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JUPITERASC
11-22-2012, 03:06 PM
Useful to note transits to the Part of Spirit

For Day aka Diurnal births
i.e. After Sunrise and Before Sunset
then
Part of Spirit = Ascendant + Sun – Moon

For Night aka Nocturnal births
i.e. After Sunset and Before Sunrise
then
Part of Spirit = Ascendant + Moon – Sun

There is a Free Arabic Parts Calculator available at http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

Interesting that according to an article at http://www.libracentre.com/arabic.php even with an unknown birth-moment, Arabic Parts may be found :smile:

QUOTE:

“….it is incorrect to assume that these points cannot be utilized when the birth-moment is unknown. On the contrary, a Figure erected with Aries 0° as an Ascendant can be more comprehensively interpreted by the use of most of the Arabian Points than in perhaps any other way. The so-called Solar Equilibrium system is entirely based upon the Arabian concepts. To utilize these Points without a known ascendant degree cast a Figure with Aries 0° as an Ascendant and proceed as follows.....”

Culpeper
11-22-2012, 06:50 PM
In classical astrology the Lot/Part of Spirit is used to make predictions about the native's occupation. It is more specialized than the Lot of Fortune which is used for the general condition. The use of lots was done this way: find the house where the lot is located and then make that house the first. Whole sign houses were used. You can then delineate the new chart with respect to the specialty of the lot: with Spirit, it is the occupation. You can use transits but will need a reasonably accurate ascendant or rectification. I have not found these generalized ascendants to be reliable. The ancient astrologers also used Time Lord systems which do not appear to require an extremely accurate ascendant, but you do have to have something.

fullmoonlibra
11-22-2012, 07:06 PM
On astro.com the part of fortune in my chart is at 29 degrees capricorn in sixth house (square sun, trine venus).
I went to the site noendepress and calculated the part of spirit. Is there something wrong? Cause it was the same degree as the part of fortune.
Are these two the same thing, and what do they represent? Wellbeing?

JUPITERASC
11-22-2012, 07:20 PM
On astro.com the part of fortune in my chart is at 29 degrees capricorn in sixth house (square sun, trine venus).
I went to the site noendepress and calculated the part of spirit. Is there something wrong? Cause it was the same degree as the part of fortune.
Are these two the same thing, and what do they represent? Wellbeing?
Part of Fortune and Part of Spirit are different and represent different significations fullmoonlibra. Did you calculate your natal Part of Fortune at noendpress as well? :smile:

Culpeper
11-22-2012, 07:21 PM
fullmoonlibra:

The position of the Lots depends on the formula used to find them. JUPITERASC gives the formulas for day or night. You may have to calculate them yourself to make sure the computer is giving you the right one. As I wrote in my previous post the Lot of Fortune indicates general well being, but the Lot of Spirit indicates only the native's occupation.

Caro
11-22-2012, 07:24 PM
P.O.S - 26 Scorpio. although I was born 12.30 am I had to use the PM calculation on the link(provided above to calculate it) to calcule this. (POF is in 12th in libra)

I havent really studied it though

fullmoonlibra
11-22-2012, 07:25 PM
Oh, ok, I just calculated the part of fortune too at noendepress.
It says 24 degrees at Pisces.
It falls in my 8th house.
I used PM, cause I was born 2:30 PM

fullmoonlibra
11-22-2012, 07:42 PM
Are parts relevant to work with? There are lots of them! What could change if a planet transits these parts? Are people going to feel better about the house position where the transit at the part happens?

The part that interest me the most is the part of success. Do I have to use Pisces 13 degrees or Capricorn 29 to calculate POF for the formula? I'm a bit confused now.

JUPITERASC
11-22-2012, 10:57 PM
Are parts relevant to work with? There are lots of them! What could change if a planet transits these parts? Are people going to feel better about the house position where the transit at the part happens?

The part that interest me the most is the part of success. Do I have to use Pisces 13 degrees or Capricorn 29 to calculate POF for the formula? I'm a bit confused now.
Ray Austin has written a useful article entitled "The Five Lots of Fate, Success, Your Fortune Chart"

viewable on the Education Board http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13197 Part of Spirit information is included :smile:

dr. farr
11-23-2012, 04:03 AM
"The Arabic Parts in Astrology", by Zoller, is a "must read" for those seriously interested in this subject and its various applications in natal, horary, event and mundane astrology.
When a planet transits (close) the place of any Part, that Part is activated by the transiting planet, and the quality of that planet planet in the natal (or other radical) chart shows the way in which the subject matter of that Part is activated.
...same when a planet progresses (by solar arc, secondary progression, symbolic direction or progression) to the place of the Part.

Transit (or progression/direction) aspects to a Part are accepted by many; however i myself have found that trying to do this leads more to confusion than to clarity-I am SURE of the activation by transit or progression/direction/profection, via CONJUNCTION of planet (or ascendant or MC, etc) with the Part, and so (for me at least) using only conjunctions (usually by 2 degree orb, occasionally-with profection-by platic conjunction by sign) I obtain very clear indications.

Do the Parts themselves transit?? Transit is an astronomically related astrological technique; therefore I join with the opinion of the great majority of authorities regarding this question and agree that Parts DO NOT transit (but they are transited TO and their subject matter is activated by the transiting planet)

Do the Parts themselves progress/direct/profect?? Except in the techniques of primary and secondary progression, symbolic directions (including solar arc) and profection are NOT astronomically conditioned, they are SYMBOLIC: yes, Parts progress/direct/profect if one is delineating and making predictive estimations following the symbolic approach. And, of course, Parts are also directed/progressed/profected TO, using these symbolic methods.

dr. farr
11-23-2012, 04:07 AM
Oh, ok, I just calculated the part of fortune too at noendepress.
It says 24 degrees at Pisces.
It falls in my 8th house.
I used PM, cause I was born 2:30 PM

The calculation (day/night) is incorrect if you used the night formula, because the Sun is still up (calling for the day formula)
Always use the day formula for any Part when the Sun is still above the horizon (above the descendant line in the chart) Only use the night formula when the Sun is no longer visible above the horizon (ie the actual disk of the Sun or any portion of it), and, on a chart, when the Sun is shown below the descendant line.

Caro
11-23-2012, 06:49 PM
I have the mercury transit in scorpio going over the P.O.S current(rx and then turning direct) The recent ecllipse was close by must look at the degree.
then will have saturn transit to the point next year.

POS maybe somewhat clouded by natal neptune very close nearby.24 deg scorpio. as it is about finding your occupation(?) as stated above would conj of natal planets have some effect for good or not so.
which could explain a lot in my case. :sideways:

JUPITERASC
11-23-2012, 07:12 PM
I have the mercury transit in scorpio going over the P.O.S current(rx and then turning direct) The recent ecllipse was close by must look at the degree.
then will have saturn transit to the point next year.

POS maybe somewhat clouded by natal neptune very close nearby.24 deg scorpio. as it is about finding your occupation(?) as stated above would conj of natal planets have some effect for good or not so.
which could explain a lot in my case. :sideways:
The affairs of Mars ruled houses - i.e. those houses with Aries and Scorpio on their cusp - may be affected by any planet transiting a Part of Spirit that is located in Scorpio.

Important to note the sign as well as house location of natal Mars :smile:

fullmoonlibra
11-26-2012, 11:12 AM
The calculation (day/night) is incorrect if you used the night formula, because the Sun is still up (calling for the day formula)
Always use the day formula for any Part when the Sun is still above the horizon (above the descendant line in the chart) Only use the night formula when the Sun is no longer visible above the horizon (ie the actual disk of the Sun or any portion of it), and, on a chart, when the Sun is shown below the descendant line.

I used the PM version to calculate, that's day formula right?

Culpeper
11-26-2012, 06:51 PM
fullmoonlibra:

To help some of your confusion, I calculated your Lot of Fortune at 29 degrees Capricorn and Spirit at 24 degrees Pisces. This is a day chart and am and pm is just for finding the correct time not day and night. Be sure to use the day formula for other lots you calculate for this chart.

Yes, the lots are very relevant if you want to find specific answers to things. Fortune is for things that happen to you and Spirit for things that you choose to do yourself. Your occupation is something you choose to do unless you are a slave. Therefore, it is covered by the Spirit chart. Use the Spirit chart to see if you will be a success at your occupation-- have a career, make money, be happy or miserable at it, have to travel etc.

Remember you must use Pisces as the first house for the Spirit chart. Make a hard copy of the radical chart and turn Pisces to the first position. It is interpreted much like the original but everything should be related to the occupation.

fullmoonlibra
11-26-2012, 07:29 PM
fullmoonlibra:
Remember you must use Pisces as the first house for the Spirit chart. Make a hard copy of the radical chart and turn Pisces to the first position. It is interpreted much like the original but everything should be related to the occupation.

After I took Pisces as ascendant, where to look to have a better idea about the function of it?

JUPITERASC
11-26-2012, 09:12 PM
After I took Pisces as ascendant, where to look to have a better idea about the function of it?
Comprehensive in depth details at "The Five Lots of Fate, Success, Your Fortune Chart" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=13197 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13197) with Part of Spirit information included with Part of Fortune information :smile:

fullmoonlibra
11-27-2012, 12:07 PM
Comprehensive in depth details at "The Five Lots of Fate, Success, Your Fortune Chart" http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=13197 (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13197) with Part of Spirit information included with Part of Fortune information :smile:

Thank you for the link, it really is a good one!
The POS-chart is very interesting actually; I have a remarkable second house, in its own sign (taurus) and with venus in taurus there :happy:.
So I guess, it means that if I start working as a marbling artist and write my novels (POS was about occupation right?), I will have no money problems.

I also think that the 3rd house in dignity, with gemini there and chiron in gemini has something to do with my writing/healing skills.

The moon in seventh house is in it's joy too.
And lucky Sagi at the 10th cusp :joyful:

I think I like this chart even more than my own natal chart :wink:

fullmoonlibra
11-27-2012, 01:36 PM
I guess I shall find luck when I work hard for it and even my identity will be affected:

In POS - chart Sun/NN in first house
In POF-chart Jupiter in first house, ruling the tenth house.
The ruler of my POF in Capricorn, Saturn, is in tenth house with sagi at cusp., in the POF -chart.
The ruler of the POS in the POS-chart, Neptune, is in tenth house, with sagi on cusp. Coincidence?

I have to wait a long time for transits, so I need to make my own luck.

I'm still trying to understand it.

poyi
12-15-2013, 01:33 PM
It is interesting that I again happened to hear a bit more about part of spirit and transit Saturn conjuncts my sun right now and exactly less than 5 degrees approaching my part of spirit. Interesting that part of spirit is used in mediveal of occupation and highest self analysis. My Pos is in Scorpio conjunct both Sun and Mercury in Scorpio in 3rd house. It is cadent house not a great achiever for my own benefit in mundane area but comfortable often have enough. POF is in the 11th house cancer. At the moment I am having progressed Mercury sextile Saturn as well studying a lot.

JUPITERASC
12-15-2013, 01:54 PM
I guess I shall find luck when I work hard for it and even my identity will be affected:

In POS - chart Sun/NN in first house
In POF-chart Jupiter in first house, ruling the tenth house.
The ruler of my POF in Capricorn, Saturn, is in tenth house with sagi at cusp., in the POF -chart.
The ruler of the POS in the POS-chart, Neptune, is in tenth house, with sagi on cusp. Coincidence?

I have to wait a long time for transits, so I need to make my own luck.

I'm still trying to understand it.
Keep in mind that the Moon transits everyone's Part of Spirit AND everyone's Part of Fortune
BY CONJUNCTION
ONCE A MONTH
Interesting exercise to make notes of events at that time

Obviously, the Moon's influence is ephemeral,
a few hours at most on the exact degree

HOWEVER
Moon spends two and half days in the Sign of any Lot or Arabic Part,
interesting therefore to keep track of transiting Moon :smile:

Notice also that MERCURY
transits everyone's Part of Fortune and Part of Spirit
EVERY 88 DAYS BY CONJUNCTION

SUN TRANSITS ARE ONCE A YEAR BY CONJUNCTION

poyi
12-15-2013, 02:11 PM
Saturn Transit is major which is only every 30 years approximately, 2-3 times in a life time. So I am watch to see what is going on.

At the present moment, the most common expression is being serious about studying and learning matters that is relevant to 5th house of Capricorn, transiting in the sign of Scorpio yep occult and astrology matter. It is strange before I even was consciously aware of the motion of transit, I unconsciously made the most out of it. 2 months ago I thought Saturn conjunct Sun will be difficult but not since in natal Saturn not linking to major unhappy houses which my boyfriend always said in my chart it doesn't really cause too much harm and he mentioned the progressed Mercury in Capricorn sextile Saturn is a very good time for learning.

What I am and will learn at this period of time hopeful will become the foundation and structure of the future and most likely to stay as long term memories...as when transit Saturn passing as conjunction to POS, it will also hit natal Mercury and activates the sextile to Mars tine Moon trine Venus loop that will be sharp and long term memories/skills. I hope it will be this way.

JUPITERASC
12-15-2013, 06:13 PM
Saturn Transit is major which is only every 30 years approximately, 2-3 times in a life time. So I am watch to see what is going on.

At the present moment, the most common expression is being serious about studying and learning matters that is relevant to 5th house of Capricorn, transiting in the sign of Scorpio yep occult and astrology matter. It is strange before I even was consciously aware of the motion of transit, I unconsciously made the most out of it. 2 months ago I thought Saturn conjunct Sun will be difficult but not since in natal Saturn not linking to major unhappy houses which my boyfriend always said in my chart it doesn't really cause too much harm and he mentioned the progressed Mercury in Capricorn sextile Saturn is a very good time for learning.

What I am and will learn at this period of time hopeful will become the foundation and structure of the future and most likely to stay as long term memories...as when transit Saturn passing as conjunction to POS, it will also hit natal Mercury and activates the sextile to Mars tine Moon trine Venus loop that will be sharp and long term memories/skills. I hope it will be this way.
Important to consider the whole picture
i.e. Scorpio is the natural home of Mars
So aspects between transiting Mars and transiting Saturn
as well as aspects between transiting Mars and natal Mars
are influential in this case

so consider the natal sign and house location of the sign ruler of natal mars

In fact there is, as is usual, a mix of influences :smile:

poyi
12-15-2013, 08:33 PM
Important to consider the whole picture
i.e. Scorpio is the natural home of Mars
So aspects between transiting Mars and transiting Saturn
as well as aspects between transiting Mars and natal Mars
are influential in this case

so consider the natal sign and house location of the sign ruler of natal mars

In fact there is, as is usual, a mix of influences :smile:

AHHA JA, you are right and I just checked the actual DOUBLE activation already occurred the exact Opportunity from the Transit Saturn Sextile progressed Mercury had already started in the progression the one my boyfriend mentioned of a while back which was precisely when the transit Saturn completed it final hit in my natal Saturn the actual completion of the Saturn return. So in both transit Saturn and Progressed sextile Mercury on the 15th September, the progressed Saturn also CONTINUE forming sextile to progressed Mercury in 56 degrees approaching which later will be perfected in Dec 2016 and stay exact till Dec 2017! :tongue: Got lot of energy/opportunity to study more.

Progressed Mars has been in Libra, Venus in Scorpio in 1st in Placidus or 1st and 2nd house in whole sign. When the exact sextile is finishing Mars in Libra will be at the conjunction with progressed Ascendant while progressed Jupiter in Sagittarius partile Sun in the 3rd house ruler of the 3rd house can call that as Cazimi but then is progression.

12-17-2013, 08:06 AM
Useful to note transits to the Part of Spirit

For Day aka Diurnal births
i.e. After Sunrise and Before Sunset
then
Part of Spirit = Ascendant + Sun – Moon

For Night aka Nocturnal births
i.e. After Sunset and Before Sunrise
then
Part of Spirit = Ascendant + Moon – Sun

There is a Free Arabic Parts Calculator available at http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

Interesting that according to an article at http://www.libracentre.com/arabic.php even with an unknown birth-moment, Arabic Parts may be found :smile:

QUOTE:

“….it is incorrect to assume that these points cannot be utilized when the birth-moment is unknown. On the contrary, a Figure erected with Aries 0° as an Ascendant can be more comprehensively interpreted by the use of most of the Arabian Points than in perhaps any other way. The so-called Solar Equilibrium system is entirely based upon the Arabian concepts. To utilize these Points without a known ascendant degree cast a Figure with Aries 0° as an Ascendant and proceed as follows.....”

If you don't know your rising degree, then there isn't much point in using most (if not all) of the Lots. JA, you always chastise people for bringing modern astrology onto this forum, and unless this thread began in the modern forum (and if so, forgive me), that link you gave belongs elsewhere.

As for Spirit, it can be used to view the native's career but that is a by-product of its signification, not its actual usage. Fortune is Lunar, shows the body and those things which happen to us outside of our control and intention. In line with its Lunar nature, it is completely acted upon by other things hence it being a 'luck' point. Spirit is Solar in nature, and it signifies the things and circumstances we cause to happen with our intentions and actions upon the world (hence it being associated with what we do but that is not always our career). I find it important for delineating mental health issues and addictions and it shows how the person will attempt to impose their will onto their reality and environment and how successful or not they are in doing so. If one has bad luck, then a strong Spirit can show success through the force of one's of will, and the opposite is also true. The above I have extracted from my understanding of Valens.

I believe that these Lots need to be read in a pair, and that what they signify exists outside of the realm of the planets. By that I mean that they show the relationship between the thing that binds us to the Earth and the thing that seeks liberation - one is Fate, the other Free-Will. If Mercury is the rational mind, then Spirit is the observer of the rational mind.

poyi
12-17-2013, 08:11 AM
Interesting information I wonder how should I anlayize my POF in cancer ruled by moon in the 5th while POS conjuncts Sun and mercury?

12-17-2013, 08:41 AM
Interesting information I wonder how should I anlayize my POF in cancer ruled by moon in the 5th while POS conjuncts Sun and mercury?

Well firstly I am working on sign rulerships and exaltations just now, so I don't want to do any public readings at the moment. Secondly, if you were born in the Southern Hemisphere, you may want to rethink who rules what since the Tropical rulerships are clearly seasonal and using the Northern system, you would have Saturn ruling in the Summer and the Luminaries in the winter.

poyi
12-17-2013, 08:47 AM
Thank you for the tips. Luckily I was born in Hong Kong which is just above and not far from the equator so can't be very wrong with the seasonal markings. Southern Hemisphere is a tricky location for most astrology I always wonder and hope more southern born astrologers can work on astrology but then it could be just a direct reversal of the northern rules.

12-17-2013, 08:52 AM
Thank you for the tips. Luckily I was born in Hong Kong which is just above and not far from the equator so can't be very wrong with the seasonal markings. Southern Hemisphere is a tricky location for most astrology I always wonder and hope more southern born astrologers can work on astrology but then it could be just a direct reverse of the northern rules.

Ok, well forget about it then! Your chart would be interesting though if you live in Australia now, as I imagine it would be a mess sorting out profections and revolutions if you relocate. Maybe an argument against relocation?

You're right though, it really is something that needs to be addressed and I often wonder about it. I also wonder what people on the Equator do, but that is probably for another thread.

poyi
12-17-2013, 08:56 AM
I do experience a reversal of luck which I am addressing the Jupiter at IC ruler of 4th living in 4th house and conjunction with south node parallel to a few month planets. It very fortune for me to leave my birth place. Consider the top and bottom of skies flapped...and of course the markers of season is really a big mess. In relocation chart Jupiter is in 2nd house.

theV
12-17-2013, 02:03 PM
My Part of fortune (Ascendant + Moon - Su) is in scorpio is the fourth house I was born during the first quarter moon that why my POF falls in the 4th house,my pof is also parallell my 8th house

My part of spirit in taurus

Cosmicone23
10-11-2015, 08:31 PM
Part of Spirit in Libra conjunction to Spica and Arcturus by less than 1 degree and is conjunct the 10th house cusp by a few minutes. Venus in 2nd house. It is opposite to Jupiter in the 4th house. Looks like I have a special destiny.