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Omnisphericus
04-29-2012, 07:30 PM
I've decided to open another thread where I can present the Hellenistic Method of delineating marriage.
I feel the need to have a separate section where the methods of Dorotheus, Valens and etc, will be presented.
I will start with Dorotheus and then with Valens. As in other threads, I will try to give practical examples on the matter.

Dototheus in his second book 'Carmen Astrologicum' advices us to look the following when delineating marriage.

"Look at Venus where it is, and which are the first, second and third lords of its triplicity as, if they are with Venus, or in a cardine or trine to it (Venus) than this is a good indication because Venus is full for the matter of marriage.
If you find the lords of the triplicity of Venus with it, or in the cardines or what follows after the cardines, rejoicing in their light and direct (in their) motion, all of this is a good indication in the matter of marriage so that the father of the child was happy. But if you find the lords of the triplicity of Venus in a bad place or a cadent, corrupted, or they are under the rays of the Sun or near the West, than predict differently from that about the badness of marriage because those who are born will be of those who will never marry or whose marriage is with slave girls or whores or old women who are disgraced or those young in years, or he is a leaser of whores; we have seen someone (in a nativity) like this who leased his wife, and he was disgraced in this. If you find the lords of the triplicity of Venus in a bad place, but Venus is with a benefic planet and (they are both) beneficial in one house then he will marry an agreeable wife. But when the lords of the triplicity of Venus come in between (Venus and the benefic), they indicate disaster and disgrace because of women and anxiety and grief because of them".

So, Dorotheus is telling us to look at the Lords of Triplicity of Venus, if they are in the same sign with Venus or in Trine with it then this is good indication.
Also, if they are in angular or succedent Signs this is also good indication.
If they are in succedent houses, it is good if they are direct in motion and their light is not corrupted from the Sun's beams.
But if you find the lords of triplicity of Venus in a bad sign (presumably 6, 8 and 12?!) or cadent, near the West or USB, then this is a bad indicator.

Here's the chart of the Emperor of Japan Akihito.
I have in my computer a folder named "Happy Marriages". I suppose I picked up his chart from astrodatabank under the same category of happy marriages.
How much happy really the marriage is, only he and his spouse knows that. But the fact is that in the publicity they leave their impression as a happy couple.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ynflfr.png

We can see that Venus is in Aquarius.
Triplicity Lords are:
Mercury/Saturn/Jupiter.
Look the Whole Signs even though the chart is calculated in Alcabitius.
Venus falls in cadent sign but look all the Lords of Triplicity.
Mercury is in the 1st sign. Saturn is WITH Venus and Jupiter is on MC.
Two of them are Cardine and one is with Venus.
Dorotheus was right!

http://i48.tinypic.com/2il0uad.png
Lets now look at the chart of his wife: Princess Michiko.
We find Venus in 12th in Libra.
But look at its Lords:
Saturn in 4th/ Mercury on AC, Jupiter in 1st sign.
Well, Jupiter and Venus are combust or at least USB (Though Jupiter in another sign, but yet..).
Again Dorotheuses testimony is right.

Lets now look at a chart of a person who never get married.
This is the chart of the Oprah Whinfrey's lover. They never get married.
http://i50.tinypic.com/33n9eh1.png

We can see that Venus is in the 6th sign (bad place).
Jupiter is in 5th but under the Sun's beams.
Sun is in 5th.
Saturn is in 12th and Retrograde.

Not so good placements as the previous two?!

With 3 examples only Dorotheus is right on the spot!
We will discuss more in the following posts.

Omnisphericus
04-29-2012, 07:34 PM
I apologize for the wide pictures. They are cut like that long before I learned that for some of you it is hard to see (because of the screen resolution).
I will try to compress them later.

byjove
04-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Hello Omnisphericus,

yet another very detailed and wonderful contribution...I spent much of earlier going through your other recent work. Thank you!

Did Dorotheus give any information about alleviating or mitigating influences on this matter? The criteria given I think is few and for now I'm a goner! Also, I wouldn't want to make hasty judgements in other's cases if I see something similar. Perhaps aspects to the 7th ruler of the triplicity rulers or other dignities can help? p.s. if anyone else just read Dorotheus on marriage in their own chart and emitted a Cluedo scream, there's some useful reading here, http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49297 .

Omnisphericus
04-29-2012, 11:45 PM
Hello Omnisphericus,

yet another very detailed and wonderful contribution...I spent much of earlier going through your other recent work. Thank you!

Did Dorotheus give any information about alleviating or mitigating influences on this matter? The criteria given I think is few and for now I'm a goner! Also, I wouldn't want to make hasty judgements in other's cases if I see something similar. Perhaps aspects to the 7th ruler of the triplicity rulers or other dignities can help? p.s. if anyone else just read Dorotheus on marriage in their own chart and emitted a Cluedo scream, there's some useful reading here, http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49297 .

Hi,
Of course, there are no definite rules in these subjects. One must always take all the indicators. The definite judgement will be upon the Astrologer's experience. It is not an easy thing to predict these kind of subjects, and experience in Astrology practice is what is needed here, that's for sure.

preeshuu
04-30-2012, 04:53 AM
Hi ,

so placement of Venus is very imp to be looked in for the matter like marriage ?

I've decided to open another thread where I can present the Hellenistic Method of delineating marriage.
I feel the need to have a separate section where the methods of Dorotheus, Valens and etc, will be presented.
I will start with Dorotheus and then with Valens. As in other threads, I will try to give practical examples on the matter.

Dototheus in his second book 'Carmen Astrologicum' advices us to look the following when delineating marriage.



So, Dorotheus is telling us to look at the Lords of Triplicity of Venus, if they are in the same sign with Venus or in Trine with it then this is good indication.
Also, if they are in angular or succedent Signs this is also good indication.
If they are in succedent houses, it is good if they are direct in motion and their light is not corrupted from the Sun's beams.
But if you find the lords of triplicity of Venus in a bad sign (presumably 6, 8 and 12?!) or cadent, near the West or USB, then this is a bad indicator.

Here's the chart of the Emperor of Japan Akihito.
I have in my computer a folder named "Happy Marriages". I suppose I picked up his chart from astrodatabank under the same category of happy marriages.
How much happy really the marriage is, only he and his spouse knows that. But the fact is that in the publicity they leave their impression as a happy couple.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ynflfr.png

We can see that Venus is in Aquarius.
Triplicity Lords are:
Mercury/Saturn/Jupiter.
Look the Whole Signs even though the chart is calculated in Alcabitius.
Venus falls in cadent sign but look all the Lords of Triplicity.
Mercury is in the 1st sign. Saturn is WITH Venus and Jupiter is on MC.
Two of them are Cardine and one is with Venus.
Dorotheus was right!

http://i48.tinypic.com/2il0uad.png
Lets now look at the chart of his wife: Princess Michiko.
We find Venus in 12th in Libra.
But look at its Lords:
Saturn in 4th/ Mercury on AC, Jupiter in 1st sign.
Well, Jupiter and Venus are combust or at least USB (Though Jupiter in another sign, but yet..).
Again Dorotheuses testimony is right.

Lets now look at a chart of a person who never get married.
This is the chart of the Oprah Whinfrey's lover. They never get married.
http://i50.tinypic.com/33n9eh1.png

We can see that Venus is in the 6th sign (bad place).
Jupiter is in 5th but under the Sun's beams.
Sun is in 5th.
Saturn is in 12th and Retrograde.

Not so good placements as the previous two?!

With 3 examples only Dorotheus is right on the spot!
We will discuss more in the following posts.

Omnisphericus
04-30-2012, 05:18 AM
Hi ,

so placement of Venus is very imp to be looked in for the matter like marriage ?

Yes, because Venus is Universal Significator of Marriage, Relationships and Relations of all sorts.

Omnisphericus
04-30-2012, 05:28 AM
I forgot to mention, look at the first chart, that of the Emperor Akihito.
We remember that Dorotheus said that having Lords of Triplicity of Venus in Trine of it is a good indicator.
In Emperor Akihito's chart Jupiter is Trine to Venus and Saturn - the other Triplicity Lord.

Look at the Princess's chart, Saturn is in Trine to it while he and the other 2 Lords are angular.

Now look at the third - less happy - chart, that of the Oprah's boyfriend, you can see the both Triplicity Rulers in Aversion to it and the third in Opposition and Retrograde and cadent.

Omnisphericus
04-30-2012, 06:01 AM
- Dorotheus explains next that having Venus in good place and Jupiter with it gives an agreeable wife.

- If Saturn is Lord of 7th Sign and itself is cadent (while Malefics are aspecting the 7th), than the injuries (in relation to marriage) is because of the fathers and mature man or because of the dead.
If the Lord is Jupiter, than he will attain these things (bad things) because of the kings or wealthy men.
If it is Mercury, than injury comes because of an arguments and talk.
If Mars is Lord than indicates marriage which is shameful and disgraceful.
If Mercury is with Mars then he will kill his wife with his own hands and her blood will stick to him. If it is with Venus than the bride's dowry is damaged and she will be furious with him like the burning of fire because of women, and the marriage will be with this thing..

I was searching to find an example for the particular example of a man who killed his wife and this is what I've found. The chart is not exactly as Dorotheus describes when saying that when Mars and Mercury are together in the above example, they produce man who kills his wife with his own hands.
But the chart shows some very similar elements.
This is the chart of a man who killed his wife, his kids and then shot himself.

http://i49.tinypic.com/o9le6x.png

We can see that Mars is ruler of the 7th and it is Cadent!
Mars and Saturn are seeing the 7th.
Mars is not with Mercury but Venus and Sun (the exaltation ruler of 7th and its Almuten!).

In spite of this, it is interesting to look at the chart from a different perspective.
We can immediately see that Opposition of Saturn and Mars.
Saturn is ruler of 4th (Home) and 5th (Children) and its exaltation ruler and Almuten of 1st (actions of the native).
This Saturn makes Opposition to Mars - ruler of 7th and 2nd and having honor in 4th (again Home).
Two Malefics are having honor in Home.
They are in Opposition. One of them - the one who is Out of Sect Malefic - is Retrograde in 9th.
We would say he don't make contact with Jupiter, Sun, Venus and Mercury, but thats not true.
Saturn is in Antiscia (to the degree!) with Jupiter in 10th (Antiscia is called "Hidden Conjunction"). Jupiter disposes Mars in 3rd but Juptier is Retrograde it can't help much. It rules also the 6th (bad things) and having honor in 10th (destiny and public).
Saturn makes contra-antiscion (hidden opposition?!) to all the planets in Capricorn (by Sign).
We can say in summarize:
"There would be troubles (incident) in Home, Family (4th), involved the Wife (7th) and Children (5th). This incident will be made public (through Jupiter), the native and his wife (Mars) will suffer because of this (Saturn almuten of 1st)."

JUPITERASC
04-30-2012, 06:40 AM
Interesting as well that Part of Fortune is in 5th in Aquarius and dispositor is Retrograde Saturn in 8th

also Moon in 12th - domicile Ruler of 10th, is in applying square with both Mars in 2nd & Saturn in 8th who are as you have said, opposed :smile:

SunConjunctUranus
02-16-2019, 10:52 PM
I feel the need to have a separate section where the methods of Dorotheus, Valens and etc, will be presented.

Valens' techinque strictly in the using of triplicity. He is using more VII house/sign, using their own "lot", and separating marriage bringer between female and male nativities.

JUPITERASC
02-17-2019, 05:05 AM
Valens' techinque strictly in the using of triplicity.
He is using more VII house/sign, using their own "lot",
and separating marriage bringer between female and male nativities.

Following quote is from Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part IV - Nativities :smile:
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121677

Introduction to Hellenistic Astrology Part IV - Nativities

6. On Affairs
The topic of affairs is to be examined from the Lot of Affairs, the VII and Venus.
When they and the domicile rulers happen to be with changeable, double-bodied and passionate images
and also ascending from Mars, they cause many affairs.
Benefics cause good marriages.
Saturn and Mars when unfavorably placed indicate divorces
and they make widowers with incomplete images.

Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Schmidt, R. Hephaistio of Thebes Apotelesmatics Book II. Project Hindsight.
Sidonius, D., & Pingree, D. (1976). Carmen astrologicum. Pingree (Hrsg.), Dorothei Sidonii Carmen Astrologicum, Leipzig.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from
https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf