PDA

View Full Version : Questions: Mental Illness & Physical Illness?


KayBug
08-10-2007, 12:10 AM
I'm not sure I have started this thread in the right forum. If not, please feel free to move it to the correct one.

Questions:

Does anyone see Mental Illness in this chart? If so, please elaborate as best and as much you can. I'm really not that familiar with astrological jargon so, whenever possible, please keep it simple. ;)

Does anyone see any Physical Illness' in this chart? If so, can you please tell what type(s), severity, possible duration and perhaps outcomes.

Depending on how this thread evolves it could be a good case study.

I want to thank everyone in advance who posts, analyzes and helps with these questions.

KayBug

"One never knows another person's pain until they have been there themself" - Kay G.

lillyjgc
08-10-2007, 05:23 AM
Kaybug,

Firstly I look to the ascendant- scorpio and the moon in H12 applying to it, also in scorpio-.The sun is in the house 4 in pisces this place being ruled by Saturn. The sun is just past but within orb of an opposition to Saturn.The square of Saturn retrograde to chiron in house 2 suggests to me *old wounds* which involve one's self esteem.
As the sun is applying to a square with chiron perhaps these old kharmic wounds will resurface during the current lifetime, drawing my attention to the H6 cusp- which is Aries, Mars, a fiery sign and mars is in H11 in an airy sign suggesting bronchial inflammations or even kidney-lung meridian not strong. Mars is in its fall in Libra and can't act-very indecisive placement and mars also retrograde emphasising the theme of illness that goes back to the past.

With mars in an applying square to Uranus in H8 *failure to act* could have drastic ,fatal even, results.Mercury rules H8 and it is close to the House 4 cusp (endings) in pisces which gives communication a haphazard and ungrounded flavour.
Mercury also rules the (lower) mind and it is right at the bottom of the chart but trine to uranus and fortuna in H8. This person has a strong intuition but may not know how to apply it, but it is a most helpful aspect and may even be a life-saving aspect if triggered by transits from benefics. (sudden windfalls sudden flashes of insight/awareness)
There is a yod with the sun as its peak in house 4 in pisces, with neptune and pluto (from house 9) forming a sextile. Finding an outlet for this psychic energy will have to be faced.
The sun trines the asc giving physical vigour usually but not really when in pisces where it is lazy, inner,changeable and a bit dreamy and unfocussed.

With Jupiter in Aquarius square the ascendant and Jupiter answering to saturn debilitated in virgo, where it is fussy, tetchy and overly fastidious (hypochondriac even), much of jupiter's beneficence is lessened but its trine to neptune enhances the intuitive functions of this person.
With scorpio asc and moon a very private person, unable to express him/herself well emotionally (moon in H12 in scorpio (detriment).
Scorpio may fuel strong passions and jealousies and as the moon is square venus this may play out in matters relating to women or love and venus is in house 3-aquarius showing more of an interest in mental friendships.The moon's trine to Uranus/Pars suggests an intuitive brilliant perceptive faculty.

Again saturn rules House 3 (cap)..the mind..its opposition to the sun (with the yod considered) suggests a depressive person possibly reclusive.Mars and Neptune in H11 ruled by mercury suggest either mystical friends or unsavoury types that impact on the natives health (mars ruling H6 and H1)
I'm sure this person would be very hard to fathom. That yod will surely play a part- irreconcilable differences within the person.
Sun quincunx pluto makes an arrogant passive-aggressive personality who must learn how to compromise instead of running off home to go back to the land of dreams.The moon is also quincunx the N Node so this person finds it hard to *get on* with people. In fact this person might like to conduct relationships over the internet.

Uranus is semi square pluto which indicates emotional problems and uranus is also sesisquadrate the asc making this person appear a bit strange to others.
The square of Pluto to the Asc is another sign of aggression or bullying but more of a psychological kind.

Pluto on the Mc is a powerful placement- changes in career, issues with the mother, This person needs to learn how to use personal power for the good.
Sex will play a big role in this person's life but the opposition to jupiter is major and can create a very ruthless person.(in contradiction of saturn's very timid placement in virgo).
this person will give out *mixed messages* and have *hidden agendas*..there is a *victim mentality* that may come out as extreme defensiveness but as Mars is detrimented,so may actions be (especially as regards friends, groups etc).

Certainly a personality disorder is a possibility but maybe a histrionic or neurotic based nature.This person is sensitive to their OWN feelings, but not those of others-this alone can wreak havoc in anyone's life....(ps Hope this isn't your chart-I'm being brutally frank here) warm wishes Lillyjgc

Shining Ray
08-10-2007, 05:50 AM
The Grand trine with Mercury in Pisces 4th, (how the person thinks, mental functioning) Uranus in Cancer 8th, (uniqueness, unusual, intuitive) and Moon in Scorpio 12th (the unconscious, emotional and habitual responses).

This could suggest because of the Grand trine that this person is locked in their own world. The Moon in the paranoid sign of Scorpio, Mercury in the confused sign of Pisces, Uranus in Cancer, emotionally unstable. But all of this flows easily for the person.

lillyjgc
08-10-2007, 06:46 AM
yep- I agree with that. Can I ask if the person is male or female? lillyjgc

KayBug
08-10-2007, 11:55 AM
lilly,

This person is female.

Lissa
08-10-2007, 01:44 PM
Hi Kay Bug,

I'm sorry to ask you,and you don't have to answer me if you don't feel comfortable talking about it,but exacly what symptons has this person experienced?Your post immediately caught my atention,there are two cases of bipolar disorder and two of schizophrenia in my mother's side of the family,so I have great interest in studying the astrological configurations that show such things.

The thing about mental illnesses is that it's still all a little bit unclear about what causes them.Most people think mentally ill people can chose when to "shut off" their disorders and act normal again,when the truth is,they can't.That's why it's a mental illness,becuse there's something wrong with the brain's dynamics that makes the person lose control of their behaviour.

There are lots of mental illnesses with different symptons,so I think it's important to know what mental illness do you think this person has.For example,bipolar disorder would have more to do with the Moon(since it's a mood disorder)where as Schizophrenia would probably have more to do with Mercury(the brain),even though the entire chart plays a very important role into this.

KayBug
08-10-2007, 02:39 PM
Lissa,

Over the years of this person's life and through more than one "Rites of Passage" this person has been diagnosed/labeled:

Axis I - Bipolar
Axis I - changed diagnosis - Bipolar II

Axis II - Borderline Personality Disorder

Axis III - Major Severe Recurrent Depression

Axis IV - Suicidal Ideations/Actions

Axis V - Dysthymia


what symptons has this person experienced?

This person has experienced the symptoms conducive to the above named Axis'.

KayBug
08-10-2007, 03:03 PM
The Grand trine with Mercury in Pisces 4th, (how the person thinks, mental functioning) Uranus in Cancer 8th, (uniqueness, unusual, intuitive) and Moon in Scorpio 12th (the unconscious, emotional and habitual responses).

This could suggest because of the Grand trine that this person is locked in their own world. The Moon in the paranoid sign of Scorpio, Mercury in the confused sign of Pisces, Uranus in Cancer, emotionally unstable. But all of this flows easily for the person.


A good interpretation/observation.

KayBug
08-10-2007, 03:42 PM
lilly,

Thank you very much for your post. I'm very excited with all the information you provided.

Arian Maverick
08-10-2007, 05:37 PM
I fear I'm getting a bit off-topic here, but did anyone notice the tight opposition between the North Node in Aries in the fifth house and retrograde Mars in Libra (sign of Mars' detriment) in the eleventh house?

The entire chart somehow seems connected to this axis--just look at all the planets/points at the seventh degree of a sign!

The twelfth house Moon in Scorpio is semisextile the tight Mars/South Node conjunction and quincunx the North Node; Venus in Aquarius in the third house is tightly square the Moon/trine the tight Mars/South Node conjunction and sextile the North Node.

I believe the emphasis upon the 16th/17th degree has already been described through the description of the yod (ninth house Pluto in Leo sextile eleventh house Neptune in Libra, both quincunx the fourth house Pisces Sun). The Sun's opposition to Saturn turns this yod configuration into a boomeran; there are a lot of heavy-hitting outer planets contacting that sensitive Pisces Sun! And it doesn't recieve much help from the other plants in the chart, with the exception of a wide trine from the Scorpio Moon.

I'm not sure what this all has to say about mental or physical illness, but it's a start, I suppose...

EDIT: Out of curiosity, I have posted some important Sabian symbols:

North Node: Aries 8: A womans hat with streamers blown by the east wind.

South Node: Libra 8: A blazing fireplace in a deserted home.

Moon: Scorpio 8: The silvery moon shining across a beautiful gem of a lake.

Venus: Aquarius 8: Beautiful gowned wax figures on display.

Sun: Pisces 18: In a huge tent a famous revivalist conducts his meeting with a spectacular performance.

Pluto: Leo 17: Volunteer church choir makes social event of rehersal.

Neptune: Libra 17: A retired sea captain watches ships entering and leaving the harbour.

Saturn: Virgo 16: Delighted children crowd around the orangutan cage in a zoo.

Arian Maverick

Lissa
08-10-2007, 06:25 PM
Hi KayBug,thank you for explaining.

I decided to look at the3rd house(the mind)and it's ruler,which is Saturn.The thing that is most striking about Saturn is that it makes no aspect apart from the opposition to the Sun.Since the Sun represents the conscience,this person's conscient being is being compromised by restrictive Saturn.

Since you said this person was diagnosed Bipolar,I looked at the Moon.I personally would not take the water grand trine because the orbs are too wide and the aspect are separating;only the Mercury/Uranus trine is applying.I need to tell you that the Mercury/Uranus trine doesn't surprise me at all,with Uranus ruling electrical impulses and Mercury ruling the mind itself,I believe Uranus can be implied in lots of cases of mental illnesses.So the Moon is in Scorpio,making such a tight square to Venus in Aquarius.Hard aspects between the Moon and venus compromise one's self-esteem,making the individual doubt themselves.Isn't that what depression is all about?

Shining Ray
08-10-2007, 07:57 PM
I personally would include the grand trine as I think it does fall within orb. I think good points were brought up about Mars in this chart by lilly and Arien as Mars rules the 1st and 6th house both health related houses and is square to Uranus. Mars being Retrograde and in fall must have a strong affect on his personality. Jupiter (rules the higher mind, and optimism) is opposed by Pluto (which I have read is one of the main indicators for mental illness) these planets both being on angles make this a prominent aspect in the chart. Plus both planets square the Asc and fall along the 3rd/9th axis. And Pluto is chart ruler along with Mars.

unukalhai
08-10-2007, 10:10 PM
Some very good points here, nice going as always folks :D

Mercury in both detriment and fall in Pisces, seriously shaken up by a trine from a strongly placed Uranus (in the dark 8th house, house is cusp-ruled by Mercury (Gemini), natural house lord Pluto in tight stress aspect to Uranus, both Uranus and Pluto configured with the ASC/DSC axis in the 8th harmonic). By essential dignities of Ptolomy, Mercury is the weakest planet in the chart at -7 dignity. Digging in a little deeper I see that Moon makes a near-perfect 16th harmonic (acute stress) aspect to Moon, 112.5 degrees (5/16th's). In the 16th harmonic chart, the Moon-Mercury conjunction is opposite the midpoint of a Jupiter-Pluto square, forming a 135/90/135 16H "stress triangle" blowing this placement into a far more important consideration. JU/PL=MO/ME is very, very tight in the 16th harmonic chart. Here we see the main factor of the pull between optimism/mania (Jupiter) and stripped-to-the-core darkness and shadow material (Pluto) playing out both in the conscious mind (Mercury) and emotional self (Moon). It's not just the mind that needs to be healed; it's the soul itself and the person's mental-emotional (Mercury-Moon) linkage at a very deep level. This person doesn't need psychology, they need a trained healer who can go far deeper than a label-stamping shrink could ever. That Scorpio Moon is hanging on to some serious residual wounds, as a Scorpio Moon usually does, while in the 12th shows the healing must be done internally by the native through the inner self, that outside help has little access except through the "back door" (regressions, hypnosis, chakra work, shadow retrieval, etc), and the <1 degree square to Venus shows a real challenge to find any form of emotional balance and harmony. Mars-SN conjunction shows the past life negative actions involved misapplied aggression, and in the sign Libra likely relate to relationships, further indicated by TNP Vulkanus (force, ultimate and unstoppable power) opposing the midpoint of that partile Moon-Venus square. In short, this translates to potentially serious sacral and/or heart chakra issues that need to be addressed directly, which in turn will resolve the apparent mental issues, which are little more than an outward representation of a deeper problem. Modern psychology just doesn't get to the root of problems, only their outward manifestations, sadly enough. This does nothing to promote actual healing.

I would also point out self-worth is another potential root cause of his/her's problems, as Chiron is placed in the 2nd house of personal appreciation/personal values.

3rd house cusp Capricorn - bleak outlook of everyday thoughts, siblings may also have promoted a negative mental consciousness. Can make common mental logic very stark and cold.

Mercury's placement opposite the Saturn/Pluto midpoint is highly malefic, Saturn/Pluto is, IMHO, one of the most destructive midpoints in the chart. Noel Tyl uses the simple word "loss" to describe it's influence, Ebertin uses "hard labor, cruelty" while mundane astrologers relate Saturn/Pluto directly to warfare and mass death (see also: iraq war, 9/11, etc). To put it lightly, this combination is anything but positive. Sure, good can come from Saturn/Pluto, mainly in the form of intense endurance and penetrating insight into structures of any type, but the cases of bad coming from this pair are far more likely and numerous. ME=SA/PL could be simply put as "losses and hardships through the mental facilities".

Regarding physical illness, has there been problems with the lymphatic system? Just a curiosity :)

Just a few thoughts :)

KayBug
08-11-2007, 01:56 AM
unukalhai,

Yes, this person has problems with the Lymphatic System.

This person also has other physical problems/illnesses. Not psychomatic illnesses as I/one would think. Physical problems/illnesses diagnosed by medical doctors of their specialty and medical tests confirmed. (Exception-But I would venture to guess that thought order or disorder could manifest in real physical illness. What do you think?)

Thank you very much for all the information in your post.

unukalhai
08-11-2007, 05:15 AM
Yes, this person has problems with the Lymphatic System.


Most interesting. The Lymphatic System is directly associated with the sacral chakra, hence why I posed the question. Do you have dates for any of the important events, such as diagnoses, suicide attempts, breakthroughs or breakdowns? I'd like to see if any line up with important planetary cycles, and I can say up-front I am mighty suspect of that 2nd house Chiron. Unresolved 2nd house (personal worth) issues are sure-fire ways to bring on serious depression and sacral imbalances, Although it may be totally unrelated to Chiron. A curiousity for sure!

I'm not sure if you've studied the chakras, but they are an excellent addition to astrological interpretation. In my personal viewpoint, the chakra systems are not just a part of human existance, but a microcosm-macrocosm system - the body has chakras, as do cities, nations, the earth itself, and even the Sun. 7 major body chakras, 7 major visible moving objects in the solar system. (Sun+Moon+Mercury-Saturn). Doubtfully just a coincidence.

Highly recommended reading material detailing the chakras, although not in an astrological sense Ruth White - Working With Your Chakras, A Physical, Emotional and Spiritual Approach (http://www.amazon.com/Working-Your-Chakras-Emotional-Spiritual/dp/0760730784/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-6861881-2288762?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186807406&sr=8-2)

A nice piece indeed!


This person also has other physical problems/illnesses. Not psychomatic illnesses as I/one would think. Physical problems/illnesses diagnosed by medical doctors of their specialty and medical tests confirmed. (Exception-But I would venture to guess that thought order or disorder could manifest in real physical illness. What do you think?)


I've come to the conclusion that the all the bodies (physical, emotional, astral, etheric, etc) are all very tightly interwoven, and there is also a strong link between biological and psychological processes. Imbalances in one area throw other areas off balance. It must be dealt with in a holistic manner. In today's world of medicine the full focus is on chemicals, as if just the right molecule can cure something. Sometimes, it works, but as you'll notice, most of the more complex conditions, affecting multiple bodies of the native, can only be slowed down or reduced in symptom, not cured. Partial reduction of suffering is not healing, but management of a condition, and "modern medicine" admits to exactly that. Greed - They won't make money for years off someone if they actually cure! True healing addresses the root cause, all the root causes, as a holistic subset of imbalance. Chemical medicine has its place, but is not effective in and of itself. It is unfortunate in today's culture we are led to believe that anything besides the current "fad" is "outdated", "unevolved", and "mythical". Someday, we'll get past this block and start integrating the ancient healing techniques with modern medicine. It's begun, but is still in infancy.

Thank you very much for all the information in your post.

You're very welcome :)

KayBug
08-12-2007, 03:55 PM
I don't know any of the dates.

This person did have a nervous breakdown at 13 yrs old. (Not hospitalized. Those things were taken care of at home secretly then for the most part.) Starting at about age 21 this person has been hospitalized on and off at certain periods of life for the mental health aspect. Last two hospitalizations being in 1999 and 2002.