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Fawx
02-09-2013, 03:40 PM
Greetings

I am interested in final diposition / Mututal Reception. I wanted to know opinions on this topic and the level of important you fellow astrologers feel this has in a natal chart and how it may develop or be noticed in ones life.

I was curious what my final dipositor was since I have Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house. Also I have a bowl chart and this is the leading planet. Pluto is also conjunct my vertex. Yet Jupiter and Mars are in mutual reception but Mars traditional ruler is Scorpio. If anyone can please let me know their opinion on these topics. I love this forum

Attached my pullen chart and natal chart from astro.com

JUPITERASC
02-09-2013, 04:01 PM
Greetings

I am interested in final diposition / Mututal Reception. I wanted to know opinions on this topic and the level of important you fellow astrologers feel this has in a natal chart and how it may develop or be noticed in ones life.

I was curious what my final dipositor was since I have Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house. Also I have a bowl chart and this is the leading planet. Pluto is also conjunct my vertex. Yet Jupiter and Mars are in mutual reception but Mars traditional ruler is Scorpio. If anyone can please let me know their opinion on these topics. I love this forum
Mars is the traditional ruler of both Aries and Scorpio as shown on the following Table of Essential Dignities and Debilities Fawx :smile:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/im/dignities2.gif
source of above table: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html

Final Dispositors ONLY happen when there is ONE planet placed in its own Domicile.

Mutual Reception by Domicile and multiple planets in their own Domicile negate any chance of having a Final Dispositor.

The term that I use for things that chart factors dispose to (including Final Dispositors, multiple planets in Domicile, mutual receptions and multiple receptions) is "chart root". Please see my article on the Education board about this:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17099

Please do not use the term Final Dispositor for configurations that are not truely Final Dispositor qualified.

There is enough co-opting of terms incorrectly in astrology as it is - let's not muddy the waters even further.
Final Dispositors In Mutual Reception http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=161800#post161800

IleneK
02-09-2013, 04:25 PM
Greetings

I am interested in final diposition / Mututal Reception. I wanted to know opinions on this topic and the level of important you fellow astrologers feel this has in a natal chart and how it may develop or be noticed in ones life.

I was curious what my final dipositor was since I have Pluto in Scorpio in the 5th house. Also I have a bowl chart and this is the leading planet. Pluto is also conjunct my vertex. Yet Jupiter and Mars are in mutual reception but Mars traditional ruler is Scorpio. If anyone can please let me know their opinion on these topics. I love this forum

Attached my pullen chart and natal chart from astro.com

I think if you follow rulerships beginning with your Sun, that the rulership ends with Mars in Sagittarius in mutual reception with Jupiter in Aries. I'm not sure what your point is about, "but Mars is the traditional ruler of Scorpio." It is the traditional ruler, but I don't see the point you are raising in connection with the mutual reception. However, coming back to your question about final dispositor, if there are planets in mutual reception, then there is no one final dispositor.

I personally tend to refer only to the traditional rulers for most rulership matters, like rulers of the houses, mutual reception or final dispositor. I do say that Pluto itself is dignified in Scorpio, along with Mars. So your Pluto in Scorpio as leading planet in the bowl is very strong and important, makes you most Scorpionic in that respect.

What is your experience to date of your mutual reception between fiery Jupiter and Mars? Of your Pluto as leading planet in the bowl?

Fawx
02-09-2013, 04:29 PM
I didn't know if my Pluto was my final dipositor because it was in its own sign.

To be honest I am trying to figure out how that mutual reception between these two planets has played out between 6th and 10th house? What does this mutual reception usually indicate?

What is your opinion on mutual reception? Does it hold importance? Is it usually internal or external

As for Pluto in Scorpio 5th house, I am obsessive over my artistic self expression and it does have a darker tint to it. I have to do something with this Pluto figuration otherwise I become self destructive. I am just wish I knew how to figure this out career wise with this placement

Thanks for your reply

Fawx
02-09-2013, 04:54 PM
I didn't know if my Pluto was my final dipositor because it was in its own sign.

To be honest I am trying to figure out how that mutual reception between these two planets has played out between 6th and 10th house? What does this mutual reception usually indicate?

What is your opinion on mutual reception? Does it hold importance? Is it usually internal or external

As for Pluto in Scorpio 5th house, I am obsessive over my artistic self expression and it does have a darker tint to it. I have to do something with this Pluto figuration otherwise I become self destructive. I am just wish I knew how to figure this out career wise with this placement

Thanks for your reply

IleneK
02-09-2013, 04:54 PM
I didn't know if my Pluto was my final dipositor because it was in its own sign.

To be honest I am trying to figure out how that mutual reception between these two planets has played out between 6th and 10th house? What does this mutual reception usually indicate?

What is your opinion on mutual reception? Does it hold importance? Is it usually internal or external

As for Pluto in Scorpio 5th house, I am obsessive over my artistic self expression and it does have a darker tint to it. I have to do something with this Pluto figuration otherwise I become self destructive. I am just wish I knew how to figure this out career wise with this placement

Thanks for your reply

Okay. So the matter of Pluto as final dispositor is resolved. Pluto is not final dispositor of your chart. There isn't one.

Pluto leading the bowl and making a trine to your natal, exalted Venus in Pisces may account for the obsessive nature regarding your artistic endeavors. Also Pluto's square to your Sun Moon midpoint.

I think the strength of both the MR between Mars and Jup from 6th to 10th, and with Mars ruling the 10th house, AND with Jupiter also traditionally ruling your MC and Venus, there is great promise for energy and success with your career in the outer world.

Fawx
02-09-2013, 05:05 PM
Okay. So the matter of Pluto as final dispositor is resolved. Pluto is not final dispositor of your chart. There isn't one.

Pluto leading the bowl and making a trine to your natal, exalted Venus in Pisces may account for the obsessive nature regarding your artistic endeavors.

I think the strength of both the MR combined with a trining aspect between Mars and Jup from 6th to 10th, and with Mars ruling the 10th house, AND with Jupiter also traditionally ruling your MC and Venus, there is great promise for energy and success with your career in the outer world.

Ya im sorry about confusion I do understand what you were saying regarding MR.

Regarding experience with MR I just turned 25 while I have work experience I have not formed my career. Neptune on my MC and Neptune being strong in my chart has provided me with a lot of the foggies :unsure: and do not have clear perspective. I never really have trouble finding employment for a J.O.B. But as I am getting older want to start to lay foundation for career just having difficulty figuring out what that is and how to pursue it. Wish I knew as its driving me crazy with all this energy I want to put towards my career :w00t: lol

IleneK
02-09-2013, 05:09 PM
Ya im sorry about confusion I do understand what you were saying regarding MR.

Regarding experience with MR I just turned 25 while I have work experience I have not formed my career. Neptune on my MC and Neptune being strong in my chart has provided me with a lot of the foggies :unsure: and do not have clear perspective. I never really have trouble finding employment for a J.O.B. But as I am getting older want to start to lay foundation for career just having difficulty figuring out what that is and how to pursue it. Wish I knew as its driving me crazy with all this energy I want to put towards my career :w00t: lol

Well, what have you done or what ideas do you have?

Fawx
02-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Well, what have you done or what ideas do you have?

With my MR i also notice i do well with interviewing employment and authority usually takes a liking to me.

As far as job experience I have a lot all over place working since 12yrs old retail, restaurant, pharmaceuticals, p.r., aerospace and missile design, stable work, doctors office,salon lol it's all over place. They we income for sake of income. I get bored easily which may be a problem but have never done anything I am passionate about


As for career I would like to do something artistic with movies or music but not sure how it would factor in? As I know Neptune mc can rule both movies and music not sure how to make this happen or what avenue. I do know that my career with be of great fulfillment to me in this lifetime and I will spend much time there with my N node conjunct my MC. Just that darn foggy Neptune clouds me. I know career and vocation are so hard to discern in a natal chart because there can be multiple possibilities

Also I know there is more to career than just mc.

IleneK
02-09-2013, 06:58 PM
With my MR i also notice i do well with interviewing employment and authority usually takes a liking to me.

As I know Neptune mc can rule both movies and music not sure how to make this happen or what avenue. I do know that my career with be of great fulfillment to me in this lifetime and I will spend much time there with my N node conjunct my MC. Just that darn foggy Neptune clouds me. I know career and vocation are so hard to discern in a natal chart because there can be multiple possibilities

Also I know there is more to career than just mc.

Neptune is not only fogginess. It is the seat of inspiration and imagination. It is open and without bounds. If these other attributes are making matters hard to clarify, then look to your Saturn to help you create form and boundaries. You've really got everything you need.

Wishing you the very best.

greybeard
02-10-2013, 02:52 PM
A final dispositor is a planet which stands at the top of the chain of rulership in the given chart.

Importance of a final dispositor?.....Go to work, talk to your floor manager. He or she will take your question to the department manager, who will go to the CEO. The buck stops here. This is the final dispositor.

Two very good example charts: Martin Luther (16th century) and Bruce Lee. Both have Mars as final dispositor. Both were warriors.

The word "dispositor" comes from "dispose." Look up "dispose" to understand the type of power invested in a Final Dispositor ("final" = "the last word").

If you aren't making "rulership" a priority consideration in reading a chart, you are missing the boat. And if the chain of rulership leads you to a Final Dispositor, or even two planets in mutual disposition of the whole chart, they are Determinate. They carry more than normal weight in the interpretation.

I guess your question isn't so much about final dispositors and mutual reception. It's about "read my chart."

So, Pluto is your leading planet. "The leading planet colors every aspect of the life, regardless of the power of any other planet." It is brought to High Focus, and becomes a superlative version of itself. A final dispositor is about as powerful (depending on other things). But they act a bit differently. Remember that becoming a leading planet is an accidental dignity, while a final dispositor holds essential dignity; the two are not the same.

Fawx
02-12-2013, 03:31 AM
Would Pluto be stronger than any other planet in my chart

Besides Neptune my oriental, also in 7th, also on my mc?

Kaiousei no Senshi
02-12-2013, 05:43 AM
To maybe introduce a different viewpoint on this, traditionally there is no such thing as a final dispositor. A planet is only responsible for the planets in his own house, but this doesn't trickle down to determine the effectiveness of other planets throughout the chart. A planet in the sign of another is a planet who goes out to accomplish something in that sign, the condition of its lord and their relationship determines how well that first planet can accomplish that, as the lord of that sign is responsible for supplying the materials based on his condition. This is the Hellenistic principle of counteraction, where a planet whose dispositor is strong benefits from it, whereas a planet whose dispositor is weak suffers in turn.

This isn't something that trickles about the chart because counteraction is a 1:1 consideration about the effectiveness of a planet to accomplish what it seeks through the aid of its lord. That first planet will then be scrutinized in turn to determine how well he will be able to assist planets in his signs.

As an example, let's look at your Moon. She is in Aquarius, the Sign of Saturn, wherein she has no dignity. In order for her to accomplish something, she's going to need help from her dispositor. Luckily she can see him through a Sextile aspect, but unfortunately he has no power to assist her because he also has no dignity and is placed inside of an unfortunate house, so he has nothing to give her and she's mostly on her own. Saturn, though, is in Sagittarius, a Sign of Jupiter, also in a place where he has no dignity (he may have term here, but still), so he's going to need help. Luckily he is able to see Jupiter who is well placed within the Tenth house, but doesn't have essential strength to help Saturn out with, so this is something of a middling influence and is somewhat useful.

The Moon doesn't benefit from Saturn's relationship with Jupiter, because planets can't pass on excess resources from their dispositors.

Basically the idea of final dispositor attempts to combine the two different ideas (ability to perform and quality of assistance), which are different considerations.

Would Pluto be stronger than any other planet in my chart

In my opinion, the most powerful planet in your chart is Jupiter. The most elevated and your only angular planet.

With my MR i also notice i do well with interviewing employment and authority usually takes a liking to me.

Yes, the issue with this configuration between Jupiter and Mars is that it isn't really a reception since that requires an aspect. This is a mutual generosity. The best analogy to this I've heard is that reception is being greeted at the door and having a hot meal on the table, whereas generosity is a key under the mat and a frozen dinner and the microwave. They're thinking about one another and doing their best together, but their best isn't very game-changing. This will probably continue to manifest much the same way it has, getting jobs that don't turn into a career.

greybeard
02-12-2013, 07:57 AM
My experience shows that final dispositors strongly influence a life, when they are present iin a chart.

Far be it from me to disagree with the great old masters, but when convincing personal experience conflicts with time-honored dogma, I must opt to follow experience.

An example of "experience" comes from a comparison of the lives and characters of the 16th century religious reformer, Martin Luther, and the indomitable Bruce Lee. Both men have Mars in Scorpio as final dispositor of the horoscope.

I understand the 1:1 relationship of planets in a vassal-lord relationship. But, what seems to me to be neglected in your description, based on the writings of the Classical astrologers, is that Mars stands at the top of a pyramid or cascade of power. That each pair of owner-leaseholder relationships operates on a tu por tu basis is a practical fact; it is an immediate, direct and reciprocal relationship, one characterized by a dominant-submissive nature. The lord of a sign dominates, determines, disposes, rules whatever is found in his house. Because Mars is the apex planet, he then ascends to a determination of the tone of the whole life and character, the destiny.

Final disposition is an Essential Dignity; it is based wholly on sign rulership. Being "essential" means "of the essence of," and essential dignities have to do with just that: the essence, the most primitive and unchanging urges to the most sublime aspirations, Because it is based on sign rulership, which is the strongest of the essential dignities, the position of Mars at the apex of rulership becomes very powerful indeed, and is Determinate of the life.

Both Lee and Luther had Mars as final dispositor. The essence of both men was "the Warrior." This is quite obvious in the case of Lee, less so in the life of Luther. The fundamental statement made by Luther's chart is that of a warrior on a mission to purify the world (in the body of the Church, and his own body and mind.) A look at his life shows a true warrior. He was one man (yes, with some good friends) who stood against the might of the Church and challenged the Pope to Purify the Church.

In Luther's chart, Mars in Scorpio directly rules three other planets who accompany him in a Fourth House Scorpio stellium. He also directly rules Moon, who is solitaire above the horizon in Ninth House Aries. So Mars directly influences four other planets from his highest dignity, Scorpio, the sign of Purification. The stellium shows obsession with purification, at the foundation of his being (The Fourth House.) Mars is Dispositor of this stellium, and through these other planets influences and dominates those subservient to them. This final dispositor holds superlative power in this chart, as portrayed in the life.

We might also mention that Mars is The Innovator. Mars leads, takes the initiative.

Let's say we have an old sailing ship. The captain (Mars in Luther's chart) says to hiis first mate, "Mr. Johnson, furl the main-top." Mr. Johnson does not himself climb to the main-top yard and neatly furl the sail. He orders his servants to do it, just as he was ordered by his master. The captain does not mingle with the crew; his position demands that he hold himself apart. But his will is carried out by and through his subordinates. And that is exactly how final disposition works. The ship goes where the captain wills it to go. The crew carries out his orders. If the captain orders an insane hunt for a White Whale, the crew will go to meet their fate in the pursuit.

JUPITERASC
02-12-2013, 06:12 PM
....Let's say we have an old sailing ship. The captain (Mars in Luther's chart) says to hiis first mate, "Mr. Johnson, furl the main-top." Mr. Johnson does not himself climb to the main-top yard and neatly furl the sail. He orders his servants to do it, just as he was ordered by his master. The captain does not mingle with the crew; his position demands that he hold himself apart. But his will is carried out by and through his subordinates. And that is exactly how final disposition works. The ship goes where the captain wills it to go. The crew carries out his orders. If the captain orders an insane hunt for a White Whale, the crew will go to meet their fate in the pursuit.
The idea of illustrating the natal chart as an old sailing ship is a good one.

Another well known example of the depiction of the natal chart as an old sailing ship is the one popularized by Robert Schmidt http://www.projecthindsight.com/ at Project Hindsight, dubbed the 'Nautical Metaphor' commonly used by Hellenistic astrologers in order to describe a natal chart :smile:

(1)

“...The ship itself = the native’s life = predominator.


First and second Trigon (triplicity) lords of the predominator = the winds carrying the ship to its destiny


The third trigon (triplicity) lord = the oars moving the ship

Oikodespotes (Domicile Master) of the chart = ship owner = the one who sets the agenda or destiny for the native under the restriction set by the bound ruler of the pre-dominator

Kurios (Lord of the nativity) = Captain of the ship = Executor = the one responsible for bringing the ship to the destination set by Oikodespotes (Domicile Master)....”


(2)


“...Ascendant sign = “helm” of ship = physical life


Domicile Lord of Ascendant = Helmsman = the First Officer of the ship.

Lot of Fortune = everything that befalls the native though not of his own doing


Domicile Lord of the Lot of Fortune = man on the prow of the ship = Second Officer who is on the look out for the things/events that are going to befall the native

It is important that the Lord of Lot of Fortune be able to communicate with the Domicile Master or Ascendant (Helmsman) or Lord of the nativity (Kurios)...”


IF one planet were to have ALL of those functions THEN that is clearly related to the medieval astrology idea of a FINAL DISPOSITOR :smile:

However it is either

(a) unlikely

or

(b) under rare planetary circumstances that one natal planet would have ALL of those functions

greybeard
02-12-2013, 10:29 PM
OK.
As I said, "Far be it from me to disagree with the great old masters, but when convincing personal experience conflicts with time-honored dogma, I must opt to follow experience."

Domicile lords are often referred to as "dispositors."
Dispose means:
1. To put into a receptive frame of mind for. 2. To condition toward something. 3. To put or set in a particular order, arrangement or position. 4. To put into proper, definitive or final shape; settle. 5. To control the course of events.

What a dispositor does is to impose its own disposition on the disposited. Say Mars in Pisces, Jupiter in Sagittarius. Jupiter disposes Mars; he is his lord. Jupiter, according to the qualities of his own condition, conditions Mars toward whatever it is that Jupiter in inclined toward. With Jupiter in Sagittarius he is independent; he is beholden to no lord.
Suppose that Mars rules Sun, Mercury and Venus in Aries, and these in their turn rule all the other planets. The fourth tier planets are all disposed by Sun and friends. But these folks are disposed by Mars, who is ruled by Jupiter. But Jupiter has no lord; he is free, independent, self-governing, authoritative, responsible, in command. He charts his own course. The person who has a final dispositor (determined the way I just described) embodies these characteristics acccording to the nature of the planet in final disposition.

The word disposition means, in part: One's usual frame of mind; temperament. Acquired or natural organic tendency or inclination. Management, as of business affairs. To deal with or dispose of in any way.

So the final dispositor has a powerful influence on our temperament. He gives us tendencies, inclinations, orientation. He determines the way we meet the world and manage our affairs.

His nature is directly imposed on the subservient planet. His own inclinations strongly influence the ruled planet. The final dispositor has set the stage on which all the other planets must play their parts.

Final disposition, in the sense of my definition, determined according to the chain of domicile rulerships, is a very important and powerful influence in any chart in which it is found. It has the powers described in the dictionary. It has the power to control the course of events. Its power is definitive.

You can easily test these ideas by studying the life of some well-known person with a reasonably accurate birth time, and some planet in the chart holding final disposition. Study the life of the selected person to such a depth as makes possible an accurate abstract portrayal of the person, his personal character and the consequent course of events created by it. Look to the final dispositor in the chart. It will indicate temperament, natural incinations, manner of managing life, and all those other neat powers the word "dispose" carries within it. You now understand "The Power that rules the World of This Person." You have gone straight to the root of the tree.

I characterized Luther as "warrior on a mission to Purify the world." Mars is final dispositor; the man is a Warrior. The sense of mission is found in the singleton pointing of Moon in Aries in the Ninth House, and equally by the very powerful Scorpio stellium in the Fourth House, the foundation of the world. There is an obsession with purification (stellium, sign). From the moment Luther entered the monastery, he imposed a severe ascetic regimen on himself, feeling himself to be impure and unworthy. As he grew in breadth of experience and confidence in himself as a man, his deep-rooted urge to cleanse the impure expanded outward from his center to include the wider world, the Church of Rome. Which was where all the fun began.

JUPITERASC
02-12-2013, 10:51 PM
By definition Fawx:

'....A “dispositor” is a planet which disposits -

aka disposes of
aka rules

- another planet because the other is in one of its areas of dignity

For example, when Jupiter is in Taurus, Venus, the planetary ruler of Taurus, disposits Jupiter.

Planets can also be disposed by the lesser dignities, so the dispositor of Jupiter by exaltation is the Moon which is naturally exalted in Taurus.

The general condition of the dispositor can have some bearing on planetary strength....'

You have stated Fawx, that your Jupiter and Mars are in Mutual Reception and as Frank has commented earlier, if there are any planets in Mutual Reception, then there is no “Final Dispositor” :smile:
Final Dispositors ONLY happen when there is ONE planet placed in its own Domicile.

Mutual Reception by Domicile and multiple planets in their own Domicile negate any chance of having a Final Dispositor.

tsmall
02-13-2013, 01:14 AM
You have stated Fawx, that your Jupiter and Mars are in Mutual Reception and as Frank has commented earlier, if there are any planets in Mutual Reception, then there is no “Final Dispositor” :smile:

In my opinion, the most powerful planet in your chart is Jupiter. The most elevated and your only angular planet.

I would have to agree that Jupiter is the "strongest" planet in that he is the most able to act. If we look at Lily's table to determine fortitude/strength Venus gets one more point than Jupiter because they are both oriental of the Sun.

Skipping that, this is a perfect example of why the sect of the chart is so very important...another discussion perhaps, because I'm curious, Fawx, as to what it is you are looking for in a final dispositor?

Personally, if I were to look for any one planet that will color every aspect of your life it would be Mercury, because he makes a heliacal rise in you chart.

Fawx
02-13-2013, 01:49 AM
I would have to agree that Jupiter is the "strongest" planet in that he is the most able to act. If we look at Lily's table to determine fortitude/strength Venus gets one more point than Jupiter because they are both oriental of the Sun.

Skipping that, this is a perfect example of why the sect of the chart is so very important...another discussion perhaps, because I'm curious, Fawx, as to what it is you are looking for in a final dispositor?

Personally, if I were to look for any one planet that will color every aspect of your life it would be Mercury, because he makes a heliacal rise in you chart.

That is really weird and super awesome of you to comment because I was LITERALLY just reading your post on karma... Odd

Anywho I am trying to learn as much about my chart to direct me career wise

I now realize I do not have a final dipositor but a mr between mars and Jupiter.also that there are varying opinion on if this aspect is even substantial or not.

Reagarding oriental I am super confused because I was told by another astrologer my oriental planet was neptune? And I thought Venus and Juliet were OCCIDENTAL I'm confussed


Also if you don't mind elaborating on your mercury comment and ur sect comment as i was born during late afternoon so i would still qualify as diurnal right?pretty please so I can learn something new

Really glad you checked out my thread

Fawx
02-13-2013, 02:02 AM
To maybe introduce a different viewpoint on this, traditionally there is no such thing as a final dispositor. A planet is only responsible for the planets in his own house, but this doesn't trickle down to determine the effectiveness of other planets throughout the chart. A planet in the sign of another is a planet who goes out to accomplish something in that sign, the condition of its lord and their relationship determines how well that first planet can accomplish that, as the lord of that sign is responsible for supplying the materials based on his condition. This is the Hellenistic principle of counteraction, where a planet whose dispositor is strong benefits from it, whereas a planet whose dispositor is weak suffers in turn.

This isn't something that trickles about the chart because counteraction is a 1:1 consideration about the effectiveness of a planet to accomplish what it seeks through the aid of its lord. That first planet will then be scrutinized in turn to determine how well he will be able to assist planets in his signs.

As an example, let's look at your Moon. She is in Aquarius, the Sign of Saturn, wherein she has no dignity. In order for her to accomplish something, she's going to need help from her dispositor. Luckily she can see him through a Sextile aspect, but unfortunately he has no power to assist her because he also has no dignity and is placed inside of an unfortunate house, so he has nothing to give her and she's mostly on her own. Saturn, though, is in Sagittarius, a Sign of Jupiter, also in a place where he has no dignity (he may have term here, but still), so he's going to need help. Luckily he is able to see Jupiter who is well placed within the Tenth house, but doesn't have essential strength to help Saturn out with, so this is something of a middling influence and is somewhat useful.

The Moon doesn't benefit from Saturn's relationship with Jupiter, because planets can't pass on excess resources from their dispositors.

Basically the idea of final dispositor attempts to combine the two different ideas (ability to perform and quality of assistance), which are different considerations.



In my opinion, the most powerful planet in your chart is Jupiter. The most elevated and your only angular planet.



Yes, the issue with this configuration between Jupiter and Mars is that it isn't really a reception since that requires an aspect. This is a mutual generosity. The best analogy to this I've heard is that reception is being greeted at the door and having a hot meal on the table, whereas generosity is a key under the mat and a frozen dinner and the microwave. They're thinking about one another and doing their best together, but their best isn't very game-changing. This will probably continue to manifest much the same way it has, getting jobs that don't turn into a career.

I am 25 they do not turn into careers as of my choice because it is something I am not interested in or passionate about to dedicate a portion of my life to


My Neptune is also angular in 7th house. Along with Saturn Uranus conjunct the descendant which could also be interpreted as being in the 7th... As it is within the 5 degree orb

tsmall
02-13-2013, 02:22 AM
It's those darn circles and where the Sun is...I apologize for not getting my directions straight. Yes, they are both coming after the Sun. What is important to understand is that you want planets of the nocturnal sect (Venus, Moon, Mars) to rise after the Sun and Diurnal planets (Saturn, Jupiter) to go ahead of him.

My karma thread? You mean the very first post I made, lol? What I have learned of karma is this. Actions have consequences. That is all. Here's the very best example I can come up with. I sew. So let's say that the last time I used the sewing machine, however long ago it was, I left it on. Sewing machines have light bulbs. If you leave them on, the light bulbs will burn out. Now let's say that I left it on and didn't go back to look at it for a long time...six months or so. And then let's further say that tomorrow I have an important meeting, and I need to hem a skirt. Because I sew and have a sewing machine, I wait until late at night to do so, thinking it will only take a moment or two. But, because I left the machine on however long ago the bulb no longer works, and so now I can't hem my skirt. The action that I took (or in this case didn't take) has consequences that reach me in the now and affect my future. In this case it's just a skirt, and I can find a way around it, but if you consider...the action I did (leaving the machine on) in the past now affects my future. It was a small thing then, but the potential consequences now are magnified.

Mercury, and sect. Every chart is either nocturnal or diurnal. How can you tell which? Where is the Sun. If the Sun is anywhere (even minutes) above the horizon then the chart is a day chart. If it is below it is a night chart. There are a couple of threads in the traditional forum that describe sect, but the easy version is that the planets of the sect of the chart will try to work for the native, while the planets of the opposite sect don't always. Diurnal (day) planets are the Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn. Nocturnal planets are Moon, Venus and Mars. Mercury's sect is determined by his position in relation to the Sun. If he is going before then he is diurnal, if after nocturnal.

I study traditional astrology, more specifically leaning towards Hellenistic astrology. Planets that make a phasis (you can look that one up here too) or either rise or set into the beams within seven days of the birth, or planets that station direct or retrograde (also within seven days of the nativity) have something huge to say, and will color the entire life of the native. For more on this you can search this site

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/

which also happens to be where I got most of the technique I use to look for career in a chart.

That is really weird and super awesome of you to comment because I was LITERALLY just reading your post on karma... Odd

Anywho I am trying to learn as much about my chart to direct me career wise

I now realize I do not have a final dipositor but a mr between mars and Jupiter.also that there are varying opinion on if this aspect is even substantial or not.

Reagarding oriental I am super confused because I was told by another astrologer my oriental planet was neptune? And I thought Venus and Juliet were OCCIDENTAL I'm confussed


Also if you don't mind elaborating on your mercury comment and ur sect comment as i was born during late afternoon so i would still qualify as diurnal right?pretty please so I can learn something new

Really glad you checked out my thread

Kaiousei no Senshi
02-13-2013, 04:52 AM
My experience shows that final dispositors strongly influence a life, when they are present iin a chart.

Far be it from me to disagree with the great old masters, but when convincing personal experience conflicts with time-honored dogma, I must opt to follow experience.

An example of "experience" comes from a comparison of the lives and characters of the 16th century religious reformer, Martin Luther, and the indomitable Bruce Lee. Both men have Mars in Scorpio as final dispositor of the horoscope.

Both Lee and Luther had Mars as final dispositor. The essence of both men was "the Warrior."

Having a dignified Mars was a big influence in the lives of these two historical figures. That's not a new concept and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a final dispositor. That's having a dignifed planet in good places, also being choleric doesn't hurt as both of these men were.

I am 25 they do not turn into careers as of my choice because it is something I am not interested in or passionate about to dedicate a portion of my life to

Yes, and that's probably going to be the way of it. Until you decide to settle at least.