Did stepfather poison my mother?

Hello all,

This is a thought that has been weighing pretty heavy on my mind for a while.
I realize that nothing can change the fact that my mother is gone. But my intuition is telling me (and ALL of the surrounding details which has led me to ask this question) that my stepfather is somehow involved in my mothers death.

The way I (at the time) asked the question is:
Did XXX(stepfather) poison my mother?
Dec.4, 06
3:27am
36N 115W

I will explain the details which has led me to pose such a question if anyone would like to know why I feel this way...
I would just like to be sure this is an acceptable question to post here before I go into spilling my guts and printing all of the details.

I will try to post a chart (but I have not been able to make it work so far)
But I sure am going to try, (I realize I have a better chance of getting some of you to reply if I post the chart)

I realize the seriousness of such a question, and I also have no way to ever prove anything (my mother was very quickly creamated)

I have tried to go on with my life, but the overwhelming feelings about this just aren't going away.

I'm not sure If I need to "turn the chart" and view it from the 10th house(ruling my mother) and use the 5th(8th from the 10th) ruling her death, or if I need to look at the 9th(her 12 house)

The early degrees of the ASC (ruling me the querent) pretty much tell me it's too late to do anything about it...but turning the chart to the house that rules my mother would give a more usable derived ASC.

Many of you are much more experienced horary astrologers than I am, and I feel as though I may be too close to the matter to give it a good judgement.

Well...here goes, I going to try to post a chart(again)
...If I fail at posting it, I would really appreciate if someone here might help me out with this.

Thank you in advance,
D

I'm so sorry to hear that.
Hope this helps....

You= 1st/Mars
Mom = Sun/10th...Sun separates from TURNED 8th(Death) Modern Ruler Neptune
So chart is radical, dispite early degree.
Early degree...Something hasnt had time to fully be known or progress, vital info is missing here.......

Moons separates from Jupiter(Traditional Turned 8th ruler).

Notice also, the Sun sep. from Sextile Neptune(As in it was and/or easy/peaceful, but Neptune is the natural ruler of drugs/chemicals too.)

What is the claimed cause?

Uranus is conjunct the Turned 8th. (Sudden, unusual)

You're right, a second spouse is the Turned 9th....
But then you and him have the same Planet signifactor!, Mars. Hmm....
Not to pry, but are you sure the first divorce was technically legalized?
Perhaps thats the early degree warning as unreadable??

In that case, stepdad is Turned 7th and would be ruled by Saturn/Uranus.
And you see where Uranus is, it's incriminating.

Plus, Uranus/Neptune in Mutual Reception.
Saturn is in Detriment by being in the Sun's sign.
Chiron conj. Turned 7th cusp, Chiron IS the Marriage symbolizer.

Moons next aspect is to Trine Lilith. Some people don't like using asteroids, but I see she works well in horaries regarding Lies, Deception, Curses because she represents these. Then Moon Opposes the Sun...Perhaps a dream visitation?

Mercury also is You, and you're about to square(conflict) with Saturn.


Sabian Symbols for planets the day you asked.....

Sun = 12-13 deg Sagittarius
A Widow's Past Is Brought To Light

Mars = 28-29 deg Scorpio
An Indian Squaw Pleading To The Chief For The Lives Of Her Children
Pluto= 26-27 deg Capricorn
Pilgrims Climbing The Steep Steps Leading To A Mountain Shrine

Saturn = 25-26 deg Leo
After The Heavy Storm, A Rainbow
Uranus= 10-11 deg Pisces
Men Traveling A Narrow Path, Seeking Illumination

I am very sorry to read about your situation. I'll add my thruppence-worth.

I would read this chart an entirely different way. I would still take the 10th as your mother, and the 7th as your stepfather; it doesn't matter whether he is her first husband or her eighth; he is the person to whom she was married at the time of her death, so he is represented by the 7th.

I would ignore the outer planets, asteroids, and Sabian Symbols entirely, for the time being. You can add them later to fill out the answer. They can clog up the chart if you're not careful, and a clear question won't need extra frills from outer planets. .

The early ascendant doesn't mean it's too late; it may indicate that you don't have all the information available to you, and so any reading of the chart should be done with a hefty dose of caution. I wouldn't worry about a 'derived' ascendant, but you will need to check whether the radix ascendant gives a radical chart via Lord and Hour rulers. The chart may be read without this cohesion, but it's better if they match.

As it is, you don't state *why* you feel suspicious about your stepfather; did he do other things to justify your suspicions, whilst your mother was still alive? Did they have a bad relationship? Did you and he have a bad relationship? Was money a motive, etc. In other words, the more information astrologers have, the more likely it is that they will be able to help with the question. Otherwise, the astrologers will be guessing at the answer almost as much as the querent. I am getting an indication of a sudden death. Is this the case? Was the cause of death known? Also, how long ago did your mother die? These are things we need to know.

Although there are no real 'rules' as to the types of questions one is *allowed* to ask, there is some question about what you would *do* with this information, should you get the answer you seem to be looking for. What could it prove? Would it be enough to turn him in to the police, if the answer *did* come out as 'yes'? What about if the answer is 'no'? These should be serious considerations before embarking on a horary question.

I'm not saying these things to be a smartie-pants; but it is a very good idea to examine the reasons *why* we are asking horary questions, as sometimes they give us answers we are not prepared to hear, and in truth there are some questions that are better left unanswered. You must feel that it will do you and the world (and perhaps your mother) some good to have an answer after this much time has passed.


Best wishes,
AG

Hi DeeBo,

First,let me say I'm really sorry for your loss and that I hope everything turns out alright for you for now on.

Second,I'm far from being a professional astrologer but still,I will have a look at the chart my own way;a more experienced astrologer can tell me where I went wrong.

Turning the chart so the MC(your mom)turns into the1st,I looked at the7th from your mom to spot your stepfather.His significator his Saturn.Saturn is in detriment,but strong by angularity and being also in it's own house.I have the feeling he wasn't exacly the most recomendable type of person,still,he had a strong authority.His significator is in your mom's house,and your mom's significator(the Sun)is peregrine(meaning she was powrless to him),so perhaps he had a strong influence on her,although I think the fact that his significator is in her house shows that he had some sort of interest in her;still,his significator was detrimental so his intentions weren't the best.The turned8th house is ruled by Jupiter,and Jupiter was in it's own sign,making it strong.Jupiter was making a separating square to your stepfather's significator(separating aspects show past events)and,honestly,I think answers the question with a yes.Your mom's signifcator is the2nd house(money and possessions),so perhaps he wanted her money?

In this case,I will look at the Moon's separating aspects to see what hapenned.The Moon was making a separate opposition to the ruler of the8th and a separating square to your stepfather's significator.The thing that puzzles me is that the square to your stepfather's significator hapenned before the opposition to the8th house ruler,Jupiter.Could this mean that they had an argument before her death?I think the separating square to his significator show some type of confrontation that happened before her death.If yes,it may have been what caused him to poison her...if he did.Although,looking at the chart,I think the answer is a yes..

Once again,let me stress that I'm not a professional and I would certainly appreciate it if some more experienced astrologer correct me;I don't want to give you wrong information.But,if the answer really is a yes,I hope life does your mom some justice.

May light guide you through the rest of your life.

All the best
Lissa

My suggestion is that it's probably better to get the full story from the querent first; that 2-degree ascendant is telling us that more information is needed. This is not a question to interpret without having the full story, as a premature interpretation can be very damaging to everyone involved....

My natural birth father died May 11, 1979,
my mother remarried Jan 26 1980,
She passed away May 12 2005,
Her DOB april 4, 1937 staten Island NY between 10pm-midnight
The primary cause of death was Sepsis.

Let me explain what went down..

my mom, who was my best friend in the world (we had a great relationship)
had a knee replacement surgery about a year before she died, which went beautifully.
when she came home from the hospital, she had to go through physical therapy, which to me was comming along fine (I recall having dinner with her about a week or so after she was home...and she insisted on doing the dishes!..so she was obviously recovering) and then my stepfather just up and quit his job. and at the time I thought "well , at least he would be there to help her while she was recovering" but it didn't go that way.
when she needed his help, he got mad about it.
One day while he wasn't home she called me to come over, and when I got there, she looked like she was almost dead.
she said he had got in her face waving his hand gun at her at himself...so I took the gun with me when I left. It seems that besides this when he had made her lunch the day before she became very Ill. She was throwing up very badly, and had very bad diareah(spell?) and at this point, her recovery from the knee surgery stopped progressing. She had thought he might have fed he something that had spoiled, well then not too long after that I was at the house, and opened the refridgerator and I saw a rib eye steak, I said "yum, rid eye's my fav's" and my mom said " yeah, notice he only bought one for him self?" basically, when I couldn't be there..he wasn't feeding her, he never helped her to even bathe.

and looking back at the whole thing...My mom could always eat anything without ever getting indigestion, But when ever he had anything to do with her meals, (maybe not every time) it was very strange she would get very sick . and as a result, she became very weak and could no longer walk at all. which compounded the whole thing. because if I wasn't there, she had to count on him to help her.

" looking back on this is so awfull, It all happened so fast, and I dont think she was telling me everything that was going on with him...if she had my Brother would probably have wanted to kill him"

well, one morning (like 4am) she called me (I was at work) and said she didnt feel right and had called an ambulance to go to the hospital.
I left work right then a caught up to her at the hospital, where she was throwing up blood, they admitted her and did tests on her for over a week before they told her what was wrong.
It seems she had bleeding ulcers, and had developed a blood clot in her lungs. so they couldn't give her blood thinners for the clot, because it would make the ulcers bleed more.

well by this time she was so weak (she had lost so much weight) she just didn't have any strength to fight with.

she never came home from the hospital.

it get's worse...

whenshe was on her death bed, they asked her if she wanted to go home(i'll never forget this moment) with the face of fear and terror she said no! please no.

and it get's worse...

the day my mother died, my stepfather already had a new address in California. My mom wasn't even in the hospital for a month and he had a new address!...obviously before she died.

and it get's worse...

The day after her funeral, I went to her house and all of her things (stuff I grew up with) were in the front yard , they were (my stepdad and his daughter from a previous marriage) have a frikkin' yard sale.
OMG you can't even imagine what I was feeling. I started grabbing everything I could and putting it in my car. and he (step-whatever) wouldn't even come out of the house, and they had changed the locks already to keep me out.

and it gets worse

( I cant even find words to explain all the other things that went with this )

In less than a month The house was sold, It took me a month or so after that to finally track him down. and when I called him he wouldn't even give me the time of day. He said "I've got nothing to say to you" and hungup on me. ( I have this phone conversation recorded )

well, my mom owned 2 houses when she married him, and He didn't have a pot to pi$$ in or a window to throw it out of (boy, he saw her comming)

and my mom had wanted (if in the event of her death, and the house was sold) 25% was to go to me, 25% to my brother, and 50% to him.

This was all done with a notary, and step jerk had signed it.
BUT...because of how they did their mortgage they had joint tennency...there for if one of them died the other one got the house.

I hired a lawyer, but I was only able (after being strung along untill I ran out of money) to get my mothers ashes.

There is so much in the details to explain, and my lawyer did all she could till I was broke.

He seemed to have his end game worked out long before I even knew what was going on.

He basically got away with everything.

This has been the most devastating thing in my life. and I felt like my hands were just tied. I wont even go into the depression I've benn having.

as long winded as this is, I feel like I've barely even explained it to you.

I'll stop at this point (I can give you more details if you would like)

D

Dear Lord,

I can't even tell you how sad I am for hearing your story.

Even if he didn't poison your mom,he should be punished just for treating her(and you)the way he did.

Dear DeeBo,

Thank you for the extra information. It must be very difficult for you.

Notwithstanding the fact that Lilly warns us that Saturn in the 10th indicates that the astrologer "hardly gets credit by that Question", I will give this one a shot, bearing in mind that I am also a student! Also please take into consideration that the early degrees warn us that you, the querent, do not have 'the complete picture'.

I do not see anything in the chart that indicates your stepfather was directly involved in your mother's death, although he doubtless added to her misery in manifold ways. Sometimes that is enough.

Because this chart is complicated by multiple 'users' for each planet, I have chosen to just look at your mother, her health, and her untimely death first. I will look for the other stuff afterward.

Your mother is the Sun, and Saturn rules your mum's health; it is in detriment in Leo, and posited in the turned 1st house. This is a clear indication of weakened health, especially as it is in your mother's sign. Lilly says that illness of Saturn include 'ruptures, especially if in Scorpio or Leo'. This is probably the ulcers. Saturn was stationing retrograde at the time you asked this question, which may signify that the disease was protracted somewhat, or 'got better, then worse'.

Your Mum [Sun] is surrounded by the benefics, Jupiter and Venus. Jupiter is the ruler of the turned 8th of death, and is Under the Beams; but otherwise quite strong in its own sign. Being Under the Beams can mean something secretive, but it can also mean something 'hidden'; because the two benefics are on either side of your Mum, she was 'beseiged' after a manner of speaking. Lilly says of this:

in this manner of judgment observe the Lord of the 8th, if he be therein posited, or what Planet is nearest to the cusp of the house, and hath Dignities therein; for you must take signification of the quality of death from either of these, or from that Planet who afflicts the Lord of the ascendant, and have Dignities in the 8th: If the Planet signifying death is either Venus or Jupiter, you may assure the Querent, he or she shall dye a fair death: and observe what Diseases they or either of them in the Signe they are in doe signifie,

Click to expand...

CA.412

Jupiter rules the lungs, inflammations, and 'diseases arising from Putrification in the blood", and Venus rules "Weakness of Stomack and Liver".

In other words, your mother appears to have died from what was on the death certificate: sepsis. However, Jupiter and Venus give testimony to the fact that your mother's death, while tragic, was due to the natural progression of several health factors. Uranus on the cusp of the turned 8th tells us that death came as a surprise.

The Moon moves to oppose the Sun from the radix 8th: a question of death. But the separating square from the Moon to Saturn (the stepdad) and applying opposition to the Sun (your Mum) denies a relationship between him and your mother's death. I feel if he were involved the aspect would be either a sextile (indicating opportunity) or trine. The applying trine between Saturn and the Sun, which might indicate some stepdad involvement, is impedited by other planets and cannot come to fruition.

So while your stepdad sounds like an absolute *******, I don't think he had a personal hand in it, although he apparently took full advantage of the outcome. I would be very interested in hearing other's opinions, as well.

I can completely understand your feelings of rage and helplessness at this SOB's actions. I would very strongly suggest some grief counseling (or perhaps 'rage counseling' would be better), and find a way to let it go; it will eat up your life otherwise.

Best wishes,
AG

Thank you all so much for helping me with this.

When looking at this chart, the thing that jumps out at me is when looking at my mom's 7th(her husband uranus) and her 8th(her death neptune) they are in mutual reception.
I have always believed this to mean the person signified can get out of what he has gotten into, escape a penalty, at the least there is some mutual connection between the two.
and..
the moon is seperating from an opposition to jupiter(the traditional ruler of pisces, ruler of her 8th) then forming a square to uranus in her 8th(uranus being the ruler of her husband in mutual reception with the ruler of her death)
then..
luna forms an opposition to her ruler the sun.
and
The moon rules her 12th house(which has rulership over poisons)
and
Mercury in her 4th(the4th ruling the end of her matter) is applying square to saturn in her 1st.

Yes I do believe she did in fact die from sepsis, but it sure does look alot like her husband and her death were hand in hand,

and (focusing on how I asked the question...was XXX poisoning my mother?) and all the things involving neptune, uranus,the 7th house, the 8th house...
and the last planet the moon passed over was uranus(ruling her husband, in her 8th....in mutual reception)

I just don't know what to think, I'm trying not to see what I'm seeing, because I still dont really want to believe it.
But something has put the idea that he was poisoning her in my mind, causing me to ask this question, at this point in time.

and Im trying to read this chart in an unbiased way....

but doesn't the chart look like the answer would be yes?
there are more then three things here which would signify the event of the question.

I will add this, the last week of her life she was in a hospice where they made her very comfortable at the end. She did have a peacefull death.
BUT, make no mistake.. the vultures had already been working hard behind the scenes.

I think I'm too close to this matter.
It's just so very hard.

thanks again,
D

Hi

I am getting a NO

your mom is 10th house
her 2nd hubby in question is derived 9th, which is 6th

there is no aspect between sun and mars

as a matter of fact , algole is not aspecting either sun or mars.

saturn being in 10th tells me that you mom was in bad shape *health wise*

Tik

I have moved this to 'Medicine and Health', as this is where it belongs. It isn't a general inquiry.

This is what William lilly has to say on this matter:
Although formerly I have briefly given directions herein, yet now I hold it fit to be more copious, and desire the Learner that he will contract what I write into such a Method as may best please his owne Phansie; and be inabled to make the best use of it for his owne advantage. When therefore you have erected your Figure, consider what Planet is significator of the Disease; and if you so find Saturn to be significator, he produces continued and tedious Sicknesses, quarten Agues, Coughs, comsumptions, &c. If he be in Leo or in Scorpio with South Node or North Node, or Combust, or if Saturn be with violent fixed Starres, he afflicts the sicke party with pestilent and dangerous Feavers, and it may be doubted (where suspicion of Poyson is) that the Sicke has been indeavoured to be Poysoned, or hath taken some potion equivolent to Poyson.