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DreamingTheSeas
07-27-2012, 06:45 AM
The formula for a night chart Asc+Sun-Moon. But i read a while ago that if your Sun is below the horizon then the formula is Asc+Moon-Sun.
As i said my chart is a night one and my Sun is in the 3rd house. Which formula to use?

Spica
07-27-2012, 12:48 PM
Your natal chart is NOCTURNAL.

Fortuna, or the Lot of Fortune, in the case of all nocturnal charts, has to be calculated by the formula you first mentioned, i.e. Asc. + Sun - Moon.

Why? Because Ptolemy got it wrong! He is generally recognised as the earliest reliable author on Western astrology BUT although he was a very great and famous scholar of Western learning in many fields, he was NOT a practising astrologer. He aimed to give the main teachings that the early Greeks (around 5th century B.C.) had learnt from their astrology masters, the Babylonian priests.

The doctine concerning the Lots was quite complicated with only some but certainly not all the lots having both one formula of calculation for Diurnal charts and another for Nocturnal charts. Of the many lots, the Lot of Fortune has both formulas.

Western astrologers did not know about the nocturnal formulas because Ptolemy had taken a scholarly approach in his voluminous writings and as a non-astrologer was probably not aware of the two-formula approach OR more likely, if he knew, he thought it was one of the many variations that swamped practising astrologers of his time.

It was not until Western medieval astrology expert Robert Zoller came along in 1980 and published in clear English for the first time the work of the great medieval astrologer Guido Bonatti concerning his teaching on the use of the Arabic Parts which he had learnt from legendary astrologer al-Biruni.

The Arabic Parts are exactly the same as Ptolemy's Lots, although Ptolemy mentions only a small number compared to those covered by al-Biruni.

The Arabic astrologers had received some their teachings directly from the Bablyonian priests - that is, they had an independent source and so did not have to believe everything that Ptolemy wrote.

You can read up on this vital subject from Zoller's book The lost key to prediction : Arabic Parts in astrology. It was later reissued in 1989 with a different title The Arabic Parts in astrology : a lost key to prediction.

"But i read a while ago that if your Sun is below the horizon then the formula is Asc+Moon-Sun." -- No, what you read is incorrect according to the Arabic traditional practice. It has only been 32 years since Zoller published his classic, ground-breaking work. You must remember that many astrologers have still never heard of Robert Zoller and still stick to the pre-1980 traditional teaching. It is sad that many have still not caught on and many automated services calculate the Part of Fortune only according to Ptolemaic tradition and disregard the nocturnal formula from the Arabic/medieval tradition.

It is so important to understand why we do what we do and how complex astrology really is. I don't think there has been enough dicussion on the Lots/Arabic Parts.

If you read Zoller's work, you will discover that that the Nocturnal formula for the Lot of Fortune is in fact according to the Arabs the diurnal formula for the Part of Spirit.

However, there should be no confusion for those with diurnal charts as the Arabic diurnal formula of the Lot of Fortune remains exactly as Ptolemy gave it!

Hope this alleviates any confusion for those with nocturnal charts.

Spica

DreamingTheSeas
07-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Thank you very much Spica.