. Generally, this orientation to life involves some sort of service to others as a means of securing a personal place in the social whole of the moment. They are disposed to adaptation. The Fixed signs are concerned neither with acting upon passing circumstances nor adapting the self to them. They are instead inclined to direct their focus to processing passing circumstance in accord with their own closely-held internal values, ideals and principles. They are basically unconcerned with passing circumstance per se, but instead tend to allow circumstance to flow around and by them – themselves remaining “unchanged” – much like a boulder in a stream allows the water to flow past it. They are disposed toward fixing what are fundamentally internal affairs, and they tend to judge life and its affairs according to strongly held personal values.

Preponderance of Quality has the same effect vis a vis the native’s natural inclination, or disposition. The Qualities predispose us to meet life in typical ways. If there is a preponderance of Quality (I use six planets in one Quality to show preponderance, although five is probably strong enough to allow it) then that Quality will predominate in the personality. The native will be disposed to meet life predominantly in the manner typical of the preponderant Quality.

All other types of preponderance (Element, retrogradation, hemispheric emphasis, type of aspect, house triads or crosses, etc.) will display the same sort of effect. The native will be predisposed to act according to the different “meanings” of the preponderances present in the chart. These factors show us the native’s natural or acquired inclinations or dominant tendencies in response to life.

These chart factors – the whole-chart pattern, an opposition aspect in a single Quality, or preponderance in its many forms – tend to dominate the character, to indicate predominant behavioral inclinations that condition how the native meets life. Because they are fundamental character traits – the inborn or acquired disposition of the person –, they tend to dictate how any specific position or aspect will operate. Suppose the chart has a prominent conjunction of Mars to Saturn. There are several ways this conjunction may tend to manifest. Which way is most likely in this particular chart (life)? By examining the predominant disposition of the native, we will have at hand some very good indicators of the most likely form of expression of that difficult conjunction, and of all the other more specific or particular positions or aspects.

dr. farr
07-11-2013, 06:49 AM
Interesting elaboration! Thanks!

Blacknight
07-11-2013, 02:53 PM
Hi Greybeard! I notice you like to make a lot of informative threads. I appreciate that!

As I am an astrology noob, I've been reading about lord rulership lately so this is useful information.

So... using my own chart for reference, venus rules libra (my ascendant) and taurus (sun). Venus is in gemini; (lord of gemini is mercury). My moon & jupiter are both in leo which is ruled by the sun.... so by disposition those are ruled by venus.

Would I be correct in asserting that Venus is my final dispositor?

!4C
07-11-2013, 04:35 PM
What is the modern astrology consensus on uranus/neptune/pluto and the conundrum between modern rulerships and ancient rulerships?

Moog
07-11-2013, 05:15 PM
What is the modern astrology consensus on uranus/neptune/pluto and the conundrum between modern rulerships and ancient rulerships?

I don't think there is such a thing.

Blacknight
07-11-2013, 07:31 PM
No Blacknight...

Mars is ruled by Moon, Moon and Jupiter by Sun in his exaltation. Venus is ruled by Mercury, and Mercury is in Aries. A planet can't be final dispositor unless in his own sign. The upper group of planets (above the horizon) has a mixed disposition.

In the group below the horizon Saturn is lord of Uranus/Neptune. We can allow Pluto to be independent (if we use modern rulerships), or subject to Mars. Saturn is direct in motion.

Oh, unless a planet is in its own sign... gotcha. So then Saturn would be my final dispositor since aquarius is ruled by it and it's the only planet I have in its own sign.

In that case, what happens in a chart when none of the planets are in their own signs? Does the chart simply not have a final dispositor?

Secondly, if Saturn is my final dispositor how does that affect Venus and its chart rulership, especially since the planets trine each other?

greybeard
07-11-2013, 07:39 PM
No Blacknight...

Your chart is divided into two distinct groups, the planets above the hoizon essentially separated from those below.

Mars is ruled by Moon. Moon and Jupiter are ruled by Sun in Taurus, ruled by Venus, ruled by Mercury, who is in his turn ruled by Mars....and we have a merry-go-round. It is a mixed disposition...that is, no one planetary energy wholly dominates any other. This allows you more versatility in reponse to life's challenges.

greybeard
07-11-2013, 07:53 PM
Boy, you got hold of that post before I deleted it. Disregard that post. I had it in my head that Sun was in Aries, and he is not. I also overlooked other important things. Wasn't focused. That changes the whole thing. Disregard.

Saturn holds no rulership over any planet above the horizon. He cannot be final dispositor. Many charts have no final dispositor. Just because a planet is in his own sign does not make him final dispositor. He must ultimately rule, directly or indirectly, every planet in the chart in order to merit that dignity.

Rulership is Very Important in astrology. Study it until you have comfortable mastery. Get a bunch of charts and work out the chains of disposition in each one until you are sure you can confidently find a final dispositor if there is one.

Blacknight
07-11-2013, 08:00 PM
What is the modern astrology consensus on uranus/neptune/pluto and the conundrum between modern rulerships and ancient rulerships?
I don't think there is such a thing.

I was wondering the same thing. Following modern planetary rulership, I wouldn't have any signs in their own house...

copy/pasted from wikipedia:

(Domicile) (ancient) (modern)
Aries Mars
Taurus Venus Terra
Gemini Mercury
Cancer Moon
Leo Sun
Virgo Mercury Ceres
Libra Venus
Scorpio Mars Pluto
Sagittarius Jupiter
Capricorn Saturn
Aquarius Saturn Uranus
Pisces Jupiter Neptune

Blacknight
07-11-2013, 08:18 PM
No Blacknight...

Your chart is divided into two distinct groups, the planets above the hoizon essentially separated from those below.

Mars is ruled by Moon. Moon and Jupiter are ruled by Sun in Taurus, ruled by Venus, ruled by Mercury, who is in his turn ruled by Mars....and we have a merry-go-round. It is a mixed disposition...that is, no one planetary energy wholly dominates any other. This allows you more versatility in reponse to life's challenges.

Boy, you got hold of that post before I deleted it. Disregard that post. I had it in my head that Sun was in Aries, and he is not. I also overlooked other important things. Wasn't focused. That changes the whole thing. Disregard.

Saturn holds no rulership over any planet above the horizon. He cannot be final dispositor. Many charts have no final dispositor. Just because a planet is in his own sign does not make him final dispositor. He must ultimately rule, directly or indirectly, every planet in the chart in order to merit that dignity.

Rulership is Very Important in astrology. Study it until you have comfortable mastery. Get a bunch of charts and work out the chains of disposition in each one until you are sure you can confidently find a final dispositor if there is one.

Oh sorry about that... nevermind about the saturn thing then. So since I have no final dispositor, the emphasis is placed on the chart ruler, which is Venus in my case. Would that mean all planets act in a way that expresses some of venus' qualities rather than being dominated when a final dispostor exists?

The other thing... All of my houses are angular except for 2 & 9. So I have 1 succeedent house (2nd) and 1 cadent house (9th). Except in this case all of my planets fall into signs that are either fixed or cardinal except for my Venus in Gemini. This makes my Gemini Venus in the 9th very peculiar.

I've read that when a certain energy is hardly present in a chart except through 1 sign as is my case, that it can act as a funnel through which all of the other energy must travel.

What kind of significance does that cadent house with mutable energy hold toward the chart, especially since the planet is venus, ruler of the chart?

greybeard
07-11-2013, 10:00 PM
I consider Venus to be Ruler of the Horoscope, not ruler of the chart. Horoskopos refers to the Ascendant, not the chart as a whole...and that is what Venus rules.

Mercury takes on importance as the focal point of the dominating Cardinal T-square, and Mars is strongly angular.

dr. farr
07-12-2013, 03:51 AM
I was wondering the same thing. Following modern planetary rulership, I wouldn't have any signs in their own house...

copy/pasted from wikipedia:

(Domicile) (ancient) (modern)
Aries Mars
Taurus Venus Terra
Gemini Mercury
Cancer Moon
Leo Sun
Virgo Mercury Ceres
Libra Venus
Scorpio Mars Pluto
Sagittarius Jupiter
Capricorn Saturn
Aquarius Saturn Uranus
Pisces Jupiter Neptune


Right, this is the accepted domicile allocation list followed in Modern astrology.

I fully accept the indications and value of the outer planets both for delineative and predictive purposes; however, I do not consider them as "rulers" of any signs: I DO regard them as "co-domiciles" (or if you will, CO-"rulers", more like co-DISPOSITORS) of the signs as given in Modern astrology (although I am a bit in question regarding Uranus being co-domicile/ co-dispositor for Aquarius, although I still use this allocation in practical delineation and prediction)

I also believe that there are only 7 fundamental "Cosmic Principles" (which we call planets), ie Sun, Mercury, Venus, Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. I believe that all other astrological factors (such as the outer planets, Lilith, the Witte points, asteroids even) are MIXTURES of the qualities (and thus the influences of) these 7 fundamental Cosmic Principles; following the lead of early Modernist pioneer Charles Carter, in my opinion the 3 outer planets represent mixtures of Cosmic Principles, as follows:

Uranus = mixture of Sun+Mars+Mercury qualities

Neptune = mixture of Jupiter+Venus+Moon qualities

Pluto = mixture of Sun+Mars+Saturn qualities

Not trying to convince anyone about these ideas:sideways:, just passing on some insights which have proven valuable to me.:biggrin:

!4C
07-12-2013, 06:14 PM
What is the modern astrology consensus on uranus/neptune/pluto and the conundrum between modern rulerships and ancient rulerships?I don't think there is such a thing.:lol: I know it's a loaded question but it was designed for newbie awareness. Some software programs will generate dispositor diagrams. It's a great idea, except they seem to default to modern rulership without any indication. They should be more clearly labeled with the option to switch rulership criteria.

I fully accept the indications and value of the outer planets both for delineative and predictive purposes; however, I do not consider them as "rulers" of any signs: I DO regard them as "co-domiciles" (or if you will, CO-"rulers", more like co-DISPOSITORS)
...
Not trying to convince anyone about these ideas:sideways:, just passing on some insights which have proven valuable to me.:biggrin:Thanks for sharing your experienced opinion. To be clear, do you use modern rulership if traditional rulership fail to produce a final dispositor, or do you consider modern rulership disqualified from this particular process?

greybeard
07-12-2013, 07:25 PM
I use traditional rulers, unless the modern ruler is crying out... I stick with the conventional dispositions unless there is good reason to go to the moderns.

Einstein's chart with its solitary Uranus is an example of "crying out." It stands alone against all the other planets, so I give him Aquarius. What did Einstein do? He Overthrew the Existing Order.

It is not necessary for a chart to have a final dispositor. Rather than forcing the chart to fit a mold or preconception, we should let the chart speak to us and guide us in forming our judgments.

The traditional rulerships have served us exceedingly well for a very long time. If it works, don't fix it.

dr. farr
07-13-2013, 04:23 AM
:lol:
To be clear, do you use modern rulership if traditional rulership fail to produce a final dispositor, or do you consider modern rulership disqualified from this particular process?

In determining a grand or final dispositor (following Morin Villefranche in this particular technique) I only use the traditional planetary sign "rulers" (the "Cosmic 7")

Regarding the 3 outers, I consider them only as "co-dispositors", superceded (in the "rulership" department) by the 7 traditional planets.

However, outside of the "control" or "dispositing" perspective, and I think, perhaps even more significantly revealing, I apply a technique from Jaimini astrology which seeks to identify the most importantly symbolic planet in a given chart, the planet which most exactly typifies the fundamental essence of the chart: they call this planet the atmakaraka ("highest significator"), and for me this planet means more than even a grand dispositor does. All 10 planets (and even Lilith if you accept it) are candidates for being a chart's atmakaraka: how do you find the atmakaraka? Very simple: the planet with the highest number of degrees in whatever sign its in, in the entire chart, is the atmakaraka: if 2 planets have the same highest number of degrees, then the planet with the highest number of minutes between them, is atmakaraka.
...but I am going off thread topic here (this thread being about dispositorship) so I'll end my post.

greybeard
07-13-2013, 05:18 AM
I don't see where your post is "off-topic." After all, we are talking about domination of one or more planets by some other planet, although the thread is meant to consider the nature of rulership with or without final dispostion.

And by the way...Atma signifies "soul", karaka "the significator or lord of," (the causative or creative power) so the atmakaraka tells us of the soul or essence of the native. If the atmakaraka is well-conditioned, it liberates the native (is benefic), while if poorly-conditioned, bondage and sorrow result. Atmakaraka dominates other karakas (dispositors) in much the same way as a final dispositor, but in Jaimini system, moreso.

Question Dr. Farr: Do you allow the modern planets as atmakaraka?

chris10
07-13-2013, 06:00 AM
Thank you to all posters for this great thread

dr. farr
07-13-2013, 07:21 AM
Question Dr. Farr: Do you allow the modern planets as atmakaraka?

Yes, absolutely and-I believe-with highly suggestive results (for example, Neptune is atmakaraka in Bruce Lee's birth chart, and the essence of his martial arts style was his emphasis on "formlessness"-pretty close to one of the keynotes connected with Neptune) I even will include Lilith in the candidate list for atmakaraka (Lilith, posited in the first house, in Leo, conjunct Regulus, is the atmakaraka in Marilyn Monroe's birth chart-given her life, an amazingly close symbolization of Lilith, Lilith amplified to the max by Regulus! Lilith was also atmakaraka in the start-of-WW2 disaster chart, and reigned as atmakaraka for the Hiroshima atomic bomb/inception of the era of nuclear weapons chart as well; returning to MM's charts, Uranus is atmakaraka in her solar return chart for June 1st, 1962, the transiting Uranus near conjunct in that SR chart with the place of her natal Lilith; in MM's time of death chart, 10:30 PM August 5th, 1962, Uranus is again atmakaraka, the transiting Uranus now being partile conjunct the place of the natal Lilith and-closely conjunct Regulus)

greybeard
07-13-2013, 11:37 AM
Thank you dr. farr.

SVP
11-15-2013, 05:06 AM
This is a very insightful thread that helped me clear away some notions of mine, but a few questions about disposition are still gnawing at me.

One thing I'm curious about is house rulership and how it adds to disposition; specifically how does a direct dispositor of a planet add to the depth of said planet based off of the house(s) the dispositor rules? For example, I have Sun in Virgo so the dispositor of my sun is Mercury. Mercury is the ruler of both my 8th and 11th houses. Could this potentially indicate that the flavor of these houses, which are in turn defined by my mercury position, are naturally ingrained in the way that I express myself within the world?

From an unintegrated perspective this seemed off base considering the idea that houses merely indicate where the energy of a planet is placed instead of how it's expressed. But, after thinking about it a great deal, I feel like I've convinced myself that it's possible. Since Mercury rules both the 8th and 11th house I view those corresponding issues through a mercurial lens, and since my sun is ruled by Mercury I in turn identify with everything that Mercury touches and expresses itself through (or no?). Well...after saying that I suppose I could be off base with my prior assumption. My Mercury is also in tight aspect with both Pluto and Uranus, so that could more readily explain why I identify with those energies (plus a lot of different factors now that I think about it).

And about the atmakaraka, would mine be Neptune since it's the planet with the greatest degrees?

dr. farr
11-15-2013, 05:37 AM
For example, I have Sun in Virgo so the dispositor of my sun is Mercury. Mercury is the ruler of both my 8th and 11th houses. Could this potentially indicate that the flavor of these houses, which are in turn defined by my mercury position, are naturally ingrained in the way that I express myself within the world? ?

In my opinion, yes it could be so.

dr. farr
11-15-2013, 05:39 AM
And about the atmakaraka, would mine be Neptune since it's the planet with the greatest degrees?


Yes it is the atmakaraka.

SVP
11-18-2013, 05:46 AM
Yes it is the atmakaraka.

Thank you for the reply Dr. Farr :-)

poyi
11-18-2013, 06:40 AM
SVP this video would be useful to your question. Thank you for mentioning this term as I forgot to research this ages ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk1KwCaHceI

I have 3rd house Sun in Libra in vedic it conjoined Saturn in Libra (Venus in Virgo 2nd house) Sun as the usual Atmakaraka but also the Chara Atmakaraka as the ruler of my Vedic ascendant Leo. :unsure: Should learn to let go of Ego and be humble it said? and other interesting interpretations.

http://kaartik.net/main/articles/what-is-aatmakaraka/

Good reads of this term.

http://www.komilla.com/pages/library/atmakaraka.cfm
http://hazratishq.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/atma-karaka-knowing-souls-desire.html

JUPITERASC
11-18-2013, 01:24 PM
This is a very insightful thread that helped me clear away some notions of mine, but a few questions about disposition are still gnawing at me.

One thing I'm curious about is house rulership and how it adds to disposition; specifically how does a direct dispositor of a planet add to the depth of said planet based off of the house(s) the dispositor rules? For example, I have Sun in Virgo so the dispositor of my sun is Mercury. Mercury is the ruler of both my 8th and 11th houses. Could this potentially indicate that the flavor of these houses, which are in turn defined by my mercury position, are naturally ingrained in the way that I express myself within the world?

From an unintegrated perspective this seemed off base considering the idea that houses merely indicate where the energy of a planet is placed instead of how it's expressed. But, after thinking about it a great deal, I feel like I've convinced myself that it's possible. Since Mercury rules both the 8th and 11th house I view those corresponding issues through a mercurial lens, and since my sun is ruled by Mercury I in turn identify with everything that Mercury touches and expresses itself through (or no?). Well...after saying that I suppose I could be off base with my prior assumption. My Mercury is also in tight aspect with both Pluto and Uranus, so that could more readily explain why I identify with those energies (plus a lot of different factors now that I think about it).

And about the atmakaraka, would mine be Neptune since it's the planet with the greatest degrees?
Position is stronger than rulership :smile:

Example:
IF Aries is on 5th house cusp.
IF Jupiter is in Aries.
THEN Juptier has much more importance for the issues of the house than Aries ruler Mars.
The type of Delineation I'm giving here is a mix of medieval techniques with those of the Hellenistic authors.
Robert Zoller played great role in my traditional astrology education and this is obvious for those who are familiar with his work.
I need to mention that even though Zoller was initially very fond on Arabia authors, his basic delineation techniques are taken from the early reneissance French astrologer Morin. Zoller studied with Zoltan Mason who introduced Morin and his basic natal delineation to Zoller. Zoltan was also one of the first translators of Morin.

Here are some tips for delineating the chart in this manner.

1. The good or bad signified by a house emanates from the ruler of the house.
This is the basic rule. The ruler of the house is giver of the material of the house.

Zoller gives the example of his own chart where he has Combusted Mercury in 11th, ruler of 4th. He comments that this kind of placement brings adversity to ones home and dwellings.

2. Benefit in one area of life can be produced by adversity, or even conflict, in another.

Again Zoller gives example from his own chart.
Jupiter in 9th in Scorpio disposited from Mars in 11th: Wisdom coming from conflicts.

poyi
11-18-2013, 01:35 PM
Sorry I got that chara atmakaraka wrong as it is talking about the navamsa chart not the regular natal.

http://hazratishq.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/atmakaraka-detailed-analysis-plus.html?m=1

greybeard
11-18-2013, 02:07 PM
SVP...You're on the right track.

Houses both influence and are influenced by their ruler. If a house governs "affairs", we can see that a state of affairs (in one area of life) can influence another.

Note the commentary provided for us by JupiterAsc from Morin. You would do well to read Morin. Some of his work is available free online.

JUPITERASC
11-18-2013, 09:15 PM
SVP...You're on the right track.

Houses both influence and are influenced by their ruler. If a house governs "affairs", we can see that a state of affairs (in one area of life) can influence another.

Note the commentary provided for us by JupiterAsc from Morin. You would do well to read Morin. Some of his work is available free online.
There's also http://www.forumonastrology.com/foa/newmain.html :smile:

QUOTE

'.....TRAINING BASED ON

THE ASTROLOGICAL METHODS OF THE 17th CENTURY ASTROLOGER MORIN DE VILLEFRANCHE (http://www.forumonastrology.com/foa/morin.html)
AS WAS TAUGHT BY ZOLTAN MASON (http://www.forumonastrology.com/foa/zmason.html) OF NEW YORK.

This approach stresses seeing the chart as a whole integrated unit

We teach the interpretation skills reuired to create an image of the person and to detect their motivations and drives.....'

Blacknight
11-20-2013, 05:26 AM
I also believe that there are only 7 fundamental "Cosmic Principles" (which we call planets), ie Sun, Mercury, Venus, Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. I believe that all other astrological factors (such as the outer planets, Lilith, the Witte points, asteroids even) are MIXTURES of the qualities (and thus the influences of) these 7 fundamental Cosmic Principles; following the lead of early Modernist pioneer Charles Carter, in my opinion the 3 outer planets represent mixtures of Cosmic Principles, as follows:

Uranus = mixture of Sun+Mars+Mercury qualities

Neptune = mixture of Jupiter+Venus+Moon qualities

Pluto = mixture of Sun+Mars+Saturn qualities

Not trying to convince anyone about these ideas:sideways:, just passing on some insights which have proven valuable to me.:biggrin:

You know, I wonder if the conceptual importance of the number Seven in Biblical scripture might be astrologically linked to the seven planets. Probably a far fetched idea...

dr. farr
11-20-2013, 05:35 AM
Maybe not so far-fetched!!:wink:

greybeard
11-20-2013, 02:17 PM
Maybe not so far-fetched, indeed.