PDA

View Full Version : So what happens when two planets in their detriment/fall trine each other?


Element
06-14-2012, 10:04 AM
I was wondering if anyone can enlighten me on how detriment/fall work. More specifically, I'm about to have P moon in Scorpio (which is also my ascendant) trine N Saturn in Cancer. Both the moon and Saturn are poorly placed but I was wondering how this would affect things. Does this mean that the benefits of the trine will be weakened? Will I see some positive effects at least?

miquar
06-14-2012, 08:23 PM
Hi Element. Saturn in Cancer suggests that it is important to you to feel emotionally involved with others, but that fear of rejection prevents you from opening up to others. Ultimately Saturn in Cancer can be emotionally involved with others without being dependent upon them in any way, but first the fear must be acknowledged, and the effort made to work through the obstacles of mistrust. With your progressed Moon in Scorpio at the moment, it is perhaps a good time to try to open up on feeling level. This trine could reflect a time of understanding more deeply all of these issues.

But as always the chart as a whole (and in this case perhaps particularly the balance of elements in the chart) must be taken into account.

JUPITERASC
06-14-2012, 09:44 PM
I was wondering if anyone can enlighten me on how detriment/fall work. More specifically, I'm about to have P moon in Scorpio (which is also my ascendant) trine N Saturn in Cancer. Both the moon and Saturn are poorly placed but I was wondering how this would affect things. Does this mean that the benefits of the trine will be weakened? Will I see some positive effects at least?
The moon may benefit from this aspect because Saturn is located in the sign of her domicile rulership :smile:

However, the only dignity Saturn has in Scorpio is in the last three degrees which are its own terms.

tautomer
06-14-2012, 10:17 PM
I'm sure it adds a different twist to things. Nevertheless, I don't think the sole fact that it is in it's fall and or detriment is going change the aspect all that much. A good aspect will strengthen the planets some if they are in a bad placement.

As an example, my moon is in scorpio, and my mars is in cancer. Thus, both are in their fall. They trine each other. This adds a bit more emotional resilience to my already weak mars (it's badly afflicted), and allows my moon to outlet my pains and stresses through physical actions (although that has taken me quite a number of years to figure out).

The more I think about it, the less I think that having two planets that are in their detriment or fall aspect each other effect things much.

JUPITERASC
06-14-2012, 11:28 PM
Both the moon and Saturn are poorly placed but I was wondering how this would affect things. Does this mean that the benefits of the trine will be weakened? Will I see some positive effects at least?

fwiw - Traditionally, planets in detriment/fall are regarded as “being in a precarious condition”, so although your Tropical Scorpio Moon and Tropical Cancer Saturn are in trine they are both in a precarious condition. IMO the two planets are in helpful aspect but lack the resources to actually provide much assistance :smile:

Kaiousei no Senshi
06-15-2012, 02:53 AM
Also, to be technical, it's a modern idea that trines are always beneficial. Traditionally they only easily facilitate the viewing of one planet to another. That can be for good or bad.

dr. farr
06-15-2012, 04:49 AM
The above post also reflects the outlook of Vedic astrology: the condition of the planets involved-NOT the type of aspect-they believe is what makes a + or - influence.
Our Western astrology allocation of + or - influences based on the type (kind) of ASPECT, dates to the writings of Firmicus Maternus in the early 4th century AD...

Element
06-15-2012, 09:03 PM
Thanks for the responses from everyone. This has helped quite a bit.

@JUPITERASC: Your interpretation makes more sense than you may realize. I'm going to add to it a bit and state that I may need to find those resources elsewhere? If I were able to accomplish this then possibly the trine could be more fortuitous?

@dr. farr: While I think vedic astrology can be very enlightening, I think it would be a mistake to discount the actual alignment. If, for example, you have Sun in Cancer square Jupiter in Aries the two planets would be in mutual reception. But a square is still a square. Although the two planets have the "resources" to deal with the conflict, there is still conflict nonetheless. Unless I've misunderstood how this works.

dr. farr
06-16-2012, 03:57 AM
Yes, you have expressed the understanding of Western astrology regarding the "essence" of the geometrical relationships ("aspects") between planets (and other points in the chart) I largely follow this understanding as well, however I am having more and more of a respect for the Vedic position that the geometrical relationship is only secondary to the actual condition of the planets in aspect, in making an influence...nonetheless, you will almost always find me delineating a square or an opposition, as a difficult/hard relationship yielding difficult influences...

JUPITERASC
06-16-2012, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the responses from everyone. This has helped quite a bit.

@JUPITERASC: Your interpretation makes more sense than you may realize. I'm going to add to it a bit and state that I may need to find those resources elsewhere? If I were able to accomplish this then possibly the trine could be more fortuitous?
I'm no expert Element, however what you say is an interesting idea - IMO if your natal chart has any planets potentially offering/providing support to Scorpio Moon AS WELL AS Cancer Saturn then those aspects require analysis to establish their exact nature as to whether they may be helpful or not to the trine you have described:smile:

Nevertheless, it is important that we have been reminded:
Also, to be technical, it's a modern idea that trines are always beneficial. Traditionally they only easily facilitate the viewing of one planet to another. That can be for good or bad.

Element
06-17-2012, 12:42 AM
I'm no expert Element, however what you say is an interesting idea - IMO if your natal chart has any planets potentially offering/providing support to Scorpio Moon AS WELL AS Cancer Saturn then those aspects require analysis to establish their exact nature as to whether they may be helpful or not to the trine you have described:smile:

Nevertheless, it is important that we have been reminded:

Well I was referring to my solar return chart. Aside from the progressed detrimented trine I mentioned, in my sr chart for the year my moon is heavily aspected. SR Saturn in Libra trines my N moon in Gemini and my SR moon in Aquarius trines them both. So I have a grand air trine in the SR chart for the year. SR moon in Aquarius also trines natal Uranus in Libra and natal Mercury in Gemini.

JUPITERASC
06-17-2012, 12:53 AM
Well I was referring to my solar return chart.
Whether the chart is solar return or natal the following nevertheless applies :smile:
Also, to be technical, it's a modern idea that trines are always beneficial. Traditionally they only easily facilitate the viewing of one planet to another. That can be for good or bad.

Claire19
06-17-2012, 07:56 AM
I was wondering if anyone can enlighten me on how detriment/fall work. More specifically, I'm about to have P moon in Scorpio (which is also my ascendant) trine N Saturn in Cancer. Both the moon and Saturn are poorly placed but I was wondering how this would affect things. Does this mean that the benefits of the trine will be weakened? Will I see some positive effects at least?
I dont really use the terms detriment and fall, they are misleading. It is the aspects that count. If you have a contact with your natal Moon to Saturn then the transit will have more effect. As it is water element, your emotions will be more intense, depending on where the aspects are. It can mean domestic issues will be to the fore as well as relationship as a mother or to your mother but family in general. YOu need to always display your chart for any accurate comment. Anonymise it, if you wish.

Kaiousei no Senshi
06-17-2012, 09:49 AM
As an example, my moon is in scorpio, and my mars is in cancer. Thus, both are in their fall. They trine each other. This adds a bit more emotional resilience to my already weak mars (it's badly afflicted), and allows my moon to outlet my pains and stresses through physical actions (although that has taken me quite a number of years to figure out).

To be fair, that configuration of Mars in Cancer Trine Moon in Scorpio is a strong mutual reception by domicile. My only concern with it would be if you were born during the day since Mars dominates that trine.

Well I was referring to my solar return chart. Aside from the progressed detrimented trine I mentioned, in my sr chart for the year my moon is heavily aspected. SR Saturn in Libra trines my N moon in Gemini and my SR moon in Aquarius trines them both. So I have a grand air trine in the SR chart for the year. SR moon in Aquarius also trines natal Uranus in Libra and natal Mercury in Gemini.

I think you're overloading yourself by trying to combine multiple techniques in ways they really aren't meant to be combined. It's easier to just focus on one thing at a time until you really sink your teeth into it. The Solar Return is probably the best to start with, since it will give you a more general feel for the year and identify possible difficulties or assistance throughout the year that you can then explore in a more detailed manner with profections, progressions, fidaria, ZR, or whatever your pet timing technique is.

The technique of interpreting aspects is much more complicated in the tradition than people realize, and it really has to be broken down into a few steps to get the most out of it. Who is applying to whom? What's the receptions? Is it a dexter or sinister aspect? Who is dominating it? What house does this take place in? What houses do the planets involved rule?

Though, I must say, asking what happens when two essentially debilitated planets trine one another makes me think of two people stuck in a canoo with no oars. They can't really do much for one another, but at least they have each other. A more negative image would be something like Saturn in Cancer trying to use the Moon in Scorpio as a life raft. :)