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PlutonianPrincess
06-30-2013, 07:00 PM
The terms accidental and essential dignities are not so easy for me to understand.

A need help understanding accidental dignities when referring to my own chart.

If I understand correctly, I have Mars Conjunct the DC, which would be an accidental dignity. I also have Uranus almost Conjunct the MC. I also have Pluto Conjunct my Libra sun in the 8th and a Stellium there as well. And my Aries moon is considered a "reins" planet because it opposes the Stellium and directly affects many aspects of my life in general. All of these factors are accidental dignities, I think. I may have more, I don't know.

What I'm asking is: How do you determine the significance of an accidental dignity and how do I rank their importance in my or anyone's chart? Which accidental dignity in my own chart is the most significant and why and how do I interpret these things exactly? And also, how do I interpret essential dignities as well?

Please help, I am so confused. :crying:

JUPITERASC
06-30-2013, 08:30 PM
The terms accidental and essential dignities are not so easy for me to understand.

A need help understanding accidental dignities when referring to my own chart.

If I understand correctly, I have Mars Conjunct the DC, which would be an accidental dignity. I also have Uranus almost Conjunct the MC. I also have Pluto Conjunct my Libra sun in the 8th and a Stellium there as well. And my Aries moon is considered a "reins" planet because it opposes the Stellium and directly affects many aspects of my life in general. All of these factors are accidental dignities, I think. I may have more, I don't know.

What I'm asking is: How do you determine the significance of an accidental dignity and how do I rank their importance in my or anyone's chart? Which accidental dignity in my own chart is the most significant and why and how do I interpret these things exactly? And also, how do I interpret essential dignities as well?

Please help, I am so confused. :crying:
Dignities were formulated WITHOUT the most recently discovered outer planets and with Jupiter and Saturn being traditionally the outermost planets.

It is impossible to cram any more planets into the dignities table without making complete nonsense of its rationale - and in any event there is no consensus regarding alleged 'dignities of the outer planets' even if they could have dignity which they cannot :smile:


Detailed FREE guidance on UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html


LILLY'S TABLE TO EXAMINE THE STRENGTH & DEBILITY OF EACH PLANET
complete with points system for scoring
FREE for those with a low budget for book buying http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

Ptolemy's Table of Accidental Dignities

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/im/dig_sm.gif


FREE instructions
HOW TO READ Ptolemy's Table of Accidental Dignities at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html

Moog
06-30-2013, 08:43 PM
What I'm asking is: How do you determine the significance of an accidental dignity and how do I rank their importance in my or anyone's chart? Which accidental dignity in my own chart is the most significant and why and how do I interpret these things exactly? And also, how do I interpret essential dignities as well?

Explore weighing systems, like Lilly's numerical values or Vedic shad bala, or astrodynes

You may, after a long study, decide for yourself which are of value and which aren't

Moog
06-30-2013, 08:52 PM
Please help, I am so confused. :crying:

One easy to spot acc. dignity in your chart;

Mars would be considered to have good accidental dignity, due to being angular (7th house)

On this page (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html), under accidental dignities, you can see that Lilly assigns +4 points to a planet in the 7th house.

waybread
06-30-2013, 09:50 PM
Basically a planet has an essential dignity because of how it is located in a sign. A planet has an accidental dignity by virtue of a good placement in a house or in relation to another planet.

This system is used mostly in traditional astrology. If you do modern astrology, I wouldn't bother with it. As JA noted, you can't shoehorn the outder planets into the table of essential dignities.

So planet Venus has essential dignity because she's in Libra: the sign she rules. You can go through the table posted by Jupiter Ascendant to see whether you have planets in their own terms, faces, triplicities, or exaltations. Planets in their detriment or fall (like sun in Libra) lose a few points.

Angular planets have accidental dignity by virtue of their house placement, so your angular 7th house Mars gets a boost in the ratings.

If you want to blend in some modern astrology, the 9th house is quite respectable and Uranus there is your most elevated planet, so that would "accidentally" boost it a little.

See if this site is any help: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html

greybeard
07-01-2013, 04:13 AM
Mars is accidentally dignified by angularity.
Angular planets are always prominent in the character/destiny.
Although we could say that Uranus is angular (8 degrees, cadent)...and if you take him as ruler of the Asc (I don't see good reason to do so), even then, he lacks prominence and does not have the strength of Mars and Moon.

I use patterns heavily, and your Moon is handle of a bucket pattern (not reins, although they are functionally equivalent), and in my usage the most powerful planet in the chart. You can also call it the handle of a Fanhandle formation, which corresponds to a stellium but with the emphasis on the single planet, that is Moon in Aries.

Also note that Moon is in Aries, disposed by the accidentally dignified (therefore powerful) Mars. Both are in Fire, and in houses of relationship (7-11-3); Mars is peregrine. Notice also the wide but effective fiery trine between Mars and Neptune -- this trine "contains" or "limits" the bundle of planets that stand against the Moon, and it performs that function in your personality. This chart has a very fiery nature (study the signficance of Fire).

Essential dignity indicates personal characteristics which are essential: they are inherent, innate, inborn, not subject to change.

Accidental dignity suggests that the dignified planet has come to the fore through circumstantial or environmental causes, acquired characteristics stemming from adventitious or external stimuli. Accidental dignities are very powerful and important. The turning of the heavens (or other factors) have brought them to prominence in Your life; they are highly individualized, distinguish your chart and your life from others of the same birth date.

Observe the chart. There is an (almost) stellium in Libra, with Venus there. The power of the stellium is thrown into the Moon (she is the singleton in the Fanhandle, and besides is the handle planet of the whole-chart bucket formation, which brings her to superlative emphasis in any case.) But what happens is that she is ruled by the very powerful but peregrine Mars...and Moon is never comfortable in Aries anyway. Moon is swift of course (14d44m).

Mars controls (disposes) the Moon, and Moon ultimately directs the life. So we have a strong conflict going on between "relationships and cooperation" (Libra and the featured 7th House) and the Martial qualities of impetuosity and rash or unconsidered actions, ego-concern, fiery responses.... Moon always holds an implication of "relationships". The basic thrust of this chart, in my opinion, is concerned primarily with the dichotomy of "me" vs. "us". There is a strong polarization between self and other that calls for resolution.

Your characterstic or preferred mode of meeting life is to take action. You are expedient, concerned with the external world as you attempt to change or utilize the circumstances and situations you meet for your benefit, to suit your needs of the moment. You focus primarily on the immediate situation.

The close opposition of Moon to Mercury is important. It suggests to me a certain immaturity, which fits in with other features of the chart (Aries/Mars, primitive, immediate, naive.)

Moog's suggestion of studying "weighing systems" will be useful to you.

As far as individual planets go, I would begin study of this chart with Moon, taking into account all of her conditions...sign, house, house ruled, condtion of dispositor, aspects (Mercury forms her closest aspect and is applying), velocity, phase (full) and so on. That will give you a great deal of detail about yourself, because Moon as Handle planet of the one-pointed Bucket is very powerful in the life. She dominates every single aspect of your life.

PlutonianPrincess
07-01-2013, 04:40 PM
Mars is accidentally dignified by angularity.
Angular planets are always prominent in the character/destiny.
Although we could say that Uranus is angular (8 degrees, cadent)...and if you take him as ruler of the Asc (I don't see good reason to do so), even then, he lacks prominence and does not have the strength of Mars and Moon.

I use patterns heavily, and your Moon is handle of a bucket pattern (not reins, although they are functionally equivalent), and in my usage the most powerful planet in the chart. You can also call it the handle of a Fanhandle formation, which corresponds to a stellium but with the emphasis on the single planet, that is Moon in Aries.

Also note that Moon is in Aries, disposed by the accidentally dignified (therefore powerful) Mars. Both are in Fire, and in houses of relationship (7-11-3); Mars is peregrine. Notice also the wide but effective fiery trine between Mars and Neptune -- this trine "contains" or "limits" the bundle of planets that stand against the Moon, and it performs that function in your personality. This chart has a very fiery nature (study the signficance of Fire).

Essential dignity indicates personal characteristics which are essential: they are inherent, innate, inborn, not subject to change.

Accidental dignity suggests that the dignified planet has come to the fore through circumstantial or environmental causes, acquired characteristics stemming from adventitious or external stimuli. Accidental dignities are very powerful and important. The turning of the heavens (or other factors) have brought them to prominence in Your life; they are highly individualized, distinguish your chart and your life from others of the same birth date.

Observe the chart. There is an (almost) stellium in Libra, with Venus there. The power of the stellium is thrown into the Moon (she is the singleton in the Fanhandle, and besides is the handle planet of the whole-chart bucket formation, which brings her to superlative emphasis in any case.) But what happens is that she is ruled by the very powerful but peregrine Mars...and Moon is never comfortable in Aries anyway. Moon is swift of course (14d44m).

Mars controls (disposes) the Moon, and Moon ultimately directs the life. So we have a strong conflict going on between "relationships and cooperation" (Libra and the featured 7th House) and the Martial qualities of impetuosity and rash or unconsidered actions, ego-concern, fiery responses.... Moon always holds an implication of "relationships". The basic thrust of this chart, in my opinion, is concerned primarily with the dichotomy of "me" vs. "us". There is a strong polarization between self and other that calls for resolution.

Your characterstic or preferred mode of meeting life is to take action. You are expedient, concerned with the external world as you attempt to change or utilize the circumstances and situations you meet for your benefit, to suit your needs of the moment. You focus primarily on the immediate situation.

The close opposition of Moon to Mercury is important. It suggests to me a certain immaturity, which fits in with other features of the chart (Aries/Mars, primitive, immediate, naive.)

Moog's suggestion of studying "weighing systems" will be useful to you.

As far as individual planets go, I would begin study of this chart with Moon, taking into account all of her conditions...sign, house, house ruled, condtion of dispositor, aspects (Mercury forms her closest aspect and is applying), velocity, phase (full) and so on. That will give you a great deal of detail about yourself, because Moon as Handle planet of the one-pointed Bucket is very powerful in the life. She dominates every single aspect of your life.

GreyBeard--

Your explanation was so thorough and so well written tha I feel totally comfortable now with the understanding of accidental and essential dignities. So, I really want you to know I appreciate the time it took for you to help me.

I figured Mars and the Moon were most prominent in my chart, but I didn't have the words as to explain why, now I do.

I also feel as though my Libra Sun C Pluto also "balances" out my rash and impetuous Aries Moon with icy logic, but I am super intense also.

You're right. My theme in life has been a struggle between "me" and "them"-- I can never blend the two. It's a juxtaposed idea that is in constant inequality. As much as I want to be alone, I don't. I function just as well as a pair then I do by myself. It's bizarre and kinda stressful. I may have been immature when I was younger, but I've learned not to give in to my emotions so quickly. I've done quite a bit of growing since my Saturn return that lasted way longer than it should have because Saturn turned Rx and transmitted through my Stellium 3 times. I'm not going to lie; it was rough. But I believe now, I am much better for it.

You mentioned I have a lot of Fire, but I have just as much Air. I suppose that's good because they are complimentary elements and blend much easier then Fire and Water, for emailed, would.

I wanted to use my chart as an example because if I learn the elements of my own chart, then I can apply them in other places. I feel like my chart does have many distinct elements to understand, so it helps me learn.

I will definitely study and go through all of your suggestions.

Thanks again. :biggrin:

PlutonianPrincess
07-01-2013, 04:42 PM
Basically a planet has an essential dignity because of how it is located in a sign. A planet has an accidental dignity by virtue of a good placement in a house or in relation to another planet.

This system is used mostly in traditional astrology. If you do modern astrology, I wouldn't bother with it. As JA noted, you can't shoehorn the outder planets into the table of essential dignities.

So planet Venus has essential dignity because she's in Libra: the sign she rules. You can go through the table posted by Jupiter Ascendant to see whether you have planets in their own terms, faces, triplicities, or exaltations. Planets in their detriment or fall (like sun in Libra) lose a few points.

Angular planets have accidental dignity by virtue of their house placement, so your angular 7th house Mars gets a boost in the ratings.

If you want to blend in some modern astrology, the 9th house is quite respectable and Uranus there is your most elevated planet, so that would "accidentally" boost it a little.

See if this site is any help: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html

Thank you Waybread :)

I am going to go the link now. I appreciate everything you said and it's helped me :)

PlutonianPrincess
07-01-2013, 04:44 PM
Dignities were formulated WITHOUT the most recently discovered outer planets and with Jupiter and Saturn being traditionally the outermost planets.

It is impossible to cram any more planets into the dignities table without making complete nonsense of its rationale - and in any event there is no consensus regarding alleged 'dignities of the outer planets' even if they could have dignity which they cannot :smile:


Detailed FREE guidance on UNDERSTANDING PLANETARY DIGNITY http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html


LILLY'S TABLE TO EXAMINE THE STRENGTH & DEBILITY OF EACH PLANET
complete with points system for scoring
FREE for those with a low budget for book buying http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

Ptolemy's Table of Accidental Dignities

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/im/dig_sm.gif


FREE instructions
HOW TO READ Ptolemy's Table of Accidental Dignities at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html

Thanks JupiterASC! I'm going to go through the links today. I appreciate it. :)

greybeard
07-01-2013, 04:57 PM
"...but I am super intense also."

Guess what. The "keyword" for Moon when she is brought to high focus, as when she is the handle of a bucket, is intensity. This is bolstered by Sun conj. Pluto and Mars on the Angle, as well as the stellium (intense concentration of planets). I was going to mention intensity in the original post, but glad I didn't...for now you have said it.

I am aware of the strength of Air, as I assumed you are. The reason I pointed to Fire is that Moon (who is the focus of release for the Air stellium) is in Fire, her lord is in Fire, and the bundled planets opposing Moon are contained by Fire. Seven of the ten planets are in masculine signs, a preponderance.

PlutonianPrincess
07-01-2013, 05:13 PM
"...but I am super intense also."

Guess what. The "keyword" for Moon when she is brought to high focus, as when the handle of a bucket is intensity. This is bolstered by Sun conj. Pluto and Mars on the Angle, as well as the stellium (intense concentration of planets). I was going to mention intensity in the original post, but glad I didn't...for now you have said it.

I am aware of the strength of Air, as I assumed you are. The reason I pointed to Fire is that Moon (who is the focus of release for the Air stellium) is in Fire, her lord is in Fire, and the bundled planets opposing Moon are contained by Fire. Seven of the ten planets are in masculine signs, a preponderance.

:D

I'm reading up on Peregin now. It seems that I also have a "Peregin Island" with my Sun only aspected C Pluto. From what I have read so far, this should also be at the forefront of my personality.

I know you knew about the Air, I was just saying that the Fire and Air were complimentary and I was just commenting that I was "glad" they were in compliment than not.

I really do appreciate everything you said, I am learning a lot. :)

greybeard
10-12-2013, 06:12 AM
very good job of assessing your accidental dignities.

I would not consider Moon a "reins" planet (a term reserved for the splay pattern) but she is the Handle planet of a Bucket pattern, which makes Moon the predominant planet in this horoscope for that reason alone. Her influence pervades every aspect of the life. There yoo have your strongest accidental dignity (supported and enhanced because Moon is also Fanhandle planet, singleton below the Earth, ruled by the very powerful and angular Mars (his status rises greatly in power in the chart because he determines and disposes the supreme Moon; however he is exiled from his natural mundane house.)

We notice the very powerful emphasis on Relationships (Mars conj. 7th cusp, Libra stellium, Venus final dispositor of chart [an essential dignity and very important -- ultimate determinant of life), Sun in Libra, chart's defining opposition involving Libra -- and featuring Moon in Aries [ego and self-interest], an essential conflict.) Also note that the midpoint of Mars/Neptune falls on 12 Libra 35, with Sun very close to that degree, and therefore on the center of gravity of the body of the Bucket. Thus, balance and stability come through directed use of the will and fulfillment of purpose, the pursuit of mastery.

The Moon is nearly vertical to the midpoint axis, with a slight right-hand leaning. The greatly heightened Intensity of the Moon may lead to a rather ruthless pursuit of life's goals, and will certainly demand the cooperation of others and their devotion in every endeavor. What we see here is a primary conflict between the very important sphere of relationships with the need to attend to the interests of the self and ego. This is the central theme of the life. This personality is notable for the quick and ready willingness to meet every new circumstance actively and energetically, expeditiously, with an eye to exploiting every passing opportunity to the benefit of self and its ends. There is a "Git 'er done" attitude. Blah, blah, blah.

IleneK
10-12-2013, 02:51 PM
:D

I really do appreciate everything you said, I am learning a lot. :)

Me, too!

Greybeard, I always learn something when you delineate a chart. Thank you both for your reasoned and thoughtful discourse.

greybeard
10-12-2013, 03:09 PM
I seldom get into delineation here.

But Princess did her homework first, then asked...
She wants to learn about astrology and is not primarily focused on her ego.

I am in this forum to teach and learn...not to inflate egos.

And thank you both for your thank-yous. You girls really know how to manipulate a guy. I suppose the next step is a Honey-Do list.

I have firewood duty to attend to....Later.