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View Full Version : Does Sun at 00 Sag 56 and Mars at 28 Aquarius 17 count as a square in a natal chart?


zona967
11-17-2012, 08:54 PM
The orb is relatively tight but it's an out-of-sign aspect.

What does traditional astrology say about it?

Thank you.

tsmall
11-18-2012, 03:34 AM
I think "what traditional astrology" has to say about it would depend on what traditional astrologer, studying which era of traditional astrology you want to ask.

No matter how you look at it, it is an out of sign aspect yet within three degrees. That is significant and I think most traditional astrologers would consider it to be a square even given that the two are sextile by sign.

The key here to look at is that the aspect is separating. My suggestion would be to investigate this idea--disregard, neglect, or "crossing over."

dr. farr
11-18-2012, 03:39 AM
Theoretics aside, I personally consider out of sign aspects to be effective BUT modified in their "strength" ("weaker", less influential) than the same aspects when IN sign.

crazedrat
11-20-2012, 04:13 AM
It changes with whether you are thinking in terms of houses or signs. Since signs have planetary lords, they are linked with the planets which provide clear boundaries for them, & how they are associated. As far squares are defined by planetary lordship of signs, there is no square in your case.
For house, it depends on what house system you use. With the most ancient house system (whole sign), the houses have the same boundaries as the signs, and the same planetary lords. So there's no square there.

With any of the angle based house systems, the square can be there. It then depends on your relative reference point, the house system you use, etc..

If you define the houses via lagna, you may get different angles than if you switch to defining the 1st house using the moon, or even using another planet.

All these considerations I think should be taken together. It is in some ways square, some ways not.

zona967
11-20-2012, 10:18 AM
As far squares are defined by planetary lordship of signs, there is no square in your case.

Thank you very much for a detailed outline of all the possible cases. I forgot to mention Mars is ruled by Saturn at 10 Sag and the Sun is ruled by Jupiter at 13 Pisces. So there is a square of the rulers as well by sign as well as house albeit it's a separating one (waning influence?)

dr. farr
11-21-2012, 03:33 AM
Yes, I generally consider seperating aspects as indicative of waning influences, either for good or ill....

zona967
11-21-2012, 09:09 AM
Yes, I generally consider seperating aspects as indicative of waning influences, either for good or ill....

If it's a waning influence, how could it be for ill? It's supposed to get weaker and weaker until it disappears, no?

dr. farr
11-22-2012, 03:26 AM
Waning influence of a benefic aspectual influence would, in a way, be at least somewhat "for ill" (in that the benefic influence is waning, passing away)